[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

This part

For James Safechuck, the boy Jackson really had ‘thrown away’, his former friend’s passing left him conflicted. He “felt sad” at the realization that he and Jackson would never be able to have a “normal relationship” and that “his experiences with Decedent would never be resolved.” In spite of the abuse and the ugly note on which they last left, there were still pangs of guilty longing for the man who’d taken ten-year-old Jimmy’s innocence in order to rekindle his own — James had, in fact, “deeply loved and idolized” Jackson.

doesn't it sound like he was very much aware of his alleged "abuse" in 2009?

edited to add: I also don't know how you resolve your issues and have a normal relationship with someone who allegedly abused you over 100 times. Or why would anyone want to have a normal relationship with their abuser?
 
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^ Good point.

ivy;4080502 said:
edited to add: I also don't know how you resolve your issues and have a normal relationship with someone who allegedly abused you over 100 times. Or why would anyone want to have a normal relationship with their abuser?

I agree. To me it's also odd that after being abused over 100 times he would still want to be anywhere near this man. Just like with that there were no symptoms. No rage, no any kind of psychological symptom at the time. Yes, he is trying to link his later anxiety issues and panic attacs to his alleged abuse, but those are psychological issues that half of America has and apparently it first appeared when he was 17. So during the alleged abuse there was nothing? While being abused over 100 times?
Heck, not even sexual confusion, since at the same time he says he was going out with girls and had a crush for Sheryl Crow. Even if he claims now that he questioned his sexuality and whether he was gay because of the abuse, but apart from him claiming that now it does not really seem to be the case based on his actions. And he was jealous of Brett and that Brett slept in MJ's room while the shooting of Jam and he did not? Shouldn't he be rather releived that his abuse stopped? And it seems that Wade wasn't that special either after all:

Joy Robson also recollected in 2005 during Jackson’s child molestation trial that she and her son only saw Jackson on set, perhaps not even for lunch, and didn’t know what hotel he’d booked for the stay.

Jam was shot in 1992. While James could claim that MJ already moved on from him by the time, but Wade was only 11 and according to his claims MJ molested him until 1997. Yet, it seems he was not all to interested in Wade on the set of Jam.

I'm confused about what he claims:

9. Based on the statute scheme as listed in CCP Section 340.1 and pattern recognition through comparisons with Wade Robson’s Complaint, from which the lawyers frequently copy-and-paste, it was easy to glean, through the redactions, what James Safechuck alleged against Jackson: 266j; “lewd and lascivious acts”: 288(a) and 288(b)(1); “oral copulation”: 288a(b)(1), 288a(b)(2), 288a(c)(1), 288a(c)(2)(A), 288a(c)(2)(B), 288a(c)(2)(C), and 288a(c)(3); “sexual penetration”: 289(h), 289(i), and 289(j); “molesting or annoying a child”: 647.6. He was spared anal sodomy.

So first D claims "sexual penetration" is claimed then that "he was spared anal sodomy". So which is it?
289(h), 289(i), and 289(j) are about sexual penetration, so if that is in his claim then he does claim that.

He also claims this:

288. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (i), any person who
willfully and lewdly commits any lewd or lascivious act, including
any of the acts constituting other crimes provided for in Part 1,
upon or with the body, or any part or member thereof, of a child who
is under the age of 14 years, with the intent of arousing, appealing
to, or gratifying the lust, passions, or sexual desires of that
person or the child, is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by
imprisonment in the state prison for three, six, or eight years.
(b) (1) Any person who commits an act described in subdivision (a)
by use of force, violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and
unlawful bodily injury on the victim or another person, is guilty of
a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison
for 5, 8, or 10 years.


(2) (A) Any person who commits an act of oral copulation when the
act is accomplished against the victim's will by means of force,
violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily
injury on the victim or another person shall be punished by
imprisonment in the state prison for three, six, or eight years.

(B) Any person who commits an act of oral copulation upon a person
who is under 14 years of age, when the act is accomplished against
the victim's will by means of force, violence, duress, menace, or
fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury on the victim or another
person, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for 8,
10, or 12 years.

(3) Any person who commits an act of oral copulation where the act
is accomplished against the victim's will by threatening to
retaliate in the future against the victim or any other person, and
there is a reasonable possibility that the perpetrator will execute
the threat, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
three, six, or eight years.
(C) Any person who commits an act of oral copulation upon a minor
who is 14 years of age or older, when the act is accomplished against
the victim's will by means of force, violence, duress, menace, or
fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury on the victim or another
person, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for 6,
8, or 10 years.

In other words he claims rape. So how would he not know it was wrong and it was "loving", if it was against his will "by means of force, violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury"?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^

(1) "Sexual penetration" is the act of causing the penetration,however slight, of the genital or anal opening of any person or causing another person to so penetrate the defendant's or another person's genital or anal opening for the purpose of sexual arousal,gratification, or abuse by any foreign object, substance, instrument,or device, or by any unknown object.

and

(a) Sodomy is sexual conduct consisting of contact between the penis of one person and the anus of another person. Any sexual penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the crime of sodomy.

So I think she means penetration by a foreign object and not by a penis.

(and penetration seems like could be other way too - causing plaintiff unwillingly penetrating the defendant with an object)
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So here it is a bit shortened, with only the parts which appear to be based on Safechuck's complaint. Of course, it's still full of loaded expressions and bias:

What a sick and twisted mind to come up with this stuff. It's almost like whoever wrote this gets off on this kind of stuff, like they have secret fantasies of MJ being a pedophile lover. Gross.

I'm so glad that Michael doesn't have to witness this. I can't even imagine how I would feel if I were betrayed in such a way :cry:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^

(1) "Sexual penetration" is the act of causing the penetration,however slight, of the genital or anal opening of any person or causing another person to so penetrate the defendant's or another person's genital or anal opening for the purpose of sexual arousal,gratification, or abuse by any foreign object, substance, instrument,or device, or by any unknown object.
and

(a) Sodomy is sexual conduct consisting of contact between the penis of one person and the anus of another person. Any sexual penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the crime of sodomy.

So I think she means penetration by a foreign object and not by a penis.

(and penetration seems like could be other way too)


Thanks. Now this is about the third version of supposed modus operandi in terms of sexual acts that MJ supposedly had according to these accusers. They just can't keep it consistent.


What a sick and twisted mind to come up with this stuff. It's almost like whoever wrote this gets off on this kind of stuff, like they have secret fantasies of MJ being a pedophile lover. Gross.

Oh, Desiree absolutely salivates on this. You can feel how much she enjoys writing about these things the way she does. She's certifiable. (I also have the suspicion that she might have been assisting Safechuck with the creation these allegations. Or the very least he must have used her blog and MJfacts as source material.)
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thanks. So it seems like he might claim that he had to penetrate MJ but he wasn't penetrated.

could be but to me the difference is not just that. Sodomy requires penis. So apparently he's not claiming a penis penetration. Sexual penetration in my understanding everything other than a penis. So it could be for example inserting a finger either M to JS or JS to M.

