Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"></code></samp><samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This week&#8217;s WATZ podcast is mostly about providing analysis of Tiger Woods winning the Masters that you will NOT hear elsewhere &amp; whether the Easter Bunny might kill Santa. <br><br>Michael Jackson fans will be interested in an announcement at the top of the show <a href="https://t.co/77ayv78atR">https://t.co/77ayv78atR</a></p>&mdash; John Ziegler (@Zigmanfreud) <a href="https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/1119695309183938560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Announcement details start at the 2:28 mark. Apparently John Ziegler's interview with Tom Mesereau will be out sometime in the coming week. Saturday at the latest.
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I wrote to Lynn and told her about if she is going to believe 2 liars, she should not be on the project and if she is going to discuss the "claims, she better talk about the lies and how the families lie, court doc of people admitting to lying, MJ harsh investigation even with an FBI investigation, etc; if she can not do show EVERYTHING, Lynn needs to sit her @$$ down and do not do none of it. And I told her, We ALL ARE FLAWED and just becaiuse we are flawed does NOT mean MJ was an abuser, if that is the case, we ALL can be labeled when we are lied on INCLUDING HER.

I disagree that fans should tell this woman anything at all, least of all how to think or what to write. It's between her and the Estate, with whom she has a contract. (I do think it was fair for fans to ask her if the DM quotes were accurate.)

It's disappointing if her interview with Bamigboye correctly conveyed her views about the LN film. We don't have that confirmation, and if it is confirmed, there is nothing we (as fans) can do about it. Her views are her views, and if she is not willing to listen to the Estate's case (which is fully in defence of Michael - we have seen their letter to HBO which begins 'Michael is innocent'), then clearly 'her' interpretation of MJ as a person will not be the same as the Estate's / MJ musical colleagues / fans /MJ friends and MJ family's interpretation of MJ as a person, and so it is unlikely her interpretation will get any financial support or will see the light of day.

It's unfortunate that her interview appeared in the press at the start of a 4-day holiday, and it is unlikely that the matter will be cleared up until the holiday break is over and the Estate can 'clear the air', one way or the other. I think think the Estate will need (and want) to do so as soon as they can.
 
Did someone download the full HBO version from LN?

More and more uploads seamed to be delated or blocked in the last days on youtube.

There are only a few you can find and these seamed to be not the original version cause they have subtitles or voiceovers in other languages.

I find it absolutly great that these many uploads of this childporngraphic fiction movie are not existing any more and that this spam of download links everyday had also stoped but we all need a source of the movie to debunk and anlysis the it and it schould be on YouTube and not on illegal streaming plattforms who would make money out of the it for the advertising on that page.

So I thought about if someone here who has a very small youtube channel can do a NON LISTED upload of the full HBO Version for us and link it in the thread with LN Transcript.
 
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gerryevans;4255672 said:
I'm willing to overlook Alicia and give Lynn the benefit of the doubt about comments tabloids are attributing to her, because we do know tabloids will blatantly lie and with quotes.
The problem may be not that she’s misquoted, but that she’s selectively quoted. Her full answers may well be more complex and nuanced, and the writer has cherry-picked sentences that he feels ‘work’ for the article. When she talks about the dark side, the article gives the impression she means child molestation, but she could also be talking about the issue of chemical dependency or the psychological toll of extreme fame.

The thing is this is much too important a project for there to be ANY doubt about where Lynn stands. She should state emphatically her belief in MJ or move the heck on. More than ever, the people now who'll be largely buying tickets will be his fans. Those who may have been indifferent and supported MJ ventures in the past, might NOT buy a ticket to his show now. It will be largely us.
I agree that she should clarify her stance. Not only are we not going to want to buy a ticket to a show about a child molester, no one else will either. Besides, if she’s that off the mark about who Michael was, her interpretation will be simply meaningless. When I consider his life, I see a guy who suffered as a child and grew up to vow to do everything he could to stop other children from suffering. That caused him to reach out to at-risk people, which actually put him in danger, but he persisted due to its deep emotional importance to him. If she could capture that, she might really have something. It’s not that she isn’t entitled to her own take on the situation, it’s more that his public image has been so much about other people’s projection for so many years. I crave some genuine insight for a change.
 
I disagree that fans should tell this woman anything at all, least of all how to think or what to write. It's between her and the Estate, with whom she has a contract. (I do think it was fair for fans to ask her if the DM quotes were accurate.)

