[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[passy001]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Give me a break. Gavin and his family were nothing more but a bunch of scheming con artists who made a living from lying/extortion. It was revealed in court documents that the mother Janet Arvizo had met with a civil attorney about suing Michael Jackson for sexual abuse BEFORE she even met him, which shows that the whole thing was a set up from the beginning. They set out to meet Michael Jackson for the sole purpose of scamming him just like how they scammed JCpenny and many others. They were not only found to have lied in the past but were also caught in numerous lies on the witness stand. They were a total disaster for the prosecution and that is why Jackson was acquitted of all counts, so enough with this whole "oh he's a superstar, he's above the law, nobody can take him down" blah, blah, blah...Only an idiot would believe that Jackson would ask a child whom he had planned to molest to appear in a documentary with him that's going to air on national tv and sit there holding hands with the child and talk about sleeping in the same bedroom and then after the documentary airs and he is under severe worldwide scrutiny for allegations of being a pedophile, he then starts molesting the boy and committing all those heinous acts. Perhaps people should try doing some research on pedophiles and see how they operate.

Gavin and his family were hopelessly discredited on the stand. That's why he did not file a civil suit after the criminal trial. he had no chances whatsoever.

New text: What i find odd is that on one hand he claims to have sympathy for the accusers during the trial. on the other hand he claims he had been brainwashed to believe that his 100 instances of abuse were acts of love. how is that possible when the very same man, he is now accusing, was being trialed in front of the world for these very same acts. how could he not have realized that these so-called acts of love were wrong? remember at the time he was in his mid-20s, which makes it even hard to believe his claim.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

yep. that's right. his case comes off as a carbon copy of robson's except some minor changes here and there.

still, his case remains a case of delayed discovery (connection between the psychological harms, if any at all, and the alleged abuse) and because of that he's still bared by the 60 days statute. there is no way he can get around that.

Based on this declaration I assume their argument for equitable estoppel (as opposed to delayed discovery) is this alleged threat by MJ that Safechuck's "life would be over" if anyone found out. He claims he continued to believe this all his life until he filed his lawsuit. But I don't think it works. They somehow completely want to ignore Probate Code 9103 which gives a Plaintiff 60 days to file a complain after he gained knowlede of the facts giving arise to his claims. This means even if they now claim he did not have full knowledge of the facts giving arise to his claims until the end of 2013 (which is a dubious claim in itself, to say the least) they still missed to file within 60 days. PC 9103 gave him an opportunity to make a complaint after he says he discovered he was abused/it was wrong/his psychological injuries were linked to abuse (whichever he claims now) but he missed it. I just cannot see why he should be given equitable estoppel under these circumstances. For God's sake, he hired a lawyer in October 2013 - the same lawyer as Robson's - to sue the Estate and he wants to tell us that somehow he was still unaware of the facts giving arise to his claims until 6-8 months later? How does that even make sense?

 

[passy001]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Based on this declaration I assume their argument for equitable estoppel (as opposed to delayed discovery) is this alleged threat by MJ that Safechuck's "life would be over" if anyone found out. He claims he continued to believe this all his life until he filed his lawsuit. But I don't think it works. They somehow completely want to ignore Probate Code 9103 which gives a Plaintiff 60 days to file a complain after he gained knowlede of the facts giving arise to his claims. This means even if they now claim he did not have full knowledge of the facts giving arise to his claims until the end of 2013 (which is a dubious claim in itself, to say the least) they still missed to file within 60 days. PC 9103 gave him an opportunity to make a complaint after he says he discovered he was abused/it was wrong/his psychological injuries were linked to abuse (whichever he claims now) but he missed it. I just cannot see why he should be given equitable estoppel under these circumstances. For God's sake, he hired a lawyer in October 2013 - the same lawyer as Robson's - to sue the Estate and he wants to tell us that somehow he was still unaware of the facts giving arise to his claims until 6-8 months later? How does that even make sense?

I agree. Why would he hire a civil(money) lawyer in the first place? they have been working on this for 8 months. so he can't claim that he still did not fully realize the connection between his injuries and the alleged abuse.

It's obvious his declaration was designed specifically to get around the statues. everything that is said looks "staged" to cover obvious loopholes.

 

[dannyboy72]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Gavin and his family were hopelessly discredited on the stand. That's why he did not file a civil suit after the criminal trial. he had no chances whatsoever.

