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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

I was thinking that the Emmys seem to have gone unnoticed by the general public and I'd not seen anything on BBC... but I just saw an article. The title is the estate's reaction (a farce) so not as bad as it could be I suppose. It would obviously be better if it was not mentioned at all.

Michael Jackson estate calls Leaving Neverland's Emmy Award a 'farce'

"Michael Jackson's estate has called the decision to give Leaving Neverland the Emmy Award for best documentary a "complete farce".
Leaving Neverland, which first aired in March, focuses on two men who claim the pop superstar abused them as children.
"For a film that is a complete fiction to be honoured in a non-fiction Emmy category is a complete farce," the estate said in a statement.
It said there was "not one shred of proof" to support the show's claims.
Leaving Neverland earned a total of five nominations ahead of the weekend's Creative Arts Emmys, and it went on to win outstanding documentary or non-fiction special.

The controversial film, directed by Dan Reed, includes interviews with Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who were aged seven and 10 when the singer befriended them and their families.
When the Emmy nominations were first announced, Reed said the recognition meant a great deal to all involved.
"Since Leaving Neverland aired in March, it has launched many important conversations about child sexual abuse and the grooming that accompanies it," he said. "This was why James Safechuck and Wade Robson and their families spoke out, and why we made the documentary.
"We're delighted that the Academy has honoured that purpose."

*links*
Jackson estate attacks 'lurid' documentary
Jermaine Jackson: 'Michael is innocent'
Channel 4 rejects Jackson doc complaint

But after the win, the Jackson estate said in a statement to The Hollywood Reporter: "Not one shred of proof supports this completely one-sided, so-called documentary which was made in secrecy and for which not one person outside of the two subjects and their families were interviewed."
After Leaving Neverland's premiere in January at the Sundance Film Festival, Jackson's estate called the project "a tabloid character assassination" and insisted it "isn't a documentary"."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49725926
 
From a fan on Twitter:

''... an interesting issue about Wade. Why didn't he attend?....''

__________________________________________________________

Robson "probably" had a LIST OF DEMANDS that The Emmys/HBO denied. LOL.
 
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WannaScream said:
I was thinking that the Emmys seem to have gone unnoticed by the general public and I'd not seen anything on BBC... but I just saw an article. The title is the estate's reaction (a farce) so not as bad as it could be I suppose. It would obviously be better if it was not mentioned at all.
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In my opinion, their little Emmy win didn't get as much attention as they wanted.

Folks in the media know what time it is, they're just NOT ALLOWED to say what time it is. The majority of them have seen the same things we have seen since this mockumentary was released (case in point: they ALL know about The Train Station Story), but because of the powers that be, they have to tow the line OR be out of a job. And even if they dare put something in a story that is Pro-MJ, their editor has the final say.

And then they have the nerve to wonder why the majority of the general public no longer trust the media!
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MJFam?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MJFam</a> This is important. Please read. <a href="https://t.co/LFW1dFiBhT">https://t.co/LFW1dFiBhT</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1173995715019694080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">17. September 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a a great point. HBO SPONSORED Spike Lee's BK Loves MJ block party five months before Leaving Neverland aired! <a href="https://t.co/SD6H42Zsvp">https://t.co/SD6H42Zsvp</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1173801518828384256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">17. September 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I think the guys at <a href="https://twitter.com/ETCanada?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ETCanada</a> are convinced by now that <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverlandIsaFraud?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverlandIsaFraud</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DanReedIsAFraud?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DanReedIsAFraud</a> and that Safechuck + Robson are liars but they want to keep their jobs so they won't call them out <a href="https://t.co/TnyVEbcEzl">pic.twitter.com/TnyVEbcEzl</a></p>&mdash; Shahbanu &#128081; (@ZoroastersChild) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZoroastersChild/status/1173731797944995847?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16. September 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Michael Jackson's estate responded to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverland?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverland</a>'s Emmy win in a statement to THR: &quot;For a film that is a complete fiction to be honored in a nonfiction Emmy category is a complete farce.&quot; Read it in full: <a href="https://t.co/0JxQ159UcQ">https://t.co/0JxQ159UcQ</a></p>&mdash; Hollywood Reporter (@THR) <a href="https://twitter.com/THR/status/1173850834620342272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">17. September 2019</a></blockquote>
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https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/michae...tle-boys-butts-comment-report-news.90928.html