It's disappointing if her interview with Bamigboye correctly conveyed her views about the LN film. We don't have that confirmation, and if it is confirmed, there is nothing we (as fans) can do about it. Her views are her views, and if she is not willing to listen to the Estate's case (which is fully in defence of Michael - we have seen their letter to HBO which begins 'Michael is innocent'), then clearly 'her' interpretation of MJ as a person will not be the same as the Estate's / MJ musical colleagues / fans /MJ friends and MJ family's interpretation of MJ as a person, and so it is unlikely her interpretation will get any financial support or will see the light of day.

It's unfortunate that her interview appeared in the press at the start of a 4-day holiday, and it is unlikely that the matter will be cleared up until the holiday break is over and the Estate can 'clear the air', one way or the other. I think think the Estate will need (and want) to do so as soon as they can.

That makes a lot of sense. The estate is indeed in full defense of Michael, they clearly don't share her views. As you said, it's unlikely her view will be financially supported. Because if they DO let this happen they are just completely working against themselves. On one hand going against HBO, and on the other hand greenlighting a project where a a part depicts him as a monster.

They will make themselves look like huge fools, that indeed seems extremely unlikely. So they will probably tell her to leave it be is my guess. What is her position at the estate? I mean Branca has the final say, doesn't he?
 
It's all about money for the Estate. They wont fire her because they will lose money by postponing it and having to hire someone else.
 
I come further with my reasarches about the pictures and videomatirial in LN.

I want present you something interesting about Michaels time in London in July 1988.

MJ and James visited together the Gide Hall event in London on July 20 1988
(ALL pictures with James wearing grey and has long hairs are from this event)

Proof:

http://www.billiejean.be/Today_In_History/Today_In_History_July1.html

AND


James performes also with MJ in Wembley July 16 1988 at the end of the song Bad.

Proof at around 1:47:00


BUT

Michael arrives in Heathrow ALONE (without James or the Safechucks) on July 11 1988


MJ went NOT with James or the Safechucks

On July 16, 1988 to the event for Prince's Trust charity in London, England were MJ met Charles and Diana

https://www.gettyimages.de/detail/video/nachrichtenfilmmaterial/83361193

AND

Michael is visiting the Great Ormond Street Hospital in London WITHOUT James or the Safechucks

Proof:

https://www.google.de/search?q=Mic...hUixaYKHfA9DgcQ_AUoAnoECAwQAg&biw=588&bih=367

This discredit James claim that MJ and him were so in love and close to each other that they were together ALL THE TIME after MJ would start abusing him.
 
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Happy Easter Y'all!

94GnKG3.jpg
 
It's all about money for the Estate. They wont fire her because they will lose money by postponing it and having to hire someone else.

Their original response told me all I needed to know. They went on the defensive and tried to tell us off. If they do not fire her then I am done with them. I hope they are ready to burn bridges with the remainder of the fan base of this is the case. Someone on another forum brought up the fact that the casual fans may no longer go to shows like this after LN so who else are they gonna rely on when they alienate us?
 
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Their original response told me all I needed to know. They went on the defensive and tried to tell us off. If they do not fire her then I am done with them. I hope they are ready to burn bridges with the remainder of the fan base of this is the case. Someone on another forum brought up the fact that the casual fans may no longer go to shows like this after LN so who else are they gonna rely on when they alienate us?

It struck me that this may be an attempt to appeal directly to the public by acknowledging this shit, rather than it being some kind of fan celebration in tone. I wondered if they felt this was this only way to get a project of this scale off the ground and profitable...

Perhaps the Estate are changing tact from catering to us to attempting to appeal to the rest. Risky strategy.

I'd find it absurd if they kept her. I was planning on flying to NYC for it. Not now.
 
It struck me that this may be an attempt to appeal directly to the public by acknowledging this shit, rather than it being some kind of fan celebration in tone. I wondered if they felt this was this only way to get a project of this scale off the ground and profitable...

Perhaps the Estate are changing tact from catering to us to attempting to appeal to the rest. Risky strategy.

I'd find it absurd if they kept her. I was planning on flying to NYC for it. Not now.

I wouldn't mind them acknowledging that this stuff happened, as it did, but this woman should not be the one to do it, she clearly has no understanding of mj as a person or artist. I don't think they will fire her. They are already developing it and won't want to start again. Also money, as per usual.
 
I wouldn't mind them acknowledging that this stuff happened, as it did, but this woman should not be the one to do it, she clearly has no understanding of mj as a person or artist. I don't think they will fire her. They are already developing it and won't want to start again. Also money, as per usual.

