Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[terrell]

That's why I'm here, since I got word of LN and saw it on tv I searched for a place to see the view from the other side but I only recently signed up here. I'm going to be very honest here, after I saw LN I was convinced MJ was guilty but after reading up some stuff here I started to doubt and when I saw the effort some people make (with all the documentaries etc) that doubt turned into positivity ( yes really ) but I'm very anxious to see some positive docs on tv now.
I'm really not interested in social media I once had a Facebook account but I realized I was only using it to lurk on other people's profiles and I hated doing that, so I signed out.

And this is ok; but a least you had the FAIRNESS to come here to want to seek what is true.

 

[JichaelMackson]

And this is ok; but a least you had the FAIRNESS to come here to want to seek what is true.

Of course, I grew up with MJ, he was my idol as a teenager. I have a very high interest in him as an artist. When I got into my college years I kind of stopped listening to him after I discovered other artists but I've come full circle and I'm very very much into MJ's music again like it was when I was a kid. My interest in his music has only grew stronger the last 2 or 3 years.

 

[terrell]

Also, when looking at MJ's case, ALWAYS ask yourself, "what does people have to gain by defending him on a serious accusation"? We have NOTHING TO GAIN. Then ask yourself, what does people have to gain by wanting to paint him guilty and twisting facts? $$$$$$$$$$$$. Enuf said

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Also, when looking at MJ's case, ALWAYS ask yourself, "what does people have to gain by defending him on a serious accusation"? We have NOTHING TO GAIN. Then ask yourself, what does people have to gain by wanting to paint him guilty and twisting facts? $$$$$$$$$$$$. Enuf said

:bow:

Exactly. all we gaining here is fight for innocent black man life and making his legacy live on. this what i'm gaining from this. us fans been doing it since 1993 and since Michael was alive.

though we all need to face the fact Michael has haters. he will forever have haters. just like the rest of us.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

And if you check out the comments, they’re all positive. Of course, sooner or later, the haters will find him and spam the comments, but so what? When does anyone ever read the comments section anyway? Let them rot in their own little hell and celebrate the music!

The comment section always been a problem on youtube etc. you can either disabled comments or delete comments. i try not look at the comment section on any social media because half of the time they bad. i think we need to realize that this is the internet. anyone can say and do whatever they want through outside internet i can bet you that somethings people say in the comments they won't say outside the internet.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

:clap:

He let children fall asleep after playing in his bedroom with their parents' permission and with the parents usually on site whether at Neverland or elsewhere eg in the kids own homes. He was doing nothing wrong and didn't change his behaviour because he wasn't doing anything wrong. He lived his young life in Gary sharing a bedroom with all his brothers (and probably cousins too from time to time) and he spent his teens - early 20's on tour living in hotel rooms with press, security, friends, approved admirers etc all visiting him in his room. Living in his room was his 'way of life', and it was ALWAYS unlike almost anyone else's.

He saw the accusations as money grabs, much the same as he saw the woman claiming to be Annie, or the woman who claimed she wrote Dangerous. The only way for him to definitively get away from money grabs should have been 'to die', but sadly that didn't make any difference. He was a target whatever he did and however he lived his life.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

:clap:

You make so much COMMON SENSE, myostis.

 

[myosotis]

You make so much COMMON SENSE, myostis.

Thank you, that's very kind!

The only thing that shocked me to my core about MJ, was reading the Jackson 5's tour schedules, and knowing from 'Moonwalker' etc that Michael's performing history had started much earlier than the tours, with the 'Chitlin circuit' and talent shows. He lived most of his life from a young age 'in front of other people', and his space at Neverland was no different. He invited lots of people there, including the local doctor (who wrote a book about his friendship with MJ) and that doctor confirmed that he would chat to MJ (or watch films) in his bedroom, sitting on his bed. It was MJ's normal.

Elizabeth Taylor was the same- she invited guests who were friends to visit her in her bedroom. She also performed from a young age, staying away from home, and continued living in hotels during her marriages eg to Richard Burton.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

People don’t spew hate about MJ because of MJ. They’re just hateful people that will jump onto anything that catches their attention and gives them a platform.

