Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

If there was easy accessible truth supporting documentaries it would make mj fan life much easier..

Get a show broadcasted, a&e get on that docuseries, netflix feel free to pull a page out of the 'making a murder' page.. something!

There needs to be an in depth yet easy to comprehend rebuttle show/special..

People dont read anymore so thats the only way of doing it lol
 
L.T.D;4237336 said:
Think some of you are getting extremely carried away right now and creating all sorts of different scenarios in your heads that haven’t even happened yet.

If Michaels legacy survived not only being accused of it once, but a second time as well, then a silly little TV documentary is going to have no effect at all. Especially since it’s already received a lot of backlash before it’s even been shown!

Put things into perspective, imagine being in 2003 and hearing your idol has been arrested under fresh charges of child molestation......now put yourself back in 2019 where youre hearing about a tv documentary with two easily disproven liars. It won’t even come close to being worse than 1993 or 2003.

I'm afraid because it's four hours long. What film is four hours long, let alone documentary?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

We the fans have read court statements from Safechuck and therefore know what awful things he said. We also know what source he used for his lies. The general public isn't aware of any of that stuff and I'm afraid the documentary is going to change that. Haters will always hate him, of course, but those who are indifferent might start thinking that he's actually a monster. I hope I'm overreacting, but we will see.
Disclaimer: I have not read any of Safechuck's Court Statements. That being said,

I still believe that the majority of the general public is going to say, regarding Safechuck's NEW claims: "If it was that bad, if it was that horrible, WHY DIDN'T YOU TESTIFY IN THE MJ 2005 TRIAL? WHY DID YOU FILE A CIVIL CASE, INSTEAD OF TESTIFYING IN 2005"

Everybody, whether they followed that trial or not, knew how far Sneedon went in order to find new "witnesses of abuse" to bolster his case. And there was Safechuck, ripe and ready with his so-called devastating NEW claims, yet he remained silent. Didn't say a word, UNTIL it was time to sign on with Robson in the hopes of jumping on the Michael Jackson money train.

Safechuck can't say that he was too embarrassed to testify, because that would mean testifying in open court was embarrassing, BUT testifying in a Civil Trial, wherein you might win some money, is NOT embarrassing. He definitely won't win on that theory, folks would see right through that flim-flam excuse, in my opinion.
 
L.T.D;4237336 said:
Think some of you are getting extremely carried away right now and creating all sorts of different scenarios in your heads that haven’t even happened yet.

If Michaels legacy survived not only being accused of it once, but a second time as well, then a silly little TV documentary is going to have no effect at all. Especially since it’s already received a lot of backlash before it’s even been shown!

Put things into perspective, imagine being in 2003 and hearing your idol has been arrested under fresh charges of child molestation......now put yourself back in 2019 where youre hearing about a tv documentary with two easily disproven liars. It won’t even come close to being worse than 1993 or 2003.
I agree LTD. yes, we are going to keep and eye on this nonsense but MJ case is different than the rest that came out in this metoomovement (remember even this movement is getting backlash as well for trying to put everything under the same boat. metoo has pulled back. Also, MJ can PROVE the people in the doc are liars. HOw many people accused now can do that? None. Also, MJ is GONE. anyone can lie on a dead man. MJ case has been more drained than anyone else. So again, it is not the same. Also, as I have said, there have been others accused during this movement and they are doing well like Ryan Seacrest; Anthony Anderson, who has the biggest show on ABC; and others. Right now metoo, the media, etc are all on watch on what they do as well. Like I say for MJ, keep the facts on these guys DEFENDING MJ and their record and showing they lost lawsuits. That is our card something no one today has. Even with Rkelly, it is PROVEN he was married to Aalayah even his lawyer admitted it and he can not do a sit down interview (which he walks out of when asked about these claims; MJ has/had been the opposite).
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Every single molestation allegation against Michael, to this very day, has been absurd, bizarre and fantastic.

But we should stay on the alert and be wary in the era of the #metoo movement where mere allegations carry more weight than ever before. We shouldn't be hysterical, yes, but let's not dismiss or underestimate the situation either. Everywhere I look R. Kelly is compared to Michael now and this pile of sh*t of a film has not even premiered yet.