I can't believe what we are writing here.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

could be but to me the difference is not just that..

Yes, I realized my mistake.

Yes, unfortunately this is a subject where sometimes we get dragged down to the gutter. It makes me so angry that they are putting MJ's through this again. I wish nothing but the worst for these people for the rest of their lives.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And maybe I missed it but what cook testified about upchuck being abused?
 
Justthefacts;4080520 said:
And maybe I missed it but what cook testified about upchuck being abused?

Mark Quindoy claimed to have seen MJ grabbing Jimmy's crotch in the jacuzzi. Of course, he only started to "remember" this when trying to sell this and other stories to tabloids for money in 1993. As usual.

ETA. I see you refer to this part:

Farcically and with zero self-awareness, Jackson called 25-year-old James a total of three times throughout the trial in an attempt to get James on the stand to “deny everything that the cooks at Neverland said that they saw happen between Decedent and him,” his Petition says. The bid failed spectacularly.

This is interesting because if the claim is that the "cooks" or any cook testified about these things at the trial and that is why Safechuck was called, that is very much wrong. No one ever testified about Safechuck. Quindoy's claim was only in a prosecution motion but he never testified about it (supposedly he died). Blanca Francia never testified about her claim about Safechuck either, in fact she contradicted on the stand what is claimed in that prosecution motion.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I can't believe what we are writing here.
:( yeah, I know so I have something different to ask. In reading this, I was wondering why Pelicano thought it was a good idea to put Brett and Wade on TV talking about sleepovers. Had anybody heard about those before?

I just find that odd bc not too many people would accept that. Personally, I have had hundred kids both related and not related sleep with me because I babysat part time while I worked full time. (Til I was about 26).
I wasn't ever accused of anything and I think people just think it's normal and it was ok for their kids to do that bc I'm a woman. Parents were happy about it. They were thrilled that their kids were taken care of and the kids loved and trusted me and felt safe.

It's also the main reason why I never had a problem with this, because I would never hurt kids in this situation, so why would Michael (Not that I wouldn't have believed him, had I not had a similar experience. Never doubted him for one single solitary second)

But men usually don't so I'm just surprised that Pelicano would initiate that.

But if I win the lottery I suppose any of them could say I did something to them. And pay somebody to corroborate their story!!
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

When you cut through all of the garbage you find a story that makes no sense. And insults your intelligence
 
To me, this narrative contains two curious uses of language:

1. James says in his Complaint that Jackson referred to their union as 'a “faux committed relationship” that had to stay between them only and required monogamy, at least on Jimmy’s end'.
That seems a very odd description for anyone to use to a teenager ( I've lost track of Jimmy's supposed age at this point). 'Faux' is not a word in common usage with regard to relationships, and surely the point being made in the (supposed) conversation is that the relationship should be a 'committed one' not a 'false' committed one'?

2. The second odd use of language is here:
'Jimmy was the first guest to stay overnight at the Ranch, but before its amenities and typical features had been added. There was “no large ‘Neverland Ranch’ sign, only the main house, pool, and a trampoline,” James recalls of the then threadbare mansion.'

Having seen the William Bone sales brochure, I'd hardly call Neverland (Sycamore Valley Ranch) 'threadbare' at the time of purchase.

These stories do however seem 'threadbare'...with copious embroidery to cover the deficiencies......
 
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My observations. Sorry for the LONG post :blush: I'm splitting it into several parts to make it easier on the eyes.

(The infatuated Jackson would also give Jimmy one of his Thriller jackets. Jackson took the jacket back years later since it was slated to be on show at a museum, but he promised the boy the display would bear the sign “On loan from Jimmy Safechuck”. Jimmy got to keep other jackets and costumes, which he claims he still has.)

We know that Michael gave away jackets, gloves, hats and other memorabilia all the time, to children and adults alike. So if this is meant to show some type of special bond between Michael and Jimmy, it doesn’t. It only raises the question why on earth Jimmy would keep this stuff to this day, knowing it was meant as a bribe from his abuser. If that were me, I’d want to get rid of anything that reminds me of the abuse as soon as possible. I guess anything Michael ever gave him will now be construed as a bribe.

For his part in this seduction process, Jackson also expressed affection for his new friend and adopted family, as transcribed from part of a chat between the two taped on the boy’s cassette recorder in February 1988:
Plaintiff: “What do you think about lying?”
Decedent: “People make up stories about [Michael Jackson].”
Plaintiff: “Do you like performing?”
Decedent: “Favorite things are writing songs, performing, and being with Jimmy.”
Plaintiff: “Any new plans?”
Decedent: “Smooth Criminal short film, new Pepsi commercial, best Pepsi commercial was the one with Jimmy because he had heart, best thing about Hawaii was spending time with Jimmy, love Jimmy’s family and want to spend time with them.”
– Complaint, p. 6 – 7

Seems a bit strange that Michael would use the word “Jimmy” when he’s actually talking to Jimmy himself on the phone. It’s more likely that Michael said something along the lines of “my favourite things are writing songs, performing, and being with you of course” which is just Michael being kind to a young kid. Isn’t it normal to be more affectionate with children than with adults, especially when you are very close to them and haven’t seen them for a while? Children are just more emotional and ‘honest’ in that way. When I talk to my nephews on the phone they constantly tell me how much they love me and miss me and want to be with me, and I respond in kind. You must have a pretty sick mind to consider this kind of talk “grooming”.

(According to the Complaint, Jackson referred to James as “Rubba”, and in other portions of the above “mock” interview conducted and recorded by Jimmy, Jackson uses this pet name. James states Jackson explained “Rubba” was short for “Rubberhead”. Eyewitnesses to Jackson’s relationships with boys suspected the nickname had a sexual undercurrent.)

I can only LOL at this.

The vacation Jackson referenced was the first of many spoiling, all-expenses-paid trips for the Safechuck family. In Hawaii was also the first time, James says, that Jackson asked if the boy could sleep with him in his hotel room. Prudently, Mrs. Safechuck rebuffed the request. He would try again in March 1988, approximately one month later, when Jimmy and his mother joined Jackson in New York. Paparazzi snapped one outing during that trip, as all three were accompanied by Liza Minelli to a Broadway showing of The Phantom of the Opera; Jackson and Jimmy were photographed holding hands and he later spoiled the boy with a shopping spree at the FAO Schwartz toy store. James recalls that while they stayed at the Trump Tower hotel in Manhattan, Jackson again pressed Mrs. Safechuck about the sleeping arrangements, and again she told Jackson that her ten-year-old son would stay with her.

That’s a first, isn’t it? As far as I recall, the other accusers all claimed that they were the ones who requested to sleep in Michael’s bedroom.

