David Guests book. intresting info not mentioned before?

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Yeah KOPV, you're spot on.

 

[Datsymay]

Michael does not pretend to be someone he is not. That is not true. What you see with Michael is what you get. Michael cannot even lie straight, and he does tell little porkies from time to time, but they are harmless little porkies, and are done in jest, he is a practical joker, afterall. But MJ is prone to exaggeration, many people are, and when he does it, it is so rediculous that you know it cannot be true. Unfortunately the media and the fans tend to run with it and create drama when it wasn't meant to be. MJ is natuarally an honest man, honest people rarely tell lies, and when they do, it is never convincing. No MJ is not fake. He is one of the most honest man I know, in fact too honest for his own good and this world. That is what got him into so much trouble in the first place.

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Yeah Datsy, you've got that right.

 

[Bee.]

I want to point out something - I never stated that MJ was phony. I stated that the entertainment business is based on some kind of phoniness. So, to assume that MJ was not in some kind of phoniness is hard to believe.

Also, I do not think that "fake" was a good word to desribe MJ's image. I should have stated that "exaggaration" is a good way to desribe it.

I would never say that drinking is one of them. MJ grew up in an household that did not drink. Neither Joe nor Katherine were drinkers. The brothers did not drink either. Michael joined a church that was totally against drinking alchohol. Yes, I do believe that for the most part of MJ's adult life he was a non drinker. Many other celebs have said that. I believe MJ did not drink, smoke or swear, cause that was the requirement of his church, the same as the one I grew up in.

Right, so did a lot of people who grew up in a household that prohibit drinking. I believe that as well to a certain extent. I also believe that swearing was not part of his vocab and maybe did not swear. I believe that MJ did not drink until he tried it and liked it. As for smoking, that I do not think he does. I know that it was a requirement in the church not to smoke, drink or swear but also was prematrial sex and the brothers did plenty of that.

But as Datsmay said too, the other thing is that MJ doesn't come out to "correct" himself or announce when he changes habits & stuff later on. So chances are he didn't drink before but started later.

Hmmm, well, MJ does not have to. I think the public and the fans should not take anything anyone says as what it is most of the time. (esp. these days.) MJ said a lot of things when he was younger. Some true, some false, but it is up to the public to decide. MJ's job is to do music. Yeah, those are the chances and there was a possibility that MJ drink some when he was younger as well. I do not think he did, but I am just going by my opinion.

Out of curiosity, what exactly did Quincy say? Was this one particular interview? I know he didn't defend Michael during the allegations & trials or anything, but I assumed that he stayed quiet like others just to not get involved (which I don't support, but hey - they might have their reasons).

He did a blog on the website the Huffinton Post during the trial. You might have to check the achives on here for that. In that blog, he talks about MJ as if he almost did not know Michael. As for not vocally defend MJ, I just feel that he should have said something. I will try to find it.

Personally, I always believed that the shy, gentleness and child-likeness is a REAL part of Michael Jackson that he has CHOSEN to show to the public. The other parts of his personality-including the flaws-he choose not to show--not out of being phony or fake; but because he needed apart of himself that he needed to protect and left for HIM and those closest to him. He has given enough of himself to the public all his life for goodness sake. That's why I was very angry at Lisa Marie when she started bashing him because she tried to make it seem like he was fake just because he never 'let it all hang out' publically so to speak. I think that was a form of self-preservation on his part--not being fake. He only let those closest to him and whom he trusts to see ALL of him.

