Latest on MJJC

Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

Lily said:
Was it a message to his princess? :girl_sigh:

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You give me BUTTERFLIES inside.......:girl_in_love:
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My post on the butterfly disappeared... :(
 
:wild: I loooooooooooove "Beautiful Girl"! I think I love it because of that unique sound. You're right queen g, it does sound like something from the past kinda like "The Girl Form Ipanema" or something unique like that. It is just so unique and refreshing!
 
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MysteriousPhoenix said:
:wild: I loooooooooooove "Beautiful Girl"! I think I love it because of that unique sound. You're right queen g, it does sound like something from the past kinda like "The Girl Form Eponema" or something unique like that. It is just so unique and refreshing!
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:scratch: The Girl From Ipanema????



The girl from Ipanema -Tom Jobim

Composers: Antonio Carlos Jobim / Vinicius de Moraes / Norman Gimbel

Tall and tan and young and lovely
The girl from Ipanema goes walking
And when she passes, each one she passes goes "a-a-ah!"
When she walks she's like a samba that
Swings so cool and sways so gentle,
That when she passes, each one she passes goes "a-a-ah!"
Oh, but I watch her so sadly
How can I tell her I love her?
Yes, I would give my heart gladly
But each day when she walks to the sea
She looks straight ahead not at me
Tall and tan and young and lovely
The girl from Ipanema goes walking
And when she passes I smile, but she doesn't see
She just doesn't see
No she doesn't see



*The history of the song "The Girl From Ipanema":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_from_Ipanema
 
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summer said:
GOOD ONE!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
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:lol: I'm so sleepy I'm getting goofy now LOL

queen g said:
Summer, thanks for sharing your thoughts; good stuff!



I remember a recent post of yours where you quoted a lyric from Beautiful Girl, so yeah, it's staying in your mind, isn't it? :) I wish AllForMj was here. I know she felt he very much DID sound in love there and I'd like to hear again why she felt that way...it's a nice contrast to your view. I personally don't know if I could identify that in his voice either way. I know I really like that song, Beautiful Girl, and I find interesting his choice of music style that's going on in that song...it almost seems blue grass to me? Something...something familiar sounding in my past...somehow, somewhere, hmmm, I dunno, where I heard music like that, but I like the sound of it in that song.

So you think he sounds more in love, Lily, in his verse in Hold My Hand? How about For All Time? What are your thoughts on that one?
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Yes Beautiful Girl has been stuck for a couple days now :ph34r: I'm not sure why it sounds so different to me, he sounds like he's longing for love to me? In Hold My Hand he sounds more "if you jusssstttt" feeling an intense love.....or maybe I'm delusional right now from sleepiness :lol:

queen g said:
Can you wait until Christmas for that? :santa:
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Awww thank you about my sea turtle, I had fun painting that one. :D

Now about that gift :cheeky:.....I'll wait forever.........................


Good night ladies I'm falling asleep at the computer lol, it's been fun..see you soon...............:sleeping:
 
queen g said:
So then...would he have done best with a mousey little thing?
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Ha! Ha! I can't see that either!


queen g said:
I detect some condescension? lol.
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Nope! I just really, really like the picture! O.k., if pinching his cheeks offends him, I will just give him a hug!

Thanks ash, I just fixed the spelling of "Ipanema."
 
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Somebody speak in Tom Jobim, Girl from Ipanema?? :wild:
I love Tom Jobim, today I was listening Wave!! so beautiful!! :wub:

Ash:Michael, please, do not look that way to me... My heart can not take it! lol! :wub:
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It's truth!!! hahahaha I loveeeeeeeee:wub:
 
ashtanga said:
First, she should know who she is relating. A relationship with a celebrity is not easy. It would need to be like Michael and be very, very, very strong. People have flaws and never, never change people our way. We must learn to live with the defects and mostly always understand. This is not impossible and difficult when there is a sincere and true love between two people. :cheeky:

Princesses and Prince Charming does not exist in real life, only the stories of fairy tales. :)







