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David Guests book. intresting info not mentioned before?

KOPV said:
Some fans will always get angree if they hear anything NEAR unflattering stories about Michael.. As if he's the ONLY human that is flawless.. lol!

If I personally saw Michael do something fans would not like, and I told a fan board about it.. VERY few fans would believe me.. Infact they would attack me for saying it..

NOW I see when ANYONE says anything thats not of PRAISE for Michael fans get angree..

Many friends and people that are/were close to Michael, when they something that interfears with this IDOLIC figure many fans try to create they go crazy in anger...


Michael is human and he has and will continue to have/do MANY unflattering things.. It's ok because he's human and we should not try to EXPECT this idolic perfect being when he or non of us are..

In my opinion that's putting TOO MUCH on Michael plate, and puts alot of pressure on him.. He knows the figure fans expect from him and of course he would not want to let his fans down.. SO, he as any person in his shoes would try to live up to that expectation..


I think we need to give him room to be HUMAN.
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What an excellent post. So sorry I can't give you rep point for it as you haven't turned on your rep thing, or can I. Cheers anyway:cheers:
 
I agree KOPV...

Hearing unflattering stories about Jackson does not change all the flattering things we hear about him. And it doesn't make the flattering things less true.

While what Gest wrote is very personal, I don't think he was trying to hurt him.

Jackson probably has some less than flattering stories about David Gest that the guy won't mention in his own book. I bet Jackson has stories about Quincy Jones that might not be so pristine.

Perhaps Jackson is just too polite to write about it in a book and would rather keep that part of his relationships with his friends and family to himself. The gentleman thing. One of his more flattering qualities.
 
Datsymay said:
I agree with you Bee. David loves MJ. I feel it in my bones. He loves the Jackson family and speaks very highly of them. MJ is not a saint and shouldn't be treated as such . It is not fair to MJ to be put on on this pole where he is afraid to get off. Reminds me of the scarecrow in the wiz.
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You made a very excellent point. I tend to treat people as humans. MJ is a human being to me. I like what David stated about MJ because not only that he added that MJ is a good person, but he added that MJ can be a pain at times, like everyone can be at some point. I had a convo when a buddy of mines and she told me that this man who knew/knows MJ said to her that MJ can be an ass at times. The man did not state that to be mean, he said that because at times, MJ can act like an ass. I really respect that because you can truly relate to him. It is totally not fair to even think of putting MJ in that pedastal. That is why I was actually happy that LMP said that MJ was a different person when she got to know him because she wanted to show the public that this persona that MJ was rocking was a fraud in many ways. I also liked when this woman name Shana Mantagal came forward and stated that MJ practically broke her heart. Whether the fans believe her or not is not really the issue, but rather how she explained how MJ broke her heart. I have to admit, for one of the first times in my many years of being an MJ fan, I was angry with MJ and I liked it in a way because FINALLY it was showing a human side of MJ. That is why I cannot understand why so many people put famous people on pedastals. Never understood that.

If I personally saw Michael do something fans would not like, and I told a fan board about it.. VERY few fans would believe me.. Infact they would attack me for saying it..

NOW I see when ANYONE says anything thats not of PRAISE for Michael fans get angree..

Many friends and people that are/were close to Michael, when they something that interfears with this IDOLIC figure many fans try to create they go crazy in anger...
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You made a great point and I feel you on that. I remember some two years ago I was a member of some board and I defended someone who knew MJ and was very close to him. This person did this interview and fans were disgusted by some of the things that she stated. I simply explain to the fans in detail what she was saying and these fans attacked me. The next thing I knew, I was banned from that board. I was like, "get the hell out of here...." I mean, those fans just could not see MJ like that. I have so many examples of what KOPV stated that I will go on and on. I think it is all sad. I really do. Fans are so personally involved in MJ's life that they can't seem to give him any space to be a human being. That is why I believe what some of his women say when they come forward and talk about MJ. I believe what some of his ex employees (who did not screw him over) say about MJ that might anger fans. I think that for the next era fans need to start treating MJ as a human being. Let him be him.
 
