[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Using Bianca's testimony from '05? Someone who runs to the tabloids and can't keep her story straight when she's cross examined. This is just getting pathetic. I mean how desperate do they have to be if they have to resort to using her. I don't know how much longer this is going to drag on, but their wasting courts time with this farce.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I remember her testimony, It's one of those testimonies I like to read because of the defense work, she was really slammed by the defense and IMO she was one of the weakest witnesses of the prosecution, but then again they were all weak.

I kinda wish the 2005 trial was recorded (not televised) so they could show how Wade denied the whole thing and how Francia and any other prosecution witness was grilled by the defense. Too bad it wasn't.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think there are some fake versions of these blogs out there, though, but I don't know if they're still up. You can tell pretty quickly what the fake ones are because they claim to be "vindicating MJ" but are actually painting him as guilty. I remember one of them had a disgusting banner that was clearly insulting his appearance.

Of course, here they are:
FAKE vindicatemj blogs!

How to Recognize and Refute the Fallacies Used By Michael Jackson Haters, Part 1 of 5

The Blog Wars

Ok, anybody can read the articles..., I am really stunned.

To me... its like discovering a new world of the backstage and background of the media propaganda, all of a sudden there are tens of articles I have never been interested in or known about them.
Its like a net of info getting a new perspective, and Im sure that any non-fan would realize the undisputed connections.

Like these:
Stacy Brown chatting with Wade Robson Allys - 2013!

October 2013 - Tony Safechuck on twitter

Ron ZONEN and Star Arvizo - 2011

Ron Zonen + Diane Dimond + Stacy Brown - 2011

And the fake story about FBI Files, obviously a base for Browns article and Wades accusations - 2013

and still... some of the fans, or many people have DOUBTS?
Yeah, ... doubts about the players in the neverending filthy games!

 

[HIStory]

I'd like to see Blanca Francia's earlier depositions as well and compare them to her testimony. Because that prosecution motion that requested the introduction of her testimony wrote the following about that alleged shower scene:

“Ms. Francia also found Jackson and young Robson taking a shower together. As Jackson’s personal maid, Ms. Francia, had access to Jackson’s bedroom at any time. She was aware Jackson had installed an alarm bell in the outside hallway which would ring inside the bedroom as someone approached the bedroom’s entrance. On this particular day she went to the bedroom. She knocked on the door and received no response, so she entered the bedroom. She heard the shower running and was aware Jackson had a habit of leaving the water running.

As she approached the bathroom, she realized Jackson had not heard the alarm and she saw Jackson and young Robson nude together in the shower and Jackson was rubbing against Wade’s body. The shower was steaming so she could not see everything, but she could see Wade’s head pressed against Jackson’s stomach area. Jackson’s and Wade’s underwear were on the floor next to the shower. She immediately left and was uncertain if Jackson even saw her enter the bathroom.”

This is actually a different story to what she presented on the stand.

Here she goes to the bathroom because she thinks MJ left the water running. In her testimony she claim she went there because she heard voices of laughing and playing.

Here there is a detailed description about MJ and Robson being nude in the shower and MJ "rubbing against Wade’s body" and "Wade’s head pressed against Jackson’s stomach area". I wonder where does this come from, because the version presented on the stand was much milder. There were no claims about MJ and Robson being nude (she did not claim to see through the fog that much to see that), there were no claims about MJ "rubbing against Wade's body" or "Wade's head pushed against MJ's stomach area". Instead we have this:

Q. Okay. You only saw one person in the shower, right?
A. I saw him in the shower and the little kid.
Q. But in your deposition you said you could only see one person, but you heard giggling, right?
A. Yeah, but I hear two people –
Q. You heard two people. You could only see one through the glass, right?A. Mostly, yeah. Mostly. [1]
[…]
Q. Do you remember in the deposition saying you never saw anyone else in the shower but Mr. Jackson?
A. I don’t think I say that.
Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show you the transcript?
A. Okay.
[…]
Q. Have you had a chance to look at that page of the deposition?
A. Yes.
Q. Does it refresh your memory about what you said about the shower?
A. Yeah.
Q. You saw one person, Mr. Jackson, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Or it looked like him through the glass, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the only voice you really heard was Mr. Jackson, correct?
A. No.
Q. That wasn’t correct?
A. I hear two — two. [1]
​

Although Francia still insisted she heard two voices, in her 1993-94 depositions at one point she admitted she actually heard only one.

