[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This whole story stinks. So Lester just 'stumbled' across this letter now, coincidentally at just the same time as Janner is all over the news for alleged child-abuse?

What makes it even more sickening is the fact that he's trying to take the moral high-ground by saying that Janner is implying MJ's guilt, when the only person doing that is Lester himself by making sure the two are linked now in the public consciousness! Pathetic.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Mark Lester lost all credibility the moment he claimed he's Paris' father. I wouldn't ask him what time is it. He would have joined Wade if he were 30 years younger.
 
It just doesn't change much, accuser's selling their story to the highest bidder. Janet Arvizo and her husband, Jay Jackson, did just that and got in trouble for it.

A contract for $20,000 between two British tabloid reporters and the mother and stepfather of Michael Jackson's accuser has surfaced.

The reporters, Alec Byrne and David Gardner, had recently thought they would be called as defense witnesses in the Jackson child molestation case and were all set to bring in this vital document.

When the accuser's mother, Janet Arvizo, testified for the prosecution, she told the jury she "wasn't the kind of person" to sell her story — but apparently she was indeed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2005/05/25/*****-accuser-mom-had-20k-deal-for-story.html
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

HE NEVER RECOVERED????!!!!!!! PPFTT WHAT BOUT MJ! :ranting:

Michael lost his soul throughout that trial even though he was vindicated he was never the same as he was before- it destroyed him .


I agree with you Michael was never the same.:(
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ugh lester sit your arse down you chump
 
From Twitter today: (regarding the 'Greville Janner letter' story)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Thomson retweeted

Taj Jackson ‏@tajjackson3 · Jun 14

Taj Jackson retweeted (name removed by me)⭐️
Expect more smear tactics as I fight them behind the scenes. They need to be held accountable for their lies.


Taj Jackson added,

original sender (name removed by me)
.@MirrorPolitics @DailyMirror Michael Jackson met this man ONCE for 30 minutes at the the most. What a pathetic,desperate attempt at a story
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The mirror will reprint any old trash. and lester has a bill to pay why taj thinks its because of his pcc claim that lester or the mirror has done this. well sorry taj u really aint that important.it aint all about u
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Mark Lester lost all credibility the moment he claimed he's Paris' father. I wouldn't ask him what time is it. He would have joined Wade if he were 30 years younger.
Most truthful, accurate post. I was thinking about this-if you're a man and Michael's age, you fathered his children or he stole your original songs or you had an affair with him. If you're someone who worked with him or for him, he screwed you in your contracts. If you're a woman, you not only had an affair with him, he fathered all your kids. If you're young enough to be his child, you're either his secret kid or were molested by him. ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. And all due to jealousy and greed.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Most truthful, accurate post. I was thinking about this-if you're a man and Michael's age, you fathered his children or he stole your original songs or you had an affair with him. If you're someone who worked with him or for him, he screwed you in your contracts. If you're a woman, you not only had an affair with him, he fathered all your kids. If you're young enough to be his child, you're either his secret kid or were molested by him. ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. And all due to jealousy and greed.

That's precisely it. They're all stooping to the lowest of the lows they possibly can, they're all back stabbers - within their own reach. I think what Mark Lester does is the lowest he can get, just like what Wade does is the lowest he can get and we could compare them to other people who had different relationships with Michael, like producers who try to diminish his genius and doctors who take advantage of their "Doctor" title reliability and sell their lies to tabloids. They're all the same for me though Wade is currently the worst, because of the nature of his false allegations.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^yes, they're all despicable but Wade and Jimmy are the worse now, bc of the heinousness of the crime.
Just as in 93, there was a LOT of crap, and had been for years, but Chandler was the last straw.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

post of the year. well said

Most truthful, accurate post. I was thinking about this-if you're a man and Michael's age, you fathered his children or he stole your original songs or you had an affair with him. If you're someone who worked with him or for him, he screwed you in your contracts. If you're a woman, you not only had an affair with him, he fathered all your kids. If you're young enough to be his child, you're either his secret kid or were molested by him. ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. And all due to jealousy and greed.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Most truthful, accurate post. I was thinking about this-if you're a man and Michael's age, you fathered his children or he stole your original songs or you had an affair with him. If you're someone who worked with him or for him, he screwed you in your contracts. If you're a woman, you not only had an affair with him, he fathered all your kids. If you're young enough to be his child, you're either his secret kid or were molested by him. ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. And all due to jealousy and greed.