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I don't think anyone here is trying to deny Michael is imperfect. I just think David Guest is flaky is, flaky as. I wouldn't trust somebody who puts those kinds of personal issues on display. Everyone who has researched Michael and his life knows he's had a lot of trouble with pain medications in the past, even in the not so distant past. But one can hardly blame him, considering what kind of life he's had and the kinds of issues he's had to face. And of course Michael can be competitive, argumentative, angry and all those lovely qualities all of us hold inside and sometimes outside. But that's hardly a reason to judge him. I think certain fans want to harp too much on Michael's faults and rarely want to talk about his redeeming qualities, which obviously far outweigh the bad. And I think a lot of fans also have a problem taking Michael at his word, for whatever reason. But the way I look at it, and at him, is that, he's the authority on his life, he's the authority on his feelings, and I'm going to listen to Michael first and above all when it comes to himself. That's all. If people want to lable that as idol worship or as being unrealistic, then fine. I know Michael isn't always going to share every detail of his life, he shouldn't be expected to. But I'll never take someone elses word over Michael's when it comes to himself. That's just not right. How would any of us like it if some "friend" started talking about personal issues of ours to different people and made judgements on those issues and us, and then when you tried to explain yourself to those people, they believed your "friend" over you? That wouldn't feel too nice. Michael is a human being, he has feelings, he has faults, he has insecurities, but like we don't enjoy having those short comings in ourselves being highlighted, I highly doubt Michael does either. What should be admired about Michael, his want to share his most idealistic side with the world and thus be a good role model, is instead chastized and belittled as him being "fake" and hiding from the fans and public. God forbid one should be responsible with their fame and want to set the best example for others to follow. The side Michael shares is real, it's as much a part of him as any side, it's his best side, and he's helping others bring out their best side by sharing so wholey his best side.

And about the 30th anniversary show, why would Michael be enthusiastic about it when one, it wasn't his idea, it was David's, and two, Sony was jacking him by refusing to back "Invincible" and there was no insentive for Michael to really be "in to" it?
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
I don't think anyone here is trying to deny Michael is imperfect. I just think David Guest is flaky is, flaky as. I wouldn't trust somebody who puts those kinds of personal issues on display. Everyone who has researched Michael and his life knows he's had a lot of trouble with pain medications in the past, even in the not so distant past. But one can hardly blame him, considering what kind of life he's had and the kinds of issues he's had to face. And of course Michael can be competitive, argumentative, angry and all those lovely qualities all of us hold inside and sometimes outside. But that's hardly a reason to judge him. I think certain fans want to harp too much on Michael's faults and rarely want to talk about his redeeming qualities, which obviously far outweigh the bad. And I think a lot of fans also have a problem taking Michael at his word, for whatever reason. But the way I look at it, and at him, is that, he's the authority on his life, he's the authority on his feelings, and I'm going to listen to Michael first and above all when it comes to himself. That's all. If people want to lable that as idol worship or as being unrealistic, then fine. I know Michael isn't always going to share every detail of his life, he shouldn't be expected to. But I'll never take someone elses word over Michael's when it comes to himself. That's just not right. How would any of us like it if some "friend" started talking about personal issues of ours to different people and made judgements on those issues and us, and then when you tried to explain yourself to those people, they believed your "friend" over you? That wouldn't feel too nice. Michael is a human being, he has feelings, he has faults, he has insecurities, but like we don't enjoy having those short comings in ourselves being highlighted, I highly doubt Michael does either. What should be admired about Michael, his want to share his most idealistic side with the world and thus be a good role model, is instead chastized and belittled as him being "fake" and hiding from the fans and public. God forbid one should be responsible with their fame and want to set the best example for others to follow. The side Michael shares is real, it's as much a part of him as any side, it's his best side, and he's helping others bring out their best side by sharing so wholey his best side.

And about the 30th anniversary show, why would Michael be enthusiastic about it when one, it wasn't his idea, it was David's, and two, Sony was jacking him by refusing to back "Invincible" and there was no insentive for Michael to really be "in to" it?
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On point. How many ppl did Michael reveal personal, potentially unflattering details about in moonwalker? My count is zero. I completely accept that MJ is human, and that's all fine. I have read about instances where DG has been supportive of MJ, so that's nice too. However, the info that he put in his book - as it was presented initially in this thread - is not something a friend should do IMO. It just doesn't sit well with me.
 
Is it just me, or is this thread a quarter of the size it was yesterday? There's like a hundred posts that just seemed to disappear! :lol:

NVM... the mods cleaned out the thread.

Could you tell us some of the stories in the book where David writes about MJ playing practical jokes? I would love to read about some of the stuff those two got up to :lol:
 
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Right on djbaby. It's just the classy and considerate thing to do, not to talk about other people on a personal level, especially when those personal things are something so intimate as drug addiction, etc... when they're your friend or have confided in you in some way. Michael never wanted the public to know about these things , understandably. Michael's always shown class and respect for other human beings by not talking about them in any extensive fashion or revealing overlly personal details about them without their concent. That's a quality to be admired in him, I think. He doesn't sell people out like that.
 
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I see your point but I doubt David is "flaky". Unless you been around David personally, you cannot assume that David is "flaky". What personal issues? That MJ seemed to be out of it during the 30th Anniversary thingy? We all seen that and thought the same thing. When David told MJ not to settle and MJ did not want to settle and sadly he did? Who else told him that same thing? Maybe plenty. Just because those people did not publically mentioned it means that in some way they cannot be trusted? I am lost.