This is also simple... -_- Just find the right person to be with us. God is in charge. When you find the soul mate and these two people truly love, it is hard not to give this relationship. The basis of any relationship, is dialogue (and true love), if that does not exist between the couple, never will work. Nothing is difficult and complicated life, people who are. People put obstacles and difficulties at all and therefore in the end nothing can succeed. :)
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Very true, I agree. She would need to know what she was getting into. And also even though both need to "compromise", she would also have to understand and accept that there are some things Michael CAN'T do and can't compromise with. You know, he IS the most famous person on earth...he can't change that and it's not really his fault that he can't go anywhere. So if she were like "Either we go out and go shopping in a supermarket, etc. like normal people or I'm OUT!" (okay that was a stupid example but I hope you get what I mean). You know, she would have to understand what kind of things come with his fame and that there are safety concerns and the paparazzi lurking around, etc. And also that SHE would be part of it all, whether she wanted or not, and that she most likely would need to make huge adjustments and probably learn to "watch out" what she tells and to whom because before it may have just been someone else in the office who heard what was going on in her relationship if she told a "friend"...but with Michael it could easily end up the WHOLE WORLD knowing if she told the wrong person. You know, if she could not understand the privacy concerns or was not willing to adjust, it would never work. Or even with another celebrity...if both were stubborn and like "No...MY career is more important and you HAVE to go to this event with me and promote this thing I am promoting for this and this company or else I'm gone!", etc. Like I've said before, I really don't envy Michael because it must have been SO DIFFICULT to find someone because there were so many things that needed to be considered. I mean, not only did it have to be someone whom he found attractive and sweet and that he really liked...she also had to be someone who was not interested in his money or fame or trying to use him to get their own career going...but at the same time it had to be someone who also understood the stuff that came with his fame and that even though both need to compromise, certain things Michael could NOT compromise with. And I actually think travelling is part of it...He said he was not an easy person to live with because of the travelling part, but I think it should have been clear as day to ANYONE who got involved with him that travelling a LOT would be a necessary part. I mean, he was an entertainer who did tours, concerts, charity stuff, short films, recorded albums...how can you expect him to do all that in one city? :doh: :lol: Maybe MJ thought it would be a problem, but I can't see how it could have been because, like I said, it should have been clear to ANYONE from the very beginning that it is going to HAVE to be part of their lives. Even without MJ telling it. Unless you had spent your life under a rock and didn't know who he was and knew nothing about him and his life. :mello: :lol: So I guess certain things were not up for discussion and who ever was to get involved with MJ should have known that before it went any further. She should have known what she was getting herself into and that certain things she just HAS to accept or it won't work. And it's not MJ being selfish, but just because that is how his life is and there just isn't another way, even if MJ wanted. :scratch:

Oh and I love "Girl From Ipanema" too! :yes: What about Barry Manilow's "Copacabana"? I looove that one! :lol: "Her name was Lola...she was a show girl...with yellow feathers in her hair and her dress cut down to there..."...."Music and passion were always the fashion at the copaaaa...they fell in love....copaaa...copacabaaaanaaaaa"...:lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_6lI2Dn1Y I love the instrumental part (from 3:16 on :lol:)!!! :lol:
 