New text: What i find odd is that on one hand he claims to have sympathy for the accusers during the trial. on the other hand he claims he had been brainwashed to believe that his 100 instances of abuse were acts of love. how is that possible when the very same man, he is now accusing, was being trialed in front of the world for these very same acts. how could he not have realized that these so-called acts of love were wrong? remember at the time he was in his mid-20s, which makes it even hard to believe his claim.

Diane Dimond stated in an article that the Arvizos were not after money because they have not profited from the case in any way. Perhaps being exposed as frauds and getting humiliated in front of the entire world had caused them to change their scheming ways which is why they haven't profited from the case and feel no desire to do so. I really wish people would stop giving these actors sympathy/attention and save it for real victims.

 

[HIStory]

Diane Dimond stated in an article that the Arvizos were not after money because they have not profited from the case in any way. Perhaps being exposed as frauds and getting humiliated in front of the entire world had caused them to change their scheming ways which is why they haven't profited from the case and feel no desire to do so. I really wish people would stop giving these actors sympathy/attention and save it for real victims.

Ms Dimond forgot to mention that the first thing the Arvizos did was going to a lawyer and they only did not start a civil trial right away because they could not because of a law change that did not allow a civil trial be brought ahead of a criminal in the same matter. Moreover she also forgets to mention how if the Arvizos had won the criminal trial that would have meant an automatic win for them in a civil trial (ie. money) which was admitted by both lawyers who represented them:

William Dickermann:

Q. But you certainly know that if someone has a judgment of a criminal conviction against them for sexual assault, you can use that in a civil court to establish liability and not have to incur the expenses and the time involved in a trial on liability, right? A. I would assume that to be the case.
Q. The only issue at that point would be how much money you get in a civil courtroom, correct?
A. I don’t know if there are other issues, but I think as the judgment, that’s true of any criminal action, that you don’t then have to go, once again, and prove exactly what was proved with a higher burden of proof.

​

Larry Feldman:

Q. Isn’t it true that a judgment of conviction in a criminal case for anything related to child molestation could be dispositive in a parallel civil suit alleged for the same facts? A. As long as it’s a felony conviction, that’s right.
Q. In other words, if Mr. Jackson were convicted of felony child molestation in this case, either Gavin Arvizo or Star Arvizo could use that conviction to essentially win a civil case regarding similar alleged facts against Mr. Jackson?
A. That’s correct.
Q. If there were a conviction for felony child molestation in this case, and if Star or Gavin elected to sue in a civil case based on the similar alleged facts of sexual abuse, essentially the only issue remaining would be how much money you get, correct?
A. Probably. I think that’s — it’s close enough. I mean, nothing is that simple, as just stated. You know it as well as I. But essentially I think that’s what would happen. [4]

​

 

[MattyJam]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It is so obvious when you read these so-called victim statements that their levels of entitlement are off the charts. Growing up around the most famous and adored man on the planet had to come with its perks but if there was anything unhealthy in MJs relationship with these kids, it is that it gave some of the more morally ambiguous brats a very skewed sense of reality and what was achieveable in their own lives. Now they are adults and MJ is dead, they want what they feel they are entitled to. Going from Neverland to a full time job has gotta suck! And being a washed up choreographer at 30 can't be a barrel of laughs either.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Btw - where exactly James hands appear on Earth Song?

 

[passy001]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Diane Dimond stated in an article that the Arvizos were not after money because they have not profited from the case in any way. Perhaps being exposed as frauds and getting humiliated in front of the entire world had caused them to change their scheming ways which is why they haven't profited from the case and feel no desire to do so. I really wish people would stop giving these actors sympathy/attention and save it for real victims.

these are just spins. the reality is that they were so badly discredited that they had no chances. after all they first went to a money lawyer before going to therapy and the prosecution.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Just because the Arvizos didn't make any profit from the case (questionable) doesn't mean they didn't intend to. In fact, I think money is all they were after maybe getting Michael's attention too but mainly money. Sneddon and his team probably promised them the moon. Don't forget they had a record of frauds and money related crimes.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You know what, Jimmie saw how Gavin and his family were being treated by the media , let's assume for the sake of arguement that he was indeed fearful for his life all these years. But why did he keep all those MJ's souvenirs? I believe predators keep souvenirs of their victims but it seems the opposite happened in MJ's case, all his so called victims kept everything he gave them . Even Gavin after he testified, he asked the court to give him back MJ's watch which was seized as evidence :blink:

 

[MattyJam]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Just because the Arvizos didn't make any profit from the case (questionable)

Very questionable.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The Arvizos got victims compensation fund money. Reporters took Gavin and his brother out shopping and they got plenty from Michael. They got something alright.