With the masturbation accomplished — another cardinal rule among Jackson’s ‘special friends’ — Jackson had the young boy hooked into his Neverland world, leading him to believe that sex between the two “were ‘acts of love’ and instigated by James himself, rather than Decedent.”

James recounts that after this initial intimacy, the abuse increased not only in frequency but also in variety. On another occasion during the Bad tour, Jackson and Jimmy engaged in a sex act redacted in his pleadings but one which Jackson “referred to … as ‘selling me some’.”

I know we have talked about this many times but I just can’t get past this. Jimmy seems to remember how the abuse unfolded in surprising detail; when and where it occurred, which sex acts they performed, how he felt about it at the time and even what his “rewards” were afterwards. Yet he did not realize there was anything wrong with a pre-pubescent boy having sex with a man in his 30s, not after Michael was publicly accused of this in 1993 resulting in a major scandal, not after Michael was again accused and stood trial in 2005 (and apparently threatened him during this time), not even after Michael’s death, but somehow seeing Wade on TV made it all click for him? And there are actual therapists who vouch for this?

Seemingly like a common escort, James says Jackson would “give James jewelry after [James] did this, as a ‘reward’.”

James claims he still owns some of the jewelry Jackson gave him in exchange for sex, including “a necklace with a medallion bearing Decedent’s face.”

This is again just bizarre. Who keeps souvenirs like this?

At some point, Jackson — perhaps in a agitated state of infatuation with Jimmy Safechuck and wanting to solidify his hold over his ‘special friend’ — held a secretive wedding ceremony and married Jimmy[7], “complete with a wedding ring and a signed document.” James says in his Complaint that Jackson referred to their union as a “faux committed relationship” that had to stay between them only and required monogamy, at least on Jimmy’s end.

And with this, Jimmy has officially entered the Arvizo “kidnapping to Brazil in hot air balloon” territory.

James says in his Complaint, “Decedent confessed to Plaintiff that his own father, Joseph Jackson, beat him when he was growing up if he ‘messed up’ or did not rehearse, and that Plaintiff was now giving Decedent the childhood he never had.”[8]

Sounds like something Michael would say, only it can’t be twisted into the perverted sense Jimmy is trying to make of it.

Jimmy was the first guest to stay overnight at the Ranch, but before its amenities and typical features had been added.

How special he is.
 
Though the house was sold to Jackson as-is, the infamous hallway chimes that became a part of Neverland’s dark mythology did not come with the property; according to James, they were set up as a function of Jackson’s paranoia: “Decedent eventually installed chimes in the hallway to his bedroom so that he could hear and be warned when people approached. Decedent later installed video cameras.” Mannequins and a “Do Not Disturb” sign kept Jackson’s bedroom off-limits.

In 1993, police raiding the Ranch were astounded to discover that Jackson’s hallway ‘sang’ as they came close to his bedroom door. It was speculated that, given the 30-foot length of the corridor between the hallway entrance and Jackson’s bedroom, the chimes served to aid in Jackson’s concealment of illicit sex with young boys. Additionally, Jackson’s door could only be unlocked from the inside, and, according to Wade Robson’s Petition, there was an “unspoken rule” that no one could enter Jackson’s bedroom when Jackson was inside and a ‘Do Not Disturb’ sign swung from the doorknob.

Call me crazy, but an alarm and video cameras in the hall leading up the bedroom seems pretty standard for a famous multi-millionaire’s home, no? I’m guessing Michael had alarms and security cameras all over the property. Besides, it is known that Michael loved to be surrounded by (classical) music and had speakers installed everywhere. I’m assuming these speakers had motion sensors so the music wouldn’t be playing if no one was around. As for the mannequins, there’s plenty of footage to show that these mannequins were all over Neverland as well, and how they exactly keep people away from Michael’s bedroom is a mystery to me. The “Do Not Disturb” sign, I have one of those too. But how dare Michael not want to be disturbed by staff or visitors when he’s in his own bedroom of his own home. I’m just waiting for the shock revelation (reminiscent of 2005) that Michael actually had a lock on his bedroom door as well. Note: I wrote that last sentence before reading the second paragraph which I pasted above because it suits the rest of my argument. I can’t believe they actually went there with the lock, LOL.

There was more than one bed available in Jackson’s two-story bedroom, but Jimmy, like many other ‘special friends’ before and after him, always slept in bed with Jackson when he visited the Ranch. Though the boy was slated to sleep in the upstairs Shirley Temple bedroom, he did not. James recalls he and Jackson “would ‘mess up’ the upstairs bedroom to make it look as though Plaintiff slept there,” apparently in an attempt to disguise their bed-sharing from Jackson’s chambermaids. It was an ironic move considering Jackson later said in interviews with Diane Sawyer, Martin Bashir, and Ed Bradley that his sleeping habits with unrelated children were a “pure” and “innocent” way of “sharing a love”.

This is ironic indeed but not for the reason the author thinks it is. It makes no sense for Michael to go to such measures to hide his bed-sharing from his own chambermaids but then freely and openly admit to this on national television, especially after he was accused of sexual molestation.

As an exercise of how well his boy had adhered to the programming, Jackson regularly had Jimmy run what Jackson coined “drills”, in which Jimmy would “practice putting on his clothes very fast and practice running away quietly so people would not hear him.” This, no doubt, came in handy if a school friend accompanied the boy on his trips to Neverland. Best friend Luke Martinez tagged along on several visits, and during one overnight stay while the boys enjoyed a “slumber party and game-type activities” with Jackson, Jimmy and Jackson would discreetly “‘sneak off’ to be alone”. Away from Luke in some secluded spot at the Ranch, sexual abuse would occur, James remembers. Luke never found out why his two sleepover buddies had slipped away; Jimmy and Jackson “were always careful when other people were around.”

I guess Jimmy has found a “witness” (who never actually witnessed anything). Again I’m amazed that Jimmy remembers these drills so well but even as an adult never stopped to think there was something not quite right here.

Ironically, in the context of all his obsessive ‘keep it in the closet’ messages, Jackson seemed to revel in what he believed to be his own skilled ‘evasion of capture’. Jackson, the consummate “jokester”, as James called him, who pulled stunts such as spitting on socks and hurling them over balconies at his admirers or using laser guns to shoot beams of red light into the adjacent rooms of fellow hotel guests, revealed his own narcissistic depravity through a perverse prank he played on his impressionable little friend. James recounts that while he and Jackson engaged in sexual activities, Jackson would trigger a flashbulb set up behind his bedroom window curtain “to resemble a camera bulb flashing.” Jimmy, who’d jokingly been informed by Jackson that paparazzi were snapping photos of them in the act, cried at the trick, and “Decedent was surprised by his reaction.” Jackson teased the boy he claimed to love with this prank on both the Bad tour and at Neverland, James remembers.

Seriously, does this sound at all like the Michael the world knows? Throwing socks with spit on them to fans? Playing such a cruel joke on a child while “abusing” him? How depraved do you have to be to smear the reputation of a dead man like that?