They are also always the same people. Report, block, and move on. Don’t comment on the haters, just leave a positive comment on the actual content.

Your right about this. they call trolls.

 

[Anna]

Can you guys please use the Edit Post and Multi Quote buttons. They're not there for decorative purposes. Cheers.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

He always had a fair share of ridicule to his name but it was jokingly, they joked he was a pedophile but it was for fun, it looked like people didn't really take it seriously. But laughing with MJ was made so easy and many many people did.

you're kind of right about that. through those jokes really hurt it Michael and put Michael through a lot.

Don’t listen to these radio stations then. Let them shovel their own grave. Use Spotify or YouTube.

i agree with ya.

 

[Anna]

I know this but I still get upset that people LIED about abuse. Not agreeing with MJ is one thing, but to use it to LIE on him for $$ which is clearly the case is my issue and there is no justification for doing that to MJ or anyone

It's understandable to be upset that he got screwed over. No one deserves that. My point is just that it all needs to be put into the proper perspective. Michael had personal responsibility, just like every other mentally competent person on the planet. He repeatedly made bad choices and he got very bad results. He was a key player in his own destruction and his family and fans were left with the task of endlessly trying to pick up the pieces. We can feel bad about things like LN, but we should also keep in mind the fact that it wouldn't have happened in the first place if Michael hadn't acted the way he did. He had a pattern of behaviour leading all the way to his death that seems to indicate he thought he could do whatever he wanted, with no regard for the consequences. Well no one is above consequences, no matter how famous they are.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

If Michael hadn't been so stubborn and continually put himself in a position where he could be screwed over again and again, we wouldn't be in this situation now, but it is the way it is. Michael didn't deserve to be screwed over of course, but he chose to publicly associate with young boys and let children sleep in his bedroom. The Chandler incident should have been the end of all that; he certainly knew what people thought of his behaviour at that point and how vulnerable he was, but he chose to continue. He made that choice.

I agree with you with this. after the first accident he should of been more caution on what he was doing. Michael was very naive. he should of been more careful who he surround himself with. through the whole thing isn't his fault. people made up stories about him being a pedo for money because they knew it would get them money. it's really sad they did that to him. he's not the only one. they do this a lot with other people as well for money. like Michael always said burn the tabloids.

He let children fall asleep after playing in his bedroom with their parents' permission and with the parents usually on site whether at Neverland or elsewhere eg in the kids own homes. He was doing nothing wrong and didn't change his behaviour because he wasn't doing anything wrong. He lived his young life in Gary sharing a bedroom with all his brothers (and probably cousins too from time to time) and he spent his teens - early 20's on tour living in hotel rooms with press, security, friends, approved admirers etc all visiting him in his room. Living in his room was his 'way of life', and it was ALWAYS unlike almost anyone else's.

He saw the accusations as money grabs, much the same as he saw the woman claiming to be Annie, or the woman who claimed she wrote Dangerous. The only way for him to definitively get away from money grabs should have been 'to die', but sadly that didn't make any difference. He was a target whatever he did and however he lived his life.

Agreed. Michael was a home body. he didn't really like being in public only if he really had to. let's not forget fans etc always mobbing him and following him everywhere he went. he liked it a lot of space.

Michael was always a easy target. poor man. may he r.i.p. i hope he's happy now.

Exactly. My grandmother was like MJ in that way. She let everyone in her room and lay in the bed because they where she liked to stay in most of the day with her tv. She just was not rich so someone can lie on her.

Same. my grandmother was the same way. of course they lied about Michael for that money. there even facts say they did. if Michael wasn't rich and famous half of those people wouldn't have the care about Michael. that's why they use him. i wish it stop. it's getting old and ridiculous and they know it.

I never understood why people made such an issue about the “bedroom”. What about people who live in a single-room apartment? They basically invite everyone into their bedroom. There’s really nothing special about a bedroom, unless someone’s whole thinking goes into a very specific direction.

I agree with this.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

He made bad choices and here we are still dealing with the fallout 11 years after his death.

Agreed.