I see where you are coming from. I personally feel, regardless of everything, that MJ did it the right way. In my view, it seems like he fooled the public and he did a very good job at that. The Man-child image was him: he was physically a man that was a child inside. Inside, he just showed his child like qualities and not show his manhood qualities. Many people did not fully understand that and the rumors started flying about it. However, it got the people talking. Like life, however, reality sets in and sometimes people have to be reminded that it is not always a good thing to have an image all of the time. I am not saying that he should "whore" himself and tell people his business. I am stating that maybe he could have given people a glimspe into his manhood a little. I know that he has through his music, but a lot of people and fans do not really desect everything that they hear. I think that LMP was trying to make MJ look like a fool, to be honest. Trying to make him look really stupid and sadly it worked. I am not stating that what LMP did (regarding saying what she said about MJ when it comes to drinking and making jokes) was right or wrong, but she could have given MJ some credit about what he did. I also believe that she should have respected the fact that MJ did not want people to see that part of him but as usual, she did not. The last senstence: I totally agree with that and LMP was one of those people but she had to make it look bad and make herself look like the victim as usual.

And I think Bee was just saying (but correct me if I'm wrong Bee, cuz I don't know!) that the anger fans feel towards people who speak ill of MJ is sometimes misplaced by the sole reason that what they're saying isn't good - that is, that some fans are blinded by seeing only one side of MJ and not acknowledging his other human qualities.

EXACTLY!! That is what I was exactly thinking but you put it out so well. Damn!!! On point. Which is why I was happy that David did his book. And why I was "happy" (I put the quotes because LMP is a bitter....) LMP stated what she stated about MJ (not the used/manipulated part or when she was implying some ish but then backtracked because she is simple and stupid).

Personally, I don't know what LMP said about the drinking, but in general I don't like the way she's talked about MJ since their separation. Particularly the whole "trial being a blessing" tidbit on Oprah - yikes!

Same here. I really wanted Oprah or Orka to asked LMP what the hell she meant when she said that MJ "used and manipulated" her. I do not get that ish at all. LOL. LMP has issues, but we are not surprised by that.

It's just like he said in Moonwalker - that he knows there's this goody goody image of him in the press but his friends know there's another side to him. But yeah, self-preservation is important for someone as big & prolific as him.

And that is why I love that book. MJ made it very clear but the media always ignore what is under their nose intentally for money. Self -preservation is essentail with people like MJ. That is why I believed that when the former promo guy was telling these clowns over at some board about MJ, he was stating that the IMAGE that they saw of MJ was CALCUATED! (that was the word that I was looking for, not fake or whatever. LOL!) That he, Mike and others came together and did this IMAGE of MJ so that the public/fans would focus on that and let MJ have a life, sort to speak. Let's say if MJ put himself out there back in the day like Madonna did. I remember Madonna being called "raunchy" and a "whore" and people believed it because she told her business to everyone and her image was so..... Instead of keeping things to herself, she kept talking. There are people STILL calling her those names today after everything because she put herself out there. She could have kept her mouth shut about herself like Whitney, Michael and Prince did back in the day. Made herself (Madonna) a mystery rather than, you know.... So, in a lot of ways, MJ had to do what he had to do because the media would have made him out to be whatever. Sadly, since the media is nosy, if they did not get what they wanted from MJ, they went to the desperate measures: create something on him.

That's bound to create distrust, and if he can cultivate his own image & have some degree of control over it (which all celebrities have some of, whether they admit or not) then by all means he should exert that control.

Right. Look what is going on with Lindsay, Britney and even Miley - bad mistake was even being down with the media. (And they all got their start from Disney: interesting) If you do not have a "wholesome" image that the Osmonds are STILL trying to pimp, then do not be down with the media. The media is the enemy. These famous people do not see that. It is OK to talk to some of them because not ALL of them are evil, but the good majority are.

I am apalled at the arrangement they had to make with Nsync. Not exactly the highlight of the MSG concerts, so they had a right cheek! Not MJ's fault - someone should have got their "act together" in real-world terms.

Agreed. They should have never been there in the first place. I am insulted when I see them perform with MJ. That should have been Boys II Men or 3T, you know what I mean?

As for your trust regrading David: it is understandable.

But that's just the thing - without the tough part of him he wouldn't be able to do show biz, and wouldn't have the drive that he needs to achieve everything.