But if a nine- or ten-year-old girl didn’t stand a chance against Jackson’s possessiveness of Jimmy, Jackson was comparatively more vindictive about the boy’s “crush” on then Bad tour back-up singer Sheryl Crow. Jackson’s plan to hoard his boy’s ardor involved bombarding Jimmy with no doubt stealthily-captured photographs Jackson himself had taken of Crow without makeup, all in effort to convince the boy the blond, poodle-haired singer was simply too ugly and, therefore, undeserving of his boyhood fantasy-affections. Jackson didn’t want competition.

Wow, just... wow. This actually made me chuckle. God, the imagination of these people.

Spanning four years from 1988 to 1992 when James Safechuck was age ten to fourteen, he and Michael Jackson allegedly engaged in sex acts well “over 100 times” following that first encounter in Paris. When the Safechuck parents later gave Jimmy a “sex education discussion”, the boy was regrettably well practiced in the art.

Yet somehow this never raised any alarm bells.

At Jackson’s secretive Hideout, the two drank alcohol and looked at pornography. Some of the material were explicit “foreign books” of adults engaged in sex acts; some were movies. James says Jackson divided these latter ‘films’ into two categories. “Porn” was heterosexual and adult; other movies, “in which children were masturbating”, Jackson insisted the images were “not really porn”.

Interesting how no child pornography of any kind was ever found in any of Michael’s properties.

But between 1990 and 1991, simultaneous with Jimmy entering puberty, Jackson began a “transition” phase with the twelve-year-old.

Doesn’t make any sense when you consider the ages of the other accusers.
 
By 1992, Brett Barnes’s star was rising, an intrusion that saddened young teenage Jimmy Safechuck. Brett was nearly four years younger and had already began sleeping with Jackson in Jackson’s bed by the end of the first week of his very first stay at Neverland the prior year. James says he “inwardly became jealous of Brett because of the time and attention Decedent began devoting to him instead of Plaintiff.”

Shamelessly trying to drag Brett into this mess. I can only hope Brett has more honour and self-respect than these vultures.

Jackson had groomed the Safechuck family into believing that “the claims were a complete extortion attempt by the Chandler family,” the Petition says. “Claimant’s parents believed Decedent, convinced that he could do no wrong.” It was decided: they would help.
Ah, so this is how they plan to explain away their unwavering support for Michael throughout these allegations. Michael did not only groom Jimmy but his entire family as well. The man had magical powers of some sort.

James used the cover name “Jimmy Andrews” while working on Jackson’s 1994 HIStory teaser and 1995 video for “Earth Song”. But given the callous way Jackson dropped James for Brett Barnes in 1992, James’s sudden involvement in Jackson’s work or travels seemed more like an indebted quid pro quo following the sixteen-year-old’s helpful deposition the prior year than a genuine interest in the teenager.
Alternately, Jackson may have worried that if he failed to give “screwed up” Jimmy a little attention, the boy would crack and talk.
Then, at age 17, after these brief connections with his former friend, James’s ‘special friendship’ with Jackson completely vaporized.
So first Michael is terrified that James might crack and talk but after meeting him a few times (while at work), he is so confident with his brainwashing techniques that he just drops Jimmy completely without a care in the world? Like I said, magical powers at work.

His strong suit wasn’t in filmmaking but in academics. However, with Jackson’s own single-minded interest in film — an interest he also impressed upon Wade Robson and later his son Prince Jackson — James alleges that his “unsophisticated” parents were lead to believe Jackson’s promises of James’s success in the movie business:
Decedent told Plaintiff’s parents that he did not need to go to college, and convinced them to remove him from his Advanced Placement (“AP”) classes…. In conversations with the Decedent about dropping AP classes, Plaintiff’s mother stated that her son would end up doing what the Decedent was doing in his career, to which the Decedent agreed, stating that day would come, and when the Plaintiff became a filmmaker, there would be a “line around the block” to see him.
(James Safechuck, though he started out as a child actor in TV commercials, would never become a filmmaker. Instead, because of his knowledge of mathematics, he is now a computer programmer with a deft touch for code and web design.)
And THIS people, is what it’s all about. Jimmy’s bitter because he did not grow up to be rich and famous like Michael “promised” him. Another Steven Spielberg prophecy gone wrong. Otherwise, why even mention such a thing in a child abuse suit?

Things unraveled when he began to have a family. While his wife was pregnant with their son in 2010, he was prescribed Xanax, a short-term drug ‘fix’ that masks anxiety by dulling its symptoms. Apparently it didn’t help and worries resurfaced; in late 2010 after his son was born, James “began to worry that he himself would have pedophilic urges.”
Very disturbing, if true. And STILL he made no connection to the 100+ times he was sexually abused as a child?
 
LindavG;4080529 said:
Seems a bit strange that Michael would use the word “Jimmy” when he’s actually talking to Jimmy himself on the phone. It’s more likely that Michael said something along the lines of “my favourite things are writing songs, performing, and being with you of course” which is just Michael being kind to a young kid. Isn’t it normal to be more affectionate with children than with adults, especially when you are very close to them and haven’t seen them for a while? Children are just more emotional and ‘honest’ in that way. When I talk to my nephews on the phone they constantly tell me how much they love me and miss me and want to be with me, and I respond in kind. You must have a pretty sick mind to consider this kind of talk “grooming”

I don't think he was on the phone...MJ was doing a 'pretend interview' being taped with Jimmy, but saying things that would make Jimmy smile. MJ is on film doing this kind of thing with his family when he was a teenager...there is film of him 'interviewing' Katherine and other relatives on camera, during a Jackson family visit to a ranch, I think


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8DFGEkvJKg
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

A few points/questions:


1. It's amusing how the article pedals the age-old rhetoric that MJ married Lisa Marie as a PR stunt. Lisa has gone on record numerous times to say that they not only consumated their marriage, but that they enjoyed a healthy and normal sex life as husband and wife. If it was all a cynical and calculated rouse on MJ's part to keep the rumours of his depraved sexual lust for young boys at bay would he really have engaged in sexual conduct with Lisa? Seems a bit extreme for someone with a supposed strong aversion to women, especially as he could've easily married any women and kept up the facade of a sexless marriage just to be seen as a married man with a wife.


2. This article says Wade claims the abuse began in 1997 but I thought Wade had claimed MJ abused him the very first time he stayed at Neverland? Or did I read this wrong?

3. Again, they make such a big deal about MJ having security alarms that sound when someone is nearing his bedroom. This is standard security procedure for a high profile person. The Queen has the same thing at Buckingham Palace. If I was as famous as MJ, I would want that too. And all the crap about "Jackson's room being off limits" and hanging "do not disturb signs on the door." If I had a house with live-in staff and chamber maids, I would expect my bedroom to be off limits too when I was inside. It's a bit loose to suggest that MJ wanting privacy in his own bedroom is a sign of rampant paedophilia.

