Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Paris78;4292963 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&#8220;Kings don&#8217;t swat flies...and he&#8217;s a fly.&#8221;<br>&#8220;No, but we shoot monkeys, though.&#8221;<br><br>This had me screaming. &#55357;&#56834;<br>He had all the smoke for Wade. <br><br>I need Siggy to start a YouTube channel. Lol <a href="https://t.co/ZFIswnqWWn">pic.twitter.com/ZFIswnqWWn</a></p>&#8212; PHOENIX (@PhoenixLaNegra) <a href="https://twitter.com/PhoenixLaNegra/status/1269408711690371073?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

LOVE SIGGY!! Love how he tells it the way I would say it.
 
Just following up on the UK's 'Carl Beech' case, which parallels in many respects the false claims of Robson and Safechuck.
(eg Beech says he kept a jewellery box as a 'memento' - it had 'badges' in it.)

It was confirmed today that Beech will not appeal his conviction, but will appeal his sentence. Plus:

Carl Beech: the liar who made false claims of a VIP child abuse ring ordered to pay almost £24,000

The man who made false claims of a VIP child abuse ring and received compensation for his lies has today been ordered to pay £23,960.

Carl Beech, 52, claimed that he was among many victims of high-profile establishment figures who raped and murdered children in the 1970s and 1980s.

Telling police he had been transported to ‘sex parties’ as a child where he claimed to have suffered sadistic abuse at the hands of a VIP ‘group’, Beech’s lies resulted in a £2million investigation.

Despite a complete lack of evidence supporting Beech’s claims, he continued to maintain that his account was true throughout his trial.

However, the CPS put forward extensive evidence to dismantle Beech’s lies and fabrications and prove that the allegations were absolutely false.

On 22 July 2019, he was convicted of 12 counts of perverting the course of justice as well as one count of fraud for taking money to compensate him for abuse that never happened.

Today at Sheffield Crown Court, Beech has been ordered to pay £23,960 within three months or face an additional year in prison.

Adrian Phillips of the CPS said: “The compensation money given to Beech was meant to support him following the extensive, sustained torture by high profile people that he made up and described to police.

“Causing unimaginable distress to the men he falsely accused and the families caught up in his deception, he gladly took money from the authorities knowing he had fabricated the entire tale.

“Confiscating this money will not undo the harm of his lies, but it is the final step in making sure that Beech does not profit from the shameful false allegations he made.”

Notes to editors
Carl Beech (D.o.B.: 23/01/1968), of Gloucester, was convicted of 12 counts of perverting the course of justice and one count of fraud at Newcastle Crown Court on 22 July 2019. On 26 July 2019 he was sentenced to 18 years in prison
At Worcester Crown Court in January 2019, he admitted four counts of making indecent images of children, one count of possessing indecent images of children and one count of voyeurism.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/car...p-child-abuse-ring-ordered-pay-almost-ps24000
 
Interesting from 'Showbiz 411'
No clue what it's about...

@michaeljackson fans something nice is happening.
I'm sworn to secrecy for another few days. But it's positive for a change. Maybe I can say on Friday.
 
The new BAFTA Chairman (Krishnendu Majumdar) wrote his first 'letter to BAFTA members' today. It addresses lack of diversity and racism (in TV and film industries) and what BAFTA plans to do.

I hope this new Chairman will learn that 'LN' is a perfect reflection of the racist media.

'In a powerful letter to BAFTA members, Majumdar said: &#8220;It is no longer acceptable to be just non-racist: BAFTA must be unequivocally and actively anti-racist. Organizations can no longer stand back from societal issues.&#8221;

BAFTA is currently carrying out a major review to help improve representation in its film awards &#8211; which is being led by Majumdar &#8211; after widespread criticism for their lack of diversity earlier this year. The film nominations list featured an all-white acting field and no women directors.

Majumdar said the film nominations represented a &#8220;moment of reckoning&#8221; for BAFTA, showing that &#8220;we are a long way from where we want to be.&#8221;

Referring to the killing of George Floyd, Majumdar acknowledged that he is taking on the BAFTA role at a critical moment. &#8220;The horrific killing of George Floyd by a Minnesota policeman has ignited huge waves of anti-racist protests and demonstrations all over the world. I feel that every organization, including BAFTA, must play its role responding to this movement.&#8221;

https://variety.com/2020/film/global/bafta-george-floyd-krishnendu-majumdar-1234627854/
 
For those who recall Matt Lucas (UK comedian) and co's support on Twitter for 'Leaving Neverland':

Little Britain removed from BBC iPlayer, Netflix and BritBox due to use of blackface

'Little Britain' has been removed from all UK streaming platforms due to concerns about the use of blackface by its two stars, David Walliams and Matt Lucas. The comedy sketch show, which first aired in 2003 on BBC Three, has been removed from Netflix, BritBox and BBC iPlayer &#8211; with the pair&#8217;s follow up, Come Fly With Me, also taken down by Netflix for the same reason.

