Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[somewhereinthedark]

Maybe it’s just me; but, I can’t see the Estate allowing someone to be on a MAJOR project who has publicly disparaged Michael. I hope I am correct in thst assertion.
I am also waiting for an official statement from the Estate, and not this Alicia person. If this Lynn person does not clarify her statement, then she definitely needs to be fired and replaced with someone else. Now that I read she is connected to that snake Orca Winfrey and HBO, I am becoming more skeptical of her.

 

[Soundmind]

Maybe it’s just me; but, I can’t see the Estate allowing someone to be on a MAJOR project who has publicly disparaged Michael. I hope I am correct in thst assertion.
I am also waiting for an official statement from the Estate, and not this Alicia person. If this Lynn person does not clarify her statement, then she definitely needs to be fired and replaced with someone else. Now that I read she is connected to that snake Orca Winfrey and HBO, I am becoming more skeptical of her.

The estate main litigator had told the world in 2005 he was not sure of MJ's innocence in 1993. That did not prevent Branca from hiring him.

 

[MJTruth]

If it's not possible to be 100% sure that pic was doctored, it is not possible to be 100% sure that pic was not doctored neither. I do think it was photoshopped (though I can't be 100% sure of that).

If ROBson, SafeCHECK, some of their family members and gREED had no qualms about fabricating stories about those kids "having sex" with MJ, MJ masturbating to their anuses, raping, grooming them, abusing them, etc., I would not put doctoring and editing photos and videos past them. Some audio recordings were even shortened to make it sound like Michael only wanted to see the kids.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">But this is photpshopped to show that he was always with MJ. I do Photoshop &amp; including my bro I asked from lot ppl who do Photoshop professionally in all platforms, they said this is poorly photoshopped haha &amp; they said a real pic always gives real scene to not feel suspicious. <a href="https://t.co/IDpmfSLsy3">pic.twitter.com/IDpmfSLsy3</a></p>&mdash; Mikey Applehead &#10084;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533; (@PumpiLiya) <a href="https://twitter.com/PumpiLiya/status/1119450101167087617?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
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I just don't see why anybody would fake the picture. It adds nothing to Leaving Neverland, so what would be the point?

I'd need to see a better quality image than the one on twitter to make my own mind up though
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[gerryevans]

That response from Alicia is strangely hostile and inappropriate. You'd have to say that the DM made up all those quotes Lynn said, which I doubt. And she meant something different when she said Michael was "deeply flawed"? No, I think I can read between the lines there. The Estate does want fans to support their projects don't they? Even setting Lynn's quotes aside, I think her connections to HBO and Harpo should be enough to get rid of her anyway. Yeah, why don't we hire Dan Reed for this Broadway show while we're at it :doh:

I'm willing to overlook Alicia and give Lynn the benefit of the doubt about comments tabloids are attributing to her, because we do know tabloids will blatantly lie and with quotes.

The thing is this is much too important a project for there to be ANY doubt about where Lynn stands. She should state emphatically her belief in MJ or move the heck on. More than ever, the people now who'll be largely buying tickets will be his fans. Those who may have been indifferent and supported MJ ventures in the past, might NOT buy a ticket to his show now. It will be largely us.

I for one will not buy a ticket if Lynn's purported feelings are true. I've spent literally hundreds of dollars supporting MJ projects, saw This Is It in the theaters 5 times,then bought copies of the DVD as giftw for friends, have bought all the albums, saw Cirque and encouraged all my buds to see it and on and on and on. No way am I going to be a party to lining Lynn's pocket if she genuinely believes the abhorrent acts being attributed to MJ. That says a lot about her if she believes he molested children and she actually even wants to celebrate his music and life.

Besides, if she's doing the research on him she should be doing, she wouldn't believe that junk.

I hope the estate makes the right statement here by their actions. If Lynn sees MJ as a monster and that's what a child molester is, she should not have anything to do with this project being backed by HIS estate.

 

[MJTruth]

Besides, if she's doing the research on him she should be doing, she wouldn't believe that junk.

I hope the estate makes the right statement here by their actions. If Lynn sees MJ as a monster and that's what a child molester is, she should not have anything to do with this project being backed by HIS estate.

It's a good point. I'd expect her to do some research.
I'd also expect to NOT want to support a project for an abuser if she really believes he is, so if she stays connected to the project that doesn't reflect well on her! SO if the quotes are incorrect then it's in her best interest to come forward.