That's not the point I'm trying to make. I hardly listen to the radio, perhaps one hour a day. What I described it what is happening, not listening to it doesn't make it go away. I honestly don't even care about it, I'm just voicing my opinion , that's all I do, it doesn't make or break my day at all.
There's a couple of users here that keep telling me what I should do, it's arrogant. Take a break, stop listening to the radio etc. As if I'm not able to think straight and be rational. I'm perfectly capable myself to decide what to do or don't.

Then why torture yourself?

Look I'm a bit of a recluse. I'm not very social and I don't have that craving for it either. I'm not part of instagram, Facebook, twitter any social media at all. I only get information from the newspapers/radio. So no I'm mostly not aware of anything like the stuff you just mentioned.

No wonder.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Well, if no one listens to them anymore, it will go away in the long run. The legacy media are struggling. We are many. Let’s just collectively walk away from them.

This is true and i agree.

And this is exactly why you don’t see the same picture as some others here. Might want to try and venture out of your comfort zone end explore. I can guarantee from my own experience that you can safely explore social media without having to socialize. Just be a lurker.

Agreed.

 

[PoP]

:bow:

Exactly. all we gaining here is fight for innocent black man life and making his legacy live on. this what i'm gaining from this. us fans been doing it since 1993 and since Michael was alive.

though we all need to face the fact Michael has haters. he will forever have haters. just like the rest of us.

And haters do is picking fights and some even got em’, if they ask for a fight then they got it, I’ve dealt with them at and I always tell them how stupid they be and needed to be educated more, either way they’ll always be pathetic kind of people I detest and they can go fk themselves for not getting the truth straight to their idiotic heads.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I know this but I still get upset that people LIED about abuse. Not agreeing with MJ is one thing, but to use it to LIE on him for $$ which is clearly the case is my issue and there is no justification for doing that to MJ or anyone

Agreed.

And this is ok; but a least you had the FAIRNESS to come here to want to seek what is true.

Agreed.

 

[terrell]

It's understandable to be upset that he got screwed over. No one deserves that. My point is just that it all needs to be put into the proper perspective. Michael had personal responsibility, just like every other mentally competent person on the planet. He repeatedly made bad choices and he got very bad results. He was a key player in his own destruction and his family and fans were left with the task of endlessly trying to pick up the pieces. We can feel bad about things like LN, but we should also keep in mind the fact that it wouldn't have happened in the first place if Michael hadn't acted the way he did. He had a pattern of behaviour leading all the way to his death that seems to indicate he thought he could do whatever he wanted, with no regard for the consequences. Well no one is above consequences, no matter how famous they are.

Oh I agree. I have said what you said. and I wait for the day these liars will pay for lying and taking advantage of the situation. That has consequences as well. Look, JC and family never will have peace along with the others who lied.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

The only thing that shocked me to my core about MJ, was reading the Jackson 5's tour schedules, and knowing from 'Moonwalker' etc that Michael's performing history had started much earlier than the tours, with the 'Chitlin circuit' and talent shows. He lived most of his life from a young age 'in front of other people', and his space at Neverland was no different. He invited lots of people there, including the local doctor (who wrote a book about his friendship with MJ) and that doctor confirmed that he would chat to MJ (or watch films) in his bedroom, sitting on his bed. It was MJ's normal.

Elizabeth Taylor was the same- she invited guests who were friends to visit her in her bedroom. She also performed from a young age, staying away from home, and continued living in hotels during her marriages eg to Richard Burton.

Michael whole life was base by working. he never really got a chance to relax and enjoy his life and childhood. that's explains a lot with neverland etc. he even said it himself a couple of times.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Michael was a poor black boy living in gary. as someone who is black/african american it is normal for all kids to sleep all in a room together. especially if you are poor.

see not a lot people understand this. Michael was use to that. back in the day kids use to spend the night at other people house etc. back then it didn't meant no harm because back then everybody knew each other and took care of one another. so i understand.

i think what happen was Michael should of been more careful who he hang around with. he was so native. he pretty much knew that not everyone was his friend and he trust it people too much. that was his nature but i wish he was more careful.

now this thing with kids being around Michael with their parents knowing. i don't see anything wrong with it either. the parents said it was fine soooo.....? who fault is it?

if the parents wasn't sure about it they shouldn't never let the kids stay at Michael place. heck they should of spend the night too if they wasn't sure.