Little Britain has long been the subject of controversy for material including its &#8220;I&#8217;m a lady&#8221; sketches, where the pair don women&#8217;s clothes and facial hair, its depiction of &#8220;portly Thai bride&#8221; Ting Tong &#8211; played by Lucas &#8211; and Desiree DeVere, a black woman played by Walliams in full blackface.

The show has come under fire again recently amid renewed focus on issues of race and representation, at a time when Black Lives Matter protests are taking place across the globe.

The BBC confirmed to the Daily Mail, who first reported the story, that the show has been taken down as &#8220;times have changed&#8221;. &#8220;There&#8217;s a lot of historical programming available on BBC iPlayer, which we regularly review,&#8221; said a spokesperson for the broadcaster. &#8220;Times have changed since Little Britain first aired so it is not currently available on BBC iPlayer.&#8221;

Lucas, set to be the new host of Great British Bake Off on Channel 4, has previously expressed regret about some of the characters in the show. In a 2017 interview with the Big Issue, he said it was &#8220;lazy&#8221; to &#8220;get a laugh just by playing black characters&#8221;.

...BritBox, the streaming service which is a collaboration between the BBC and ITV, echoed the BBC statement, saying: &#8220;Times have changed since Little Britain first aired, so it is not currently available on BritBox. Come Fly With Me has not been available on the service for six months.&#8221;

A spokesperson for Netflix told the Guardian that the streaming giant had &#8220;no comment but can confirm that we removed both titles on Friday last week&#8221;.

The move comes after comedian Leigh Francis last week issued an apology for playing black celebrities, including Michael Jackson, Trisha Goddard and Craig David, on his sketch show Bo Selecta.

Francis, better known as Keith Lemon, said he had &#8220;done a lot of talking and learning&#8221; .

&#8220;Back in 2002 I did a show called Bo&#8217; Selecta, I portrayed many black people,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Back then I didn&#8217;t think anything about it, people didn&#8217;t say anything, I&#8217;m not going to blame other people &#8230; I didn&#8217;t realise how offensive it was back then.&#8221;

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...rom-bbc-iplayer-netflix-and-britbox-blackface
 
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Certainly not saying its a bad thing but to me its so tacky when they all start pulling things. These shows etc have been around for years. They didnt suddenly become offensive because of what happened to G.F. they were always offensive to many. the t.v channels etc havnt just realised they were offensive. They knew then but now feel like they have to act,like they care when in reality they dont. To me its just fake platitudes
 
elusive moonwalker;4293249 said:
Certainly not saying its a bad thing but to me its so tacky when they all start pulling things. These shows etc have been around for years. They didnt suddenly become offensive because of what happened to G.F. they were always offensive to many. the t.v channels etc havnt just realised they were offensive. They knew then but now feel like they have to act,like they care when in reality they dont. To me its just fake platitudes

Yep, and with this &#8220;times have changed&#8221; excuse (it's repeated 3 times in the above article :D) they act like it happened somewhere in the distant past, lol.

Plus, while I certainly don't feel sorry for Matt Lucas for tasting his own medicine, this is cancel culture too. Partly overreaction, partly laziness (hiding the phenomenon instead of e.g. initiating a conversation about it), and it will be predictably counterproductive and wouldn't help anything.
 
And the anti- MJ cancellations continue:

'The Mighty Boosh' featured Noel Fielding, who partnered with Sean Lennon for a negative music video featuring MJ and Bubbles in June 2016.
The League of Gentlemen featured Mark Gatiss, who posted distateful tweets about MJ in August 2012.