I agree also this is the post of the year yes well said.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

For the Robson civil case, Robson has filed his opposition to Estate's demurrer. Some portions - mainly names - are redacted. Unfortunately I don't have the time to do a summary right away. Perhaps Respect77 can summarize it for us and decode the redacted names as Respect is very knowledgeable about previous allegations and testimonies. (Note: If you do a summary I would like to share it on my blog with a credit given to you if it's okay)

here's the link to the Robson's opposition to the demurrer : http://www.scribd.com/doc/269099527/Robson-Opposition-to-Demurrer

In addition to the Robson's opposition, the recent documents also show that Estate has served 3 subpoenas to the doctors related to this case. 2 of the doctors are the doctors who have treated Robson and the third doctor was retained by Robson's counsel to meet and interview with him and write the certificate of merit (required for plaintiffs over age 26 at the time of filing the claim). It looks like what Estate is asking includes : entire file for Robson, billing records for Robson, date of every appointment, any medical records and notes, all communication between the doctors and Robson/Robson lawyers and anything in the possession of the doctor related to MJ.

Robson lawyers has filed a motion to quash one of the subpoenas - the one served to the doctor that was hired by Robson's lawyers and provided the certificate of merit. They state they would use that doctor as an expert witness and expert witness depositions/testimonies are only exchanged before a trial.

Robson lawyers asked Estate lawyers to withdraw their subpoena but Estate refused saying "we will not withdraw the subpoena. The court expressly relied on Dr. [redacted] testimony when it found in camera that there was a 'reasonable and meritorious cause for the filing of this action'. We do not understand how our clients do not have a right to understand the opinions expressed by Dr. [redacted] and relied upon by the court, and cross examine Dr. [redacted] on those opinions."

Hearing for this is set for July 13.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thanks Ivy. So here is the summary.

First of all reminder that Robson basically has to allege things which bring his claim under Civil Procedure Code 340.1(b)

(2) This subdivision does not apply if the person or entity knew
or had reason to know, or was otherwise on notice, of any unlawful
sexual conduct by an employee, volunteer, representative, or agent,
and failed to take reasonable steps, and to implement reasonable
safeguards, to avoid acts of unlawful sexual conduct in the future by
that person, including, but not limited to, preventing or avoiding
placement of that person in a function or environment in which
contact with children is an inherent part of that function or
environment. For purposes of this subdivision, providing or requiring
counseling is not sufficient, in and of itself, to constitute a
reasonable step or reasonable safeguard.

The Estate said in their demurrer that Robson has not met any of those requirements in his Third Amended Complaint. Now Robson argues that he did and that the Estate simply chose to ignore their allagetions in their Demurrer. First Robson reminds the Court that they do not need to prove the credibility of anything they claim at this point and that he needs to view his complaint as favourably to the Plaintiff as possible:

2lwokls.jpg


He claims they alleged that the companies knew or had a reason to know about MJ's alleged abuse because of the following:

zwbw1v.jpg


effofc.jpg


The first name redacted is Mark Quindoy. He is the one who claimed those things. I remember the second story but I don't remember who claimed this. Does anyone remember? I think the third point is about Norma Staikos, possibly the fourth too? I don't know, the first is surely Quindoy.

Robson claims MJ was the president/owner and a representative/agent of the companies, thus fulfilling the second requirement. He also claims the companies did have "some" control over MJ - for example they cite an occasion where (presumably Staikos) allegedly fired someone against MJ's wishes:

2wog7sx.jpg


105zkab.jpg



So will now Joy Robson too change her story and claim things like she was restricted from seeing Wade by MJ's companies and "prohibited from sleeping in the main house"? Why did not she tell this then on the stand in 2005? And how will she explain her changing story?