Even the founder of the Black Lives Matter movement believes the allegations against Michael...

She is a co founder. Her view (which I twitter her @#$) seem to be bias because she think MJ did not want to be black.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I think at this point the Estate should put all the past documentaries on netflix: private home movies, the one, bad, otw and even the footage you were never meant to see.

I agree. And don't forget Thriller in HD.

[youtube]UbW7nOThWuE[/youtube]
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Guys, it's going to air at sundance theres no real reason to fight THAT at this point. There is more money loss for them if they do.. even possible lawsuits, so our work is In Rebuttling not stopping.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

And another thing fans have to remember. GLORIA ALRED was Jordan Chandler's lawyer but QUIT FROM THE CASE after two days and would never say why. The only thing she got onto MJ about later was "the baby balcony". YEt she is going after everyone else. Even Bill Oreilly asked her about quitting the case and he told her "that is not like you unless" and she just moved on.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

And another thing fans have to remember. GLORIA ALRED was Jordan Chandler's lawyer but QUIT FROM THE CASE after two days and would never say why. The only thing she got onto MJ about later was "the baby balcony". YEt she is going after everyone else. Even Bill Oreilly asked her about quitting the case and he told her "that is not like you unless" and she just moved on.
Correct, and even she has been silent, since the whole thing became public knowledge. She was front and center during the trial, putting in her 2 cent whenever she was asked.

And not just her, where are all of the OTHER usual subjects? All of those other fools who followed the 2005 trial and couldn't wait to put their own spin on the day's proceedings. All of the other fools who come running from under their collective rocks as soon as something negative is said regarding Michael Jackson.

Funny how everybody is basically a ghost now!!!

I guess they don't have much to add to the current situation, since the majority of them were in that courtroom and heard Wade Robson's testimony with their own ears. Heard him on that witness stand, UNDER OATH, repeat over and over and over and over again, that Michael Jackson did not molest him.

Although none of them would ever say it publicly, they know, just like we all know, that this is nothing more then a last desperate attempt to obtain a few lousy dollars.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

And yet fans are afraid that MJ might be muted.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Let's see if anybody goes looking for Sneedon's prosecuting team to see what they think about this documentary and how Robson, decided to change his story, after the fact.

According to Robson's new story, he LIED UNDER OATH. What do you think of that Mr. Zonen?????

Robson who got testy and pushed back at the prosecutor's question while on the witness stand. Wade Robson who denied, denied, denied, has now changed his story and is on the prosecution's side. They must be pissed and I for one would love to know what they think about Robson's changed story.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Proud of you bro. Our whole family is sick of being bullied and the butt of jokes and cheap shots. Words matter. <a href="https://t.co/lVfhrggeC6">https://t.co/lVfhrggeC6</a></p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1086329726350745600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">18. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Then stop portraying yourself as a champion for African Americans!&#129318;&#127997;*&#9794;&#65039;My uncle was 1000% INNOCENT. SPREAD THAT!!!! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/miseducated?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#miseducated</a></p>&mdash; TJ Jackson (@tjjackson) <a href="https://twitter.com/tjjackson/status/1086326162295447552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">18. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I haven't said much about the Michael Jackson 'Leaving Neverland' <a href="https://twitter.com/sundancefest?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@sundancefest</a> documentary — until now. Without evidence, why should we have a free pass to destroy the reputations of the dead? <a href="https://t.co/u5xUCoGQWk">https://t.co/u5xUCoGQWk</a></p>&mdash; Mike Smallcombe (@mikesmallcombe1) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikesmallcombe1/status/1086333408526032896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">18. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cops On Alert for Protests During Michael Jackson Sundance Documentary <a href="https://t.co/NGo3Tu7JJ3">https://t.co/NGo3Tu7JJ3</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/TMZ?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TMZ</a></p>&mdash; MJVibe (@Mjvibe) <a href="https://twitter.com/Mjvibe/status/1086187948142481408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">18. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What TMZ is trying to do by posting that there will be cops there, is to try to bolster the &quot;crazy MJ fan&quot; theory. It's false. We know it and they will know it if they show up to Sundance. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ProtestSundance?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ProtestSundance</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MJInnocent?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MJInnocent</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1086344133495611394?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">18. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I'm disturbed to learn that those Sundance b@$^@#%$ are dragging the police into this. They're using them against us fellow fans protesting.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

In my opinion, that "story" about Sundance & Law Enforcement is just a PLANTED story, in a lame attempt to keep this documentary in the media.

