Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[L.T.D]

Actually, I think this could be excellent news for MJ! Jacobshagen's claims should be very easy to refute, because of his history creating fake letters and false stories about MJ. The fact that the Mirror and Sun have jumped on this so quickly with no research should help to show that Robson and Safechuck are 'birds of a feather' they are all just fraudsters, who can easily fool the press. It will certainly show that the press are extremely easy to fool where MJ is concerned.

The problem with that is a lot of people will just read the article and walk away with the opinion that it’s true without reading the rebuttal. The only way it could be good is if an article showing how much of a liar he is is published and gets more attention than the initial report itself, which just won’t happen because it’s good news...

 

[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Small protest, heightened police presence at Sundance premiere of Michael Jackson <a href="https://t.co/ock6ArkqIt">pic.twitter.com/ock6ArkqIt</a></p>&mdash; Michael Jackson CLUB (@mjjsource_) <a href="https://twitter.com/mjjsource_/status/1089150991788920833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">26. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Paris78]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

the biggest german tabloid BILD closes their report with the following sentence:

"In fact, both Robson and Safechuck 2005 had testified in the abuse trial against Jackson FOR the "King of Pop" and withdrew their statements only after his death and demanded compensation of 1.5 billion euros. Both failed in court."

Enough said !

 

[L.T.D]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

the biggest german tabloid BILD closes their report with the following sentence:

"In fact, both Robson and Safechuck 2005 had testified in the abuse trial against Jackson FOR the "King of Pop" and withdrew their statements only after his death and demanded compensation of 1.5 billion euros. Both failed in court."

Enough said !

Should be in the first few paragraphs of the article, I have this feeling people would of stopped reading most of these articles before they add these things in.

 

[dam2040]

Apparently doc has footage of This is it, Thriller and some bad tour footage.

Surely they can’t use this?

 

[Dudex]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

i'm pretty sure they can't, but as i understand Estate can sue only after it broadcasted on TV, as happened with Disney. maybe i'm wrong

 

[dmehta]

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The Estate of Michael Jackson

....The Estate has heard from many of you inquiring about what further actions the Estate will take. The Estate is continuing to explore its options in exposing the obvious bias and agenda of the filmmaker in telling the story of these two admitted liars.
Thank you all for your continued support for Michael&#8217;s legacy, and for everything you are doing online to educate people on the truth about Michael Jackson. We&#8217;re all in this together for Michael.

Good, they&#8217;ll have to start doing something soon because journalists are not going to investigate the background of Wade or Jimmy. The Estate have to start putting these facts out there for it to be reported and to try and change the narrative. All we&#8217;re getting at the moment is everyone believing them and calling MJ a monster.

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[Lovepeace1]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

the michael jacobshagen was seeing michael sometimes between 1995 and 1998, in his day I saw videos and photos of them together. I think they stopped having contact in 99.
On the other hand I was wondering these days if anyone knows anything about the Schleiter, it is the family where Michael was staying when he goes to Germany. Do you remember them?
the child Anton Schleiter and his sister Franziska, spent a lot of time with Michael some years,
they were never public or sought fame, they were like the cascio but in Germany (obviously the cascio had more relationship with michael but I mean it was similar). Since michael died no more was heard of them, anton schleiter continues to defend michael? Has it been pronounced at some time?

 

[myosotis]

Apparently doc has footage of This is it, Thriller and some bad tour footage.

Surely they can&#8217;t use this?

They will probably try and claim 'fair use':

Fair use is the use of limited amounts of copyrighted material in such a way as to not be an infringement. It is codified at 17 U.S.C. § 107. Each determination of fair use is made on an individualized case-by-case basis. Considerations are:

Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: Nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are more likely to be fair use. This does not mean that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair use or that all commercial uses are not fair. Instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below. Additionally, &#8220;transformative&#8221; uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work.

Nature of the copyrighted work: Using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support fair use than using a factual work (such as a technical article or news item). In addition, use of an unpublished work is less likely to be considered fair.

Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. Using a large portion of the copyrighted work is less likely to be fair use. However, courts have occasionally found use of an entire work to be fair use, and in other contexts, using even a small amount of a copyrighted work was determined not to be fair use because the selection was an important part&#8212;or the &#8220;heart&#8221;&#8212;of the work.

Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright owner&#8217;s original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread.

 

[dmehta]

Can anyone confirm where the mock wedding ceremony story that Safechuck talks about came from? I&#8217;ve heard it before but can&#8217;t remember it&#8217;s origins. This story seems to have been picked up by some of the reviews. Was it Gutierrez&#8217;s book?