Baffling though. Employing someone who supports the very people who have taken your entire brand to the brink of extinction! You couldn't make this up.
 
Baffling though. Employing someone who supports the very people who have taken your entire brand to the brink of extinction! You couldn't make this up.

Hopefully they'll release a statement after the holiday clearing this up and apologising for treating the fans like asses. If they don't fire her than I don't really see how they're expecting this to be as successful as they want it to be. A lot of fans will not go and see it.
 
It's all about money for the Estate. They wont fire her because they will lose money by postponing it and having to hire someone else.

That's the sad reality. But surely they will have the common sense to talk sense into her about not covering the allegations in the ways she seems to want to? Surely someone higher up can just deny her that?
 
Hopefully they'll release a statement after the holiday clearing this up and apologising for treating the fans like asses. If they don't fire her than I don't really see how they're expecting this to be as successful as they want it to be. A lot of fans will not go and see it.

I would only go see it if the musical is actually worth it, if it's being treated with respect and truthfully. How do they even intend to portray the horrible allegations, how it affected Michael? Is some actor gonna actually play that part? The ones at the estate with the final say can't be that stupid to just let her go through with her vision. So she believes Wade and James, is she now planning on actually having that bullshit in the musical too?

Very few fans will pay money if that's the case. Let's hope the people with the final say use common sense.
 
RedMaryFlint;4255792 said:
The problem may be not that she’s misquoted, but that she’s selectively quoted. Her full answers may well be more complex and nuanced, and the writer has cherry-picked sentences that he feels ‘work’ for the article. When she talks about the dark side, the article gives the impression she means child molestation, but she could also be talking about the issue of chemical dependency or the psychological toll of extreme fame.


I agree that she should clarify her stance. Not only are we not going to want to buy a ticket to a show about a child molester, no one else will either. Besides, if she’s that off the mark about who Michael was, her interpretation will be simply meaningless. When I consider his life, I see a guy who suffered as a child and grew up to vow to do everything he could to stop other children from suffering. That caused him to reach out to at-risk people, which actually put him in danger, but he persisted due to its deep emotional importance to him. If she could capture that, she might really have something. It’s not that she isn’t entitled to her own take on the situation, it’s more that his public image has been so much about other people’s projection for so many years. I crave some genuine insight for a change.

Exactly.
 
I disagree that fans should tell this woman anything at all, least of all how to think or what to write. It's between her and the Estate, with whom she has a contract. (I do think it was fair for fans to ask her if the DM quotes were accurate.)

It's disappointing if her interview with Bamigboye correctly conveyed her views about the LN film. We don't have that confirmation, and if it is confirmed, there is nothing we (as fans) can do about it. Her views are her views, and if she is not willing to listen to the Estate's case (which is fully in defence of Michael - we have seen their letter to HBO which begins 'Michael is innocent'), then clearly 'her' interpretation of MJ as a person will not be the same as the Estate's / MJ musical colleagues / fans /MJ friends and MJ family's interpretation of MJ as a person, and so it is unlikely her interpretation will get any financial support or will see the light of day.

It's unfortunate that her interview appeared in the press at the start of a 4-day holiday, and it is unlikely that the matter will be cleared up until the holiday break is over and the Estate can 'clear the air', one way or the other. I think think the Estate will need (and want) to do so as soon as they can.
No, I told her if she is going to talk about "Claims" then she better talk about the LIES these people did with the claims. That is something everyone should do if she want to talk about the issue; if not, she needs to leave it alone or she will get an ear ful and she just wasted her time and will leave a bad impression of herself. At the end of the day, it is the FANS who can make or break this play no matter who work on it or in agreement with it. if fans get upset wont go, guess what, IT WILL BE CANCELLED and all of them gets NOTHING.
 
Can anyone help? I'm looking for the official document where James said that after 1992 the only other time he was in Neverland was in 1995 or 1996. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thank you so much to anyone who can help.
 
RedMaryFlint;4255792 said:
The problem may be not that she’s misquoted, but that she’s selectively quoted. Her full answers may well be more complex and nuanced, and the writer has cherry-picked sentences that he feels ‘work’ for the article. When she talks about the dark side, the article gives the impression she means child molestation, but she could also be talking about the issue of chemical dependency or the psychological toll of extreme fame.