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summer said:
Very true, I agree. She would need to know what she was getting into. And also even though both need to "compromise", she would also have to understand and accept that there are some things Michael CAN'T do and can't compromise with. You know, he IS the most famous person on earth...he can't change that and it's not really his fault that he can't go anywhere. So if she were like "Either we go out and go shopping in a supermarket, etc. like normal people or I'm OUT!" (okay that was a stupid example but I hope you get what I mean). You know, she would have to understand what kind of things come with his fame and that there are safety concerns and the paparazzi lurking around, etc. And also that SHE would be part of it all, whether she wanted or not, and that she most likely would need to make huge adjustments and probably learn to "watch out" what she tells and to whom because before it may have just been someone else in the office who heard what was going on in her relationship if she told a "friend"...but with Michael it could easily end up the WHOLE WORLD knowing if she told the wrong person. You know, if she could not understand the privacy concerns or was not willing to adjust, it would never work. Or even with another celebrity...if both were stubborn and like "No...MY career is more important and you HAVE to go to this event with me and promote this thing I am promoting for this and this company or else I'm gone!", etc. Like I've said before, I really don't envy Michael because it must have been SO DIFFICULT to find someone because there were so many things that needed to be considered. I mean, not only did it have to be someone whom he found attractive and sweet and that he really liked...she also had to be someone who was not interested in his money or fame or trying to use him to get their own career going...but at the same time it had to be someone who also understood the stuff that came with his fame and that even though both need to compromise, certain things Michael could NOT compromise with. And I actually think travelling is part of it...He said he was not an easy person to live with because of the travelling part, but I think it should have been clear as day to ANYONE who got involved with him that travelling a LOT would be a necessary part. I mean, he was an entertainer who did tours, concerts, charity stuff, short films, recorded albums...how can you expect him to do all that in one city? :doh: :lol: Maybe MJ thought it would be a problem, but I can't see how it could have been because, like I said, it should have been clear to ANYONE from the very beginning that it's is going to HAVE to be part of their lives. Even without MJ telling it. Unless you had spent your life under a rock and didn't know who he was and knew nothing about him and his life. :mello: :lol: So I guess certain things were not up for discussion and who ever was to get involved with MJ should have known that before it went any further. She should have known what she was getting herself into and that certain things she just HAS to accept or it won't work. And it's not MJ being selfish, but just because that is how his life is and there just isn't another way, even if MJ wanted. :scratch:

Oh and I love "Girl From Ipanema" too! :yes: What about Barry Manilow's "Copacabana"? I looove that one! :lol: "Her name was Lola...she was a show girl...with yellow feathers in her hair and her dress cut down to there..."...."Music and passion were always the fashion at the copaaaa...they fell in love....copaaa...copacabaaaanaaaaa"...:lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_6lI2Dn1Y I love the instrumental part (from 3:16 on :lol:)!!! :lol:
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You have completed what I said. If there is true love accompanied by understanding and dialogue (and true love), never will work. Relationship with a celebrity is delicate. Why the person is surrounded by people and it is very difficult to trust someone 100%. You're afraid, "she is that person is with me that really loves me or with me for who I am and what I have?" How totally trust this person? There are people who wear masks and hide their true character and this is very dangerous. Unfortunately, in the world there are bad people. For any celebrity that is always difficult to see: find someone who is totally honest and transparent with you. But not impossible... :)


*You would love Copacana, Ipanema and everywhere in Rio de Janeiro. :wild:
 
ashtanga said:
*You would love Copacana, Ipanema and everywhere in Rio de Janeiro. :wild:
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My dad went to Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paolo years ago (1989) and stayed for two weeks. He showed a lot of pictures when he came back and it was really beautiful (well, some areas were less beautiful and he told me how he and his business partners had bought some kids on the streets clothes because it broke their hearts to see them in rags. So they asked their guide if it's okay to give them stuff and then just walked into a store and bought some clothes, etc. for them.) And he brought back several albums of Brazilian music too. When ever I hear that sort of music it reminds me of my dad. I was not THAT happy with his trip to Brazil back then because it was exactly when my Confirmation was (a religious thing) and he was not there because of his business trip. I was like "How can you go on a business trip during my CONFIRMATION?? :rant: It only happens once in a person's life time!". :( But then on the other hand I knew Brazil is an amazing country and it's a "once in a lifetime" opportunity also to get a more or less "paid vacation" to Brazil, so I was happy for him too, even though I was upset that he won't be at my Confirmation. But my dad really loved Brazil. But he said it was crazy how HUGE the cities were. :lol:
 