To me, this documntary is NOT getting any big time press attention. The folks who made this documentary probably thought they would be getting wall-to-wall coverage and they clearly are not. So they start planting stories, hoping that any documentary type stories catch fire.

AIN'T NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just my humble opinion.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Hi guys,

I was just thinking about Safechuck. He has remained silent and out of the radar since 1994. I find extremely weird he would sit down for an interview for a documentary. We all know Robson loves the attention, but Safechuk not so much. I NEVER liked that guy, his silence always seemed suspicious to me. My memory fails me on this: What do we know about Safechuck from the 2005 trial? Did the prosecution contacted him? Was he labeled as "victim" during the trial? (I know Robson, Culkin and Barnes were, and they shouldn't be called victims of any kind) Did Safechuk declared something in 2003-2005?

And let's think about this scenario: We take for granted the documentary is about Robson and Safechuck. Robson being present on it it's confirmed by the picture used to promote it. And I 99.999% it's Safechuck, but could it be someone else?

What do we know recently about Jonathan Spence? It's been printed Robson contacted him and he refused to join him, but did he defend MJ recently?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Hi guys,

I was just thinking about Safechuck. He has remained silent and out of the radar since 1994. I find extremely weird he would sit down for an interview for a documentary. We all know Robson loves the attention, but Safechuk not so much. I NEVER liked that guy, his silence always seemed suspicious to me. My memory fails me on this: What do we know about Safechuck from the 2005 trial? Did the prosecution contacted him? Was he labeled as "victim" during the trial? (I know Robson, Culkin and Barnes were, and they shouldn't be called victims of any kind) Did Safechuk declared something in 2003-2005?

And let's think about this scenario: We take for granted the documentary is about Robson and Safechuck. Robson being present on it it's confirmed by the picture used to promote it. And I 99.999% it's Safechuck, but could it be someone else?

What do we know recently about Jonathan Spence? It's been printed Robson contacted him and he refused to join him, but did he defend MJ recently?
These tow fools lawyers has already spoke and revealed it is wade and James saying they need to be heard. And hardly no one spoke about this.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/c...jackson-leaving-neverland-documentary-2438824

Wow there are some good journalists! Happy that this one has considered the actual facts rather than what sells, think we need to thank the author for this.
Exactly. This is NOT like 2005. Media is on blast now (one of the only good things trump did) and do not want tombe FAKE MEDIA. if the media talks, they have to bring up everything on these guys.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Some of you guys are thinking about and analysing the impact of it from the perspective of an MJ fan. Most people who see this "documentary" (and it's on HBO... there will be a lot) aren't going to look at it the same way we do. They are going to take whatever they see as fact and move on with the opinion that MJ was a pedophile. It's not as bad as 93 or 03 but it can be very damaging. Nobody is defending Michael except for us and there is only so much we can do. And the general public are not likely to listen to fans of an artist because they are seen as biased.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Exactly. This is NOT like 2005. Media is on blast now (one of the only good things trump did) and do not want tombe FAKE MEDIA. if the media talks, they have to bring up everything on these guys.

That's Mike Smallcombe, the author of "Making Michael".
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Some of you guys are thinking about and analysing the impact of it from the perspective of an MJ fan. Most people who see this "documentary" (and it's on HBO... there will be a lot) aren't going to look at it the same way we do. They are going to take whatever they see as fact and move on with the opinion that MJ was a pedophile. It's not as bad as 93 or 03 but it can be very damaging. Nobody is defending Michael except for us and there is only so much we can do. And the general public are not likely to listen to fans of an artist because they are seen as biased.