I agree that she should clarify her stance. Not only are we not going to want to buy a ticket to a show about a child molester, no one else will either. Besides, if she’s that off the mark about who Michael was, her interpretation will be simply meaningless. When I consider his life, I see a guy who suffered as a child and grew up to vow to do everything he could to stop other children from suffering. That caused him to reach out to at-risk people, which actually put him in danger, but he persisted due to its deep emotional importance to him. If she could capture that, she might really have something. It’s not that she isn’t entitled to her own take on the situation, it’s more that his public image has been so much about other people’s projection for so many years. I crave some genuine insight for a change.

If that turns out to be the case then the fans attacking her on Twitter are wrong this time, but Alicia could have responded differently, she could have shown some understanding for the fans and all the hard work we've all done ever since this filth aired.

Is this the first time that we hear about Lynn's views on MJ and the allegations? I see people on Twitter talking about it as if these are facts, that it's factual that Lynn actually said these things about Wade and James and the allegations in general. But you bring up a good point, what if they twisted her words to fit their own narrative? God knows how many times that has happened when it's about MJ.

Whatever the case may be in the end, Alicia says it won't shy away from controversy (which is OK I guess, long as they depict it truthfully) but it will be a celebration. Nobody in their right mind (except Dan Reed) would call it a celebration if it shows him as a predator.
 
RedMaryFlint;4255792 said:
The problem may be not that she’s misquoted, but that she’s selectively quoted. Her full answers may well be more complex and nuanced, and the writer has cherry-picked sentences that he feels ‘work’ for the article. When she talks about the dark side, the article gives the impression she means child molestation, but she could also be talking about the issue of chemical dependency or the psychological toll of extreme fame.
She's literally quoted as saying "I think they were telling the truth" regarding Wade and James, that "you can still have empathy for someone, for people who do bad things," and wondering aloud whether she can "ever listen to that album again?" regarding her favorite MJ album.

It seems pretty clear to me what she is talking about.

Staffordshire Bullterrier;4255825 said:
If that turns out to be the case then the fans attacking her on Twitter are wrong this time, but Alicia could have responded differently, she could have shown some understanding for the fans and all the hard work we've all done ever since this filth aired.

Alicia is wrong no matter what. She says the fans were attacking (it was actually just asking for clarification) Nottage based "on a line (not a quote) reported in the tabloid media." But as I mentioned above, the controversial statements were almost all direct quotes.

And of course I'm not even getting into her ridiculously condescending tone here towards the fanbase that have been doing their job for the past months.
 
Alicia excuse about Lynn, remember me the stupid excuse of Michael Jacobshagen about the Sun (as I remember) in January.
 
If that turns out to be the case then the fans attacking her on Twitter are wrong this time, but Alicia could have responded differently, she could have shown some understanding for the fans and all the hard work we've all done ever since this filth aired.

Is this the first time that we hear about Lynn's views on MJ and the allegations? I see people on Twitter talking about it as if these are facts, that it's factual that Lynn actually said these things about Wade and James and the allegations in general. But you bring up a good point, what if they twisted her words to fit their own narrative? God knows how many times that has happened when it's about MJ.

Whatever the case may be in the end, Alicia says it won't shy away from controversy (which is OK I guess, long as they depict it truthfully) but it will be a celebration. Nobody in their right mind (except Dan Reed) would call it a celebration if it shows him as a predator.
I agree.
 
Michael Jackson Biographers Face History, and the Mirror


By Reggie Ugwu
April 21, 2019
Two years ago, when Joe Vogel agreed to write a new edition of his influential book about Michael Jackson — to be released this summer for the 10th anniversary of the singer’s death — he thought it would be demanding but gratifying work, a fresh opportunity to train his arrow on the most formidable legacy in all of modern pop, to address new questions about the artist’s collaboration with the producer Quincy Jones and to celebrate the enduring resonance of Jackson’s abundant song catalog.

Cue record scratch.

In the month since HBO debuted the explosive documentary “Leaving Neverland,” in which two men and their families accuse Jackson of sexual abuse that they say went on for years while the men were children, Vogel has instead found himself in a biographer’s nightmare, scrambling to re-examine thousands of hours of research — and his unspoken biases and assumptions — as the cultural and informational landscape lurches beneath him.

“It complicates things in ways that are just really, really challenging,” Vogel said by phone recently. “Not only are you thinking about how do you deal with this on a personal level, you’re also thinking about how to handle it professionally.”

As music fans have tried to reconcile the Jackson of “Leaving Neverland” — a brazen pedophile who left children and their loved ones in ruin — with the spellbinding “Thriller” singer whose DNA winds through generations of art and culture, the biographers and journalists who wrote him into our collective memory have quietly been retracing their steps, some with pride, some with anguish, some hovering unsteadily in between.