Netflix &#8216;axes The Mighty Boosh and The League of Gentlemen over blackface scenes&#8217;

Netflix is thought to have pulled The Mighty Boosh and The League Of Gentlemen from the streaming platform. Soon after bosses decided to axe Little Britain over the use of blackface in some sketches, the comedies have been &#8216;removed&#8217; from the service. According to the Guardian, Netflix found certain characters in both shows &#8216;problematic&#8217; as they were portrayed by white actors donning blackface. The personalities in question are Spirit of Jazz and Papa Lazarou, in The Mighty Boosh and League of Gentlemen respectively. It is not clear when Netflix decided to remove the shows from their slate.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/10/netf...tlemen-blackface-scenes-12835297/?ito=cbshare
 
Kanye Talks to Pharrell About Michael Jackson's Legacy, Says 'We Can&#8217;t Allow Any Company to Tear Down Our Heroes'

It's no secret Kanye West has had his fair share of media scrutiny. The 43-year-old multi-hyphenate has become one of the most divisive figures in entertainment, often praised for his musical genius and artistic vision, while frequently receiving backlash for his political musings and perceived egocentric nature. Ye touched on his polarizing persona during a recent interview with Pharrell for i-D Magazine, in which he drew parallels between his and Michael Jackson's treatment from the media.

"We should have something that says we can't allow any company to tear down our heroes. Not on The Shade Room, not on social media and especially not in documentaries," he told Pharrell for the outlet's "Faith in Chaos" issue. "I&#8217;m like every time the media isn&#8217;t happy with me it&#8217;s like, 'Here they go. They&#8217;re gonna come and ***** ***** me.' Which in some ways, they&#8217;ve tried to do."

Although Kanye didn't expand on his comment about "documentaries," it may be a reference to HBO's Leaving Neverland film, which explored the longstanding child sex abuse claims against Jackson.

Kanye also talked about being inspired by the King of Pop, and the ways in which he redefined black culture.

"It felt like you really tore down the walls and the doors much like Michael Jackson did a generation before," Kanye told Pharrell. "In a way, he&#8217;s very similar to Michael Jackson, in the ways where Michael Jackson was doing covert, super gangsta stuff, like he&#8217;d just pop the needles off. He kissed Elvis Presley&#8217;s daughter on MTV. Black culture used to be... we used to be fronting all night, but Michael was doing stuff that was different to what we were programmed to understand as being what we should do. He bought The Beatles&#8217; back catalogue. That was Mike Jackson, right there."

https://www.complex.com/music/2020/...xmag&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
 
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nextbigthing56;4293175 said:
Apparently it’s music related (not unreleased) and not to do with anything legal.

So it's illegal then?:/
 
myosotis;4289220 said:
Is there no end to this stupidity? Can we call this the 'peabrain award'??

Peabody Awards: 'American Factory,' 'Dickinson,' 'Watchmen' Among Nominees

Other noteworthy projects earning nods include 'Apollo 11,' 'Leaving Neverland,' 'Surviving R. Kelly,' 'Fleabag,' 'Ramy,' 'Succession,' 'Stranger Things,' 'Unbelievable' and 'When They See Us.'

The Peabody Awards board of jurors on Wednesday revealed its 60 nominees for the most compelling and empowering stories released in 2019 across TV, radio and digital media.

PBS scored the most nominations with 11; followed by HBO with seven; Netflix with five; Amazon with three; and Showtime, CNN, NBC News and podcast company Pineapple Street Studios scoring two each.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/peabody-awards-nominations-2020-list-full-1289403

-----------------------------------------------------------
Detail here:

2019 | Amos Pictures and HBO Documentary in association with Channel Four

Nominee
A brave if deeply troubling account from Dan Reed of pop legend Michael Jackson&#8217;s relationships with children, told through profiles of James Safechuck and Wade Robson, offering their accounts of being groomed for, suffering under, and attempting to recover from alleged abuse.

http://www.peabodyawards.com/award-profile/leaving-neverland

No win for 'Leaving Neverland', thank goodness (but it was bad enough that it was even nominated).

Peabody Awards: 'Watchmen,' 'Dickinson,' 'Stranger Things,' 'When They See Us' Among Winners

The organization has also named 'The Simpsons' and 'Frontline' as recipients of its institutional awards.
The Peabody Awards has named Watchmen, Dickinson, Stranger Things and When They See Us among this year's winners.

The other winners in the entertainment category are Chernobyl, David Makes Man, Fleabag, Ramy, Succession and Unbelievable.

The nods mark the first Peabody wins for Apple TV+ (Dickinson), which just launched in late 2019, and Oprah Winfrey's OWN network (David Makes Man).

Noteworthy documentary winners include Apollo 11; For Sama; Hale County This Morning, This Evening; Surviving R. Kelly; The Edge of Democracy; and True Justice: Bryan Stevenson's Fight for Equality.

The Peabody Awards has also named The Simpsons and Frontline as recipients of its institutional awards, given to programs that have made a significant impact on media programming and the cultural landscape. Those honors join this year's career achievement award, given to Cicely Tyson, which was announced on Monday.