Q. Do you remember you were asked in your deposition, “Did you hear anything else other than Michael laughing?” And you said, “No”?
A. Yeah.
Q. Was that the truth?
A. Yes. [1]
​

Even prosecutor Ron Zonen, who did her direct examination, had to ask her about the fact that in her 1993-94 depositions she admitted that she did not see Robson in the shower. In 2005 her explanation for that contradiction was that “Well, at that time I guess I was tired and nervous, I guess”.

So where do all those claims about Wade pressing his head towards MJ's stomach etc. come from? Did she give some deposition earlier in which she said those things? Or did the prosecution simply make that up? I hope the Estate will look into each and every version of her depositions and interviews and compare them.

And of course, we also have to consider that she came up with these stories when Hard Copy paid her money for them.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

IMO it does not matter what the maid said. The big issue for Roberson is him denying it. Which like respect said is missing from there paperwork

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I guess he just wasn't aware/didn't realize what a shower was.

LOL, I'm totally stealing this

BTW April 21 hearing date is confirmed.

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Maybe they've got a copy of VG's book or every tabloid story she ever gave. Estate lawyers must be shaking their heads in disbelief that they've tried this.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

perhaps "Ivi" stand for me? michaeljacksonallegations.com is not my site, it's respect77's site.

yes, I thought it was you, I incorrectly wrote your nick - ivi/ivy, but I saw somewhere the nickname ivi/ivy, so sorry.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

At this point I don't know how this is even relevant. I mean yeah it may become relevant if the case goes forward but this is now about statutes of limitations.

I know that this is not a demurrer, but summary judgement where you can already present evidence and counter-evidence to prove or disprove certain points made by the other side, but I'd imagine that the focus here in this situation is still on whether Robson is within statutes of limitations or not. So I am not sure why Francia is relevant from that aspect.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think in the RO files Wade's lawyers acknowledge she didn't actually see Wade but a "small figure".

Ron ZONEN and Gavin Arvizo - 2011

and still... some of the fans, or many people have DOUBTS?
Yeah, ... doubts about the players in the neverending filthy games!

Not that it changes anything but I think it's Star.

It's really alarming that they're all such good friends. Very unusual and weird. The accuser and his family, the prosecutors and the tabloid people.

 

[HIStory]

I think in the RO files Wade's lawyers acknowledge she didn't actually see Wade but a "small figure".

In her 1993-94 depositions she actually admitted that she did not see anyone but MJ. Not "small figure" or anything:

Q. Do you remember in the deposition saying you never saw anyone else in the shower but Mr. Jackson?
A. I don’t think I say that.
Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show you the transcript?
A. Okay.
[…]
Q. Have you had a chance to look at that page of the deposition?
A. Yes.
Q. Does it refresh your memory about what you said about the shower?
A. Yeah.
Q. You saw one person, Mr. Jackson, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Or it looked like him through the glass, right?
A. Yes.

Even Zonen had to ask her about this contradiction to which she just said she said that in 1993-94 because she was "tired and nervous". And that she "believed" that Robson was there, she did not see him.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Id like to ask (some of you "researchers") about any possibilities being/gettng in touch with Mj estate or the defense team and let them know or help them with these facts and research.
I have always wondered if MJ fans like some of you could cooperate with MJs defense team (Mesereau and now the Estate).

If I were one of the defense team, I definitely would consider such option/help.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think in the RO files Wade's lawyers acknowledge she didn't actually see Wade but a "small figure".



Not that it changes anything but I think it's Star.

It's really alarming that they're all such good friends. Very unusual and weird. The accuser and his family, the prosecutors and the tabloid people.

Something like this?
Its time to UPGRADE THE SCHEME of the players in the game.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

In her 1993-94 depositions she actually admitted that she did not see anyone but MJ. Not "small figure" or anything:



Even Zonen had to ask her about this contradiction to which she just said she said that in 1993-94 because she was "tired and nervous". And that she "believed" that Robson was there, she did not see him.