Michael Jackson's Nephew Blasts 50 Cent For "Little Boys' Butts" Comment: Report

There has been an unusual amount of online discourse that continues being brought up by the likes of 50 Cent, regarding who is a better performer between Michael Jackson and Chris Brown. For many of us, the question isn't even up for debate. MJ wins in a landslide. That's not taking anything away from Breezy either -- the man is one of the greatest artists on this planet. He's extraordinarily talented. But he's not the King of Pop. Fiddy was trying to argue that the Virginia native is a stronger star than Jackson ever was and when the legend's daughter Paris got involved, he made a disgusting comment about the countless sexual molestation claims made against the pop star.

"Why am I the bad guy," asked 50 in a social media upload. "I understand how you feel Paris, but does anyone care about how the little boys butts feels."

Of course, the comment was met with a lot of backlash and, understandably, the post has been deleted. TJ Jackson, MJ's nephew, has reportedly provided a response to the issue via All Hip Hop, stating that he doesn't see the superstar rapper in the same light. "I loved 'In Da Club' and some other 50 Cent songs, but I lost a lot of respect for him," said TJ in an unconfirmed report. "A lot of respect, for many reasons. I just don&#8217;t think it was cool to attack my uncle without doing any research on the truth. Then for him to attack my younger cousin who has to deal with all this, is even more immature and more disgusting. Hopefully, he&#8217;ll mature and see more of a respectful side, but it is what it is."
 
Big Apple NYC said:
From a fan on Twitter:

''... an interesting issue about Wade. Why didn't he attend?....''

__________________________________________________________

Robson "probably" had a LIST OF DEMANDS that The Emmys/HBO denied. LOL.
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I asked the very same question, tbh I thought it would have been robson that would have attended, there must be a reason for why he wasn't there, I hope we get to find out. when the court case gets thrown out again what happens after that, are them two just going to crawl back under the rock they crawled out of?
 
Big Apple NYC said:
They may have won 1 award, but in my opinion, Reed was denied what he REALLY wanted. That being the "Director's" Award. Wining that Director's Award would have afforded Reed the opportunity to do a brand new round of interviews, wherein he could proclaim what a great director he is. Because, as far as I'm concerned, all he wants is acclaim for himself, he doesn't care about Safechuck or Robson. After all that press. After HBO's big Emmy push. All they got was 1 lousy award. EPIC FAIL!!!!!!

They threw that dog a bone, but it wasn't the bone that dog wanted!
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Agreed; I've thought about this a lot. I honestly don't know if Reed actually believes the accusations anymore (if he ever really did) or if he's just digging in his heels at this point to make himself look good. He can talk all he wants about "bringing closure" or "making others feel safe to report," but this has always been all about him, at least in his mind.

Something else that still really bothers me: the fact that he's said before that he chooses what movies and shows to make based on what turns him on. (IIRC, he said that in reference to his Pedophile Hunter show from a few years ago.) I really hope someone brings that up if/when he does any Q&A sessions about the Emmy.
 
Nantucket Cat said:
Agreed; I've thought about this a lot. I honestly don't know if Reed actually believes the accusations anymore (if he ever really did) or if he's just digging in his heels at this point to make himself look good. He can talk all he wants about "bringing closure" or "making others feel safe to report," but this has always been all about him, at least in his mind.
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For me, its the latter.

I mean, look how quickly he answered for Safechuck, when the Train Station Story came out. In his efforts to try and save his little lie project, he threw Safechuck under the bus.

In my opinion, he wasn't trying to save Safechuck, he was trying to save himself. And in his efforts to save himself, he not only damaged Safechuck's lawsuit, he also gave cause for folks to look at Safechuck's bogus claims a little closer.
 