The nine interviewed for this story cover the spectrum, balancing a personal affinity for Jackson with a professional interest in following facts where they lead. For some, “Leaving Neverland” was corroboration of their own investigative work. For others, it was a stinging reproach.

Joseph Vogel said he rewrote the preface to his book because the original one was “rendered incoherent by the documentary.”
Most said they were moved by the graphic and emotionally wrenching testimony of James Safechuck and Wade Robson, the Jackson accusers. Three authors are revising their books about the singer and will release new editions this year.

But in a sign of an emerging tug of war — and of growing fallout over the methods of filmmaker Dan Reed — two people who were interviewed said they refused to watch the documentary, prejudging it as craven vandalism. And only one said “Leaving Neverland” had changed his verdict on Jackson from “innocent” to “guilty.”

At the time of its premiere in March, Vogel had already been sent galleys of the second edition of his book, “Man in the Music: The Creative Life and Work of Michael Jackson.” He rewrote the preface, which he said was “rendered incoherent by the documentary,” but stopped short of declaring the case against the singer closed.

“I felt like I had just watched the prosecution’s case,” he said. “I was like, ‘O.K., now where’s the defense?’”

Smoking Gun or ‘Major Distortion’?
The rift among Jackson journalists over “Leaving Neverland” is the latest manifestation of a 25-year-old dispute about how best to interpret his life story.

On one side are those who regarded Jackson warily, seeing a powerful celebrity for whom paying a $25 million settlement over 1993 child molestation allegations was but one example of a willingness to use money and influence to camouflage grotesque behavior. On the other are those who saw him as a lifelong victim — a developmentally arrested and unjustly maligned black entertainer who was a magnet for tabloid opportunists, corrupt cops and scheming frauds.

Dimond is working on three new chapters for the audiobook version of her Jackson tome.
For those in the first camp, like Maureen Orth, a former special correspondent for Vanity Fair, “Leaving Neverland” is the smoking gun in the final act of a detective story filled with near misses and false alarms.

Orth wrote extensively about the accusations of 13-year-old Jordie Chandler, whose family sued Jackson and settled in 1994, and said she was struck by how similar his story was to those of Robson and Safechuck.

“The first thing I thought when I watched it was, ‘Yeah, I’ve heard all this before,’” she said of the documentary. “I felt very sorry and sad for those victims.”

Diane Dimond, who first exposed the Chandler allegations as a reporter for the tabloid television show “Hard Copy,” said Jackson’s fans have been sending her death threats ever since. She is at work on three new chapters for the audiobook version of her 2005 Jackson biography and wept while watching “Leaving Neverland.”

“I have a daughter, and I do lament that I spent so much time chasing leads on Michael Jackson,” said Dimond, who was a young mother at the time. “But I hope that people will now understand that these reports were not just done for sensationalism.”

But some journalists see the documentary as just the latest in a pattern of disreputable attempts to bring Jackson down — one being opportunistically marketed after his death when, by law, he can no longer be defamed.

Jefferson is working on a new introduction inspired by “Leaving Neverland.”

Few in this second camp have been more influential than Mary A. Fischer. Her GQ cover story about the Chandler allegations, “Was Michael Jackson Framed? The Untold Story,” which she later published as an e-book, is still frequently cited by fans who believe Jackson is the victim of a never-ending con.

In an interview, Fischer called “Leaving Neverland” a “major distortion,” and Robson and Safechuck “unreliable accusers.” She was especially critical of Reed’s failure to note potential conflicts of interest — standard practice in journalism — like the men’s previous lawsuit against the Jackson estate, and reports that Robson had earlier sought a book deal.

“That to me feels very manipulative, and I resent it,” Fischer said.

Vogel, who wrote an article in Forbes highlighting the lawsuit and prospective book deal before the film’s release, also accused Reed of cherry-picking.

“I think an equally compelling film could be made in Jackson’s defense by including certain people — and certain evidence — and excluding others,” Vogel said.

He noted alleged discrepancies in the timeline presented by Robson and Safechuck in the film, a growing point of contention for online skeptics. “There are still a lot of questions to be asked, if we believe in due process, and I think there are respectful ways to do that,” Vogel said.

Interviews that Reed gave explaining his decision not to interview sources who could defend Jackson — arguing that the film’s inclusion of Jackson’s own public statements was sufficient — so troubled some experts that they condemned the movie sight unseen.