Good point. I remember one time when I was watching this thing on MJ and that heifer, Maureen Orth was interviewed. She made a big damn deal about MJ having a deep voice. I was like, "so? Hustle is hustle, ain't it?" I mean, people are so full of themselves and can't respect any real, legit, calculated hustle. Hey, the soft voice gave MJ the money, the women (come on y'all, you know that is the truth), the legions of fans, the legacy and that Catalogue and let's not forget that his CDs sold way over 750 MILLION copies worldwide. Hey, I cannot HATE on Michael's hustle. If that voice and many other things, gave Mike all of that, then I say go for it. Maureen Orth knows nothing about that. All she does is write about people she hate because she can't do what they can do.

No, Michael does not pretend to be a different person.. not at all..

Ya he's done PR moves/stunts.. He's done his things to create an image larger than life.. It's brilliant..

But he does not ACT like a different person..

He's just a private person.. And when u mix what we don't know, with the PR moves, and all that circlates it.. It's very hard to read exactly who he is

Good point. Regarding the bolded part: maybe that is what MJ wanted. He wanted people to figure him out instead of him telling people. That is kind of like Prince when he first came out. People wanted to know if he was black or white, gay, straight or bisexual, man or a woman. He got people guessing. Hey, I like it. LOL. It makes it interesting.

I mean several fans were shocked to find out MJ had pornography, or drank wine..

You are not lying. MJ had the really, REALLY nasty porn and strong liquor at that. LOL.

The public, is like his children..

That is a good way of putting it. However, the media gets angry when they do not get what they want. They are like the spoiled children.

Michael does not pretend to be someone he is not. That is not true. What you see with Michael is what you get. Michael cannot even lie straight, and he does tell little porkies from time to time, but they are harmless little porkies, and are done in jest, he is a practical joker, afterall. But MJ is prone to exaggeration, many people are, and when he does it, it is so rediculous that you know it cannot be true. Unfortunately the media and the fans tend to run with it and create drama when it wasn't meant to be. MJ is natuarally an honest man, honest people rarely tell lies, and when they do, it is never convincing. No MJ is not fake. He is one of the most honest man I know, in fact too honest for his own good and this world. That is what got him into so much trouble in the first place.

Michael, like me, is NOT a good liar and that is a good thing. Mike exaggrate and should do what he got to do. He wanted people to focus on the music because people naturally do and not his personal life. I do not think his honestly got him in trouble. I think not seeing the evil ways of people with serious issues got him in trouble and the choices he made. He did not have to have that family in his house. He did not have to care about those people. He made a lot of choices in his life that has hurt him. His honesty is one of the best things about him. I think we, maybe I, need to make this VERY CLEAR that in no way, I, or anyone else on here, feels that MJ is "fake" or "phony". Please, stop saying that because that is really making me a bit angry. I was trying to desribe my point of view and I said or imply things that I honesty did not mean to say. So, please understand that. We are all expressing what David was saying and trying to understand where he is coming from. That is all we are doing.

The name calling that David recieved on here was imature. There are ways to make a point without being low and name calling someone. Some of you can state that you do not trust him - that is fine. Flaky - that is wrong. I feel that if you have nothing nice to say about anyone, then do not say anything. At the end of the day, we are fans. We buy music and we support, love, admire, Michael. We do not know him just because we have the same religion as him or we know people that know him. We just take what is in front of us and discuss and decided if we believe it or don't. That is all we do.

 

[KOPV]

^ I smiled when I read when u said MJ is not a good lier..

That's so true.. lol!

But that shows how honest he really is.. Cuz when he does try to cover something up, or turn attention from.. It's so obvious.. That alone tells me so much..

He studders, smiles, looks all over the place, sometimes wipes his nose..

It's wonderfull..

Sometimes the best way to see how truthfull someone is, is by seeing how they lie.. Everyone lies at times.. But those who are honest, don't do a good job..



P.S. Though I speak out about not name calling, and acting out at people that talk about MJ in ways we don't want to hear.. But I do understand the reasonings..