&#8220;This year&#8217;s winners are a vibrant collective of inspiring, innovative, and powerful stories. True to the spirit and legacy of Peabody, our winners are also distinguished by the presence and resilience of many emerging and diverse voices,&#8221; Peabody executive director Jeffrey P. Jones said in a statement. &#8220;We are especially proud to celebrate Frontline as an unwavering source for truth through quality journalism when both are actively under attack, and The Simpsons, one of the most consistently funny and culturally important satirical sitcoms over the last three decades.&#8221;

PBS won the most awards this year, with seven, followed by HBO and Netflix with four wins each and CNN and NBC with two apiece.

The honored projects were selected from 60 nominees, unveiled in May, of the most compelling and empowering stories released in 2019 across TV, radio and digital media.

Jurors, including The Hollywood Reporter's editor-at-large Kim Masters, selected the winners out of nearly 1,300 entries. Nominees and winners must be unanimously chosen by the board of jurors.

Although judged earlier this spring, seven of this year's winners focus on racial issues within the criminal justice system, including True Justice, When They See Us, Watchmen and podcast In The Dark: The Path Home. Other winners that tackle police problems include Unbelievable, Unwarranted and A Different Kind of Force: Policing Mental Illness.

Peabody is also producing a special with PBS featuring a conversation with all 10 directors of this year's winning documentaries. Sundance director Tabitha Jackson will moderate panels with the filmmakers around the issues their projects explore. The program will be available on PBS' digital channels on Tuesday, June 23.

This year's Peabody Awards ceremony has been canceled due to the coronavirus pandemic but many recipients recorded video acceptance speeches, almost all of which were recorded prior to the recent worldwide protests in the wake of George Floyd's death.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/peabody-awards-winners-2020-full-list-1297836
 
myosotis;4293549 said:
And the anti- MJ cancellations continue:

'The Mighty Boosh' featured Noel Fielding, who partnered with Sean Lennon for a negative music video featuring MJ and Bubbles in June 2016.
The League of Gentlemen featured Mark Gatiss, who posted distateful tweets about MJ in August 2012.

Netflix ‘axes The Mighty Boosh and The League of Gentlemen over blackface scenes’

Netflix is thought to have pulled The Mighty Boosh and The League Of Gentlemen from the streaming platform. Soon after bosses decided to axe Little Britain over the use of blackface in some sketches, the comedies have been ‘removed’ from the service. According to the Guardian, Netflix found certain characters in both shows ‘problematic’ as they were portrayed by white actors donning blackface. The personalities in question are Spirit of Jazz and Papa Lazarou, in The Mighty Boosh and League of Gentlemen respectively. It is not clear when Netflix decided to remove the shows from their slate.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/10/netf...tlemen-blackface-scenes-12835297/?ito=cbshare

These BBC people in particular didn't act too bright (but the most disappointing is Sean Lennon). However, this cancel culture is getting ridiculous. While it's undeniably ironic that those are being cancelled now who wanted to cancel others, it's still wrong. And most importantly it will have a counterproductive effects.
 
ozemouze;4293593 said:
the most disappointing is Sean Lennon

I watched that video for the first time last night, and after the first moment of disbelief, I actually understood what he was trying to say with it, but the implementation of his idea is just terrible. Either way, he&#8217;s not really helping his friend&#8217;s reputation, because people don&#8217;t usually look at music videos in the way that Sean expects them to. And giving context in interviews isn&#8217;t enough because no one&#8217;s gonna read them anyway.
 
ScreenOrigami;4293595 said:
I watched that video for the first time last night, and after the first moment of disbelief, I actually understood what he was trying to say with it, but the implementation of his idea is just terrible. Either way, he’s not really helping his friend’s reputation, because people don’t usually look at music videos in the way that Sean expects them to. And giving context in interviews isn’t enough because no one’s gonna read them anyway.

Thank you. I thought this could be something like this, but TBH I'm tired of shifty double-talks trying to please "both sides" and appear all cool and independent while doing it. It's playing dumb acting all innocent when you're handing out material that can be easily interpreted negatively towards MJ. But at least using MJ generated some attention, I guess.
 
ChrisC;4293706 said:
What did Sean Lennon say?

His video is supposed to be a reflection of a reflection – and in that way it makes sense. But in my opinion the execution of his idea is still repulsive to watch and I don’t want to give it more of a platform here. It’s easy to google if you really want to know more. In this thread it’s offtopic anyway. ;)

:eek:fftopic:
 
What did Sean Lennon say?

He released a music video which was widely viewed as mocking MJ. There's a link and article at Rolling Stone.

In the video there's a bookshelf at about 12 secs which includes titles like 'The boy allies', Boy naturalist' (easily misread)- which create an initial impression.