Then Robson goes on to dispute the Estate's claim that the alleged abuse did not arise as an "inherent part" of the relationship between MJ and the companies since the claim is that the alleged abuse began before Robson and his mother were even employed by the companies. Robson argues:

2le54si.jpg



jharlx.jpg


Some nerve they have! So now the fact that Robson's mother seeked out Norma Staikos and MJJ Productions to contact MJ, is somehow the companies arranging a meeting between MJ and Robson and facilitating abuse! Crazy!

Robson further argues that the consequences of the Aaronoff precedent case do not apply here, because in that case the relationship between the Plaintiff and the Defendant that preceded the company's involvement was a parental relathionship and somehow, at least according to Robson's argument, that is supposed to be different than if it was any other type of relationship.

szid6x.jpg



The main argument seems to be that Staikos supposedly had control over MJ:

r8t636.jpg


Then Robson argues that - on contrary with what the Estate claims in their demurrer - they did not admit that MJ was the sole shareholder of the companies:

dffsco.jpg


2d0782.jpg


I guess it will be easy to show through factual documents whether MJ was or was not the sole shareholder of his companies. But I guess the problem for the Estate is that they are not allowed to submit evidence for that at this stage? That would be for the summary judgement stage, I guess.

Robson further points out that the requirement is only that the third party has "some" control over the Defendant or the relationship.

Robson also argues that the Estate is wrong when saying that in the precedent case Doe vs. City of Los Angeles more specific allegations of knowledge of abuse were not sufficient to pass demurrer. Robson argues that his allegations are actually a lot more specific.

9bawkp.jpg


So they claim that Staikos was "almost certainly" aware of MJ being a child molester before 1990.

They also claim that MJ's own knowledge of his alleged abuse is enough in itself.

2s78kqs.jpg


Then they address the Estate's claim that Robson did not sufficiently claim a "duty of care" and "special relationship". They argue that they do not need to meet this requirement in (a)(2) and (3) of 340.1 if they already met (b)(2).
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's so lame they always emphasize they don't have to be credible at this point, it's like saying they won't be able to establish it and they only say things so they can move on to the next level
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Hopefully this is the last complaint or opposition from Wade's case that I have to read. I seen enough bs to last lifetime.

It's so lame they always emphasize they don't have to be credible at this point, it's like saying they won't be able to establish it and they only say things so they can move on to the next level

I know, that pissed me off, like they are saying we are throwing everything out there, but we don't have to prove it.
It is a good thing that law protects the victims, but there are too many crooks that are using this law for bs.
 
Last edited:
My notes to this:

Re. Quindoy. Quindoy first started to claim this after 1993. He never before claimed those things. So just because in the hindsight of the Chandler allegations he started to claim things going back to 1990 it does not mean the the Companies as companies knew or had a reason to know about the things he alleged in the hindsight. Did he report any of those alleged incidents to anyone at the time? Not at all. He first came up with those claims after the Chandler case and while trying to sell the story to tabloids for money.

I think the story about security guards being "instructed not to stop Jackson's car at the ranch gate (as they had in the past) when Jackson arrived with a young boy" containst two names. 1) Staikos who allegedly gave this instruction, and 2) some female security guard that made this claim about MJ allegedly smuggling in young boys that way.

I was just re-reading William van Valin's book. This is what he wrote about entry protocolls to Neverland:

Michael’s house was not visible from the gatehouse, where it was a requirement to stop and sign in before you were allowed to go any further into the Ranch. There was a specific form you had to sign saying that you would behave yourself at all times as befitted a guest and that you would absolutely never take any pictures while on the Ranch. As such, all cameras and cell phones that had the capability of taking pictures had to be left there and were to be picked back up on the way out.

However as later they became familiar with the guards they did not have to stop any more:

By this time, having been to the Ranch so frequently, we were usually waved on through rather than stopping to sign in. This visit was no exception and upon arrival we parked out in front of the house.