4. It is very odd that Safechuck had this realisation of how "sick" his relationship with MJ was so shortly after Wade. Safechuck has literally copied everything that Wade has claimed.... from not understanding how wrong his abuse was, to the anxiety and panic attacks in later life, to only realising the root of his mental health problems after seeing a therapist. What are the odds that they would both have the exact same experiences and it would all unravel in front of a therapist around the exact same time?
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^

Even if we believe everything he says, Safechuck clearly hasn't come to the realization in 2013 or 2014. Even in his version he was aware MJ was a bad man in 2005, he told his mother he was abused but didn't tell her the specifics. Even in 2009, he knew MJ's death meant they won't be able to discuss and resolve their issues.

He is only claiming to just have realized it to get around the deadlines of filing a lawsuit. In my mind there's no ifs or buts about it. When compared Robson's case is a lot more clean with his breakdowns and realizations and his claim of not realizing it until then. Safechuck's claim is a mess.

edited to add: and I think this is what Desiree meant with the legal talk she posted. Regardless of how they label it a "repressed memory" claim works for Robson's story but it doesn't work for Safechuck's story.
 
respect77;4080441 said:
The writer is not named but I'm pretty sure it's Desiree. We know for a fact that she is the one who obsesses about that claim by Mez about Safechuck marrying at Neverland and who sent e-mails to Safechuck's wife in 2011. Although at the end of the article she denies her attempts at contacting Safechuck in 2011 were successful I do suspect there is a contact or how else does he have this material - some of the claims seem to refer to Safechuck as a direct source and she even references a letter and an audio tape that IMO only Safechuck could have shown her. Unless they are directly quoted in his lawsuit. Which is possible though.
I'm guessing that all this new info is in safechuck's complaint that we the public haven't had access to - i'm not sure why safechuck or gradstein would give some random blogger any evidence like the letter etc. I'd be interested in knowing how this blogger (desiree?)got access to these court docs. It seems only tmz have seen safechuck's complaint, all other media reports just parrot their initial article. Maybe you're right that safechuck is giving her/him some inside info, or maybe desiree managed to inveigle it out of tmz, idk.

For the record, the issue about whether Safechuck married at Neverland or not is not as big as haters make it out to be. Their goal with this seems to be to catch Mez in some deliberate lie, but in actuality it seems to be just a honest mistake he made.
Geez, did 'desiree' go on and on and on about this marriage which didn't happen, as if it was the ultimate proof that mj fans depended upon to prove mj's innocence. Anyway, i thought jimmy WAS claiming he was married at neverland (to mj), he's probably hoping to use tmez's mistake in court to bolster his claim, lol.

Anyway, the whole mini novelette that desiree wrote to 'add colour' to the court complaint was super creepy to read,very victor guiterrez in it's unnecessarily lurid comments on the mj/jimmy relationship, shudders. Just a throwaway line from safechuck about watching some dodgy videos at the hideout, leads desiree to muse at length about all the possible child porn films they could have been watching, it's just plain disturbing. Glad to see the acknowledgement that the absence of child porn is a problem to the narrative of mj=pedo, so we get 'the chauffeur with the disappearing briefcase chocca with incriminating stuff' story. They'll have to claim a disappearing briefcase in 2003 as well.

Dear Jimmy,
Thank you for your letter. It was nice hearing from you again! I’ve been busy working on a new video for my album and have been really busy.
It was fun working with you on the Pepsi commercial! Maybe we can work together again.etc
To me this letter sounds like after the intital meeting at the pepsi shoot, that it's jimmy who has made the first move in trying to continue the relationship with mj. Mj sounds like he's explaining that he's been real busy so hasn't had time before now to get in touch with the boy.

In perhaps the most astounding revelation, James states Jackson had repeatedly confided in him what appears to be a significant clue behind Jackson’s short-lived, suspiciously-timed, and unsuccessful marriages: Jackson’s use of matrimony as a PR tool. “Decedent frequently told Plaintiff that he would need to get married to protect his public perception,” the Complaint says.
Well that's a bit of a bombshell. I'm sure that's the first time it's ever been suggested that mj's marriages were anything other than true love. :D
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm guessing that all this new info is in safechuck's complaint that we the public haven't had access to - i'm not sure why safechuck or gradstein would give some random blogger any evidence like the letter etc. I'd be interested in knowing how this blogger (desiree?)got access to these court docs. It seems only tmz have seen safechuck's complaint, all other media reports just parrot their initial article. Maybe you're right that safechuck is giving her/him some inside info, or maybe desiree managed to inveigle it out of tmz, idk.

well to be fair, there's no requirement that it needs to come from Safechuck/gradstein or TMZ. Probate documents aren't available online but copies are available if you make a request at clerk's office. I with the help of friends in LA got Estate's accounting documents that way twice. One of my LA friends go to the clerk's office, make a request, pay the copying costs and voila you have a hard copy of the court document. I then scanned them and turned them to a pdf. Some courts (I'm not sure if LA superior court also does this or not) also respond to mail requests - in which you make a request and send them a check and they mail you the documents, it takes time though.

So technically Desiree or anyone else could have gotten the documents themselves from the court.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

To me this letter sounds like after the intital meeting at the pepsi shoot, that it's jimmy who has made the first move in trying to continue the relationship with mj. Mj sounds like he's explaining that he's been real busy so hasn't had time before now to get in touch with the boy.
Isnt that the MO for all of these accusers? Jimmy sends a letter a year after the commercial. The Robsons meet him briefly after a contest in Australia and try a week to get hold of him and harass him for green card sponsorship. After they met when the car broke down, June Chandler claimed Jordan sent a letter after the Pepsi fire when he would have been about 3 yrs. old. And all of them were using Michael to get into show biz. (Not sure if that's what all the mothers wanted-I doubt it). They all pretty much hunted him down and pushed themselves on him.

Too bad the relationships Michael had with Emmanuel Lewis' family, the Casios, Alfonso Ribiero's family and others were all so normal and nice that it made him too trusting and naive and thought he could repeat it.
 
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respect77;4080461 said:
And what do you gather from D's "legal analysis" towards the end?
Mainly that desiree hasn't a clue what she's talking about and is better sticking to ruminating on child porn videos.

Because many victims were arguably too ‘well-groomed’ by their abusers to speak out, California law (CCP Section 340.1) recognizes that a victim’s cognition of a linkage between their psychological illness or injury and the sex abuse suffered is a crucial step in having the awareness to sue an abuser for damages, and it takes both time and often psychotherapeutic intervention to meet that litmus. If James Safechuck is to successfully file a late claim under Probate Code Section 9103, he would have to demonstrate: (a) that it was only with recent therapy — significantly after the administration of the Estate — that he could fully understand that the sexual abuse by Michael Jackson led to his “panic, depression, and anxiety”; and (b) that the delayed onset cognition of that abuse-injury linkage was due to Jackson’s brainwashing and threats that kept him silent.
This is wrong. This delayed discovery rule isn't to do with a late realisation of the 'linkage' of damage arising from sexual abuse. It's a late realisation that you've actually been sexually abused. In effect it's either you've repressed it as a memory, or you're unaware or ignorant of how your relationship was 'wrongful'. As you say, he's told his mum that mj was 'bad' and he had been abused by him back in 05, also when his son was born he's all worried after his relationship with mj about having pedophilic inclinations towards his child so he clearly knows those feelings are 'wrong' in 2010. Even if mj was alive, it would be too late, as you have to file within 3 yrs, but as mj is dead and you only have 60 days to file after getting knowledge, then it's just curtains for his claim.