Exactly my point.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Some of you guys are thinking about and analysing the impact of it from the perspective of an MJ fan. Most people who see this "documentary" (and it's on HBO... there will be a lot) aren't going to look at it the same way we do. They are going to take whatever they see as fact and move on with the opinion that MJ was a pedophile. It's not as bad as 93 or 03 but it can be very damaging. Nobody is defending Michael except for us and there is only so much we can do. And the general public are not likely to listen to fans of an artist because they are seen as biased.
I disagree to a point. At this point, people either love MJ or NOT. Maybe I have more into humanity but I think most people are tired of it and most people do not like anyone picking on someone who is dead and not here to defend him/herself. To many, some here this and it will be "is this about money". We are fans and sometimes some of us go into orbit. I have been on this board since 2004 and I have heard all of the same thing from the trial in 2005, to the Wade coming out; James coming out; the Fake FBI report; the fake pictures they claims were found that was doctored up; the lawsuits, and now this. Yes, it makes me mad and I will spread the truth but I do not think this is the end all of MJ.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Some of you guys are thinking about and analysing the impact of it from the perspective of an MJ fan. Most people who see this "documentary" (and it's on HBO... there will be a lot) aren't going to look at it the same way we do. They are going to take whatever they see as fact and move on with the opinion that MJ was a pedophile. It's not as bad as 93 or 03 but it can be very damaging. Nobody is defending Michael except for us and there is only so much we can do. And the general public are not likely to listen to fans of an artist because they are seen as biased.

Exactly. This is exactly what is going to happen.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Hi guys,

I was just thinking about Safechuck. He has remained silent and out of the radar since 1994. I find extremely weird he would sit down for an interview for a documentary. We all know Robson loves the attention, but Safechuk not so much. I NEVER liked that guy, his silence always seemed suspicious to me. My memory fails me on this: What do we know about Safechuck from the 2005 trial? Did the prosecution contacted him? Was he labeled as "victim" during the trial? (I know Robson, Culkin and Barnes were, and they shouldn't be called victims of any kind) Did Safechuk declared something in 2003-2005?

And let's think about this scenario: We take for granted the documentary is about Robson and Safechuck. Robson being present on it it's confirmed by the picture used to promote it. And I 99.999% it's Safechuck, but could it be someone else?

What do we know recently about Jonathan Spence? It's been printed Robson contacted him and he refused to join him, but did he defend MJ recently?

Yeah that's what I'm wondering too. I really want to keep on posting facts on comment sections and what not,but we have so much on Robson but barely anything on Safechuck?

As for the news not wanting to be seen as fake news, let's hope they indeed will tell all the ridiculous and shady things about Robson as well. So whenever they cover this sad excuse for a doc they also say "these two men who previously for years on end had defended him, stood by his side", and we'll see about that. I don't know if I trust the media that much.
 
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I have been thinking since the MJ trial that a natural reaction from the media would have been &#8221;all of this started with Jordan Chandler so what is he doing today&#8221; but no. I&#8217;m wondering is this because they already know what they would find so let him remain this ghost instead?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

(...) but barely anything on Safechuck?

Exactly!

I know through the years I've read every court paper, deposition, watched every tv special... and Jimmy Safechuck was always kind of a mystery.

I know it's been published and stated he defended MJ in 1993, but don't remember reading his deposition anywhere (my memory may fail me on this). We all saw Robson, Barnes, Culkin defending MJ in 1993, but Safechuck was nowhere to be seen. I assume everything was OK since he was seen in 1994 with MJ and Lisa Marie during the recording of HIStory Teaser, but zero since then. Do we know for a fact if the police talked to him in 2003-2005 or what did he say? Is there any court paper with his 1993 deposition o police investigation?
 
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NEWS


Michael Jackson Leaving Neverland documentary and why we shouldn't be free to destroy the reputations of the dead
Even without evidence we are free to say whatever we want about those who have passed away - and that isn't right

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BY MIKE SMALLCOMBE
18:16, 18 JAN 2019UPDATED20:35, 18 JAN 2019

When anguished pop superstar Michael Jackson died some ten years ago there was hope in many quarters that he had found peace at last.

But even in death, scandal continues to torment him. First came the ongoing controversy over the legitimacy of three songs on a posthumous album.


Then, in May 2013, a choreographer who Jackson befriended in the late 1980s went on television to allege that he had been sexually abused by Jackson when he was a child.

The man, Wade Robson, had previously testified under oath in defence of Jackson in the 2005 child molestation trial, claiming Jackson had “never” touched him.