So I have a hard time to understand how it is some shady business if the guards are instructed not to stop Michael - the owner of the ranch. And the whole story with some boy supposedly hiding from the guard between the seats is just so ridiculous. Again, once they are trying to tell us that MJ was hiding these boys, but then we see him walking around with them hand-in-hand in plain sight, talk about sharing bed with them on national TV etc. So if he was so open about being with kids in public why would he hide some boy from some guard? Does not make any sense.

I wonder who the guard is who claimed this. The only female guard I remember is Charli Michaels but I don't see this story in the prosecution's motion from 2005 where they attempted to introduce these testimonies. Since these stories always changed, doesn't mean she did not claim this at some other point or to some tabloid. (Charli Michael's first made her claims when she went on Hard Copy to sell a story and then she joing the Neverland 5 in their lawsuits, so she's another shady, disgruntled ex-employee.)

But from a strictly legal POV: again, how does Staikos insturcting the guards not to stop MJ's car at the gate constitutes of knowlede of sexual abuse?

Similarly claims of Staikos arranging meetings between MJ and children and their families - how does this mean she knew about alleged sexual abuse?

Like I said the main argument seems to be that Staikos allegedly fired employees against MJ's wishes and that means acc. to Robson that she had at least some control.

MJ was very non-confrontational and thus often (or rather always) when someone was fired he did it through someone else. And (I guess to avoid confrontation) he sometimes blamed it on someone else and told those people that it was not his wish to fire them. But being the owner and president of his company I am pretty sure Norma Staikos could not have fired anyone if it was REALLY against MJ's wishes. So what should Staikos have done in this situation acc. to Robson? Fire him and his mother against MJ's wishes? I would have loved to see that in practice! Surely both MJ AND Robson's mother would have protested against that and Staikos would have been the one who would end up being fired at the end.

Also that Staikos "had the authority to set security protocol with respect to Jackson's visitors to the ranch" does not mean she had the right to tell MJ who to invite to his room or what to do. Nor does it mean she had knowledge about what was allegedly going on in MJ's bedroom.

"Robson was lured into Jackson's world through Jackson's relationship with Defendants".

LOL. So it wasn't his mother who deliberately seeked out MJ through MJJ Productions when they had a vacation in the US?

"(Staikos) arranged a meeting between Jackson and Robson in February 1990, which was immediately followed by Robson's first visit to Neverland Ranch, when Jackson's first acts of abuse of Robson occured."

It's amazing how they repeatedly leave out the fact about who contacted whom: it was Robson's mother, Joy Robson, who seeked out MJJ Productions and Staikos to contact MJ. The document does not make any mention of it at all! They try to make it look like it was the other way around.

And like I said above this is an interesting turn of events regarding Joy's story:

esng5i.jpg


So not only Wade, but Joy too will change her story now? What is her excuse of supposedly not telling "the truth" under oath in 2005 then?

And regarding the visas again leaving out the fact that it was Robsons mother who repeatedly bugged MJ's companies for those green cards and visas.

While MJ used his companies to arrange certain things for the Robsons, to claim that the relationship between them was due to the companies and the business environment rather than some friendship outside of the companies, is ridiculous. It was Joy Robson who seeked out MJ when they vacationed in the US, not the other way around.

I think they are throwing everything but the kitchen sink which MAY be enough to pass demurrer (due the Estate not being able to present evidence to the contrary at this stage), but they will have big problems at least at the summary judgement stage.
 
Last edited:
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Hearing for this is set for July 13.

So it means it's been rescheduled from June 30 to July 13?
 
Joy Robson's testimony from 2005:

7 Q. And how did you end up visiting Neverland?

8 A. When we were here, we called around, trying

9 to find Michael again. He had told us if we

10 returned to the United States to contact him. So we

11 called around, and we eventually were put onto his

12 personal assistant, which at that time was Norma

13 Stakos, and they called Michael.

14 He remembered us, and said he would like to

15 see us again. So we met him at a recording studio

16 where he was working at the time.