You can have issues in your life and not be addicted to anything. It has nothing to do with what he been through. You make it seem like MJ went through so much issues in his life that he has a life that is pretty sad. Well, reality check, MJ might have suffered in his life, but most of that had to do with his fame rather than anything else. MJ did not have a family member die at a young age or lost a parent or went through some type of trauma. Those kinds of things can mess up anyone. MJ was addicted to what he was addicted to. What does that have to do with his life that we know? I did some research (what fan hasn't) on MJ and I came to the conclusion that some of the things that happened to him could have been prevented. I stop protecting MJ in regards to many things because I cannot protect someone that knew what he was doing and knew it was going to hurt him. David is simply stating things that happened and compared the "old MJ" to the "new MJ" and stated what MJ would not do. How does that make him "flaky"?

Who is judging MJ? All David was doing was telling his point of view about MJ based on what he has seen. Fans do it all of the time when they get a chance to met MJ. I do not see you calling them "flaky". I do not think that "certain" fans want to harp on MJ's faults. MJ is HUMAN and he is going to make mistakes. I make mistakes, you make mistakes, everyone makes miskates and all some fans are STATING is that MJ should not be held in this pedastal because he has all of these "good qualities". Who, with a good heart, does not have good qualities? This is issue that I have with some fans that think they "know" MJ. They can't seem to take something that is not their ideal of MJ and deal with it. Some of these fans make long replies because they are upset that David is not praising MJ like he is this God like Elizabeth Taylor or Liza Minneli does. David knew MJ since MJ was a kid, he does not need to create stories on MJ to sell a book. He might be weird, but he means well.

I do not think that fans have a "problem" taking what MJ said from his mouth. I am the main one telling people that MJ said himself that he is not Jesus. MJ said himself that he is not a goody good two shoes and that he is not this "Angel" that his fans STILL see him as. MJ also stated in his book, that he had girlfriends that the public does not know about. However, whenever some females comes forward to tell her story, she is called a "liar" from his fans. Yet, these same fans want some of his fans to take his word. And how is MJ being "chastised" for being "fake"? Where was that stated on this board? MJ created an IMAGE in the 1980's to fool the public. There was a former promo guy that use to work with MJ that CONFIRMED that story and stated that MJ WANTED that image. I remember reading that on some board and I doubt that guy was lying. I do not see how any fan is "chasting" MJ. All the fans on here love MJ regardless and understand the hustle. It is the entertainment business, the land of phoniness. I mean Miley Cyrus is proof of that. Nicole, you are making a big deal out of nothing. You, we are all, consumers. We buy music because we love it, it is entertainment. Not everything is what it seems. MJ fooled the public and they fell for it. It worked. I mean, what is the deal? You must be taking it hard because you fell for it an that is OK. MJ is still the legend, still the man, still is amazing. However, when you reach a certain age in your life, you will start to understand that it is all just am image and what stands is the music.

wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
I don't think anyone here is trying to deny Michael is imperfect. I just think David Guest is flaky is, flaky as. I wouldn't trust somebody who puts those kinds of personal issues on display. Everyone who has researched Michael and his life knows he's had a lot of trouble with pain medications in the past, even in the not so distant past. But one can hardly blame him, considering what kind of life he's had and the kinds of issues he's had to face. And of course Michael can be competitive, argumentative, angry and all those lovely qualities all of us hold inside and sometimes outside. But that's hardly a reason to judge him. I think certain fans want to harp too much on Michael's faults and rarely want to talk about his redeeming qualities, which obviously far outweigh the bad. And I think a lot of fans also have a problem taking Michael at his word, for whatever reason. But the way I look at it, and at him, is that, he's the authority on his life, he's the authority on his feelings, and I'm going to listen to Michael first and above all when it comes to himself. That's all. If people want to lable that as idol worship or as being unrealistic, then fine. I know Michael isn't always going to share every detail of his life, he shouldn't be expected to. But I'll never take someone elses word over Michael's when it comes to himself. That's just not right. How would any of us like it if some "friend" started talking about personal issues of ours to different people and made judgements on those issues and us, and then when you tried to explain yourself to those people, they believed your "friend" over you? That wouldn't feel too nice. Michael is a human being, he has feelings, he has faults, he has insecurities, but like we don't enjoy having those short comings in ourselves being highlighted, I highly doubt Michael does either. What should be admired about Michael, his want to share his most idealistic side with the world and thus be a good role model, is instead chastized and belittled as him being "fake" and hiding from the fans and public. God forbid one should be responsible with their fame and want to set the best example for others to follow. The side Michael shares is real, it's as much a part of him as any side, it's his best side, and he's helping others bring out their best side by sharing so wholey his best side.