Nantucket Cat said:
Agreed; I've thought about this a lot. I honestly don't know if Reed actually believes the accusations anymore (if he ever really did) or if he's just digging in his heels at this point to make himself look good. He can talk all he wants about "bringing closure" or "making others feel safe to report," but this has always been all about him, at least in his mind.

Something else that still really bothers me: the fact that he's said before that he chooses what movies and shows to make based on what turns him on. (IIRC, he said that in reference to his Pedophile Hunter show from a few years ago.) I really hope someone brings that up if/when he does any Q&A sessions about the Emmy.
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I am telling you, Dan is hiding something about himself. He has a smirk on his face too much on this issue.
 
terrell said:
I am telling you, Dan is hiding something about himself. He has a smirk on his face too much on this issue.
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I'm with you on that one, terrell. I suspect he's a pedophile himself. What kind of person, especially a grown man, would fantasize about a child sexually? Also, that "Fatal Attraction" thing they had about Michael... just saying...
 
Carmour260 said:
I'm with you on that one, terrell. I suspect he's a pedophile himself. What kind of person, especially a grown man, would fantasize about a child sexually? Also, that "Fatal Attraction" thing they had about Michael... just saying...
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He's definitely got issues I'm just sure what they are, all three are obsessed with MJ that much is true. I know Reed knows Michael didn't do anything and them two have made it up. It feels to me like it's just a game now
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Jesus christ.

While that one is apparently very real, very hard to watch and very credible with believeable things being said by the actual victims. Unlike these fake victims in LN making a mockery of real abuse victims.

Hollyweird is just so damn vile.
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I saw it.

For a person watching it who doesn't know about either case there isn't much differentiation between them in terms of how persuasive or effective they are. So it's not any more convincing than Leaving Neverland IMO. However it IS better than LN because it's only half the length and does the same job. LN was bloated.

Untouchable had audio of Harvey, but LN audio had audio of MJ. It was edited out of context. I don't know about the Harvey audio.
It had photos, so did LN.
It had stories from victims. So did LN.
It had stories from others who had been told about events, so did LN.

Untouchable didn't provide any real evidence, nor did LN.

There was one lady in there who was clearly (IMO) acting her interview. now whether or not what she was saying was true or not, I have no idea. But if she was being truthful she undermined it by over acting. That's all I'm going to say on it.
For the other ladies, well I'm not going to judge.


This is the difficulty we face with LN.
People expect a documentary to be honest but LN wasn't. I have no idea if Untouchable was.
People DONT expect there to be any real evidence to back up claims of historic abuse because usually there isn't going to be any, so they rely on the accusers being truthful and as we know in LN that isn't always the case, but I only know that because I read court documents. I haven't for Unbreakable.

One clear indicator of strength for the case against Harvey is the number of women involved, and this echos other similar allegations of abuse. BUT after MJ's case this hasn't happened, even if you choose to believe Jacobshagen. even if you choose to ignore the not guilty verdict and include Arvizo, Chandler, and Francia as victims.
 
Anna said:
Untouchable is a powerful documentary, I would definitely recommend it. The accusers seem very genuine. One part that particularly struck me was a story of how Weinstein attacked a reporter - and this happened in front of a crowd and a ton of flashing cameras - but those pictures never made the papers. It just perfectly summed up the influence that the Hollywood elite have over the media. This quote from Weinstein was caught on tape by the reporter right before the assault: "I'm glad I'm the f*****g sheriff of this s**t-ass f*****g town."

Crazy.
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To me that audio didn't sound like Weinsein. I'm not saying it's not for sure (I'm no expert on his voice), but it doesn't match the description given in the documentary.

Listen again.

It was a man speaking with NO noise in the background. It was silent. That's not a recording from a crowded area with cameras flashing and a lot of fuss. Wouldn't you expect some background chatter at the least?

So something doesn't add up.
 