So because they contacted MJ through Norma Staikos (who was both MJ's PA and in some position at MJJP) this means MJ's companies were facilitating Robson's alleged abuse? :doh:



9 Q. Now, when you came here in September, you

10 also went to work for MJJ Productions, correct?

11 A. No.

12 Q. You -- let’s see if I get this right. You

13 had a job in a -- cosmetics?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And because you were here on a certain kind

16 of visa, they couldn’t pay you; is that correct?

17 A. They did pay me, but they paid me through

18 Michael Jackson’s company.

19 Q. So your checks were from MJJ Productions?

20 A. Well, that makes it sound like MJJ

21 Productions was paying me. They were not.

22 Q. I just -- the question was, the checks came

23 from MJJ Productions?

24 A. They were diverted through Michael Jackson’s

25 company.

26 Q. In other words, your company would pay them

27 the money, and then Mr. Jackson’s company would pay

28 you the money? 9251

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Just in all fairness. I’m not trying to

3 trick you.

4 A. Okay.

5 Q. And that arrangement was worked out with the

6 approval and the help of Mr. Jackson, correct?

7 A. I think so. I’m -- I mean, I didn’t speak

8 to him about it. I spoke to Norma Stakos about it.

9 Q. Do you recall telling and testifying to the

10 fact that what actually happened in September of

11 1991 is that Mr. Jackson was your sponsor when you

12 came to the United States with your son?

13 A. Not initially. We were here for six months

14 and then he offered, he offered to sponsor after we

15 arrived.

So it seems the reason of MJJP's involvement in Joy's employment was strictly technical to circumvent some visa issues. The cosmetics company that employed her was actually the one which paid her money. They just did so through MJ's company due to some visa issue.
 
Last edited:
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Leaving aside that fact that the whole case is spurious, I don't see (from the point of view of these arguments alone) how Joy is in any different position to Staikos, if allegedly being paid by MJJ productions / ventures (?) from 1993-1998, being aware of the 1993 allegations and providing 'unfettered access' to Robson.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So it means it's been rescheduled from June 30 to July 13?

No.

June 30 - hearing for demurrer

July 13 - hearing for motion to quash the one subpoena
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Leaving aside that fact that the whole case is spurious, I don't see (from the point of view of these arguments alone) how Joy is in any different position to Staikos, if allegedly being paid by MJJ productions / ventures (?) from 1993-1998, being aware of the 1993 allegations and providing 'unfettered access' to Robson.

I wonder if that's really a valid point, I mean if Joy is also "guilty" does it clean the companies name in the eyes of law? It's Wade's choice not to sue his mother after all. The question is - can Joy's involvement make Wade lose the case?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

esoyah.jpg

70e06c.jpg



So to me it seems like they argue that through Staikos the companies had "significant control over Jackson" and the burden of proof is on the Estate to prove she did not, but that can be only be done via discovery - ie. at the summary judgement phase for example by presenting some document or other evidence about chain of command at the companies etc. For now the Judge has to accept their claim that Staikos had control over MJ. At least that is their argument.

I'm going back a little bit to the precedent cases that the Estate cited in their demurrer:

[5] Although plaintiffs are focused on the words "knew," "reason to know," and "otherwise on notice" in the statute, it bears emphasizing that these words must, of course, be read in the context of the provision as a whole. Thus, the subject of which the nonperpetrator defendant must have had knowledge or notice is, the statute clearly tells us, the perpetrator's unlawful sexual conduct as that term is defined in the statute to encompass particular prohibited sexual acts with a minor. As we shall demonstrate, it is the failure of plaintiffs to allege that either the City or the BSA had knowledge or notice that Kalish had engaged in past unlawful sexual conduct that dooms their complaint. Bearing this in mind, we turn to the knowledge and notice language.



So did Robson make allegations to fulfill this requirement? I don't see that.

That Quindoy and some female security guard claimed in the hindsight of the Chandler allegations that they allegedly had seen things - how does that establish a knowledge or "reason to know" or being "otherwise on notice" on the part of the Companies when none of those employees made any reports to anyone about what they allegedly saw at the time? They only came out with these claims to the tabloid media in the wake of the Chandler allegations when they attempted to make money by selling such stories.