 

[MattyJam]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^ I think it went further than that. Look at the people who attended Gavin's wedding. I am 100% convinced that the Arvizo's were lucratively compensated for the 2003 allegations.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^ I think it went further than that. Look at the people who attended Gavin's wedding. I am 100% convinced that the Arvizo's were lucratively compensated for the 2003 allegations.

I agree. I don't think it's a coincidence that these people, the Arvizos and prosecutors became such great "friends". We know for a fact that Louise Palanker gave money to the Arvizos before the trial so why wouldn't that "charity" continue after the trial when she married Ron Zonen? Of course, that would also have the benefit of keeping the Arvizos pleased and loyal to the false story they and the prosecution built up together.

 

[MattyJam]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I agree. I don't think it's a coincidence that these people, the Arvizos and prosecutors became such great "friends". We know for a fact that Louise Palanker gave money to the Arvizos before the trial so why wouldn't that "charity" continue after the trial when she married Ron Zonen? Of course, that would also have the benefit of keeping the Arvizos pleased and loyal to the false story they and the prosecution built up together.

I wonder how common it is for deputy district attourneys to attend the weddings of victims?

I'm no expert on the protocol of US prosecutors. Perhaps it's common practise?

 

[la_cienega]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

LOL on top of all that, Janet Arvizo was bragging she had a 100k book deal to family and friends during the trial.

I actually LOVE how much credit he's giving to the Arvizo's here and how he's trying to be all sob story about what happened in 2005, because it really confirms he believes their claims are viable and is therefore the reason 80% of his claims have been copied from them (the daddy stuff, the alcohol, the porn - everyone forgets most of their other claims like head licking, running about in front of them naked telling them it's okay to be naked, threatening to have their families killed, having people go to their homes to throw rocks at them, forcing them into saying nice things on camera to use as proof later, hostage taking, etc), it just shows he's really trying to use their stories for his own. He has no real idea about how severely shit their stories and credibility actually are. I don't think he would be copying them and saying stuff about them if he thought otherwise (look at how Wade carefully avoids anything to do with them).

Of all the people to try and align yourselves with - the bloody Arvizo's. LOL

The stuff he says about being in Earth Song and stuff like that does make me wonder if in the future he intends to try and get more $$$$$ from the estate by claiming he's owed royalties.


Anyway, this new claim is actually GOOD and I'm glad for it, it's exactly what I hoped would happen - that these idiot's would have to try and contradict their own claims to try and make it still work in their attempt to get money. Forcing them into contradicting themselves is truly the best method we have of exposing them right now, as we can't cross examine them in court.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He uses the Arvizos just to play on the whole "celebrity justice" myth. And I actually had the feeling it's also a little attempted emotional pressure on the Judge. (BTW, Wade too took the porn element from the Arvizos.)

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wouldn't be surprised if their lawyers know this isn't going to work and just prolonging it for as long as they can for some reason. They seem to ignore what they were asked to provide and they keep beating around the bush. I know that's what lawyers do but it's like they're not even trying to give a legit explanation. They added some more details about the alleged abuse and contradicted their previous claims which are irrelevant because James' story itself is not the issue at this point. I don't see the big change from the previous claim that should make the judge change his mind about it. Most of it is still irrelevant to the existing laws.

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think their trying to wear down the estate hoping they get the payoff their looking for. As for using the Arvizo's as much as he has maybe their trying to piggyback of the the fact that this is the 10th anniversary of the trial. And although there isn't much news at this point (a few but so far not many) on Safechuk's latest tale of woe I'm sure the media's made the connection.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It is so obvious when you read these so-called victim statements that their levels of entitlement are off the charts. Growing up around the most famous and adored man on the planet had to come with its perks but if there was anything unhealthy in MJs relationship with these kids, it is that it gave some of the more morally ambiguous brats a very skewed sense of reality and what was achieveable in their own lives. Now they are adults and MJ is dead, they want what they feel they are entitled to. Going from Neverland to a full time job has gotta suck! And being a washed up choreographer at 30 can't be a barrel of laughs either.

I thought this was a really interesting (and true) comment about them. You know where I first noticed this 'entitlement' thing? It was on a Joy Robson audio interview that I listened to about four or so years ago-maybe I found the link here.