Knopper initially expressed skepticism about child abuse claims, but said he found the documentary devastating.
”That, to me, is what I never did in journalism,” said Linda Deutsch, a now-retired reporter for The Associated Press whose coverage of several high-profile cases in her career included Jackson’s criminal trial in 2005, when he was accused of child molestation and found not guilty. She called Jackson, who personally phoned her after the trial to thank her for her coverage, a “victim of his own superstardom” and said that “Leaving Neverland” should never have been broadcast.

“They’re falsely accusing Michael, and I don’t want to hear it,” Deutsch said.

Susan Fast, director of the graduate program in gender studies and feminist research at McMaster University and the author of “Dangerous,” a book about Jackson and his album of the same name, has also refused to watch Reed’s documentary.

“I just don’t have any interest in watching four hours of unsubstantiated testimony,” Fast said. When it comes to Jackson, she argued, the media has always “reveled in the possibility of his destruction.”

‘The Same Old Binaries’
For some veterans of the Jackson beat, the more fruitful question isn’t whether the artist was a victim or a predator, but why it’s been so hard for some to accept the possibility that he was both.

“It’s more interesting to be trying to push on these things and not keep settling back into the same old binaries and defenses and self-righteousness,” said Margo Jefferson, the author of “On Michael Jackson” and a former Times critic who won the Pulitzer Prize for her book reviews. She is working on a new introduction to her book, inspired by “Leaving Neverland.”

“Can we get wiser about holding conflicting opinions, and feelings, and sets of information in our minds simultaneously?” she asked.

Steve Knopper, author of “MJ: The Genius of Michael Jackson,” said the film left him regretting some of his own blind spots. His book, which came out shortly after Robson and Safechuck jointly sued the Jackson estate in 2013, expressed skepticism of their claims and defended Jackson against the allegations from 1993 and 2005.

“I found it pretty devastating,” Knopper said of “Leaving Neverland.”

He now believes that Jackson was guilty. Or, that is, mostly believes it: “There is a small part of me that says, ‘I still want more evidence.’”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/21/arts/music/michael-jackson-books.amp.html
 
&#10084;&#65039;They’re falsely accusing Michael, and I don’t want to hear it,” Deutsch said&#10084;&#65039;&#128591;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;
 
Steve Knopper, author of &#8220;MJ: The Genius of Michael Jackson,&#8221; said the film left him regretting some of his own blind spots. His book, which came out shortly after Robson and Safechuck jointly sued the Jackson estate in 2013, expressed skepticism of their claims and defended Jackson against the allegations from 1993 and 2005.

&#8220;I found it pretty devastating,&#8221; Knopper said of &#8220;Leaving Neverland.&#8221;

He now believes that Jackson was guilty. Or, that is, mostly believes it: &#8220;There is a small part of me that says, &#8216;I still want more evidence.&#8217;&#8221;


This guy is crazy. You followed the 1993 and the 2005 YET he see a doc that is edit, two liars who clearly caught in lies even the mothers, and now u want to think otherwise based on guys who are lying in hopes to get millions that they LOST over the past year even the Judge called out their lies. What is with these people? More evidence? of what? Everything has been done in court and MJ was given no special treatment and now 2 liars out to trash MJ for money after defending him over 20 years you want more evidence? Give me a break. At this point, you even believe MJ or the liars. End of story.
 
terrell;4255841 said:
Steve Knopper, author of “MJ: The Genius of Michael Jackson,” said the film left him regretting some of his own blind spots. His book, which came out shortly after Robson and Safechuck jointly sued the Jackson estate in 2013, expressed skepticism of their claims and defended Jackson against the allegations from 1993 and 2005.

“I found it pretty devastating,” Knopper said of “Leaving Neverland.”

He now believes that Jackson was guilty. Or, that is, mostly believes it: “There is a small part of me that says, ‘I still want more evidence.’”


This guy is crazy. You followed the 1993 and the 2005 YET he see a doc that is edit, two liars who clearly caught in lies even the mothers, and now u want to think otherwise based on guys who are lying in hopes to get millions that they LOST over the past year even the Judge called out their lies. What is with these people? More evidence? of what? Everything has been done in court and MJ was given no special treatment and now 2 liars out to trash MJ for money after defending him over 20 years you want more evidence? Give me a break. At this point, you even believe MJ or the liars. End of story.

He got his additional evidence. Safeshmuck says he was molested in the train station. Train station did not exist! Just more proof of the lies.

I agree with you totally. At this point, you even believe MJ or the liars. End of story.
 
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