I wonder if these are just D's own thoughts or is this the argument they try in Safechuck's second amended complaint? The lawyer desperately taking it upon herself that she confused the two cases (Robson/Safechuck) in her arguments?
Desiree is just writing nonsense in suggesting the lawyer is conflating the two cases. She/he doesn't seem to understand the issues involved in overcoming the timelimits to making a claim as this explains why wade/jimmy's lawyers are saying what they're saying. I suppose at least it shows that even desiree is recognising that their claims about wade and jimmy not 'understanding or acknowledging etc etc' don't make sense.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So technically Desiree or anyone else could have gotten the documents themselves from the court.

So only tmz could be bothered to get them? I guess Radaronline, ddimond etc aren't interested in this story.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Radar is way more interested in Robson. TMZ is only interested in reporting initial complaints and nothing else.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Radar is way more interested in Robson. TMZ is only interested in reporting initial complaints and nothing else.

Could be that they have a deal with the Robson camp.
 
LindavG;4080530 said:
Call me crazy, but an alarm and video cameras in the hall leading up the bedroom seems pretty standard for a famous multi-millionaire’s home, no?

Yes, it is. Especially for a multi-millionaire who had all kind of strangers walking around in his house all the time. The alarm system was made so sinister by the prosecution in 2005 (those who bring it up always forget to mention how it actually exonerated MJ - because Star claimed to have walked in on MJ and Gavin two times, so how come MJ did not notice the alarm ringing?) and it seems like both James and Wade try to stick to that narrative about the alarm system offered by the prosecution in 2005.

Same with the alcohol. How odd that before the Arvizos found MJ's alcohol no one ever claimed such a thing, not Jordan, not Francia (same with MJ's hetero porn), but now in the hindsight both Safechuck and Robson claim that (well, Robson "only" the porn). Yet, on the stand in 2005 Robson said he did not even know MJ owned such material.

All this just shows how he is trying to shape his allegations using elements from Chandler, Arvizo, Gutierrez's book, Anderson's book etc. I did not get why he had to throw in he showed me "children masturbating on film" when no such film was ever found in MJ's possession, but now I see that comes from Gutierrez's book. I guess that VG claimed that he "rented" such movies (as opposed to owning them) in order to explain why no such movie was found during the search. How lucky that MJ never had any such film in his home just when the searches happened. LOL.

And I also did not get why he had to throw in that whole marriage crap and now I see that it could be something that is inspired by the Chandler book (that story when according to Evan his younger son spent the night in the same room with MJ and Jordan and after that supposedly asked Evan if two men can marry). That and the very public story about MJ and Jimmy visiting a jewelry store together in 1989. I guess this is why he brought in jewelry and rings and marriage and whatnot.

[video=youtube;AI-6A_AIsZ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI-6A_AIsZ8[/video]

Also just notice how these stories evolve as they all build on the ones before them. For example, as I said, Jordan or Francia never claimed to have been shown any porn by Michael. That element first came up in the Arvizo allegations because the Arvizos found MJ's porn stash while they were rummaging through his room. During the search in 2003 the police also confiscated a couple of art photography books which had some nudes in them (both female and male). Those magazines and books were shown Wade on the stand. Now he claims that he was shown both porn magazines and books by MJ when he was a child. The same with James. He too claims he was shown hetero porn magazines AND art books with nudes. However, that again is a careless reading of the Arvizo story, since Gavin and Star never claimed to have been shown art books with nudes. Only hetero adult porn. But since the prosecution confiscated such books in 2003 now they find themselves in the narrartives of both Wade and James. But again that would make a patternless molester: he shows both porn and books with nudity to James and Wade, shows nothing to Jordan and Francia and then only porn to Gavin. That way the pattern does not make much sense. But when you know which allegation was made first and second and third and etc. then it does show the pattern of one always building on the one before it and how these things evolved, one from another...

Also the thing about the closet. That closet has been an obsession of the tabloid media and haters for a long time, even though no child ever claimed to have been molested there. Well, that is before Jimmy. It seems he is trying to live up to that expectation now.


This is ironic indeed but not for the reason the author thinks it is. It makes no sense for Michael to go to such measures to hide his bed-sharing from his own chambermaids but then freely and openly admit to this on national television, especially after he was accused of sexual molestation.

Exactly. They cannot seem to make up their mind about whether MJ was an extremely cunning molester (and that's why he never left any evidence behind based on which he could be caught) or a very careless one. MJ is described in this story as going lenghts to hide the fact that Jimmy never slept in his own bed, messing up in Jimmy's bed deliberately to make it look like it's been slept on. (I guess we can take it as an admission that the Quindoys did not tell the truth about the bed never seeming slept on. LOL.) Yet, this same guy has no problem talking about sharing bed with children on national television in 2003 and has no problem putting two kids on TV in 1993 talk about the bed-sharing. Also allegedly he has no problem being seen by Blanca Francia all the time sharing bed with Jimmy and other kids with a nude upper body (lower body being under covers). So where is the consistency in this?

Seriously, does this sound at all like the Michael the world knows? Throwing socks with spit on them to fans? Playing such a cruel joke on a child while “abusing” him? How depraved do you have to be to smear the reputation of a dead man like that?

Remember that book I talked about a couple of months ago, Conversations with a Pedophile? I read that book because Robson recommends it on his website saying it helped to give him an "insight" into his alleged "molester's" mind. I read it and there is nothing in it that is reminiscent of MJ, so what Wade was saying about it was BS. But I think it really gives "insight" - into what these people are reading to build their stories. And in that book the Pedophile who is interviewed talks about the fact that it was never really the sexual act that gave him the most pleasure but to see his victims being scared. (Pedophilia is about control, not about sex.) That's what gave him the kick. And that's why he started to make pornographic photos of them. Because being photographed while doing it made them very scared. I think this is Jimmy's attempt to bring in that kind of thing here. Only problem for him is that no child porn was ever found in MJ's possession - not about him, not about anyone else, so I guess he would have to explain the lack of photos somehow in case he would want to claim such a thing. So I guess this is what he came up with: MJ did scare him with "photography" - but it was only some kind of cruel prank, a "mock photography".

LindavG;4080531 said:
Shamelessly trying to drag Brett into this mess.