My point that I try to get across is.. Just be mature enough to HEAR others out.. Otherwise we are the same as the haters, but in reverse..

You cannot teach without knowing the other perspectives..


The first step at GETTING people to have an open mind is having an open mind yourself to things you don't 'like'..

U want to not just through out what you know.. But explaine why you believe what you are saying, and how it pertaines to what that other person believes..


If a person believes MJ is all the media says..

Don't FIGHT them..

first - ask them what and why they think that

second - SHOW them how it is not true

third - explaine what you believe and know



BUT most people tend to simply say "HELL NO.. READ THE FACTS"

Well if they were not motivated enough to read the facts on there own, they are not going to want to do it when someone is attacking them with it.. Not just that, they'll hate the idea of reading the facts after u say that.

Make the "FACTS" APPEALING to them...

It's all mental

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Personally, I always believed that the shy, gentleness and child-likeness is a REAL part of Michael Jackson that he has CHOSEN to show to the public. The other parts of his personality-including the flaws-he choose not to show--not out of being phony or fake; but because he needed apart of himself that he needed to protect and left for HIM and those closest to him. He has given enough of himself to the public all his life for goodness sake. That's why I was very angry at Lisa Marie when she started bashing him because she tried to make it seem like he was fake just because he never 'let it all hang out' publically so to speak. I think that was a form of self-preservation on his part--not being fake. He only let those closest to him and whom he trusts to see ALL of him.

That's exactly the deal, but people for some reason don't get that. Michael's given so much of himself to the world, he had to keep a part of himself or there would be nothing left. That's what people don't understand. But the fact that he shares his values and ideals with the world, and what his hopes and dreams are, that's one of the most private things a person can share, and Michael has done so whole heartedly. But he gets no credit for it. But like you said, the side the public sees, that's as real as any of his sides, it's the side he chooses to share.

 

[BigDaddy]

Just wanted to say thank you to enlightenu for that JJ quote - I hadn't heard it. It's a good description of him lol.

And thanks to Bee for understanding, and yes - I do know what you mean!! 3T or BoyzIIMen would have been a lot more like it!!! Or maybe a longer performance with Usher instead lol! Two acts that would actually make sense together....

 

[mistermaxxx]

he is right about MJ changing and being tired of the business. that is no secret.

 

[Datsymay]

he is right about MJ changing and being tired of the business. that is no secret.

I think he did change too, but not for the reason that he gave.

 

[KOPV]

As far as shyness, Michael always has and still is shy.. No faking there AT ALL..



However as he got older, he's gotten more secure within himself and is LESS shy.. He can look people directly in the eyes now, he speaks with conviction in his voice..

He's now much more SURE of himself then before..

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

Not in the years he gave though. Michael was still very driven, obviously, for both "Bad" and "Dangerous". And he put out amazing work with "History", but I don't think he wanted to tour. He hasn't wanted to tour since the end of the "Bad" tour, and who can blame him when he's been doing it since he was 5. Michael wasn't zoned out on drugs in the late 80s and early 90s. He may have been taking pain killers to deal with some things, but he wasn't addicted, clearly. That only happened later, in 93 I guess, when things just went south and it's been off and on a few times since. But to say he doesn't care is just wrong. He wouldn't do anything if he didn't care at all. And he cares now, that's obvious.

 

[djbaby]

Overall I think this thread has been positive. Most of us seem to basically agree on the situation , with some subtle differences around the way things have been handled in presenting to the public. I'm sorry to do this, but I have to go off topic for a sec. Somebody said that LMP said that the trial was "a blessing" - can I ask in what context she said this? Is there a video of this anywhere?

 

[wannabestartinsomthin21]

She was on Larry King and she said something like seeing the trial as a blessing, she didn't really elaborate on what she meant, but I suspect she meant as a way to "wake Michael up". But that's bull sh*t. He almost lost his life. That's not a blessing, and people still treat him like dirt.