summer said:
My dad went to Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paolo years ago (1989) and stayed for two weeks. He showed a lot of pictures when he came back and it was really beautiful (well, some areas were less beautiful and he told me how he and his business partners had bought some kids on the streets clothes because it broke their hearts to see them in rags. So they asked their guide if it's okay to give them stuff and then just walked into a store and bought some clothes, etc. for them.) And he brought back several albums of Brazilian music too. When ever I hear that sort of music it reminds me of my dad. I was not THAT happy with his trip to Brazil back then because it was exactly when my Confirmation was (a religious thing) and he was not there because of his business trip. I was like "How can you go on a business trip during my CONFIRMATION?? :rant: It only happens once in a person's life time!". :( But then on the other hand I knew Brazil is an amazing country and it's a "once in a lifetime" opportunity also to get a more or less "paid vacation" to Brazil, so I was happy for him too, even though I was upset that he won't be at my Confirmation. But my dad really loved Brazil. But he said it was crazy how HUGE the cities were. :lol:
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Brazil has a "ugly side" as anywhere in the world and we fight every day, we make it possible for this aspect of our country to be healed! If you have the opportunity to one day come to Brazil, you got to know that you'll never regret it! Not only because of the nature beauty blessed by God, but because we Brazilians are very receptive, warm, happy, friends! And even if we are full of problems, we are always seeing the bright side of things! Because that is how life should be! We must not turn its back on for the problems, but we should see what's good in everything! ;)
 
Originally Posted by MysteriousPhoenix
Well, both the "Dangerous" girl and "Dirty Diana" are both similar, they are both seductresses, but I don't get that impression from the "Who Is It" girl. She just left his life for one reason or another. Two completely different things.
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That's true. A lot of people don't notice these nuances.


queen g said:
Except where they both took his money and his time...

(I love bringing things full circle)
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well, since you do, you might like to notice that this is another one of those nuances that goes unnoticed inthat when you watch MJ singing it whether on the Who Is It short film or on Oprah, his lips show that he's saying, "I gave my money, I gave my/her time" (whichever one chooses lol cause its beside the point for now) and the only reason I point that out is because it really doesn't necessarily mean she 'took' his money or his time :)cheeky: doncha just miss me to no end? :giggle: miss u too LOL remember feel/will/feel/will?? LOL) .... I know it may seem a bit nit picky but its just a distinguishing nuance imho. :)

Speaking of nuances and the song Dangerous, it was pointed out some time back on MJNO, by some of those guys who study the music and the sessions and such in depth, that the song Dangerous is a revamp of the song, Streetwalker, same beat and rythem, different lyrics and story and when I listened very carefully I was blown away because I could see what they were saying and yet Streetwalker was completely unrecognizable. It made me wonder if he changed the song because perhaps the subject (girl) in the song maybe "changed" on him, or put more plainly, whether this one who he wanted to "come so easy" may have turned out to have made him feel that she was "dangerous" instead and he made a whole story out of it? :scratch: :giggle: or not

but the girl in Who Is It, he seems to be upset with her, angry with her (maybe... dare I say, unreasonably?) for going away without an explanation. Based on the lyrics, we don't know if that girl did anything wrong at all, do we?
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to me what's even more unreasonable (than for MJ to make all the 'assumptions' "brother", "friend of mine" or that its someone else at all) is that many listeners assume this is the case based on the images they get from those lyrics, when it is a song about him being clueless of what happened ... but he seemed to have revamped those assumptions on the next album because "you never said goodbye" is now met with a lot of compassion so it seems by "your burdens I will bear" which indicates he figured out that she had sorrows of her own unrelated to him) at any rate yes ... I find that kind of interesting ... not to mention the short film and the song are totally not related .. oh well...tangent sorry

Oh and I love "Girl From Ipanema" too! :yes: What about Barry Manilow's "Copacabana"? I looove that one! :lol:
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I love Girl from Ipanema too ever since I was a kid! I always changed the lyrics to fit the fact that I'm a girl :giggle:

my favorite Rio song is, "when my baby smiles at me I go to RIO

- de GEN-E-RO! :giggle: love that

Justus I remember your post and it was very poingnant and after I posted my wish that Shabuya and MP would repost those thoughts I left for the day then remembered that I'd left you out, but yes, your points were well made and I agree 100% with everything you said. I feel its what MJ really wants folks to be focused on. :yes:

When I first heard Beautiful Girl it reminded me of something from a Gene Kelly movie like Singing In the Rain. I could just see MJ on a street alone in front of "her" house just singing that song like a soliloquy, swinging himself around a light post as he sings, or like On the Street Where You Live, from My Fair Lady. That old fashioned serenading sound. Like he's talking to himself out loud and decided to share it with us.
 