At the time, it was pretty cute and a fairly light, talkative interview about how she and the kids came here from Australia, and the hard work they all went through to try to make the kids stars. And Michael, of course, was pretty busy with his own career, so he didn't have a lot of time to devote to them. Michael signed him, and put him in a couple of videos, and the pay was lousy, but everything else they had to go out and get on their own. Even Wade was ragging about how hard it was-at the time I laughed-

like what did they expect? You come to America and you become an overnight sensation? They finally get to California and look around Neverland-and see what's possible?

Wade isn't exactly Judy Garland or Michael Jackson and both of them worked their little baby butts off for years and years before they made it big.

But I listened to it again after the allegations, and this time I heard the bitterness. She was upset that they weren't overnight successes, and you could tell that was the expectation. As far as I'm concerned they did achieve success early-not too many kids become choreographers at 17 or have their own MTV show at 19 or 20. Maybe that was due to June and Wade's hard work, because she made it out that Michael didn't just fling open doors for them-but she also came off as another extremely pushy stage mother that wants her kid to be a star.

And when all of that fell apart, Wade is after the money he felt entitled to from the only person he can take revenge out on. (or who has BIG MONEY)


Oh, I do feel like all of these documents have been written to appeal to Bekloff's emotional side-I hope he doesn't have any kind of soft side.

 

[la_cienega]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wouldn't be surprised if their lawyers know this isn't going to work and just prolonging it for as long as they can for some reason.

It's the only way to get this thing to work out for them.

Make the estate want to pay them to just shut up and go away finally. Do that by continually updating the story in leaked court docs to keep dripping tidbits of your supposed abuse all over the tabloids.

Importantly: try and get enough media attention that other greedy people come out to join them.

Keeping it active for as long as possible is their only hope. They know the statutes don't work, they know these cases have no chance, but they want to scare the estate into settling.

 

[passy001]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's the only way to get this thing to work out for them.

Make the estate want to pay them to just shut up and go away finally. Do that by continually updating the story in leaked court docs to keep dripping tidbits of your supposed abuse all over the tabloids.

Importantly: try and get enough media attention that other greedy people come out to join them.

Keeping it active for as long as possible is their only hope. They know the statutes don't work, they know these cases have no chance, but they want to scare the estate into settling.

They forget that the estate has the resources to keep going until the end of time. but can safechuck and robson hold on for that long? who's paying their legal bills? and when this is over and done with, the estate will blast them with its own legal bills.

 

[HIStory]

I thought this was a really interesting (and true) comment about them. You know where I first noticed this 'entitlement' thing? It was on a Joy Robson audio interview that I listened to about four or so years ago-maybe I found the link here.

At the time, it was pretty cute and a fairly light, talkative interview about how she and the kids came here from Australia, and the hard work they all went through to try to make the kids stars. And Michael, of course, was pretty busy with his own career, so he didn't have a lot of time to devote to them. Michael signed him, and put him in a couple of videos, and the pay was lousy, but everything else they had to go out and get on their own. Even Wade was ragging about how hard it was-at the time I laughed-

like what did they expect? You come to America and you become an overnight sensation? They finally get to California and look around Neverland-and see what's possible?

Wade isn't exactly Judy Garland or Michael Jackson and both of them worked their little baby butts off for years and years before they made it big.

But I listened to it again after the allegations, and this time I heard the bitterness. She was upset that they weren't overnight successes, and you could tell that was the expectation. As far as I'm concerned they did achieve success early-not too many kids become choreographers at 17 or have their own MTV show at 19 or 20. Maybe that was due to June and Wade's hard work, because she made it out that Michael didn't just fling open doors for them-but she also came off as another extremely pushy stage mother that wants her kid to be a star.

And when all of that fell apart, Wade is after the money he felt entitled to from the only person he can take revenge out on. (or who has BIG MONEY)


Oh, I do feel like all of these documents have been written to appeal to Bekloff's emotional side-I hope he doesn't have any kind of soft side.

I agree.

There is also this interview from 1994:

“When we first came here I thought we would have achieved more in three years but now – I look at the reality of life and the business – and compare what we have done with others who have been in the industry all their lives, and I think we have done very well,” said Joy.

I would do it all again for the same reasons I did it in the first place. I had to give it a try or I would be forever wondering if I could have done it. I believed I had nothing to lose.”

Joy said she has been lucky to have had the full support and encouragement of her parents and family `Downunder’. “We really miss them too,” she said.

But despite the family’s roller coaster existence since arriving in LA, they are determined to ride it to the end. “We have learned to stand up and fight for what and who we believe in. It has been a hard lesson, but surviving this we feel we can face anything. It would have been easy to pack our bags and go home but it wouldn’t have been the right thing to do.”

