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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Glanni said:
this is the full interview on british tv where the host reads the full estate statement to them.
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That James is swallowing hard like he is nervous and looking around as if he is busted. They are lying through their teeth.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Now you've lost me. He's doing great work, so what do you want him to stop with? :)
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specifically sending Dan detailed facts proving Wade and James are lying.. I shared my gratitude for making the information public but the act of sending that information to Dan is a bit irresponsible. Dan hunts the interent to find what fans know specifically for 'damage control'. Us willifully handing him that info only gives him more time to build the tools to excuse his way out of things..

Wade may be a 'master of deception' but Dan is a 'master of manipulation'..

Imagine for a second if he was not privy to the info about the train station and a reporter asks him about it.. He would have been caught off gaurd without the time to think through a rational responce. NOW, he is prepared for that question!! as weak as his argument may be, he is prepared..
 
The way James awkwardly says Michael liked to have his nipples rubbed ?
 
KOPV said:
yeah I could not help myself but to try to get him to stop..
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He's managed to get a bunch of articles out in the tabloids which have been exposing the lies. He's doing a great job.
 
Anna said:
He's managed to get a bunch of articles out in the tabloids which have been exposing the lies. He's doing a great job.
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I am not arguing with that Ann, I am speaking specifically to sending DAN the info.. that is not a smart thing to do.
 
Ah I see what you mean. Maybe Mike is hoping Reed will cave in? No idea, but I agree. He shouldn't send it to him. It's easy enough for Reed to get a ahold of it but this is just handing him the info.

Do we now when we're gonna start hearing about happenings with the lawsuit against HBO? Wasn't it June or something? I definitely think that if Michael had been alive he would have taken this court already, but who knows, maybe the estate is waiting for even more dirt to come out. It certainly isn't over when it comes to that.
 
KOPV said:
I am not arguing with that Ann, I am speaking specifically to sending DAN the info.. that is not a smart thing to do.
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Sending it to him doesn't make a difference. The things we've been digging up are being spread everywhere, including the tabloids now. He'd see it anyway.
 
KOPV said:
I am not arguing with that Ann, I am speaking specifically to sending DAN the info.. that is not a smart thing to do.
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Dan will find it out anyway like from the tabloids. It's not secret info. He could be reading this forum for all we know.
 
^ find it or not, if he has an interview set.. lets say tomorrow and we discover something today..

If there is ANY chance he is not privy of info and asked about it, it needs to be caught on film in interviews... I get that the info is there and he'll see it eventually. But why the hell help him? What purpose does sending him the defense do, aside from giving him more time to prepare an argument back?
 
KOPV said:
I thought I'd share this:

IDK if this interests anyone, but this is what Wade Robson claims he was listening to on his way to his therapist that helped him open up about the 'abuse'..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvmsMzlF7o

The narrative is dealing with dealing with the issue of 'perfection' when parents instill it in you.. Speak much more to the dynamic of his relationship with his (stage mom, talent agent) mother.. And connects much closer to the type of issues he spoke about in his breakdowns about not living up to expectations etc.
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Thank you for the summary, I think it's very interesting.

In the video "Leaving Neverland - Robson & Safechuck vs real abuse victims" the creator shows a part of LN where he actually found genuine emotions: it's when Robson's siblings are talking about the time when part of the family left for the US leaving their father behind and how they felt is was the end of the family.

What's interesting is that the part the analyst highlighted as real also connects to family issues and problems caused by their "stage mom" (here not the high expectations but the breaking up of the family). There must be much remorse in that family but it's often hard to identify the real "culprit" if that person is a close family member (they should accuse their own mother), so they might be projecting their problems and hard feelings onto MJ (who is connected to their various senses of failure but not the cause of it).

The video is hard to watch because of the real victims but it's very informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFdnhmRpdFE

BTW the French psychologist also thought about projecting their problems onto the wrong person (beside strongly criticising the mothers).
 
To be fair, everyone has been messaging him today anyway because he has specifically mentioned the train thing himself and everyone has torn him apart.

Mike messaged him and Dan Reed for the first time I can recall, actually replied to one one of the things we discovered and dug himself a deeper hole. So I'm glad he did message him, Dan made himself look worse.
 
KOPV said:
^ find it or not, if he has an interview set.. lets say tomorrow and we discover something today..

If there is ANY chance he is not privy of info and asked about it, it needs to be caught on film in interviews... I get that the info is there and he'll see it eventually. But why the hell help him? What purpose does sending him the defense do, aside from giving him more time to prepare an argument back?
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Well... I think having blue check marks calling him out on Twitter is a good thing. They have reach and influence, which means more pressure. And Reed's responses just make him look ridiculous, so I'd say we're still coming out ahead.
 
AG5050;4252737 said:
What’s the thing about the Grammy?
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It is explained in the last part of this video:

[video=youtube;9nfwgbSQjYE]
https://youtu.be/9nfwgbSQjYE[/video]

Staffordshire Bullterrier;4252747 said:
Some people on Twitter now saying that he just needs to come out, apologize and we will forgive him.

There can maybe a forgiveness for Jordan Chandler when he would come out now to vindcate MJ but never for Wade and James in many years.

Lmao, I'm sorry but people seem to forget that this is about money for all three involved. He ain't gonna apologize for shit.
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Dan Read is responsible for the script of this movie. I think the trainstation part was his idea.

KOPV;4252771 said:
Elusive, I hope this doesn't come off as rude but I think your personal loving nature makes you naive with Dan.. Dan is the driving force behind this documentary, he was not lied to by Wade and James.. THEY are lying to us.. He is the one that carefully edited that documentary, talked them through the process, cleverly used out of context situations to make Michael Jackson look like a pedophile.. If it was not for DAN, this would not be happening.