And about the 30th anniversary show, why would Michael be enthusiastic about it when one, it wasn't his idea, it was David's, and two, Sony was jacking him by refusing to back "Invincible" and there was no insentive for Michael to really be "in to" it?
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I do not believe that all of MJ's image is fake. In fact I do not believe that any is fake, however I do think that some fans do put too much expectations on him and they speak as if he cannot do anything wrong. I do not harp on about MJs failures because I do not like to, but I do gat annoyed with him sometimes about some of the choices he has made. No they are not about 'beby dangling'. I saw NO baby dangling and I will forever defend him on that. No, Not about plastic surgery, he has every right to do whatever to his body same as every body else. I have different issues that I think MJ may have done differently and I get annoyed with him about it, but then I ask myself,'What would I have done, had I been as successful as MJ' I probably had lost my mind, so then I control my self and say, well, he has done a fine job keeping sane anyway. Not bad for 40 plu s years in the business.

Let me also say that I do believe that there are angels walking ths earth. I know a few and I believe that Michael is one of them. That doesn't exempt him from making human mistakes, cause he is human too.
 
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I am by no means am saying the David should have wrote it.. But I'm just saying don't just cross it out as a lie because you don't like to think of MJ doing something like that..

David grew up with Michael.. Tito and Michael were his best friends.. David Guess tried so hard to be like them.. Tanning to try to be black ,growing an afro, calling Katherine mom.. lol! HE REALLY wanted to be a Jackson.. He to this day is VERY close to the family..

When Tito suprized Guest at his hotel when he was coming home from a reality show that he participated in, Guests burst into tears of joy because he was there...

HE LOVES THEM..


I have also noticed he is very free willed.. he talks too much, he will say things that should be private, but does not really watch his mouth.. Is it a flaw?? probably.. But that does not mean he loves them any less..

It's just the way it is..I think we should just lay off..


Quincy mentioned MJ changing his face and stuff some fans got mad and called him a trader... Then a few months later we find out Quincy and Michael spent time together..

This tells me 2 things..
1) Fans take it WAY too hard..
2) Michael obviously is not that mad at Quincy if he's spending time with him

We take it harder than Mike himself.. We (well most) hate hearing ANYTHING negitive about Michael..

We get mad when someone sues Michael.. Then months later calls Michael a friend.. We're go off.. "If he's really a fan he would not sue him."

Well Michael can seperate business and friendship.. It's a part of the game.. U don't think Michael has sued anyone that he still calls friend and keeps in touch with??? Of course..

Michael did not find it a big deal when he bought the Beatles music because it was 'business'... He even told Paul.. "It's just business".. PAUL was the one said. "Ya, but it's also friendship, loyalty.."


We need to allow people say things about Michael.. If you really want to know Michael for WHO Michael really is.. U have to be willing to listen to stories.. positive and negitive..

There are many people that LOVE Michael that we hate on simply because they said something that we don't want to hear..

Also every friendship ever lost between Michael and someone else we AUTOMATICALLY blame it on that other person, like as if we were there and you KNOW what's up.. lol!

Just let people speak there minds.. Not saying everyone is going to tell the truth, but how will you know the truth unless you hear people out..??


That is being as closed minded as haters, but in the opposite way.. It's like plugging your ears'' "no, no, no... NOT TRUE" But with nothing to back it up but your opinion..

We get mad when others do.. So don't do the same..

Plus the MORE you know, the more things you'll be able to use to defend Michael the BEST way..


PLUS in my opinion, the Michael Jackson that many people talk about is much more interesting and fun to hang out with that the image we make up.. Michael is not just black and white.. he's very complex and interesting.. a HUMAN that would be really cool to hang out with..
 
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Maybe Mj hadn't even heard what quincy said about him or maybe he was just doing business, like getting him permissionto use his interview. I doubt MJ would have been pleased with what Quincy said about him.
 
^ well ya, but I really don't think Michael would be like OMG.. don't talk to me again.. lol!

his mom has said he's gotten surgeries.. But u don't see him outcasting his mom..

I know my friends have said things about me to people, but I don't 'break up' with them because of it.. We just move/go on..

It was not the first time Quincy said something negitive about MJ..

he's mentioned his face, his obsessive peronality.. on some occasions, I doubt that ALL things said were never heard..

It's all good.. I mean Mikes a human.. Let him be one..

We hate when people call him 'weird' but the image some fans try to create is 'weirdly perfect'.. The stories about him that we often hear makes him more NORMAL..
 
^ I agree.. I don't think that he should have said it in public..

But that does not mean his opinion on Michael changed.. He's probably thought the same way (gradually) for years.. Starting when he saw Michael come into the studio and saw him with the cleft for the first time..

Those thoughts just don't come up over night.. The fact he said it, was wrong.. But that he thought that way, I don't think is 'wrong'..

Kinda get what I'm saying?

I can see why fans would get mad that Quincy would say that to the public.. But people get mad that he FEELS that way, as if he does not have the bases to believe that..

There's a difference between to 2..
 