Yes, Brett is a big obsession of both Guiterrez and haters and the fact he features so prominently in Safechuck's story is yet another indication where he took his ideas from.

So first Michael is terrified that James might crack and talk but after meeting him a few times (while at work), he is so confident with his brainwashing techniques that he just drops Jimmy completely without a care in the world? Like I said, magical powers at work.

Amazing, isn't it?



MattyJam;4080533 said:
2. This article says Wade claims the abuse began in 1997 but I thought Wade had claimed MJ abused him the very first time he stayed at Neverland? Or did I read this wrong?

Wade's claim is that the abuse allegedly took place between 1990 and 1996 or 1997 for seven years.


ivy;4080535 said:
^^


edited to add: and I think this is what Desiree meant with the legal talk she posted. Regardless of how they label it a "repressed memory" claim works for Robson's story but it doesn't work for Safechuck's story.

I don't think it makes sense for Robson either. Not under these circumstances that were around MJ since 1993.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm guessing that all this new info is in safechuck's complaint that we the public haven't had access to - i'm not sure why safechuck or gradstein would give some random blogger any evidence like the letter etc. I'd be interested in knowing how this blogger (desiree?)got access to these court docs. It seems only tmz have seen safechuck's complaint, all other media reports just parrot their initial article. Maybe you're right that safechuck is giving her/him some inside info, or maybe desiree managed to inveigle it out of tmz, idk.

Yes, I read it again and I agree that she does not necessarily have to be in direct contact with Safechuck, it could all come from his complaint. However, Safechuck's complaint does include a lot of hater obesessions so I'm sure at the very least he used their websites for source material - plus hater's favourite books, eg. Gutierrez, Dimond etc. We know for a fact that D sent him/his wife links to her blog as early as in 2011.


This is wrong. This delayed discovery rule isn't to do with a late realisation of the 'linkage' of damage arising from sexual abuse. It's a late realisation that you've actually been sexually abused.

But this is what CCP 340.1 says:

340.1. (a) In an action for recovery of damages suffered as a
result of childhood sexual abuse, the time for commencement of the
action shall be within eight years of the date the plaintiff attains
the age of majority or within three years of the date the plaintiff
discovers or reasonably should have discovered that psychological
injury or illness occurring after the age of majority was caused by
the sexual abuse
, whichever period expires later, for any of the
following actions:

So there is indeed this thing there about the discovery of psychological illness being a result of child sexual abuse being the starting point. But that does not help him. He claims he discovered that his anxiety issues are supposedly liked to alleged abuse in May 2013. But he only filed a year later, not within 60 days (the three year given above is only valid for defendants who are alive).
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^

Even if we believe everything he says, Safechuck clearly hasn't come to the realization in 2013 or 2014. Even in his version he was aware MJ was a bad man in 2005, he told his mother he was abused but didn't tell her the specifics. Even in 2009, he knew MJ's death meant they won't be able to discuss and resolve their issues.

He is only claiming to just have realized it to get around the deadlines of filing a lawsuit. In my mind there's no ifs or buts about it. When compared Robson's case is a lot more clean with his breakdowns and realizations and his claim of not realizing it until then. Safechuck's claim is a mess.

edited to add: and I think this is what Desiree meant with the legal talk she posted. Regardless of how they label it a "repressed memory" claim works for Robson's story but it doesn't work for Safechuck's story.

I agree that James using this will not work because he told his mom that Michael was a bad person but Ivy what to say that Wade could be doing the same thing because he is using this to get around the statute of limitations and saying this is the reason why he could not file in time because he did not know this had happen to him.

In the bold makes a whole lot of sense to me the issues will never be solve so what was the point in bringing it out. Wade and James really though that the Estate was just going to swept this under the rug and move on not so,



Isnt that the MO for all of these accusers? Jimmy sends a letter a year after the commercial. The Robsons meet him briefly after a contest in Australia and try a week to get hold of him and harass him for green card sponsorship. After they met when the car broke down, June Chandler claimed Jordan sent a letter after the Pepsi fire when he would have been about 3 yrs. old. And all of them were using Michael to get into show biz. (Not sure if that's what all the mothers wanted-I doubt it). They all pretty much hunted him down and pushed themselves on him.

Too bad the relationships Michael had with Emmanuel Lewis' family, the Casios, Alfonso Ribiero's family and others were all so normal and nice that it made him too trusting and naive and thought he could repeat it.


I agree with you on this theses familes came after Michael not Michael going after them. Michael was that type of person who want to help so he did little did he know that these famlies would be a nightmare in his life so sad to see and for the good famlies that Michael met i wish he could have met more like that. Emmanuel has came out and said what they were saying about Michael was all lies not true his family love being with Michael and Michael loved being with them it just break your heart.
 
as for delayed discovery vs. 340.1 , allow me to copy La_cienega's post from LSA

Well, we can see why he's claiming he didn't "understand" it was wrong:

Prior to the 1990 amendments to C.C.P. 340.1, California courts all but refused to apply the delayed discovery doctrine to in childhood sexual abuse cases. It was not until the 1990 decision in Evans v. Eckleman, supra, that a California appellate court, while not deciding whether the discovery rule applied to the facts of the case, left open the possibility that the plaintiffs could amend their complaint, to invoke the rule, by alleging "unawareness" that the abuse was wrongful, or repression of the abuse.29

California courts have routinely followed the DeRose decision where the court distinguished two types of case fact patterns in reference to the delayed discovery rule. Plaintiffs who alleged complete repression of the molestation would be entitled to delayed accrual of the statute, while those who did not allege repression of the abuse, but instead argued that other factors had caused their delay in filing suit were not entitled to the rule.
In DeRose, the court held that the allegations within plaintiff's complaint, including that the abuse was "against plaintiff's will and without her consent" and that she "felt great fear," precluded an application of the discovery rule. (Id. at p. 1017)
DeRose was allegedly molested by her step-grandfather over an eight-year period, beginning when she was four years old. She filed suit some thirteen years after the last incident of abuse. The court, reviewing Section 340.1(d), declined to apply the discovery rule, stating that the statutory language "…does not mandate application of the delayed discovery doctrine in any particular case." (Id. at p. 1020) The legislative intent, the court reasoned, was to "avoid the implication" that the longer statutory period was a "rejection" of the discovery doctrine. (Id. at p. 1020)


Sexual Abuse & Delayed Discovery - California Abuse Victim Attorneys

Cases involving this discovered trauma thing and how they tend to get dismissed:
Whatever the context, the delayed discovery doctrine applies only when a plaintiff has not discovered all of the facts essential to the cause of action. Conversely, if the plaintiff has discovered all of the essential facts, the doctrine does not apply. In this case, the allegations of the complaint leave no doubt that DeRose was actually aware long ago of the facts necessary to state a cause of action against Carswell based upon the sexual assaults. In her complaint, DeRose alleged affirmatively that the assaults "were all committed against plaintiff's will and without her consent" and that, "[a]t the times of said sexual molestation, plaintiff felt great fear and acceded to defendant's acts due to her perceptions of his greater size and strength and his ability and intent to carry out his threats of harm." The immediate harm caused by the alleged assaults gave DeRose a right to sue at that time. (Sonbergh v. MacQuarrie (1952) 112 Cal. App. 2d 771, 773-774 [247 P.2d 133].)