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STATEofSHOCK said:
That's true. A lot of people don't notice these nuances.


well, since you do, you might like to notice that this another one of those nuances that go unnoticed inthat when you watch MJ singing it whether on the Who Is It short film or on Oprah, his lips show that he's saying, "I gave my money, I gave my/her time" (whichever one chooses lol cause its beside the point for now) and the only reason I point that out is because it really doesn't necessarily mean she 'took' his money or his time
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Hey! Excellent point there, SoS! In one song, she took and in the other song, he gave! Seems like a subtle difference, yet it makes all the difference in the world!


STATEofSHOCK said:
... to me what's even more unreasonable (than for MJ to make all the 'assumptions' "brother", "friend of mine" or that its someone else at all) is that many listeners assume this is the case based on the images they get from those lyrics, when it is a song about him being clueless of what happened ... but he seemed to have revamped those assumptions on the next album because "you never said goodbye" is now met with a lot of compassion so it seems by "your burdens I will bear" which indicates he figured out that she had sorrows of her own unrelated to him) at any rate yes ... I find that kind of interesting ... not to mention the short film and the song are totally not related .. oh well...tangent sorry
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What's so interesting to me about the song "You Are Not Alone" is the fact that he didn't write it. It's like it took a third party coming in (R. Kelly in this case) to help him see that.
 
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MysteriousPhoenix said:
Hey! Excellent point there, SoS! In one song, she took and in the other song, he gave! Seems like a subtle difference, yet it makes all the difference in the world!:yes:
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It really does :yes:
and its funny because its as subtle as a hairline

I've noticed that MJ's music has to be listened to very VERY carefully

he's so slick with it :giggle:
 
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STATEofSHOCK said:
That's true. A lot of people don't notice these nuances.


well, since you do, you might like to notice that this another one of those nuances that go unnoticed inthat when you watch MJ singing it whether on the Who Is It short film or on Oprah, his lips show that he's saying, "I gave my money, I gave my/her time" (whichever one chooses lol cause its beside the point for now) and the only reason I point that out is because it really doesn't necessarily mean she 'took' his money or his time :)cheeky: doncha just miss me to no end? :giggle: miss u too LOL remember feel/will/feel/will?? LOL) .... I know it may seem a bit nit picky but its just a distinguishing nuance imho. :)

Speaking of nuances and the song Dangerous, it was pointed out some time back on MJNO, by some of those guys who study the music and the sessions and such in depth, that the song Dangerous is a revamp of the song, Streetwalker, same beat and rythem, different lyrics and story and when I listened very carefully I was blown away because I could see what they were saying and yet Streetwalker was completely unrecognizable. It made me wonder if he changed the song because perhaps the subject (girl) in the song maybe "changed" on him, or put more plainly, whether this one who he wanted to "come so easy" may have turned out to have made him feel that she was "dangerous" instead and he made a whole story out of it? :scratch: :giggle: or not

to me what's even more unreasonable (than for MJ to make all the 'assumptions' "brother", "friend of mine" or that its someone else at all) is that many listeners assume this is the case based on the images they get from those lyrics, when it is a song about him being clueless of what happened ... but he seemed to have revamped those assumptions on the next album because "you never said goodbye" is now met with a lot of compassion so it seems by "your burdens I will bear" are indicating he knew she had sorrows of her own unrelated to him) at any rate yes ... I find that kind of interesting ... not to mention the short film and the song are totally not related .. oh well...tangent sorry

I love Girl from Ipanema too ever since I was a kid! I always changed the lyrics to fit the fact that I'm a girl :giggle:

my favorite Rio song is, "when my baby smiles at me I go to RIO

- de GEN-E-RO! :giggle: love that

Justus I remember your post and it was very poingnant and after I posted my wish that Shabuya and MP would repost those thoughts I left for the day then remembered that I'd left you out, but yes, your points were well made and I agree 100% with everything you said. I feel its what MJ really wants folks to be focused on. :yes:

When I first heard Beautiful Girl it reminded me of something from a Gene Kelly movie like Singing In the Rain. I could just see MJ on a street alone in front of "her" house just singing that song like a soliloquy, swinging himself around a light post as he sings, or like On the Street Where You Live, from My Fair Lady. That old fashioned serenading sound. Like he's talking to himself out loud and decided to share it with us.
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Aaaah, now why did you have to go mention Singing In The Rain and Gene Kelly! :lol: :lol: Singing In The Rain is my FAVORITE movie of ALL TIME!!!! I have seen it a MILLION times but I could still watch it over and over and OVER again! :lol: :lol: I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE it!! :wub::wub::wub: And I love Gene Kelly movies....there's so much ROMANCE in the movies. Real romance...not the vulgar kind you get these days, with the "Hey baby!" *slap butt* but the subtle, sweet romance. :wub: The real old-fashioned "gentleman-like"..."courtship" type. :wub: You know...sort of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqsrVQfNYPc :wub: :lol: Or here's another scene I love from Summer Stock: (Watch from about 3:00 on..Can't you totally picture MJ talking about show business in that one, instead of Gene. :lol:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NNsD7qbJis :yes: Actually talking about romance and "cheaters" and "groupies" and Gene Kelly...I read this in a book about Gene Kelly ("A life of dance and dreams" by Alvin Yudkoff) and I loved it about him:

"But from the start he was not one to take advantage of his power in his relationships with aspiring dance partners or students and did his best to discourage any attitudes of adoration. He had already observed too many club owners using casting-couch maneuvors and promises as a lure to sexual involvement. His own up-bringing with his mother and sisters had fostered an attitude of old-fashioned gallantry which was to stay with him all his life, despite constant temptations and a few regrettable relapses."

Also, there were a lot of things that kind of reminded me of Michael too..Like this part:

"It was by no means the first time he demonstrated his extraordinary affinity for working with children, his gift for surrounding an activity with an athmosphere of fun laughs and adventure."...."It was something right out of the Pied Piper, the way the kids followed him around, would try anything he wanted them to try.". :)

Anyways...not sure what my point was, but you mentioning Gene Kelly got my attention! :cheers: :lol:

P.S. Check out Gene Kelly's feet in the Summer Stock video...Notice anything familiar? :D (Hint: it's 3 things)
 
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^ :yes: I love Gene Kelly too!! Great GREAT stuff! :) and I TOTALLY know what you mean about the similiarities. Oh you have made me want to watch some Gene Kelly movies now!!! :giggle: Thanks for posting.

:scratch: did Beautiful Girl not remind you of a Gene Kelly movie too when you first heard it? :huh:

:) it so did me
MysteriousPhoenix said:
Hey! Excellent point there, SoS! In one song, she took and in the other song, he gave! Seems like a subtle difference, yet it makes all the difference in the world!

What's so interesting to me about the song "You Are Not Alone" is the fact that he didn't write it. It's like it took a third party coming in (R. Kelly in this case) to help him see that.
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Yes, it is interesting. I read that R. Kelly had submitted another song to MJ - something with a very different type of sound and 'story' - and MJ listened to it only once and gave it back to him and told him it wasn't what he was looking for and that R.K. resubmitted what turned out to be the YANA we know.

I think I read that in Michael Jackson the Solo Years by Chris Cadman and Craig Halstead. If I recall correctly from my conversation with Chris (a few years ago ... 2006 or 7 ... ) Adrian Grant had something to do with it as well, I don't recall if he did the forward or reviewed it, assisted with it or what, but Chris sent me a copy out of kindness and I read it - it's very interesting - (also Michael Jackson The Early Years) full of all kinds of session details. His latest is For the Record - all about the music. I keep saying I'm going to get it and keep forgetting. (can read about Adrian Grant here : http://www.mjworld.net/news/2009/05/28/interview-with-adrian-grant/ )

Chris and Craig are both avid fans among those I had mentioned who had researched the sessions and such. He had been a member here and still may be - I just can't recall his username right now.