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I do not believe that all of MJ's image is fake. In fact I do not believe that any is fake, however I do think that some fans do put too much expectations on him and they speak as if he cannot do anything wrong.
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Well, I see what you are saying but in many ways, he created an image that was not all real. He exaggarated his image just a bit too much. I mean, MJ works in a industry that centers on phoniness and MJ had to be phony at times. If it got the public focusing on the music and not his personal life, then, that is all good. I think it is not just the fans, but a lot of people took the image way too seriously and truly believe that MJ is like that when he really is not. (According to family and close friends.) Like when it was revealed by LMP that MJ likes to drink, Mike said years ago that he does not drink and many fans, including me, believed him. We now know the real answer. Some fans got very angry with LMP when she stated that because they really believed that MJ does not drink. I felt the fans should have put that "anger" on MJ for lying about that.

Let me also say that I do believe that there are angels walking ths earth. I know a few and I believe that Michael is one of them. That doesn't exempt him from making human mistakes, cause he is human too.
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I believe that as well, but when I mentioned that part about MJ telling people that he is not this "angel", I think he was talking about being very holy-like and not doing anything bad or made any mistakes. I think people misinturpted what he was being viewed as and made it clear in that Ebony magazine article from 1984.

I am by no means am saying the David should have wrote it.. But I'm just saying don't just cross it out as a lie because you don't like to think of MJ doing something like that..

David grew up with Michael.. Tito and Michael were his best friends.. David Guess tried so hard to be like them.. Tanning to try to be black ,growing an afro, calling Katherine mom.. lol! HE REALLY wanted to be a Jackson.. He to this day is VERY close to the family..

When Tito suprized Guest at his hotel when he was coming home from a reality show that he participated in, Guests burst into tears of joy because he was there...

HE LOVES THEM..
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Esp. on the bolded part: you really desribed what I was trying to say on here. I even had to rethink some things about MJ when I read what David said. I think it is wrong for fans to assume that David is lying or creating things just to do it. I think that David was trying to describe some things that MJ did and what he feel MJ would not do if he was on his normal state of mind. I think David did a great job explaning that. And everything else you stated: that shows the CLOSENESS that David has with MJ and Tito and the rest of the family. That kind of closeness shows to me, that David knows what he is talking about regarding the family and Michael.

I have also noticed he is very free willed.. he talks too much, he will say things that should be private, but does not really watch his mouth.. Is it a flaw?? probably.. But that does not mean he loves them any less..
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Right, it probably is his flaw but does that mean that he is telling a lie? Not really. Yeah, I agree, David talks too much, but that could be part of his personality. I mean, lets face it, if MJ did not like a friend that talked too much and putting his business out there, MJ would not be friends with him. David is what I call a blabbermouth. Cannot stop talking to save his life! LOL. LaToya is like that as well. I remember seeing her in some interviews and she just could not shut up. LOL. However, that is her personality and if that is how she expresses herself, all power to her. David might express himself in that way, all power to him.

I also want to put out that MJ fans should not feel the need to assume that anyone that is close to MJ or related to MJ should not tell his business to people or the media. Fans need to understand that although it is kind of annoying and a bit intrusive to blabber about Mike's personal life, that MJ is famous and when someone is famous, their business will be out there. If MJ did not want his friends or realtives to shut up, then they would have done that. If some fans do not like when people close to MJ speak about him in a personal life, then do not read it.

Quincy mentioned MJ changing his face and stuff some fans got mad and called him a trader... Then a few months later we find out Quincy and Michael spent time together..

This tells me 2 things..
1) Fans take it WAY too hard..
2) Michael obviously is not that mad at Quincy if he's spending time with him
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You bought up a very interesting point because I was thinking about this. I feel like this: Quincy KNOWS MJ and should know about his skin disorder. I was angry and still angry at what Quincy did. At the same time, I was a bit happy that MJ and Q still talk to one another. Also, I am the main one saying that I think Q is a genius and a legend. However, Quincy said those things in a very dark period in Michael's life. At that time, Q did not vocally defend Michael. Q's children, one used to hang out with MJ during the Thriller and Bad eras, did not vocally defend him. And when Q was with Lionel Richie in my neck of the woods, Philadelphia the day MJ was arrested, he was asked about MJ and he stated that he did not know MJ as a person. Those are the things that I keep in mind when I think of Q and Michael. I feel that, like a lot of Michael's "friends" and former "employees", Q was happy to hang out and talk about MJ when the times were good and MJ's image was not tarnished. When things start to look bad, Q was nowhere to be found. As a fan of MJ, I take what Q said and did very seriosuly, because that shows that Q has no loyality towards Michael. I still feel that way and I do not think anything can change that.

We need to allow people say things about Michael.. If you really want to know Michael for WHO Michael really is.. U have to be willing to listen to stories.. positive and negitive..
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I agree with that 100%. However, I feel that I have a right, we all have a right to totally disagree with what someone said about MJ that is not true. Like, if someone calls MJ a liar, I want to know how is he a liar. I want to know what he said that makes him a liar. See what I mean? I also feel that fans protect MJ too much and need to lay off of that. I remember when someone on here said that Karen Faye stated that MJ pays his bills late. I thought that was funny because who doesn't pay their bills late? Some fans took it as offensive. I thought it was interesting that MJ was like everyone else. Now, Karen has said some other things that questions her professionalism, but I am not going there. I feel that fans should let things be and let things die down naturally. So, anyway, I agree with what you stated.