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MJTruth said:
To me that audio didn't sound like Weinsein. I'm not saying it's not for sure (I'm no expert on his voice), but it doesn't match the description given in the documentary.

Listen again.

It was a man speaking with NO noise in the background. It was silent. That's not a recording from a crowded area with cameras flashing and a lot of fuss. Wouldn't you expect some background chatter at the least?

So something doesn't add up.
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It might just be a recreation of the original audio. But the recording was made inside, before they went outside and people starting crowding around to take photos, so it could have just been cleaned up.
 
Yikes.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I&#8217;ll be just fine without them. They need to leave me alone. Michael Jackson told me this was gonna happen and he was right. <a href="https://t.co/7F6Oy9frt2">https://t.co/7F6Oy9frt2</a></p>&mdash; Aaron Carter (@aaroncarter) <a href="https://twitter.com/aaroncarter/status/1174116896372748289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/mentalhealth?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#mentalhealth</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GunControlNow?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GunControlNow</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GunControl?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GunControl</a> <a href="https://t.co/q280ClqyjI">pic.twitter.com/q280ClqyjI</a></p>&mdash; Nick Carter (@nickcarter) <a href="https://twitter.com/nickcarter/status/1174103645656363009?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 17, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp></code></samp>
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I really wish these Carter Brothers would keep their personal FAMILY drama, off of Social Media. It's unnecessary and embarrassing!!!

AND I also wish that Aaron would keep Michael Jackson's name out of his mouth.

I'm starting to see commercials for the upcoming reality show, Aaron and Corey Feldman will be on and it looks like a train wreck in the making. Aaron looks like a hot mess and Corey is trying his best to channel MJ (in his appearance). It appears that they will be running neck-in-neck with the crazy antics and BS stories. There may even be a fight!!

I won't be watching, but I'm sure we will hear all about it regardless.
 
Big Apple NYC said:
I really wish these Carter Brothers would keep their personal FAMILY drama, off of Social Media. It's unnecessary and embarrassing!!!

AND I also wish that Aaron would keep Michael Jackson's name out of his mouth.

I'm starting to see commercials for the upcoming reality show, Aaron and Corey Feldman will be on and it looks like a train wreck in the making. Aaron looks like a hot mess and Corey is trying his best to channel MJ (in his appearance). It appears that they will be running neck-in-neck with the crazy antics and BS stories. There may even be a fight!!

I won't be watching, but I'm sure we will hear all about it regardless.
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Yeah I'm pretty much about done with Aaron too. NOW he can put MJ in a positive light, but WHY the weird reaction when a paparazzi asked him about his book and whether it would contain something about MJ. The way he twisted around the whole thing and clearly bringing doubt about Mike's innocence in a time that was already so ****ed up.

Nah Aaron.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Reminder: Tomorrow is the court hearing (9/19/19) for the MJ Estate v HBO. We hope to finally get a ruling for arbitration on that day or a few days afterward.</p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1174338306240180224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">18. September 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes but to also claim anything with 100% certainty to the case would show bias to neutrals who are looking for objective research. My full quote clearly shows more context. <a href="https://t.co/CoME2gw2qb">https://t.co/CoME2gw2qb</a> <a href="https://t.co/ZPGqc2fjmc">pic.twitter.com/ZPGqc2fjmc</a></p>&mdash; Danny Wu (@dannywuyue) <a href="https://twitter.com/dannywuyue/status/1173470426581745664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16. September 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just watched Michael Jackson chasing the truth. Brilliant and there is no way he abused any of them little bastards.<br><br>I knew it from day one, it's all about the dollar <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJackson</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChasingTheTruth?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChasingTheTruth</a></p>&mdash; Zaff (@Zaff33) <a href="https://twitter.com/Zaff33/status/1173380679758950401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">15. September 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Two weekends in a row (maybe more that I don&#8217;t know of) they&#8217;ve hade an 80&#8217;s theme on a Swedish &#55356;&#56824;&#55356;&#56810; radio station (MixMegapol) and guess which artist was played more times than any other artist?!?! No one else than The King Michael Jackson!!! Approximately one MJsong per hour &#10084;&#65039; <a href="https://t.co/ZdjK6X6rXd">pic.twitter.com/ZdjK6X6rXd</a></p>&mdash; Therése (@RavenTezz) <a href="https://twitter.com/RavenTezz/status/1172545423740932097?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 13, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
I'll just leave this here.
Apologies if it's already been posted, this is a hard topic to keep track of.