:scratch: At least I'm pretty sure that's where I read that - its so late and I'm feeling kind of loopy now - hope I'm not getting it mixed up with something else like maybe ... :scratch: can't imagine what LOL!! at any rate, its easy enough to look it up once I unpack the book from storage in a few weeks. I met Chris on a forum called the MJ Vault which i used to belong to and I may have read it on there because that kind of thing was what The Vault was all about . . . but yes, that is indeed interesting. R. Kelly also wrote Cry which I never would have dreamed was written by anyone else but MJ. Its so him...his philosophy and all, to a T. but I do believe the books are worth checking out. :)

Apparantly R. Kelly was very good at 'channelling' for MJ - that takes a very special talent :yes:
 
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summer said:
Very true, I agree. She would need to know what she was getting into. And also even though both need to "compromise", she would also have to understand and accept that there are some things Michael CAN'T do and can't compromise with. You know, he IS the most famous person on earth...he can't change that and it's not really his fault that he can't go anywhere. So if she were like "Either we go out and go shopping in a supermarket, etc. like normal people or I'm OUT!" (okay that was a stupid example but I hope you get what I mean). You know, she would have to understand what kind of things come with his fame and that there are safety concerns and the paparazzi lurking around, etc. And also that SHE would be part of it all, whether she wanted or not, and that she most likely would need to make huge adjustments and probably learn to "watch out" what she tells and to whom because before it may have just been someone else in the office who heard what was going on in her relationship if she told a "friend"...but with Michael it could easily end up the WHOLE WORLD knowing if she told the wrong person. You know, if she could not understand the privacy concerns or was not willing to adjust, it would never work. Or even with another celebrity...if both were stubborn and like "No...MY career is more important and you HAVE to go to this event with me and promote this thing I am promoting for this and this company or else I'm gone!", etc. Like I've said before, I really don't envy Michael because it must have been SO DIFFICULT to find someone because there were so many things that needed to be considered. I mean, not only did it have to be someone whom he found attractive and sweet and that he really liked...she also had to be someone who was not interested in his money or fame or trying to use him to get their own career going...but at the same time it had to be someone who also understood the stuff that came with his fame and that even though both need to compromise, certain things Michael could NOT compromise with. And I actually think travelling is part of it...He said he was not an easy person to live with because of the travelling part, but I think it should have been clear as day to ANYONE who got involved with him that travelling a LOT would be a necessary part. I mean, he was an entertainer who did tours, concerts, charity stuff, short films, recorded albums...how can you expect him to do all that in one city? :doh: :lol: Maybe MJ thought it would be a problem, but I can't see how it could have been because, like I said, it should have been clear to ANYONE from the very beginning that it is going to HAVE to be part of their lives. Even without MJ telling it. Unless you had spent your life under a rock and didn't know who he was and knew nothing about him and his life. :mello: :lol: So I guess certain things were not up for discussion and who ever was to get involved with MJ should have known that before it went any further. She should have known what she was getting herself into and that certain things she just HAS to accept or it won't work. And it's not MJ being selfish, but just because that is how his life is and there just isn't another way, even if MJ wanted. :scratch:

Oh and I love "Girl From Ipanema" too! :yes: What about Barry Manilow's "Copacabana"? I looove that one! :lol: "Her name was Lola...she was a show girl...with yellow feathers in her hair and her dress cut down to there..."...."Music and passion were always the fashion at the copaaaa...they fell in love....copaaa...copacabaaaanaaaaa"...:lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_6lI2Dn1Y I love the instrumental part (from 3:16 on :lol:)!!! :lol:
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Just regarding the bold part. One can know in their head how it may be and what things would have to change, but until one experiences it, can they ever really know? We can all think we'd love to be his girlfriend or wife or what not, but till we actually experienced it, how would we even know? There are so many things in life that you could have a preconceived notion of how it will be and if you'd enjoy it or hate it, but as mom always told me about liking and trying new food, you'll never know until you try it. So we had to take one bite, then we could leave it or love it. Strange analogy I suppose but it can relate to any part of life. Until you try something, you can only guess how it will be.

I also wanted to tell you Summer, that I love the Summer Stock snippet you posted. Really enjoyed watching that.
 