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

I just don't see why anybody would fake the picture. It adds nothing to Leaving Neverland, so what would be the point?

I'd need to see a better quality image than the one on twitter to make my own mind up though

The point is that it is already clear that they have edided and faked many parts of the filmfootage what was used in LN and that they are showing pictures in LN in the wrong context.
- For example the picture with MJ and James are sitting in the plane is NOT from the Hawaii Trip where they should have recorded the mork interview, its from July 1988 on the bad tour
- The pictures where MJ should be sitting in James bedroom and in the safechucks living room are not made there (especially the one in the bed room can not be made before James joined MJ on the Bad tour cause the official Bad Tour poster from Rotterdam showes a date(s) in July 1988).
The filmfootage from James where he is sitting in his bedroom and dancing in the living room reveals that this two rooms looks compleatly different!
(- I could give more examples!)

Why should they then not go so far and edited or fake one (or more pictures)?
I know I have proven a post before that it is possible that they have met Michael on the day of the united negro event.
But I am not absolutly convinced that the photo is not photoshoped!

How should we trust an evial prooven thief and editorial king like Dan Greed in anything he presents us in LN?

To say that this picture is photospoped we need to find a picture where Michael looked exectly the same in his facial expression.
I was searching for this picture but I coundn't find any.
But maybe someone else can find it.

It is also possible that the original picture only included James mother and then they have photoshoped James into it!

 

[Soundmind]

I see on twitter that the Jackson are excluded from the Motown 60th anniversary. What a shame. Where is the ****ing estate.

 

[MJPoetryFan]

This is ridiculous about MJ and the Jackson's being omitted from the special. You can choose not to listen, you can pretend he didn't exist but he did and you can't erase his or his family's history. You don't see this push to remove Harvey's movies or Singer's movies from wherever you can watch those. It's like they want to wipe out MJ's existence as quickly as possible so people don't have the time to take all this in and come to their own conclusions about what is or isn't true.


As fo the estate stuff, it is aggravating I agree. I wonder, if they choose to keep her on, they're doing this because they want to show they aren't scared of MJ being betrayed as flawed (because he is, we all are) but I wonder if they feel the angelic image MJ's estate was going with or some fans were buying isn't as realistic anymore to go with and to just agree that he was flawed and to show that? Maybe they feel they can market MJ's image more broadly if they can concede he had flaws? I'm not saying it would be a good idea to stay with this woman to tell his story anymore but just going forward, maybe they feel not fighting the flawed angle is better for them and just more realistic? I'm not apposed to them embracing the sympathetic side MJ. Haters can twist it any which way they want but logical thinking fans/observers will probably feel more comfortable embracing MJ as a flawed person as apposed to this arch angel.

 

[Cinnamon234]

But I'm sure this Motown special has been in the works for some time before the documentary came out. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't at least acknowledge them during the broadcast since the J5 are a big part of "Motown's" history.

I mean if they refused to remove MJ/J5 memorabilia from the "Motown Museum" (I read an article about this after the documentary aired) why would they totally exclude them from this special?

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Does anyone know when the shoot from the Badalbum cover was taken place?

- I already know that the Bad Video filming was in Dezember 1986 where MJ is wearing the white undershirt and the short arm Jacket
- The Pepsi commercial videoshoot was also in Dezember 1986 where the caravan was on the set. Proven trough the picture with MJ and Karen Faye sitting in the carvan were MJ is wearing the dress of the second pesi commercial
- James is wearing a black Jacket himself in the end of the pepsi commerial
- In LN they are showing a veeeeeeeeeery intresting picture after the pepsi commercial what should be showing MJ and James behind the szenes of the commerial where MJ is waring clearly the ourfit from the pictures in the carvan with the white undershirt.
James is sitting there in a seat there and MJ is standing
- In the caravan James is wearing MJs short arm Jacket or the the black Jacket from the end of the pepsi commerial
- When James wears the red undershirt in the caravan on the set he maybe can wear it also in the photoshoot where MJ and James are hugging each other and dancing together when the picrures were parts of the Bad album cover photo shoot and it took place around the same time.

There are many other pictures in google to find which can be also part of the fotoshoot with James and MJ:

https://www.google.de/search?q=mich...&biw=431&prmd=ivsn&hl=de#imgrc=l_w3hc1CQjkuAM

https://www.google.de/search?q=mich...&biw=431&prmd=ivsn&hl=de#imgrc=8vx42dJPWEsBIM

 

[Soundmind]

But I'm sure this Motown special has been in the works for some time before the documentary came out. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't at least acknowledge them during the broadcast since the J5 are a big part of "Motown's" history.