70440567_10156754478742725_5304608060252094464_n.jpg
 
Aaron Carter needs professional psychiatric help. He exhibits many symptoms of mental illness in his public behaviour. I hope he gets it.
 
ChrisC said:
Aaron Carter needs professional psychiatric help. He exhibits many symptoms of mental illness in his public behaviour. I hope he gets it.
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He's not doing things by halves is he? I don't think I've seen such a prolonged meltdown on Twitter. Hopefully he has some sensible people around him to encourage him to get professional help.
 
:clap:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">that the reason the Estate did not have to argue is because the Estate WON. Steinsapir told the fan to tell fans that the Estate IS going to arbitration! <a href="https://twitter.com/karmousaG?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KarmousaG</a> is the fan and we THANK HER!!! Wooo hoooo <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Arbitration?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Arbitration</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1174748745793036288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
I always knew it was all about the money. i don't really need to watch a doc to know it was. i'm just doing it for us fans etc.
 
Don't celebrate yet, folks.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So I&#39;ve gotten a message that wants me to remind fans that the judge&#39;s ruling is tentative. Although I feel this is a win for the Estate, I never want to be accused of reporting anything that isn&#39;t 100%. At this point, the ruling for arbitration is tentative, to be clear.</p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1174797726195707905?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>
 
Michael Jackson songs pulled from primary school teaching materials in wake of child abuse allegations

A company that supplies music lesson resources to around half the primary schools in England removed all mentions of the late pop star from its teaching material.

Charanga took the decision earlier this year, following the release of the Netflix documentary Leaving Neverland, which detailed claims from Wade Robson and James Safechuck that they were abused by him as young boys.

Mark Burke, director of Charanga, said: "In light of the allegations made against Michael Jackson in March, we felt it inappropriate to promote or share his content with our users.

“We therefore removed it from our platform immediately. As a cloud-based service, our removing this content meant it was no longer able to be used by anyone using the service."

Earlier this year, the executive producer of The Simpsons announced that a “treasured” episode featuring the voice of Michael Jackson is to be removed from television in response to the Leaving Neverland documentary.

James L Brooks, the producer, said he had agreed with Matt Groening and Al Jean, the creators, that it should not be shown again, despite it having been one of their favorite episodes.

Mr Brooks said that the episode could no longer remain in circulation in light of the "monstrous behavior" described in the film.

Some radio stations in Canada, Australia and New Zealand have banned Jackson records, but there have been no announcements by British stations.

Thriller Live, the West End show, has no plans to close. The Jackson family have denied the allegations, describing them as "all about the money".

The singer, who died in 2009, still has his defenders, including Mark Lester, the British former child actor who starred in Oliver! and later formed a friendship with Jackson.

He said of Leaving Neverland: "It made me feel quite sick. This is not the Michael Jackson that I knew for over 30 years. This is not the man that my children knew."

Jackson's daughter, Paris, spoke out on social media to urge fans to be "calm" in their response. She appeared to defend her father when she said that "lies" are told about "everyone with a good heart", adding: "Do you really think that it's possible to tear his name down?"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ngs-pulled-primary-school-teaching-materials/
 
Here's another thing I don't understand. Michael has been constantly trashed over the allegations for 26+ years. For all the negative public perception about him for all that time up until the end of last year, nobody was really canceling him out even with the onset of #MeToo. But it took LN to get some places to start yanking his brand from their platforms? People were making claims that were just as horrible when Michael was still alive. Sure, his sales took a dive. But at least there wasn't all this crap about scrubbing his work from the face of the earth.
 
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