If anything, he is their leader.. (not in the accusation) but as to how they present the accusations. Dan is a liar, fake, manipulative narcissist. While Wade and James are the equipment this 'ship' is made out of, DAN is the 'contractor' that approved the building of the ship as Wade and James built it (along with their legal teams). Gave Dan the 'helm' as the CAPTAIN of the ship to drive the ship right through Michael Jackson into the hearts of millions of Michael Jackson supporters.. We bleed because of him!


Without him, (up until the moment he grabbed that 'gun') we had very little concern about these allegations.. mind you, they've been around for 7 years now.. THEY were failing, and he was seen as their savior.
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KOPV;4252794 said:
^ find it or not, if he has an interview set.. lets say tomorrow and we discover something today..

If there is ANY chance he is not privy of info and asked about it, it needs to be caught on film in interviews... I get that the info is there and he'll see it eventually. But why the hell help him? What purpose does sending him the defense do, aside from giving him more time to prepare an argument back?
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I fully agree with this.
 
since the whole circus was "about victims of sexual abuse" and "not about michael", where are wade and james now? where is the money going exactly which wade is begging for with his "fund"?

where is his voice now speaking up for sexual abuse survivors?

why do they disappear now? why not fighting for all the victims? why not going to interviews seperately?
 
Is that true that Mike Smallcombe got the deposition of wade mother from the Estate ?
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Ah I see what you mean. Maybe Mike is hoping Reed will cave in? No idea, but I agree. He shouldn't send it to him. It's easy enough for Reed to get a ahold of it but this is just handing him the info.

Do we now when we're gonna start hearing about happenings with the lawsuit against HBO? Wasn't it June or something? I definitely think that if Michael had been alive he would have taken this court already, but who knows, maybe the estate is waiting for even more dirt to come out. It certainly isn't over when it comes to that.
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They are supposed to be having a hearing about court dates on 23rd May, I think.
All these things take time, and due process. No-one would be able to do this any quicker. Courts do what they do, at the speed that they do it.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
Ppl should tweet dan to push him to go after those two. Act the victim like hes been duped. Feel sorry for him. He should do that or get dragged down with them. He needs to cover himself. Put the thought in his head
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I agree with this. Not only have they told different stories than their original and ever changing court claims, but these new stories have been shot full of holes.
Dan was probably dreaming of a new BAFTA after winning for 'The Pedophile Hunter'-

Well, no BAFTA for him. He needs to save face and sue Wade and James for fraud.
 
Yeah, can someone clearly tell us where the grammy story came from? Is this in court or in the doc?.. I don't recall hearing it in the documentary, I think I would have caught that.. (I think) but it could def. be from court..

Can someone clarify this??
 
elusive moonwalker said:
No not rude at all kop. I think you have taken what ive said the wrong way. Not your fault. One of the probs with the net. I agree i dont believe for one min hes not in on this but IF the ship starts to sink hes such a scumbag that he will do anything to cover his own ass and pass the blame onto others. As to say " it wasnt me i got used" because admitting you were in on it is far worse for your career than acting the victim and blaming those two
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actually that is a smart move. When he will be pushed against the wall he can play the victim too.
 
Actually you know what I want right now? To hear them arguing who came up with what, who is to blame and how their lies could be exposed. I want to hear them panic :kickass:
 
just to let you guys know, we can CONFIRM that story about the visit to Neverland 14 times, 4 of those times Michael was there.. Joy did say this 100%!! while typing up the doc I am doing, I reviewed some docs and saw it right in her testimony. She does discuss other times with Michael, but specifically at Neverland.. 4 times!
 
He said he was abused before the Grammy 1989 in New York. There was not Grammy in New York that year and MJ attended no Grammy that year.
 
The Grand Canyon thing is interesting. In Wade's emails to his mother there is this... "How did it happen that I ended up staying with Michael and you guys went to the grand canyon?" "You guys came back to the ranch? And then the family left the ranch together?"

Does anybody know of any of the Robson's perhaps posting any photos from the grand canyon trip anywhere on the internet before Wade made his claims? Would there be a way to get a visitors log from the grand canyon (if such a thing even exists)? This was almost 30 years ago so that may be along shot, but perhaps worth a try.
 
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No not rude at all kop. I think you have taken what ive said the wrong way. Not your fault. One of the probs with the net. I agree i dont believe for one min hes not in on this but IF the ship starts to sink hes such a scumbag that he will do anything to cover his own ass and pass the blame onto others. As to say " it wasnt me i got used" because admitting you were in on it is far worse for your career than acting the victim and blaming those two


That wont fly because he did not seek out the Jacksons or anyone on Jackson side to speak to tell the other side.
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Even in his 2005 testimony he says he was with MJ when his family left but his mom's recollection of the events was totally different at the time. Even in 2005 she testified her whole family went on that trip. He hardly remembers anything from those days and had to rely on his mom's memory to prepare for his case. He seems to have exaggerated the time he had with MJ to brag about how close he was to him. Obviously he was very jealous of other kids and wanted to seem 'special' like them. I highly doubt Joy left her 7 years old son alone with MJ. Even when he slept in his bedroom the sister was there initially. Anyway, they have never produced that email in full both he and his mother claimed there was something wrong with their pc's which is very convenient. Joy did confirm again in 2016 that her whole family went on that trip. So she has always been consistent in that claim.
 
Soundmind said:
He said he was abused before the Grammy 1989 in New York. There was not Grammy in New York that year and MJ attended no Grammy that year.
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Yeah, I was wondering where this came from.. I don't remember it fromt he documentary but am aware of the info..
 
Hey guys - I've been away for awhile...needed a break from it all, honestly.

What's the pulse? What are we feeling as far as the truth coming out? If anyone can fill me in on the morale in the MJ fanbase, that'd be awesome! Thanks!
 
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