Seriously she's like a cartoon character

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Id like to ask (some of you "researchers") about any possibilities being/gettng in touch with Mj estate or the defense team and let them know or help them with these facts and research.
I have always wondered if MJ fans like some of you could cooperate with MJs defense team (Mesereau and now the Estate).

If I were one of the defense team, I definitely would consider such option/help.

I used to send them some info through the Online Team, but we just do not see where that info is going, unfortunately as there is no real two-way communication. Hopefully it is forwarded to the Estate.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The claims about the glass shower door being obscured by steam seem strange to me.

Michael famously had his rooms overheated. I can't imagine he would shower in a cold bathroom. The safe water showering temperature for a child is about 52 degrees. Serious burns can occur at 60 degrees. I can't believe that steam would be produced or would obscure glass if the room was warm. Perhaps Wade forgot he was badly scalded....

I would love to carry out a 'temperature / shower steam' experiment in MJ's Neverland bathroom!!

 

[HIStory]

^ Good point. And there are other details that are strange to me. I'm just trying to imagine the situation.

First there is the contradiction between the prosecution's motion and Francia's testimony about whether Francia went up there because she believed MJ left the water running or it was because she heard voices of playing and laughing. And why would she go up there just because she hears voices of laughing and playing? Why would that in itself be suspicious while she does not see anything yet when she hears those voices? For all she knew MJ and Robson could have been just having a water ballon fight in the bathroom or something.

Second, MJ had that alarm system, supposedly to alarm him whenever someone approached while he was molesting boys, yet it conveniently did not work with Francia, just as conveniently as when Star allegedly witnessed Gavin's molestation. Of course they need to address that in the prosecution motion:

She was aware Jackson had installed an alarm bell in the outside hallway which would ring inside the bedroom as someone approached the bedroom’s entrance.

As she approached the bathroom, she realized Jackson had not heard the alarm

In her testimony she claimed that the water was running and the radio was on. So how did she hear all those voices of laughing and playing which according to her story prompted her to go to check out the situation? Michael did not hear the alarm bell, but she heard the laughing and playing? And if the radio was on how could she hear all those voices of laughing and playing from downstairs as she entered the room?

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

IMO he's speaking from a place of bitterness. I don't know what's going on but he seems to go out of his way to take shots at Branca and Wetzimen. And frankly it's not a good look for him. He's entitled to his opinion but there has not been an ounce of proof that their would be a settlement. In fact the estate is fighting them back with facts and matters of law not bullish and running to the press. IMO again Tom is upset for some unknown reasons

I think TMezz wants to take Weitzman's position in the case, I notices some challenging digs at the Branca and Weitzman. He might be in need for some high profile case because his and Ms Yu legal practice is dissolved.
Over all, that interview left me with bad impression of him


On the different note, I honestly find it funny that Blanca Francia's so called "testimony" is all they got. It's like they had to dip in the trash can to find remotely something to support their case, and to be honest, bringing in Francia's testimony is just that, rubbish.
All the estate attorney's needs to do is to dig out her previous so called "testimonies" and present them to judge. I would think if he sees her previous testimonies, he would see through the bs.
Anyways, wasn't Wade's side supposed to show some supporting cases or evidence that get his case around statue of limitations that allows him to file late claim etc?

This whole case is bonkers if you ask me. Wade starts the case lying and he needs more lies to cover up his lies:scratch: He had depressed/suppressed/compressed memories, then he didn't and remembers everything, then he brings in the testimony from Francia who says seeing him in shower with MJ, but then again, he himself denied that.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I was wondering few days ago if the fact they asked for Blanca Francia's testimony means she didn't agree to cooperate with them, what do you guys think?

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

May be she was afraid to give another contradictory declaration under penalty of perjury.

 

[HIStory]

And let's not forget about Blanca's unsavoury connections.