Michael sometimes lay on the floor while he let the kids sleep in his bed. Michael had a different kind of heart that not a lot people has.

Michael is innocent. i feel he didn't do no wrong either.

if i had kids and if i knew Michael personal i would let them stay over his house for the night. just call me how they doing during their stay. it's no differences when people have sleepovers.

maybe i'm just old school. nowadays i don't think it's okay to do things like that anymore sadly. people really do ruin a lot of stuff. :\

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Michael was a poor black boy living in gary. as someone who is black/african american it is normal for all kids to sleep all in a room together. especially if you are poor.

see not a lot people understand this. Michael was use to that. back in the day kids use to spend the night at other people house etc. back then it didn't meant no harm because back then everybody knew each other and took care of one another. so i understand.

i think what happen was Michael should of been more careful who he hang around with. he was so native. he pretty much knew that not everyone was his friend and he trust it people too much. that was his nature but i wish he was more careful.

now this thing with kids being around Michael with their parents knowing. i don't see anything wrong with it either. the parents said it was fine soooo.....? who fault is it?

if the parents wasn't sure about it they shouldn't never let the kids stay at Michael place. heck they should of spend the night too if they wasn't sure.

Michael sometimes lay on the floor while he let the kids sleep in his bed. Michael had a different kind of heart that not a lot people has.

Michael is innocent. i feel he didn't do no wrong either.

if i had kids and if i knew Michael personal i would let them stay over his house for the night. just call me how they doing during their stay. it's no differences when people have sleepovers.

maybe i'm just old school. nowadays i don't think it's okay to do things like that anymore sadly. people really do ruin a lot of stuff. :\

 

[somewhereinthedark]

It's understandable to be upset that he got screwed over. No one deserves that. My point is just that it all needs to be put into the proper perspective. Michael had personal responsibility, just like every other mentally competent person on the planet. He repeatedly made bad choices and he got very bad results. He was a key player in his own destruction and his family and fans were left with the task of endlessly trying to pick up the pieces. We can feel bad about things like LN, but we should also keep in mind the fact that it wouldn't have happened in the first place if Michael hadn't acted the way he did. He had a pattern of behaviour leading all the way to his death that seems to indicate he thought he could do whatever he wanted, with no regard for the consequences. Well no one is above consequences, no matter how famous they are.

“If Michael hadn’t acted the way he did”. Hmm, I’m trying to decipher what that means. According to Frank Cascio, Michael made sure that no child ever stayed in his SUITE alone after the Chandler extortion. Although Michael knew that he had done nothing wrong, he didn’t want to take a chance with people being idiots and falsely accusing him. That is the reason Frank said either he or someone else was always in the SUITE if a GIRL or BOY asked their parent PERMISSION to stay in his SUITE.
Maybe Michael should have told these CHILDREN that they couldn’t come to his 2 bedroom, 3 bath SUITE. Of course, even with SOMEONE ELSE being in the same room, lying extortionist still made false allegations.

FTR, when the Arvizzos made the bogus allegations, Frank was in the Suite, the accuser’s BROTHER and SISTER and Michael’s son, Prince, also. When trash WR said he was first abused, his own sister was in the room. Finally, EVERY SINGLE PARENT OF EACH OF THESE CHILDREN WERE RIGHT THERE IN THE HOUSE OR STEPS AWAY.
.
Therefore, I’m wondering what “behavior” was wrong? Most of the time Michael was not even around the 2003 accuser OR the recent lying pieces of trash. Again, what “behavior” are we speaking of? Are we saying that it was inappropriate to invite hundreds and hundreds of children and their families to Neverland because We or the public thinks that it doesn’t look right? It wasn’t as if Michael was reckless, he lived his life as an INNOCENT man should have.

The PROBLEM was he was too damn trusting. That’s the fault that I see. He should have been a mean, evil SOB and never allowed any children around him. That seems to be the only thing that would have made people happy. Then people would have no excuses about Michael being the CAUSE of these extortions and fake allegations. They took the one thing that was good and honest and turned it against him. Oh well, what does it matter, it was HIS fault that these grifters and scam artist lied on him. Sarcasm intended!! SMDH!!