DeRose argues that her cause of action did not accrue until she experienced later emotional harm and recognized its connection with the earlier [196 Cal. App. 3d 1018] assaults. There are, indeed, times when awareness of a wrongful act does not carry with it awareness of harm. That is true, for example, when an incorrect pharmaceutical prescription cannot be appreciated as tortious until it has caused harm. (See, e.g., G. D. Searle & Co. v. Superior Court, supra, 49 Cal. App. 3d 22.) [3] An assault, however, which by definition is perceived as unconsented to and offensive, causes harm as a matter of law. (Sonbergh v. MacQuarrie, supra, 112 Cal. App. 2d at pp. 773-774.) [2b] For us to hold that no cause of action accrued until 13 years after the assault would suggest, incorrectly, that a victim of sexual assault cannot sue unless and until there are delayed consequences.
If DeRose could and did allege that she repressed her memories of the sexual assaults until one year before filing her complaint, she might be able to invoke the delayed discovery rule. fn. 1 [4] While the assaults that DeRose has alleged caused serious harm as a matter of law, DeRose could not logically be charged with awareness of the harm if she had not been aware of the assaults. In fact, there are allegations in the complaint that might be read to suggest that this was the case. DeRose, however, both in the superior court and on appeal, disclaimed that interpretation of the complaint. While we must construe the complaint to state a cause of action, if possible, there is no rule that compels us to interpret the complaint to allege particular facts which the pleader disavows.

In the relevant portions of her complaint, DeRose alleges that Carswell's acts caused her to develop "psychological mechanisms" and "psychological illnesses" which "prevented her from knowing, recognizing and understanding the nature or extent of her injuries ... and the causal relationship between her present injuries and defendant's past acts." Elsewhere in her complaint, DeRose alleges that she failed to discover "the fact of her injuries and their cause." At the hearing on the demurrer, the superior court specifically discussed with DeRose's counsel the interpretation and effect of the complaint's delayed discovery allegations. Counsel's remarks made it clear that DeRose does not interpret her own complaint to allege that she had repressed her memories of the sexual assaults. "[Counsel]: And the medical literature we cited in the brief I think attests to the fact that there are times, frankly, and it's in the literature, where they're fn. 2 not even aware of the initial [196 Cal. App. 3d 1019] wrongful act after years of therapy. [¶] I recall -- The Court: That's not an issue here. [Counsel]: Not as alleged. Not as alleged."

Counsel's response, "[n]ot as alleged," naturally raised the question whether DeRose could make such allegations if afforded leave to amend. The court also asked this question, and counsel's response demonstrated that DeRose would not be able to make the necessary allegations. "The Court: She was aware of the fact she was injured? [Counsel]: Correct. [¶] Well, she was aware she was molested. And she was aware of the wrongful act. [¶] It's a tort, and we are talking four elements here. We are talking wrongful -- The Court: She was aware of the wrongful act. She was aware of the incidents that took place. [Counsel]: True." Counsel went on to explain the very different theory underlying this action: "But the key thing is the other element of the tort, namely proximate causation, we are saying that it was not until the plaintiff began receiving psychological therapy that she began to make the connection and was able to make the connection between her present injuries and the earlier misconduct."
On appeal, DeRose's position has not changed. She does not suggest that she repressed the memories of the sexual assaults. [5] [2d] Instead, she argues that, "although appellant here was aware of the repeated sexual molestation that occurred, it is alleged that she was unaware of the later serious and ongoing injuries that have plagued her in her adult life until of [sic] one year of the filing of the complaint." fn. 3
As a matter of law, for the reasons discussed above, DeRose's allegations do not justify application of the delayed discovery doctrine. Because she has disclaimed the ability to make the allegations that might justify the doctrine's application, the court properly sustained the demurrer.

DeRose v. Carswell (1987) 196 Cal. App. 3d 1011 [242 Cal. Rptr. 368] :: Volume 196 :: Cal. App. 3d :: California Case Law :: US Case Law :: US Law :: Justia

In Snyder, supra, plaintiff's sexual abuser was a former Boy Scout leader who allegedly sexually assaulted plaintiff over a three-year period. Plaintiff's complaint was filed in 1985, a little more than four years after the last incident of abuse, and several months after plaintiff's 19th birthday. Plaintiff's delay in filing suit, he alleged, was due to "embarrassment, humiliation, fear and sorrow" over the abuse. (Id. at p. 1322)
In opposing defendant's motion for summary judgment based upon the one-year statute of limitations (Section 340[3]), plaintiff presented the declaration of a psychiatrist who opined that embarrassment, humiliation and fear were "byproducts of post-traumatic syndrome" which explained plaintiff's delay in divulging the abuse earlier. (Id. at p. 1322) In refusing to apply the discovery rule, the court emphasized that plaintiff had established in his own declaration that he had suffered "appreciable harm" before his eighteenth birthday. (Id. at p. 1324) The statute began running on Snyder's eighteenth birthday since all of the facts essential to plaintiff's cause of action were known by him at that time. (Id. at p. 1324)'

Basically, if you state you experience something traumatic then you will obviously be going through trauma as it's happening and later on. You don't just "discover" that later on.

This court case actually gives more validity to repressed memories in that way - which is funny because Harvey Levine said the same thing, that repressed memories made more sense.

But now it makes sense why he's claiming he didn't understand it was wrong until last year. It's his way of trying to circumvent the statutes.

The court stopped short, however, of a wholesale extension of the delayed discovery rule to cases involving adults who sue for injuries suffered as a result of childhood sexual abuse. In order to successfully argue that the discovery rule applies, the court stated:
"For plaintiffs to prevail they must be able to show they remained unaware of, and had no reason to suspect, the wrongfulness of the conduct until a time less than three years before the action was filed." (Id. at p. 1619) (Emphasis added)



Anyway, that's made all the more ridiculous with him having testified about it twice before.

Therefore, where the victim does not purport to have repressed the abuse itself, but instead alleges only to have recently discovered the extent of their psychological injuries from the abuse, tolling of the statute does not occur. (Evans, supra, at p. 1620)
Doesn't sound good for him, doesn't sound like it would make it to a hearing.

He needs to go back to the repressed angle.

Reading this makes it all the more obvious how this is orchestrated. He made sure to say he didn't understand it until 1 year ago, which is what he needs to legally claim. He's trying to make this case work.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy i do not see how Wade can make this case work in his own words he said Michael never never sexual abuse him he testify to that. So Ivy when you mean go back to the repressed angle what do you mean?
 
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