I mean if they refused to remove MJ/J5 memorabilia from the "Motown Museum" (I read an article about this after the documentary aired) why would they totally exclude them from this special?

Apparently this was taped immediately after the Grammys this year almost two months ago when LV was still hyped. Not new. **** them anyway.

 

[myosotis]

Does anyone know when the shoot from the Badalbum cover was taken place?

As far as I remember, they had no suitable photos by the end of the video, so they asked MJ to stand on the stairs in the underground station and that became the Bad album cover.

There also seems to be an in-studio shoot for other Bad pics, where MJ was standing in front of a white sheet-type photographers background.

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

As far as I remember, they had no suitable photos by the end of the video, so they asked MJ to stand on the stairs in the underground station and that became the Bad album cover.

There also seems to be an in-studio shoot for other Bad pics, where MJ was standing in front of a white sheet-type photographers background.

Stefanie Safechuck said in LN that MJ and James shoot something together for a trailer on the set in a room where she had a talk with Karen Faye!
You can read it in the transcript.
Sounds like a photoshoot... or not?

 

[MJPoetryFan]

 

[MJPoetryFan]

 

[WildStyle]

Pepsi Shoot

All of these have been listed on MJPhotoCollectors as being from Speed Demon for years. For one you can see that Michael's hair was different by the time he started shooting Speed Demon. He no longer had the big part in the right side of his hair and he began having another front curl on that side. You can also see that Safechuck appears older as it's probably a year and a half later.

 

[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No artist could match the effect of Michael Jackson. No artist alive has come close to matching the effect of Michael. He was beyond music and entertainment, he was a global force of nature. I can&#8217;t mention his name in this tweet with any entertainer. That would be sacrilegious! <a href="https://t.co/mLzJLjzzVf">pic.twitter.com/mLzJLjzzVf</a></p>&mdash; JJ. Omojuwa (@Omojuwa) <a href="https://twitter.com/Omojuwa/status/1119549789266489344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">20. April 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MJFam?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MJFam</a> and fans of the Jacksons, According to various media reports, the <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacksons?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Jacksons</a> will not be at Motown 60 this Sunday on <a href="https://twitter.com/CBS?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CBS</a>. This is not Berry Gordy&#8217;s fault as he no longer owns Motown, that would be <a href="https://twitter.com/UMG?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@UMG</a>. Let us focus our energy on streaming the Jacksons&#8217; music starting now. <a href="https://t.co/1IiRtNCBz1">pic.twitter.com/1IiRtNCBz1</a></p>&mdash; Dr. Andrew Greene (@AndrewGreene864) <a href="https://twitter.com/AndrewGreene864/status/1119521760884531200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">20. April 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This statement is absolute garbage. It says the comment wasn&#8217;t reported as a quote, when it absolutely was, and it also fails to actually say whether or not Nottage really said it, which strongly implies that she did. And if she did, she has to go &amp; must be sacked.</p>&mdash; Charles Thomson (@CEThomson) <a href="https://twitter.com/CEThomson/status/1119407762386169856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">20. April 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Every year a UGA gymnast does the moonwalk on the beam. It&#8217;s a tradition that&#8217;s been going on for years. I had the pleasure of seeing it in person yesterday. &#55357;&#56833; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/michaeljackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"># michaeljackson</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/moonwalk?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#moonwa lk</a> <a href="https://t.co/adC0reXaB6">pic.twitter.com/adC0reXaB6</a></p>&mdash; Jenny Winings (@JennyW526) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyW526/status/1119618053581545473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">20. April 2019</a></blockquote>
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[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Pepsi Shoot

All of these have been listed on MJPhotoCollectors as being from Speed Demon for years. For one you can see that Michael's hair was different by the time he started shooting Speed Demon. He no longer had the big part in the right side of his hair and he began having another front curl on that side. You can also see that Safechuck appears older as it's probably a year and a half later.

Hm.... I think MJ is waring the same hairstyle on the picture from the pepsi commerial like he is waring in Bad album cover photos and Bad video.
Do you think karen faye was not able to style MJs hair differently?

You should look at the picture I was talking about in LN which shows MJ together with James behind the szenes of the pesi commerial where James is sitting in a seat and MJ is standing.


It comes in this video after 12:00

A foto collector is a human beeing and can make mistakes.
I whould have made the same mistake too when I whould be not aware that the caravan was on the pesi commercial set.