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

As someone who is special needs. i like children a lot. does that make me a bad person? Michael inviting people to neverland for a day or a night does that make him a bad person?

Michael was a innocent black man who loved children and fantasy. i don't think that was wrong at all. yes some people may see that as strange. but in reality it's perfectly fine.

Michael was different. he said he felt he was loneliness person in the world because no one understood him like he did.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I hope these okay.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It&#39;s not just that Robson defended Michael. He clearly grasped the nature of the relationship. What was, what wasn&#39;t, and what shouldn&#39;t. <br><br>That&#39;s a thought through perspective. He called the allegations &quot;sick&quot; at age 11 &amp; today claims he had no perspective through his 20&#39;s. <a href="https://t.co/6EERk5WcYP">pic.twitter.com/6EERk5WcYP</a></p>&mdash; Rasheed (@rasheedKOPV) <a href="https://twitter.com/rasheedKOPV/status/1252284593442414592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 20, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJackson</a> went thru the Legal system while facing a belligerent and biased media and in a country that is ALL too easily putting innocent black men in prison- was Acquitted on ALL fourteen trumped up CHARGES - <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FactsMatter?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FactsMatter</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThrowbackTuesday?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ThrowbackTuesday</a> <a href="https://t.co/lfsAgJo81l">pic.twitter.com/lfsAgJo81l</a></p>&mdash; MJJJusticeProject (@MJJJusticePrjct) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJJusticePrjct/status/1252727059731722242?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[elusive moonwalker]

&#8220;If Michael hadn&#8217;t acted the way he did&#8221;. Hmm, I&#8217;m trying to decipher what that means. According to Frank Cascio, Michael made sure that no child ever stayed in his SUITE alone after the Chandler extortion. Although Michael knew that he had done nothing wrong, he didn&#8217;t want to take a chance with people being idiots and falsely accusing him. That is the reason Frank said either he or someone else was always in the SUITE if a GIRL or BOY asked their parent PERMISSION to stay in his SUITE.
Maybe Michael should have told these CHILDREN that they couldn&#8217;t come to his 2 bedroom, 3 bath SUITE. Of course, even with SOMEONE ELSE being in the same room, lying extortionist still made false allegations.

FTR, when the Arvizzos made the bogus allegations, Frank was in the Suite, the accuser&#8217;s BROTHER and SISTER and Michael&#8217;s son, Prince, also. When trash WR said he was first abused, his own sister was in the room. Finally, EVERY SINGLE PARENT OF EACH OF THESE CHILDREN WERE RIGHT THERE IN THE HOUSE OR STEPS AWAY.
.
Therefore, I&#8217;m wondering what &#8220;behavior&#8221; was wrong? Most of the time Michael was not even around the 2003 accuser OR the recent lying pieces of trash. Again, what &#8220;behavior&#8221; are we speaking of? Are we saying that it was inappropriate to invite hundreds and hundreds of children and their families to Neverland because We or the public thinks that it doesn&#8217;t look right? It wasn&#8217;t as if Michael was reckless, he lived his life as an INNOCENT man should have.

The PROBLEM was he was too damn trusting. That&#8217;s the fault that I see. He should have been a mean, evil SOB and never allowed any children around him. That seems to be the only thing that would have made people happy. Then people would have no excuses about Michael being the CAUSE of these extortions and fake allegations. They took the one thing that was good and honest and turned it against him. Oh well, what does it matter, it was HIS fault that these grifters and scam artist lied on him. Sarcasm intended!! SMDH!!

Well said. If it wasnt a bedroom it would have been anywhere as safchuck made up. Mj was accused when he wasnt even around (arvizos) so how do you protect yourself from that.

 

[Anna]

&#8220;If Michael hadn&#8217;t acted the way he did&#8221;. Hmm, I&#8217;m trying to decipher what that means. According to Frank Cascio, Michael made sure that no child ever stayed in his SUITE alone after the Chandler extortion. Although Michael knew that he had done nothing wrong, he didn&#8217;t want to take a chance with people being idiots and falsely accusing him. That is the reason Frank said either he or someone else was always in the SUITE if a GIRL or BOY asked their parent PERMISSION to stay in his SUITE.
Maybe Michael should have told these CHILDREN that they couldn&#8217;t come to his 2 bedroom, 3 bath SUITE. Of course, even with SOMEONE ELSE being in the same room, lying extortionist still made false allegations.