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Wai-wai-wait, Aaron Carter? The one who claimed MJ gave him drugs? Maybe i've missed somethin'?

That's the exact same reaction I had. Didn't this guy go against Mike a few years ago? I could swear we posted about it here. Not sure if he ever claimed anything else.

Good to see the continuing support on Twitter. I honestly find it impressive that a tabloid would report on a fact. We can't expect from them to put the fact first though, at the end of the day they still want to sell that crap. I wish it wasn't like that though.

I wonder if the estate is gonna do something after this trash has been on TV. They really should sue these pieces of crap.

 

[Lovepeace1]

Can anyone confirm where the mock wedding ceremony story that Safechuck talks about came from? I’ve heard it before but can’t remember it’s origins. This story seems to have been picked up by some of the reviews. Was it Gutierrez’s book?

James Safechuck declared it in his lawsuit about abuse. He told it himself and it's the same thing he told in the documentary.

 

[terrell]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

That's the exact same reaction I had. Didn't this guy go against Mike a few years ago? I could swear we posted about it here. Not sure if he ever claimed anything else.

Good to see the continuing support on Twitter. I honestly find it impressive that a tabloid would report on a fact. We can't expect from them to put the fact first though, at the end of the day they still want to sell that crap. I wish it wasn't like that though.

I wonder if the estate is gonna do something after this trash has been on TV. They really should sue these pieces of crap.

These tabloids have an obsession with MJ and it is like they get excited to say and talk about anything on him. Anyway, all day and all night, I heard nothing on tv even Cnn, MSNBC, are NOT discussing it not even on their website. Foxnews posted the family letter.Lets hope we just have to deal with this one or two more days or not at all.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Instead of having a doc about the real pedos, the pedos have made a doc about Michael making him a pedo, what a coincidence....

 

[La74]

I asked in thread about Corey Feldman as well but does anyone know what Gary Dunlop is doing now? If Sneddon had a history of malisious prosecution that is something people should know for the context and to convice them what a witchhunt the Michael Jackson case really was and that it really wasn&#8217;t a serious investigation.

 

[myosotis]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

A fan has looked on the Wayback machine and found this on Jacobshagen's web page from 1205 2013 (Just after the Robson allegations:
(It's a picture of the page, saying that 'there was never anything sexual', but this link should take you there).

https://twitter.com/sanemjfan/status/1089404273350402050

 

[edmaz]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Instead of having a doc about the real pedos, the pedos have made a doc about Michael making him a pedo, what a coincidence....

That's true. Dan Reed wants to be seen as pedo hunter? Why he didn't make a doc 'bout this guy was molested? Oh, sorry, i forgot, he defended MJ. It seems like he's afraid to uncover the facts 'bout real pedos.

 

[Spike J]

Good, they’ll have to start doing something soon because journalists are not going to investigate the background of Wade or Jimmy. The Estate have to start putting these facts out there for it to be reported and to try and change the narrative. All we’re getting at the moment is everyone believing them and calling MJ a monster.

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THIS!!! SO MUCH THIS!!!!
The estate has the power to buy thinkpieces about this whole debacle to tip the scale on this. Go for Esquire, Gq, whatever. Make something now..

Although something tellls me Branca will use this as to prove to the IRS that the MJ brand is devalued and get rid of their taxes

 

[somewhereinthedark]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Snoop Dogg's instagram post from yesterday. Strong statement, thank you <a href="https://twitter.com/SnoopDogg?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SnoopDogg</a> <a href="https://t.co/ecPkuvdS8J">pic.twitter.com/ecPkuvdS8J</a></p>— Petschi (@OneLove4Michael) <a href="https://twitter.com/OneLove4Michael/status/1089236765179813888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">26. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/QPqaUFbGtv">pic.twitter.com/QPqaUFbGtv</a></p>— andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1089232736055771136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">26. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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The estate needs to ask Spike Lee to make a rebuttal film to this trash docu. Spike will have a better chance to get attention and distribution than Taj. I love Taj, but the media will not give him a chance.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

A fan has looked on the Wayback machine and found this on Jacobshagen's web page from 1205 2013 (Just after the Robson allegations:
(It's a picture of the page, saying that 'there was never anything sexual', but this link should take you there).

https://twitter.com/sanemjfan/status/1089404273350402050

We all should save the screenshots from archives or the former news (like 2004 Orths Vanity Fair article vs. Mary Fishers 1993 GQ article) or the important pics or links or just download all the availabole videos (robson, chandler, phones calls, tv specials and so on) on youtube, dailymotion and co. - because they will be sonner or later reported and deleted, and collect all the info about the timeline, then post all of this to the Estate and the Jacksons, only they are able to do something legally.