PLUS in my opinion, the Michael Jackson that many people talk about is much more interesting and fun to hang out with that the image we make up.. Michael is not just black and white.. he's very complex and interesting.. a HUMAN that would be really cool to hang out with..
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I totally agree. I believe that fans should like MJ based on what he gives us (the music) rather than what we see him as. A buddy of mine's told me that if you want to get to know Michael, you should hang out with him. Not read a magazine article about him or watch a tv show about him. David hung out with Mike and he is telling people in his book. I do not see how that is such a bad thing. Fans (some) need to lay off the overprotection of a man almost 50 years old with three children running a major empire who recieves lawsuits all the time like ANY businessman or entertainer who runs a business.

his mom has said he's gotten surgeries.. But u don't see him outcasting his mom..
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She did say that and mom knows best. LOL. He can't outcast his mother. She might whoop his ass! LOL.
 
While I agree that MJ has exaggerated some stories about his past, I would never say that drinking is one of them. MJ grew up in an household that did not drink. Neither Joe nor Katherine were drinkers. The brothers did not drink either. Michael joined a church that was totally against drinking alchohol. Yes, I do believe that for the most part of MJ's adult life he was a non drinker. Many other celebs have said that. I believe MJ did not drink, smoke or swear, cause that was the requirement of his church, the same as the one I grew up in.

MJ left the organization some time ago, and I belief that that was the time when he began to celebrate holidays and may even started drinking, as I did when I left my church. Of course MJ did not make a public announcement about these things, cause really it was nobody's business but his own. The story about MJ getting drunk is a perfect example about what happens to people who are not used to alchoholic beverages. He wasn't used to drinking and his body couldn't handle it.
 
Bee said:
Well, I see what you are saying but in many ways, he created an image that was not all real. He exaggarated his image just a bit too much. I mean, MJ works in a industry that centers on phoniness and MJ had to be phony at times. If it got the public focusing on the music and not his personal life, then, that is all good. I think it is not just the fans, but a lot of people took the image way too seriously and truly believe that MJ is like that when he really is not. (According to family and close friends.) Like when it was revealed by LMP that MJ likes to drink, Mike said years ago that he does not drink and many fans, including me, believed him. We now know the real answer. Some fans got very angry with LMP when she stated that because they really believed that MJ does not drink. I felt the fans should have put that "anger" on MJ for lying about that.
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Well said Bee. It's true that MJ's image has become exaggerated and that many people find it hard to see otherwise. I remember watching a parody sketch a while ago that showed MJ as "one of the guys" doing "manly" activities, and though it was amusing, I also found myself wondering 'who's to say he doesn't do those things during his free time?' Not that it matters whatsoever, but it just goes to show that the general public only knows the few qualities & personality traits that has been put out into the open long ago. They know no more and no less, and the drawback with the entertainment industry is that either way any kind of information can lead to hashing out charicature images from that.

But as Datsmay said too, the other thing is that MJ doesn't come out to "correct" himself or announce when he changes habits & stuff later on. So chances are he didn't drink before but started later.

Bee said:
You bought up a very interesting point because I was thinking about this. I feel like this: Quincy KNOWS MJ and should know about his skin disorder. I was angry and still angry at what Quincy did. At the same time, I was a bit happy that MJ and Q still talk to one another. Also, I am the main one saying that I think Q is a genius and a legend. However, Quincy said those things in a very dark period in Michael's life. At that time, Q did not vocally defend Michael. Q's children, one used to hang out with MJ during the Thriller and Bad eras, did not vocally defend him. And when Q was with Lionel Richie in my neck of the woods, Philadelphia the day MJ was arrested, he was asked about MJ and he stated that he did not know MJ as a person. Those are the things that I keep in mind when I think of Q and Michael. I feel that, like a lot of Michael's "friends" and former "employees", Q was happy to hang out and talk about MJ when the times were good and MJ's image was not tarnished. When things start to look bad, Q was nowhere to be found. As a fan of MJ, I take what Q said and did very seriosuly, because that shows that Q has no loyality towards Michael. I still feel that way and I do not think anything can change that.
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That's unfortunate to read, especially since out of the large number of people who have been in Michael's life, I think Quincy has had the most experience to know him. Because even they worked together on 3 albums, well - I dunno. I consider so much of Michael's work the embodiment of him. And those were crazy, growing years that spawned MJ's massive solo stardom, but Q was witness to it from the beginning. After all the times MJ called him a friend & all (during those Thriller Era interviews in which he kept saying he was just discovering friendship, etc. - which was kinda sad, considering how often he said his only friends at the time were mostly people he worked with), I would've thought Q would have more loyalty.