Norma Staikos arranging meetings between MJ and children, including Robson: how does that establish any knowledge, reason to know etc. by the companies (or even Staikos) that MJ engaged in past unlawful sexual conduct?

There are some vauge remarks made about someone (Staikos?) stating "she first heard of Jackson's reputation regarding children soon after she started working at MJJ Productions". What reputation? That MJ hang out with children or what? This is incredibly vague. And there is a claim about someone (Staikos? - going by the Estate's previous demurrer I think this was the statement they were referring to there) allegedly telling someone "that she should never leave her son alone with Jackson". Again why, when in what context this was allegedly said? Vague. "...and also told Ms...... that "that kid (Jackson) better be glad I understand his problem". Again incredibly vauge stuff. What is this even supposed to mean at all? And most importantly how does this establish any knowledge of past sexual abuse by even Staikos, let alone the companies? At most she was speculating which does not constitute a knowledge, a reason to know or being otherwise on notice as that Doe vs. City of Los Angeles precedent case states.

To me none of the claims Robson makes here actually establishes knowledge, reason to know, otherwise on notice of past unlawful sexual conduct by MJ even on Staikos' part, let alone the Companies'.

The only thing that may work for them is when the 1993 Chandler allegations went public. But then those allegations were common knowledge. Joy Robson knew about the allegation, this wasn't a case of a company hiding past allegations of child abuse from her. The precedent case says:

Furthermore, we agree with plaintiffs that the doctrine of less particularity may be especially appropriate in this setting. The legislative history of Senate Bill No. 1779 demonstrates the Legislature was particularly sensitive to cases of childhood sexual abuse in which the nonperpetrator defendant concealed from victims of that abuse its knowledge of the perpetrator's past acts of unlawful sexual conduct. "[C]laims of some victims were delayed because the employer withheld information from victims or lied to victims so the employers' negligence and wrongful conduct would not be discovered. This is a key distinction and policy justification for holding these wrongdoing employers liable past the victim's 26th birthday. In these cases, the evidence is not lost because the perpetrator of the abuse could not be found or his memories faded. Instead, the evidence is in the possession of the wrongdoing employer or third party, who knew or had reason to know of complaints of sexual misconduct against the employee or agent but failed to take reasonable [42 Cal.4th 551] steps to avoid future unlawful acts by that employee or agent." (Assem. Com. on Judiciary, Rep. on Sen. Bill No. 1779, as amended June 6, 2002, p. 9.)

Then at one point Robson even tries to argue that MJ's own alleged knowledge of his alleged sexual abuse constitutes a knowledge by the Companies. Which sounds BS to me and on contrary to what was stated in the precedent case.

But even if the Judge accepts that through the Chandler 1993 allegations or for any other reason the companies had a reason to know, what the heck could have those companies (or Staikos or anyone) done that neither MJ AND Robson's mother wanted them to have done? Robson clings on the word "some" in the requirement for "some control" and he claims that things like Staikos being able to fire people supposedly against MJ's wishes means that she had control over MJ and his relationship with Robson. She did not. She was employed, hired or fired by MJ, not the other way around. And she could not have fired Robson and his mother if neither MJ OR Robson's mother would have agreed to it. What power did Staikos have over that situation? I cannot see what the heck MJ's companies should have and could have done in that situation and to me Robson still has not established that. I cannot see how a company can be held responsible for a situation that is not really under its control.

And BTW, the things that Robson omits from his complaint are at least as interesting as the things he includes.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I wonder if that's really a valid point, I mean if Joy is also "guilty" does it clean the companies name in the eyes of law? It's Wade's choice not to sue his mother after all. The question is - can Joy's involvement make Wade lose the case?