 

[PoP]

Wai-wai-wait, Aaron Carter? The one who claimed MJ gave him drugs? Maybe i've missed somethin'? <iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.a600a62a1c92aa33bb89e73fa1e8b3b3.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mjjcommunity.com&settingsEndpoint=https%3A%2F%2Fsyndication.twitter.com%2Fsettings" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

Yes, we thought he said all that and make him our enemy that at the time, but turned out it was purely a fabrication by the tabloids, therefore he&#8217;s on our side.

 

[mthalen]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

The thing is, people can change their mind.
Nothing the mj estate can do about it.
Yes, they all swore under oath that nothing ever happened, but the state is not going to go after them for perjury.
Not with #metoo, it's too delicate

Only thing the estate can do is sit back, relax and hope it doesn't blow up as much that musicals and Cirque shows will be pulled.

 

[Spike J]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

The thing is, people can change their mind.
Nothing the mj estate can do about it.
Yes, they all swore under oath that nothing ever happened, but the state is not going to go after them for perjury.
Not with #metoo, it's too delicate

Only thing the estate can do is sit back, relax and hope it doesn't blow up as much that musicals and Cirque shows will be pulled.

It's HBO so definetly going to get bigger stories and coverage. They need to do the minimum as to lay the foundation to undermine their claims in the media right now. There needs to be a counterpoint just like when Ronan Farrow went after Woody Allen. There were voices undermining his claims bringing light to facts from that particular case.

 

[Danja]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

The thing is, I think we should leave the haters to discuss among themselves on twitter. When they see they are not getting any response, they will get tired/bored eventually.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

That's true. Dan Reed wants to be seen as pedo hunter? Why he didn't make a doc 'bout this guy was molested? Oh, sorry, i forgot, he defended MJ. It seems like he's afraid to uncover the facts 'bout real pedos.

Considering his comments to the L.A times hunter sounds like those who are members of nambla! Theres always a reason why these ppl are obsessed with abuse.look at the world of wonder production company who did other hatchet jobs on mj

 

[dmehta]

The thing is, people can change their mind.
Nothing the mj estate can do about it.
Yes, they all swore under oath that nothing ever happened, but the state is not going to go after them for perjury.
Not with #metoo, it's too delicate

Only thing the estate can do is sit back, relax and hope it doesn't blow up as much that musicals and Cirque shows will be pulled.

Hmm not sure I agree. Yes, they need to tread carefully but they need to counter this with facts. Expose the lies and the motives of Wade. The failed lawsuits and the previous denials.

Thats the only way to change the narrative and ensure the likes of Cirque and musicals don&#8217;t get pulled.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

A fan has looked on the Wayback machine and found this on Jacobshagen's web page from 1205 2013 (Just after the Robson allegations:
(It's a picture of the page, saying that 'there was never anything sexual', but this link should take you there).

https://twitter.com/sanemjfan/status/1089404273350402050

That is a DAMN good! Sometimes you have to wonder if these a-holes lack a brain or something. Did that dude not think this would be found again? He should have known better. This is why MJ fans/supporters ROCK!

Instead of having a doc about the real pedos, the pedos have made a doc about Michael making him a pedo, what a coincidence....

<iframe width="786" height="442" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tq69-SUQwJI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The pedos have made a doc? You mean the director?

Yes, we thought he said all that and make him our enemy that at the time, but turned out it was purely a fabrication by the tabloids, therefore he&#8217;s on our side.

What the ****, seriously? The tabloids completely made that up? I honestly wasn't aware of that and had been hating on Aaron ever since.

 

[KOPV]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Sorry if this has been posted but geraldine hughes, author of Redemption reaction. To the film.. she was there: https://youtu.be/jm83TpSBnEg

She rambles a bit but it's still interesting to hear a knowledgable supporter speak of the film that watched it.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Hmm not sure I agree. Yes, they need to tread carefully but they need to counter this with facts. Expose the lies and the motives of Wade. The failed lawsuits and the previous denials.

Thats the only way to change the narrative and ensure the likes of Cirque and musicals don&#8217;t get pulled.

I agree. The estate can NOT just sit back and hope this goes away. Their statement to the media received a lot of coverage. We, the fans, must continue with our rebuttals and the Estate will do what they are going to do. We have to keep up the fight, because the haters/liars think that if they spew out enough filth, we will just throw up our hands and give up. MJ fans are too strong and resilient to do that.

 

[terrell]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

The estate needs to ask Spike Lee to make a rebuttal film to this trash docu. Spike will have a better chance to get attention and distribution than Taj. I love Taj, but the media will not give him a chance.

I was thinking this as well. Spike would be perfect.