FTR, when the Arvizzos made the bogus allegations, Frank was in the Suite, the accuser&#8217;s BROTHER and SISTER and Michael&#8217;s son, Prince, also. When trash WR said he was first abused, his own sister was in the room. Finally, EVERY SINGLE PARENT OF EACH OF THESE CHILDREN WERE RIGHT THERE IN THE HOUSE OR STEPS AWAY.
.
Therefore, I&#8217;m wondering what &#8220;behavior&#8221; was wrong? Most of the time Michael was not even around the 2003 accuser OR the recent lying pieces of trash. Again, what &#8220;behavior&#8221; are we speaking of? Are we saying that it was inappropriate to invite hundreds and hundreds of children and their families to Neverland because We or the public thinks that it doesn&#8217;t look right? It wasn&#8217;t as if Michael was reckless, he lived his life as an INNOCENT man should have.

The PROBLEM was he was too damn trusting. That&#8217;s the fault that I see. He should have been a mean, evil SOB and never allowed any children around him. That seems to be the only thing that would have made people happy. Then people would have no excuses about Michael being the CAUSE of these extortions and fake allegations. They took the one thing that was good and honest and turned it against him. Oh well, what does it matter, it was HIS fault that these grifters and scam artist lied on him. Sarcasm intended!! SMDH!!

For goodness sake, as I've already said, the behaviour I'm talking about is all the close relationships with young boys and letting kids sleep in his room and his bed. Some of you keep talking about the details and why it wasn't dodgy. I know the details, I know it wasn't dodgy! That's not my point. My point is that it looks like paedophile behaviour to the rest of society and Michael knew this.

Michael is responsible for his own actions and choices and the results.

 

[Thriller_MJ]

For goodness sake, as I've already said, the behaviour I'm talking about is all the close relationships with young boys and letting kids sleep in his room and his bed. Some of you keep talking about the details and why it wasn't dodgy. I know the details, I know it wasn't dodgy! That's not my point. My point is that it looks like paedophile behaviour to the rest of society and Michael knew this.

Michael is responsible for his own actions and choices and the results.

I agree. I am a long-term fan and i found it a little uncomfortable but i just put it to one-side and purely focused on Michaels music and performance. It's the one arguments haters have "but he shared his bed with children" and i can see why that would rub people the wrong way, it did with me for a time. I just ignore it now, unless something comes out that says "Ok, here is solid evidence Michael did this" then I'll always put the whole sleepover thing to one-side.

 

[myosotis]

For goodness sake, as I've already said, the behaviour I'm talking about is all the close relationships with young boys and letting kids sleep in his room and his bed. Some of you keep talking about the details and why it wasn't dodgy. I know the details, I know it wasn't dodgy! That's not my point. My point is that it looks like paedophile behaviour to the rest of society and Michael knew this.

Michael is responsible for his own actions and choices and the results.

In the past (when MJ was young) it was common for white people to make snide remarks about white folk who had black friends. It was common for 'hetero' people to make snide remarks about hetero people who had LGBTQ+ friends. It wasn't unusual for people of Christian religion to make snide remarks about people who had friends who belonged to other religions. Michael treated children respectfully as 'people'. I don't think anyone could have told him not to be seen with non-black or non-hetero or non-JW/or non- Christian friends, and I very much doubt he would have seen 'being asked not to associate with 'non-adult-friends-and-their-families' any differently. How many of us have been told that 'x' person was unsuitable as a friend? How many of us took any notice of that advice?

It seems unreasonable to ask a very devout man who was brought up in the 1950's to respect all creation as 'God's children' and who (even according to his accusers) 'lived in a non-reality bubble' to see the world through the corrupted eyes of the late 20th or early 21st century.

Edited to add: Michael's message was written on the gates of Neverland : 'Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense'- 'Shame to those who think evil of it', which is the motto of the Knights of the Garter (UK), so called because the King at the time picked up a lady's garter, which she had accidentally lost.

 

[Glanni]

i miss michael