The question is whether there was anything the companies could have done against the wishes of BOTH MJ (the companies owner and president, who was the boss of Staikos, not the other way around) and Joy Robson (the boy's mother) and the boy himself? I cannot see what they could have done under those circumstances when Joy was fully supportive of MJ and when Wade himself said nothing ever happened and when MJ himself denied the allegations. Let's say the 1993 Chandler allegations are a "reason to know". OK, Joy Robson knew about those allegations. They weren't hidden from her. Wade Robson knew about those allegations. They weren't hidden from him. Wade denied that anything happened to him. In fact, he and his mother went on TV to support MJ and continued to support him until 2012. So what the heck these companies were supposed to do? Does anyone have any idea about that because I still cannot see that? I cannot see how these companies would have had a power or right to separate MJ and Robson - and that against the wishes of both MJ (the company big boss, no less!) and the Robsons! And for what reason when both MJ and Robson deny the allegations? And before the Chandler case: should Staikos have gone up to Joy and claim to her that MJ was a child molester? Or fired them so that Wade would not be near MJ? Based on what exactly? Based on some innuendo? For her to do that would have been slander and she would not have only risked being fired but also being sued.

I think Joy is a big problem for them and that's why they hardly even mention her in these papers and if they do only in neutral context as some kind of passive participant. No mention of her very active role in them contacting MJ and coming to the US. They try to blame all that on the companies. Therefore to show that it weren't companies who were pushing for that I think is one thing that the Estate can show during summary judgement phase if it gets there.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thanks respect, reading your post I think you are right and it can actually legally hurt their case because the two big authorities denied anything has ever happened, Michael - the head of his companies, and Joy, the mother and the legal guardian of Wade. Who else can make decisions for her own son? Anyway, the Joy subject is not a big issue at this current stage, right? They're still on the estoppel laws, aren't they?

I wonder where the Estate's lawyers are going with Wade's doctors meeting records :D this should be good.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Anyway, the Joy subject is not a big issue at this current stage, right? They're still on the estoppel laws, aren't they?

They are on the demurrer. Estoppel does not play a role here, that was probate court. Here the law at play is CCP 340.1.
Joy's role was not addressed so far by the Estate but I guess if it goes through to summary judgement then it would become a big issue. I imagine they would probably even depose her then.

I wonder where the Estate's lawyers are going with Wade's doctors meeting records :D this should be good.

Yeah, I wonder what's the purpose of them asking for Robson's medical papers. Not that I would not like to see them too. :p
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yeah, I wonder what's the purpose of them asking for Robson's medical papers. Not that I would not like to see them too. :p

I think it can't hurt... MJ's side:shifty:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

vgoiz8.jpg



"Robson has alleged facts demonstrating that Defendants almost certainly had actual knowledge of Jackson's abuse through (Staikos?), and "reason to know" as defined by the court in City of Los Angeles."

And where did he allege those "facts" because he sure not did allege any such "facts" here. All he alleged was some vague innuendo supposedly by Staikos, not actual knowledge of sexual abuse. :smilerolleyes:

And if the redacted name is Quindoy: Quindoy's alleged knowledge is =/= Defendants' knowledge when Quindoy did not report what he allegedly saw to the Defendants or anyone.

In the precedent case City of Los Angeles the claims are about police officers being "aware of [perpetrator's] pedophilic tendencies" among others. And even this was not enough (the demurrer in the precedent case was sustained)! So how would Norma Staikos allegedly telling someone not to leave her son alone with MJ or Norma Staikos allegedly saying about MJ that "that kid (MJ) better be glad I understand his problem" would or should be enough? How? These are much more vague statements than police officers actually being aware of someone's pedophilic tendencies.

Robson tries to argue that his allegations are "more compelling" because in the precedent case (unlike here where he names apparently Staikos) the police officers were not named and their positions within the organization were not specified. But with that he simply misstates why the demurrer was sustained in that precedent case. It was not because the police officers were not named or their positions were not specified. It was because the things alleged (police officer's being aware of defendant's pedophilic tendencies etc.) were not sufficient to establish "knowledge", "reason to know" or "otherwise on notice". And in this case we have even less sufficient allegations. Only innuendo, not someone's actual knowledge or awereness of MJ being a pedophile.
 
Back
Top