But I am not saying that it is not possible that James has not visted the moonwalker set.
But why should he do that without donig anything there?

 

[WildStyle]

Hm.... I think MJ is waring the same hairstyle on the picture from the pepsi commerial like he is waring in Bad album cover photos and Bad video.
Do you think karen faye was not able to style MJs hair differently?

You should look at the picture I was talking about in LN which shows MJ together with James behind the szenes of the pesi commerial where James is sitting in a seat and MJ is standing.


It comes in this video after 12:00

A foto collector is a human beeing and can make mistakes.
I whould have made the same mistake too when I whould be not aware that the caravan was on the pesi commercial set.

But I am not saying that it is not possible that James has not visted the moonwalker set.
But why should he do that wihout donig anything there?

The photo of James sitting and Michael standing is also clearly from the set of Speed Demon. I've followed Michael Jackson for over 30 years. I know his outfits and what he looked like during different era's. That is the set of Speed Demon.

 

[MJPoetryFan]

This is hilarious :hysterical:

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

The photo of James sitting and Michael standing is also clearly from the set of Speed Demon. I've followed Michael Jackson for over 30 years. I know his outfits and what he looked like during different era's. That is the set of Speed Demon.

But then we have caught them in anouther lie when they are saying it is from the pesi commerial!
For me it seames that James is wearing the same blue shirt like he is wearing in the pesi commerial and in the picture with his mother what they show before.
Thats was the main reason why I wanted people to look at the picture.

Maybe someome could upload the picture here.

 

[WildStyle]

But then we have cought them in anouther lie when they are saying it is from the pesi commerial!
For me it semes that James is wearing the same blue shirt like he is waring in the pesi commerial and in the picture with his mother what they show before.
Thats was the main reason why I wanted people to look at the picture.

Maybe someome could upload the picture here.

Well they don't specifically say that photo is from the set of the Pepsi commercial, so it's not really a lie.

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Does this this white door with MJs star on it not also appear in moonwalker somewhere?

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Well they don't specifically say that photo is from the set of the Pepsi commercial, so it's not really a lie.

They say nowhere at any time where in LN where the pictures they are showing are from.
But when they showing this picture they are clearly talking about the pepsi commercial, not from moonwalker Speedemon or anything else.
They never mention Moonwalker in LN, or a video part of it except from the moment where Wade is claiming that MJ was cutting szenes from Moonwalker in November 1987 when the film was not near to be finished.

 

[WildStyle]

They say nowhere at any time where in LN where the pictures they are showing are from.
But when they showing this picture they are clearly talking about the pepsi commerial, not from moonwalker speedemon or anything else.
They never metion Moonwalker in LN, or a video part of it exept from the moment where Wade is claiming that MJ was cutting szenes from Moonwalker in November 1987 when the film was not near to be finished.

That makes no difference. It's a movie. It's not a scientific thesis. They can put anything anywhere they want to try to visually show a story.

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

That makes no difference. It's a movie. It's not a scientific thesis. They can put anything anywhere they want to try to visually show a story.

But they say LN is a documentery with a factual backround, not a movie.
In a documentery you can not show everything out of context.

I think only Karen Faye, can shine light on how all this footage belongs together....

Somewhere should ask her from where the photos in the caravan and the pictures of the fotoshoot are from, she was on both sets and prepared Michael and maybe James for everthing.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

You should use twitter theres lots of info on there and you can ask KF etc

 

[WildStyle]

But they say LN is a documentery with a factual backround, not a movie.
In a documentery you can not show everything out of context.

I think only Karen Faye, can shine light on how all this footage belongs together....

Somewhere should ask her from where the photos in the carvan and the pictures of the fotoshoot are from, she was on both sets and prepared Michael and maybe James for everthing.

What about Leaving Neverland is factual?

Look... Michael's hair, outfit, trailer and the lot that the last picture is taken on all confirm that it is the set of Speed Demon. It's not hard to figure out.

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

You see no possible connection between the Bad video and the pepsi commercial which is filmed in the same month?

Did they not filmed Badder in the same station undergroundstation where they filmed Bad?

What about Leaving Neverland is factual?

I thought it could be the first half hour.^^

 

[Soundmind]

Y'all the love MJ is getting on Twitter right now because of the Beyonce comparison is so assuring. Very supportive Tweets from people that were never active in the LV fiasco. MJ is way big for pervert Hollywood to cancel him.