But when Jackson was no longer around to defend himself, Robson changed his mind, citing a repressed memory. He was later joined in his accusations by another young Jackson friend, James Safechuck.



Robson and Safechuck sued Michael Jackson's Estate and then the companies it controlled. But in December 2017 a judge dismissed the lawsuit, ruling that they had filed it too late.

The Michael Jackson Estate claimed it was “always about the money rather than a search for the truth".

But Robson and Safechuck weren’t done there. Last week, news broke that HBO and Channel 4 had produced a documentary accusing Jackson of sexually abusing pair of young boys.



Titled Leaving Neverland, the two-part film will debut at the famed Sundance Film Festival in Utah, USA, later this month and then air on the respective networks this spring.

“Two boys, now in their 30s, tell the story of how they were sexually abused by Jackson, and how they came to terms with it years later,” the synopsis said.

Anyone reading this who has no knowledge of these accusers and their case would assume this abuse happened as a matter of fact.



But there is zero evidence that it did, these are merely claims.

Jackson can’t defend himself and his estate and family possess no powers to stop the documentary from being released.

Everything under the sun can be said by the media about dead individuals like Jackson and there is nothing anyone can do about it.


This is what it's like to spend Christmas on Universal Credit in Cornwall



So why is it that we are free to destroy the reputations of those who are no longer with us?

Under law in the UK and the US, the dead cannot be defamed. This is because the view is that reputation is a personal right which ceases to exist when a person dies and it can no longer be damaged.

Defamation is also deemed to be a personal legal action which cannot be assigned or brought on someone’s behalf.



But while Jackson might be dead there’s still a huge amount at stake.

Most importantly the impact of such heinous allegations on his children, who will be profoundly affected by more assertions that their father was a child abuser.

Jackson’s reputation around the globe also made a steady recovery since that damaging trial in 2005 which saw him acquitted of all charges.


When Jackson announced his mega comeback in early 2009 he was viewed as the King of Pop once more and his death only enhanced that notion further. Now people speak more of Jackson’s music and legacy than the circus that was his personal life.

But this documentary will undo much of that progress.

So is there any hope for the family? As relatives of Jackson do they have any rights?


Interestingly, when ruling on a case in 2014 ( Putitstin v Ukraine ) in which the applicant complained that his dead father had been defamed in an article, the European Court of Human Rights accepted that the reputation of a deceased member of a person’s family may come within the scope of article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

This is because the reputation may, in certain circumstances, affect a living relative’s right to respect for a private and family life.

In the case of Putitstin v Ukraine the applicant lost the case on the grounds that the impact on him was very little.

Inside the eerie derelict Newquay hotel that has been left to crumble for more than a decade



While rejecting the case the court said that a claim on the basis of breaching a person’s rights to a private and family life could have succeeded.

But although the European Court has considered a number of cases that related to the reputations of deceased individuals, as yet, none have succeeded.

I can hear the chorus of cries - what about Jimmy Savile? Yes, it was only in death that his horrific crimes were truly uncovered and that his victims felt able to come forward.



Michael Jackson and his father Joe wave to fans as they exit the court after hearing the jury declare Not Guilty on all counts in the child molestation trial at the Santa Barbara County Courthouse on June 13, 2005(Image: Win McNamee/Getty Images)


But there’s a marked difference.

After Savile’s death police launched a criminal investigation into allegations of child sex abuse spanning six decades.

Officers pursued more than 400 lines of inquiry based on the testimony of 300 potential victims from 14 police forces across the UK.

If the authorities were investigating Jackson post-death, if there was evidence of wrongdoing this would be an entirely different scenario. There could be no complaints.


But the media have a responsibility to ensure that what is published or broadcast is true.

Without the evidence how can HBO and Channel 4 be sure that Robson and Safechuck were indeed abused?

Of course the grievances of relatives, and fans in this case, should not have an impact on the uncovering of uncomfortable truths through investigative journalism.

But therein lies the problem - no investigative journalism or police investigation has uncovered any wrongdoing by Jackson.

So even in the absence of evidence, the media has the power to make the world believe that people like Jackson are sinister characters.

That doesn’t sit right with me.

Reporter and author Mike Smallcombe has written about Michael Jackson for several years, including the biography Making Michael.

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