Out of curiosity, what exactly did Quincy say? Was this one particular interview? I know he didn't defend Michael during the allegations & trials or anything, but I assumed that he stayed quiet like others just to not get involved (which I don't support, but hey - they might have their reasons).
 
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Seeress said:
Well said Bee. It's true that MJ's image has become exaggerated and that many people find it hard to see otherwise. I remember watching a parody sketch a while ago that showed MJ as "one of the guys" doing "manly" activities, and though it was amusing, I also found myself wondering 'who's to say he doesn't do those things during his free time?' Not that it matters whatsoever, but it just goes to show that the general public only knows the few qualities & personality traits that has been put out into the open long ago. They know no more and no less, and the drawback with the entertainment industry is that either way any kind of information can lead to hashing out charicature images from that.

But as Datsmay said too, the other thing is that MJ doesn't come out to "correct" himself or announce when he changes habits & stuff later on. So chances are he didn't drink before but started later.



That's unfortunate to read, especially since out of the large number of people who have been in Michael's life, I think Quincy has had the most experience to know him. Because even they worked together on 3 albums, well - I dunno. I consider so much of Michael's work the embodiment of him. And those were crazy, growing years that spawned MJ's massive solo stardom, but Q was witness to it from the beginning. After all the times MJ called him a friend & all (during those Thriller Era interviews in which he kept saying he was just discovering friendship, etc. - which was kinda sad, considering how often he said his only friends at the time were mostly people he worked with), I would've thought Q would have more loyalty.

Out of curiosity, what exactly did Quincy say? Was this one particular interview? I know he didn't defend Michael during the allegations & trials or anything, but I assumed that he stayed quiet like others just to not get involved (which I don't support, but hey - they might have their reasons).
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Personally, I always believed that the shy, gentleness and child-likeness is a REAL part of Michael Jackson that he has CHOSEN to show to the public. The other parts of his personality-including the flaws-he choose not to show--not out of being phony or fake; but because he needed apart of himself that he needed to protect and left for HIM and those closest to him. He has given enough of himself to the public all his life for goodness sake. That's why I was very angry at Lisa Marie when she started bashing him because she tried to make it seem like he was fake just because he never 'let it all hang out' publically so to speak. I think that was a form of self-preservation on his part--not being fake. He only let those closest to him and whom he trusts to see ALL of him.
 
^ Oh, I agree enlightenu. I'm actually glad MJ doesn't talk about himself very much, because what little he has said has gotten ridiculously skewed. The only thing I was saying is that the entertainment industry often leaves little room for dignity as it can a lose-lose situation when you do speak up. The media definitely are the ones who setting the agenda and making caricatures out of people. And I think Bee was just saying (but correct me if I'm wrong Bee, cuz I don't know!) that the anger fans feel towards people who speak ill of MJ is sometimes misplaced by the sole reason that what they're saying isn't good - that is, that some fans are blinded by seeing only one side of MJ and not acknowledging his other human qualities. Personally, I don't know what LMP said about the drinking, but in general I don't like the way she's talked about MJ since their separation. Particularly the whole "trial being a blessing" tidbit on Oprah - yikes!

But I agree - I don't think Michael is being phony when he's being child-like & shy. Not at all! Those are very much real aspects to him. It's just like he said in Moonwalker - that he knows there's this goody goody image of him in the press but his friends know there's another side to him. But yeah, self-preservation is important for someone as big & prolific as him. I would never discount that in him because he has gotten used by filthy reporters. That's bound to create distrust, and if he can cultivate his own image & have some degree of control over it (which all celebrities have some of, whether they admit or not) then by all means he should exert that control. It's unfortunate that backlash has come out of what he's chosen to show and what he hasn't, but once again - that's the way the game goes :(.
 
No I never trusted DG either. Thank you for sharing these parts of the book though, I do appreciate it. It does make very interesting reading. (I've learned to be very cautious though with what to believe when you have someone name dropping, or talking about past relationships with other stars. This goes for any star.)

I am apalled at the arrangement they had to make with Nsync. Not exactly the highlight of the MSG concerts, so they had a right cheek! Not MJ's fault - someone should have got their "act together" in real-world terms.

xxx
 
Seeress said:
But I agree - I don't think Michael is being phony when he's being child-like & shy. Not at all! Those are very much real aspects to him.
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I agree here too. Ok, we know that MIke has both a soft voice and then a hard one. But that's just the thing - without the tough part of him he wouldn't be able to do show biz, and wouldn't have the drive that he needs to achieve everything. However, the honest part of him is the real beatiful gift, and that's what I admire so much more. Of course he is gonna go soft and quiet - we all do when you get right down to the personal thoughts and sharing your soul. That stuff can't be acted. I'm not saying he acts, but I would consider the outgoing part of MJ's personality like a tough shell that protects the precious, special soul that he is. xx
 