Ape said:
Just regarding the bold part. One can know in their head how it may be and what things would have to change, but until one experiences it, can they ever really know? We can all think we'd love to be his girlfriend or wife or what not, but till we actually experienced it, how would we even know? There are so many things in life that you could have a preconceived notion of how it will be and if you'd enjoy it or hate it, but as mom always told me about liking and trying new food, you'll never know until you try it. So we had to take one bite, then we could leave it or love it. Strange analogy I suppose but it can relate to any part of life. Until you try something, you can only guess how it will be.
I also wanted to tell you Summer, that I love the Summer Stock snippet you posted. Really enjoyed watching that.
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I agree that one can't know what the RELATIONSHIP in itself is like without getting to know the person first and seeing if you get along, etc. What I meant though with the MJ travelling and moving a lot part were fundamental differences like moving vs.not moving, kids vs.no kids, working vs. staying at home, etc. You know that it was OBVIOUS to the outside world that he was always "on the go", so THAT part should have never come as a "surprise" to anyone. I mean, who knows, maybe MJ could have "settled down" and decided to live the rest of his life day after day, month after month, year after year, in the same house/city/country. Who knows. BUT....in MY opinion that would be wishful thinking on her part. You can HOPE he'll do that...but if you look at his life, it doesn't look like he stays in one place much. Which is why I said that it should come as no surprise to ANYONE that he moves around a lot. And that way I think she could not go "Well, I love you but either you stay in this place for the rest of your life or I'm out", because it should have already been clear to her from the beginning that he moves around a lot. And she can of course wish and hope that he'll change that, but if he doesn't, she can't really blame him. Because she should have known what she was getting into to. Sort of like when people have a relationship with someone even though there are things that completely irritate them and are complete "deal breakers" and "no go's" for them, and they still marry that person thinking "Oh he'll change. Give me a few months and I'll change that." Or they think "Well if he LOVES me...he'll change that and do what I want." You know what I mean? I only brought the moving around part up because I read MJ said he would be so "difficult to live with" bcase of that, but I think it would have only been difficult to someone who would absolutely NOT want to travel a lot or live in different places. If one was like that, yes it woudl be VERY tough. But at the same time , if one was like that, I'd wonder what that person was doing with MJ and how that person was planning on making that relationship work? If she doesn't want to move and he HAS to travel a lot because of work and he WANTS to move around a lot. How will that ever work? Especially if neither of them are into long distance relationships. :scratch: :lol: Sort of same thing if you know the other one wants kids and the other one ABSOLUTELY does NOT...how will that work in the long run? You can hope you'll be able to change that person's mind, but if it doesn't happen, can you blame the other person if you knew from the beginning what their opinion was? (I mean, if you know from the beginning how they feel. Not them telling you one thing and then changing their mind after wards or lying you about it). Or if you knew you wanted to work after having kids and he'd be totally against it and would want his wife to stay home...how would that one work? Unless you would give in and stay home but then be unhappy and bitter about it and blame him for it or keep working and then fight about it constantly because he was unhappy. How could that ever work and be a harmonius relationship? (If one of them can imagine "giving in" then there is no problem, I'm talking about when you KNOW you can NOT imagine your life without and know you could never be truly happy if you gave in.)I know it's not "romantic" to think that way, but I do believe that in order for a relationship to work you have to be "realistic" as well. You can love someone and be head over heels in love...but if you are not wise and realistic about it and ignore fundamental differences (and with those I mean the kind I mentioned above...not the "he always leaves the toilet seat up, it drives me nuts" type of differences...:doh: :lol:), you are only setting yourself up for heartbreak in the future. But that's MY opinion. You know, same thing if it were some fan with MJ who had some "fantasy idea" of MJ. You'd think he is perfect and can do no wrong and you could keep ignoring the things that you were not cool with for only so long until they'd really start to get to you. And then what? You wake up one day and go "Gosh...actually he's not at ALL the way I thought he was IN MY MIND". Instead of being realistic and having your eyes open from the beginning and go "This won't work. I love him..but this will never work" and save yourself (and him) from unnecessary heartbreak. Anyways, maybe I'm not such a "romantic" after all because if I knew there are some huge differences between me and the guy, I'd never get in the relationship in the first place. If something was really important to me and an essential part of my life and I KNEW the guy had a COMPLETELY different view about it...WHAT would I be doing with him if I knew from the start that it will never work? That would be a bit unfair, don't you think? To me it would be naive to hope he'll change, besides I would not want to hurt him NOR myself and lead him on. But maybe that's just me. :scratch:Anyways, what do I know. :lol:
 
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