The lyrics include 'Childhoods end, and bubbles burst', implying the end of illusions. Also 'We did not understand, Dancing with Peter Pan, What would be the result when we Turned into young adults.

If that is 'both-siding' about MJ , it's very heavily biased to one-side!

And as mentioned above, also off topic here
 
myosotis;4293709 said:
If that is 'both-siding' about MJ , it's very heavily biased to one-side!

And as mentioned above, also off topic here

Just one more thing, I don&#8217;t think it was meant to be that negative. Remember, he&#8217;s Yoko Ono&#8217;s son. Weird art runs in the family. I&#8217;ll give Sean the benefit of the doubt here, especially since he&#8217;s defended MJ after LN. Back on topic. :)
 
ScreenOrigami;4293710 said:
Just one more thing, I don’t think it was meant to be that negative. Remember, he’s Yoko Ono’s son. Weird art runs in the family. I’ll give Sean the benefit of the doubt here, especially since he’s defended MJ after LN. Back on topic. :)

Somehow I missed what he said about LN, can someone please summarize it?

:eek:fftopic: I agree with the weird art stuff (actually I vaguely remember reading his explanation, but didn't feel the need of having images of the video in my head), but still. He should know.
 
ozemouze;4293711 said:
Somehow I missed what he said about LN, can someone please summarize it?

:eek:fftopic: I agree with the weird art stuff (actually I vaguely remember reading his explanation, but didn't feel the need of having images of the video in my head), but still. He should know.


&#8220;Since when has a bit of respect and humility become so hard to come by? What happened to decency? To speak ill of a great man in the wake of his death, to do so is a most repugnant act. It brings shame upon all of us. Glass houses everywhere.
I&#8217;m talking about a close friend of my family, a great man who is a hero to many. He was also my friend personally so could you please take your &#8216;energy&#8217; elsewhere? No one is sainting a monster, we are celebrating a genius&#8217; life. We loved him. Millions loved him.&#8221;
&#8211; Sean Lennon

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Since when has a bit of respect and humility become so hard to come by? What happened to decency? To speak ill of a great man in the wake of his death, to do so is a most repugnant act. It brings shame upon all of us. Glass houses everywhere.</p>&mdash; Sean Ono Lennon (@seanonolennon) <a href="https://twitter.com/seanonolennon/status/1098246195900833793?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I&#8217;m talking about a close friend of my family, a great man who is a hero to many. He was also my friend personally so could you please take your &#8216;energy&#8217; elsewhere? No one is sainting a monster, we are celebrating a genius&#8217; life. We loved him. Millions loved him.</p>&mdash; Sean Ono Lennon (@seanonolennon) <a href="https://twitter.com/seanonolennon/status/1098257728844238850?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

EDIT: Forgot this one:

CB6bAW9W8AEduSf.jpg
 
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Fans may have seen a female UK journalist complaining on twitter on 12th June about MJ's 'Black or White' being played at a UK BLM protest, ending her comment 'apparently young boys don't matter'.

There were plenty of responses to her tweet (which was 'liked' 10k times), including MJ fan responses which opposed her view.

Fans may be interested to know that in May 2019, the UK Royal College of GPs (a kind of 'academic union' for family doctors) withdrew an invitation to her to speak at a conference because 'some of the views she has expressed are too much at odds with the core values of Royal College of GPs and our members, and our work to promote inclusivity within the profession and among patients'. Over 700 GPS petitioned against her invitation, one of them saying: ''I welcome the decision the RCGPs has taken to withdraw her invitation as her views are divisive, hateful and do not represent the diversity the medical profession represents''.

It is saddening that such people are allocated 'blue ticks' by twitter, when public figures with more inclusive views are not.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...f-gps-cancels-julia-hartley-brewer-invitation
 
10 000 likes for the journalists negative tweet? Oh my that comes in hard :-s

but compared with maybe 40 million adults in the UK, it's not so many..... Her kind are populist but not very 'popular' generally here.
She's a typical media controversialist / 'rabble-rouser' and this would be a typical 'dog whistle' for her kind of follower (ie the Reed-following kind).
 
It wasnt karen was it? You know freeman? Shes there for the entertainment value thats all.

Edit. Not her for a change
 
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It wasnt karen was it? You know freeman? Shes there for the entertainment value thats all.

Edit. Not her for a change

A quotable quote on twitter today from the journalist who has written more about LN than any other in the UK press...

I don't think I have ever seen such pure unadulterated hypocrisy.... :puke:

CYtOuMZ.jpg
 
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