BigDaddy said:
I agree here too. Ok, we know that MIke has both a soft voice and then a hard one. But that's just the thing - without the tough part of him he wouldn't be able to do show biz, and wouldn't have the drive that he needs to achieve everything. However, the honest part of him is the real beatiful gift, and that's what I admire so much more. Of course he is gonna go soft and quiet - we all do when you get right down to the personal thoughts and sharing your soul. That stuff can't be acted. I'm not saying he acts, but I would consider the outgoing part of MJ's personality like a tough shell that protects the precious, special soul that he is. xx
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I remember a quote Janet Jackson said about Michael years ago: "People think when meeting Michael that he's a marshmallow; but they will find out they're dealing with a brick wall." I'm paraphrasing here, but that is what she said.
 
You can never tell how someone is by the way the family looks..

Think about it.. Many 'troubled' kids are preachers sons/daughters.. Sometimes when the RIGHT thing is so pressured, they naturally want to see something new..

PLUS not everything was hunkie-dorie in the Jacksons household.. MJ going to strip clubs to perform at 5 years old, Joe having several affaires, MJ seeing his bro's having sex while on tour...

Things were not that innocent..

If MJ drank wine, it's not that hard to believe.. It's not a secret that he drinks wine now.. And if you really look at Davids quote of what MJ said.. It does not even seem MJ really knew that the wine was bad for him.. Since he was singing J5 songs this hints that he was REALLY young. It's very possible he was not fully aware of what it was..
 
David comes across as flaky, that's what I meant. I don't trust him. I don't think he's lying, I just think he's exaggeratting, especially since Michael's own behavior contradicts what David said. Anyway, I get so tired of people saying Michael faked his entire image. How would they know, exactly? They don't know him. They only observe and make judgements off of what other people say. I listen to Michael. Like I said, what Michael conveys to the public is a part of who he is. Not the whole, but a part, his idealistic side, and he's putting forth his best qualities, which serves as a good modle for people, and I say that with confidence because that's what Michael says of himself, plus so many others who a lot of fans seem to conveinently ignore when assesing who Michael is. Why believe someone about Michael over Michael himself? It is someones ideals, perceptions and values which make up the whole of who they are, not whether they curse, drink or read porn, or get angry or bit*hy. Who they are is based on how they see, and the value Michael places on children, on child-like qualities and the retention of those qualities, his desire to improve the world, etc... those are all a part of him and who he is, he didn't make that up. Just because he didn't parade his private life and habits around in public doesn't mean he was fake, he just wanted to keep a part of his life to himself, which he deserves. How many of us go around telling co-workers or people we barely know that we have a porn collection or curse like sailors in private or drink till we can't see straight? Not many of us, I imagine, unless we're social retards. That's something almost all of us want to keep under wraps.
 
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No, Michael does not pretend to be a different person.. not at all..

Ya he's done PR moves/stunts.. He's done his things to create an image larger than life.. It's brilliant..

But he does not ACT like a different person..

He's just a private person.. And when u mix what we don't know, with the PR moves, and all that circlates it.. It's very hard to read exactly who he is..

I mean several fans were shocked to find out MJ had pornography, or drank wine..

It's not an image that MJ tries to ACT like.. It's just he knows he's a roll model and preserves much of his private life to himself..



It's more of what we DON'T know that create the idolic image..

Everyone tends to fill in those blanks of the unknown.. It's our nature..

Now when he see MJ acting himself (yet still being the roll model he knows he is), and the stories we may hear..

We create the rest..

Now when we hear/learn stories of MJ that ULTURE that 'unkown' areas that we filled in with what we WANT to believe.. It shakes us in a way that we don't like and SOME get angree and attack the person..


It's like when u find out a story about ur parents.. Lets say the had u before they were married.. Or that the Easter Bunny is not real..

It's that same resistance, but in a grown up fashion..

feel me??
 
Yeah KOPV, you've got it. That's exactly what happens. Just because Michael keeps aspects of his life to himself doesn't mean he actually presented a fake image of himself. He shares his ideals with the world though, and to me, that's as real as it gets.
 
^ exactly..

It's not that Michael is putting on this show with his personality.. He's just is who he thinks he should be in public..

The public, is like his children..

A parent does not put on a show and be someone else infront of there children.. They just show specific things that are good about them, and teach the best way by living out what the preach..

Dose that mean those parents are everything there children believe??

No, because there are things parenst CHOSE not to say or do infront of them because of the influence it will have..

SAME with Michael and when he's in public..


It bothered all of us finding out things about our parents that did not fit into our image we created from what we knew didn't it??

Same thing.. But we have to learn to except that our parents are human..

MICHAEL ASWELL.



p.s. wannabe, I posted something in the MJ: Present & Future thread that I would like ur thoughts.. I am asking what MJ is expecting for his new album..

Others check it out and post your thoughts too
 
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