Victor Gutierrez and Blanca

During her testimony in 2005, Blanca Francia also admitted that in 1993, besides Hard Copy, she contemplated selling her story to the National Enquirer. One of the reporters who used to work for the Enquirer, Jim Mitteager had a habit of taping his conversations. When he died his tapes were inherited by private investigator and tabloid broker, Paul Barresi. The Mitteager tapes reportedly include a conversation in which it is claimed that in 1993, Enquirer reporter, Lydia Encinas befriended Blanca Francia and at the time allegedly helped transcribe Francia’s police interview. On the Mitteager tapes, Enquirer editor, David Perel tells Mitteager on March 23, 1994, that: “the reason why Lydia Encinas is involved is because she speaks Spanish and she’s got a good relationship with Blanca.” [5]

In April 2005, journalist, Michelle Caruso claimed to have questioned detective Russ Birchim, who interviewed Francia in 1993, about Encinas’ involvement. “Lydia Encinas was not the translator. But I did meet with her in Los Angeles”, answered Birchim. “Caruso also noted, that when asked to explain why, in the course of a criminal investigation, he had met up with a National Enquirer reporter in the first place – Birchim refused to elaborate.”

In actuality, what was wrongly presented as "FBI files" back in 2013 by the Sunday People contains some interesting information about Blanca. (Of course, these are not FBI files by any means but notes made by tablod repoters - notably Barresi and Mitteager).

This part is about Blanca Francia:

We learn several things from this: 1) Blanca was talking about suing MJ for money before the criminal investigation was even over. (This note is from March 3, 1994 - as it says "yesterday, March 2nd"), 2) As he admitted on the stand she contemplated selling her story to more tabloid media than just Hard Copy, but she then did not. From this doc we learn that she only did not do that because "the cops put her under wraps" (and therefore she regretted her interview with Hard Copy - I guess she realized she should have gone to the National Enquirer first, before the cops put her under wraps - they always paid more). Here the names are blocked out, but based on the above story it is safe to say the last paragraph is about National Enquirer reporter Lydia Encinas helping to transcribe Francia’s police interview.

And of course Dinane Dimond and the money she got from Hard Copy to "remember" this little shower story.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I was wondering few days ago if the fact they asked for Blanca Francia's testimony means she didn't agree to cooperate with them, what do you guys think?

I think it may not be necessary at this point that she would be deposed. They can simply cite her testimony. It does not necessarily mean that she didn't agree to cooperate or anything.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

May be she was afraid to give another contradictory declaration under penalty of perjury.

lol maybe!

I think it may not be necessary at this point that she would be deposed. They can simply cite her testimony. It does not necessarily mean that she didn't agree to cooperate or anything.

good point... just a wishful thinking I guess

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I am confused, he's saying the maid said she saw a figure in the shower. Unless he is saying the figure was him what is the point of bringing it up?

 

[Annita]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think TMezz wants to take Weitzman's position in the case, I notices some challenging digs at the Branca and Weitzman. He might be in need for some high profile case because his and Ms Yu legal practice is dissolved.
Over all, that interview left me with bad impression of him

Is this true? Meseraus and Yu`s practice is dissolved?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Is this true? Meseraus and Yu`s practice is dissolved?

Yeah they parted ways amicably.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I am confused, he's saying the maid said she saw a figure in the shower. Unless he is saying the figure was him what is the point of bringing it up?

I think he's going to say it's him only- he denied it before, she never saw who it was so she can't place him in the shower, she isn't even sure that she saw two people and she isn't sure how many voices she heard.

It must be really difficult to count with so many voices in your head all while you're having a dream about Michael Jackson in a steamy shower.

 

[krikzil]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

 

[Justthefacts]

I think he's going to say it's him only- he denied it before, she never saw who it was so she can't place him in the shower, she isn't even sure that she saw two people and she isn't sure how many voices she heard.

It must be really difficult to count with so many voices in your head all while you're having a dream about Michael Jackson in a steamy shower.

Like I said it is one of those questions there is no ifs andor buts. Were you in the shower with him? No. Did he show you porn? No. Not only changing your answer but totally acting like you never said it? Nah dude acting like it&#8217;s not there does not take it away<o></o>

 

[Annita]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I find the the new Yu-page far more sympathic then the new Meserau-site. Don`t like his headline about winning impossible trials. In fact the Prosecutor had a weak case.

http://www.mesereauyu.com/