So you come to the US and you get parts in Michael Jackson videos and commercials and get a record deal, but you are still unsatisfied and you think you should have achieved more in three years? And Wade was 12 at the time of this interview. What did they think that Wade would be by the age of 12?

I do sense a big deal of entitlement in both Robson and Safechuck, although they had different lives. Robson became a successful choreographer, but apparently he aspired for more due to Michael telling him he would be a new Spielberg, international superstar, this or that. He also seems to have a genetical mental illness that is running in his family which made him have breakdowns and eventually fail in his career. He seems to blame the pressure to succeed on Michael, although it was really his mother who put him under such pressure.

Joy said Wade and daughter Chantal developed an American accent almost immediately. As a result, Wade was doing three or four auditions between 3-7pm each day. While Wade worked hard, attending audition after audition, learning lines, practising and rehearsing his dance movements, so too did Joy – his greatest supporter. The two are almost inseparable and make career decisions together.

Safechuck never became successful in showbiz and apparently he also blames it on MJ that he could not go to University.

And:

And:

Putting aside the absurdity of this latest part, it seems that until around 2003-04 he still hoped that he and MJ would get together to make movies or something in entertainment.

To me it seems that the guy is bitter that his aspired entertainment career never really kicked off and he also blames it on MJ that he doesn't have a University degree. So I guess that's how he is able to justify to himself why he is entitled to Michael's money by lying about him.

BTW, this whole thing is odd to me and I'd really love to see his initial complaint because from the informations we got from that it seemed like in that one he claimed his relationship with MJ just stopped around 1997. Now we get all these new(?) additions about MJ's huge influence on him and his parents still as he was trying to go to University and until 2003-04... He says he enrolled in Moonpark Community College at 19, in 1997. I think they usually have a two-year education. So he would have tried to go to University in about 1999. So he claims that at the time MJ still had such a huge influence on him and his parents that he somehow stopped him from going to University? Wasn't the story that their relationship tapered off in 1997? And why would he do that? Yes, Michael had a love for movies and entertainment, but he was also big on education. Didn't he finance his nephews (3T) to get to college/University?

It seems to me that Safechuck is another guy who wants to blame all his failures in life on Michael and feel entitled to his money.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

How can you blame another person for what going in your life. Michael has done so much for Wade and James and for them to blame MJ is just plain wrong.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's the only way to get this thing to work out for them.

I agree but since they don't stand a chance with a settlement they're just going around in circles with no purpose. Not that I'm worried about James and Wade's legal fees, for all I care I hope they're going to get such a high bill they'd regret to ever start this BS in the first place. Unless they try to wear the judge down.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Unless they try to wear the judge down.

THAT'S my concern. I don't think we need to worry about wearing out the estate-and the publicity has been next to nil. It's only hitting obscure tabloids, it seems, that are all cutting and pasting Radar Online. So the Estate can easily handle that and the financial part.

It's the judge that worries me-probably because he has let it drag on and on. I keep telling myself it's because of the appeal aspect, but it still worries me.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ Well I hope that's not how it works. I think it could be their current strategy but I also think it's a lame one and I want to believe the judge see through them.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

THAT'S my concern. I don't think we need to worry about wearing out the estate-and the publicity has been next to nil. It's only hitting obscure tabloids, it seems, that are all cutting and pasting Radar Online. So the Estate can easily handle that and the financial part.

It's the judge that worries me-probably because he has let it drag on and on. I keep telling myself it's because of the appeal aspect, but it still worries me.

Judges follow the law. Not emotional and not because they get worn down

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm sure the judge is fully experienced in long drawn out legal procedures. Definitely not the first time he's dealt with this.
I'd love to be able to sneak a peek at their lawyers account files. See how the bills are mounting and if anything has been paid and if so by whom. Since their claims are going in circles, maybe his team are the ones getting run down. Not that I believe that but I wish it were true.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Judges follow the law. Not emotional and not because they get worn down

I just want to say that I'm not trying to be a pessimist about this. I'm really not. I do get real emotional and angry and frustrated about it because I want Michael to be totally vindicated and have for years. (As I'm sure we all have).

I think my problem is that after reading all the bad judge decisions from the previous cases and realizing how Michael was denied his basic civil rights over and over, I trust no judge.
So I get frustrated with Beckloff because of all that.

He's been a good judge with previous probate matters so all I can do is hope he continues to be.