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Contract Murray & AEG Contract

elusive moonwalker said:
Thanks for confirming that ivy.

Yeah thats an intresting point.i dunno ifs and buts u know. Seems no one was very organised.how long would it take to get a licence.surely weeks at least
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Yeah, thanks, Ivy.

Anyone know, about the license? I doubt it's automatic? Was it EVER planned for Murray to go to London? Doesn't really sound like it?

What I don't understand, is that Murray was clearly providing services BEFORE any contract, AND he asked AEG for equipment. I'm sure it's likely that Michael would pay him out of his share, but that isn't in the contract. Is it?
 
thanks for that Ivy that is a very interesting fact that you pointed out...I had never seen/heard that mentioned before....so Murray would of been fired had he not produced a license to practice in the UK come July 3rd...it would of taken him longer than the time he had left to get that license..people cannot just go to another country and practice medicine..wouldn't he of had to of taken some type of test to determine his skills. He only was licensed in 3 states here in the US...hmm...thanks for point this important fact out.
 
xthunderx2 said:
thanks for that Ivy that is a very interesting fact that you pointed out...I had never seen/heard that mentioned before....so Murray would of been fired had he not produced a license to practice in the UK come July 3rd...it would of taken him longer than the time he had left to get that license..people cannot just go to another country and practice medicine..wouldn't he of had to of taken some type of test to determine his skills. He only was licensed in 3 states here in the US...hmm...thanks for point this important fact out.
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Yeah, that seems VERY important, as in, it was never expected that Murray would actually go to London!??

On further reflection, my point still stands -- about WHO hired Murray. This quote:

"A. .... "At the Artist's(Michael Jackson) request, producer (AEG) has agreed to retain the services of Dr.Murray"

9. Artist consent : The effect of this agreement is contingent upon the approval and consent of the Artist (Michael Jackson). Without the Artist's expressed and written approval neither party has any rights or obligations to one another arising from the agreement.
- the contract states that it was Michael's wish to hire Murray. "

Yup, seems like it was Michael's wish for AEG to hire Murray. Above: . . "agreed to retain the services of Dr. Murray." RETAIN means "hire." I'm sure there was an agreement for Michael to reimburse, but that's not in the contract.

The question is, by analogy, if I ask a construction company to hire a particular roofer, who is incompetent, and the company hires that person, and then the person drops lumber on my HEAD. . . WHO is responsible? The one who made the request, or the one who did the hiring. That's an area for the court to decide. . . . probably. . . .
 
Gonna have a google but would u need a licence after all murray was treating one single private paitent.its not like he was looking for a job in a hospital in the uk.maybe it was needed for the insurance cover?

I thought he asked for the equipment for london and seeing as his contract the unsigned one was for london (correct?) any services he was providing to mj before the date of the contract was a private agreement between mj and murray and nothing to do with aeg.and after june 09 murray then asked aeg for payment for services even though there was no contract.which showed even after what he did he was only thinking of getting paid .kinda surprising he didnt file a claim with the estate!
 
Looked on the gmc (general medical council) who registar drs. And u do an online application and murray would have had to fly to the uk to have a one on one identity check before the licence process would start and u have three months to have the id check from when u first apply.they process your application straight away.whether murray would have to do this as he wasnt looking to work in a hos i dont know.the above info is just about general rules

Of course the july date was in the contract signed early 09? So its not like this was a last minute threat by aeg cause he didnt have the licence.tmk theres nothing to say murray didnt have one
 
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Autumn II said:
Yeah, that seems VERY important, as in, it was never expected that Murray would actually go to London!??

On further reflection, my point still stands -- about WHO hired Murray. This quote:

"A. .... "At the Artist's(Michael Jackson) request, producer (AEG) has agreed to retain the services of Dr.Murray"

9. Artist consent : The effect of this agreement is contingent upon the approval and consent of the Artist (Michael Jackson). Without the Artist's expressed and written approval neither party has any rights or obligations to one another arising from the agreement.
- the contract states that it was Michael's wish to hire Murray. "

Yup, seems like it was Michael's wish for AEG to hire Murray. Above: . . "agreed to retain the services of Dr. Murray." RETAIN means "hire." I'm sure there was an agreement for Michael to reimburse, but that's not in the contract.

The question is, by analogy, if I ask a construction company to hire a particular roofer, who is incompetent, and the company hires that person, and then the person drops lumber on my HEAD. . . WHO is responsible? The one who made the request, or the one who did the hiring. That's an area for the
court to decide. . . . probably. . . .
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the bit ivy posted said mj was to pay.ie reimburse aeg for murrays wages.so that isnt the same as the construction story as the construction firm directly hired him and paid his wages after u said hes good u should hire him.mj hired murray and
was paying murray via an allowance from
aeg according to the contract.
 
Autumn II said:
I'm sure it's likely that Michael would pay him out of his share, but that isn't in the contract. Is it?
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Look to the line before Michael's signature supposed to be it says

The undersigned (Michael Jackson) hereby confirm that he has requested Producer to engage Murray on the terms set forth herein on behalf of and at the expense of undersigned (Michael Jackson).

It basically says that they will pay Murray from Michael's expense.

Autumn II said:
Yeah, that seems VERY important, as in, it was never expected that Murray would actually go to London!??
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and that's my point. I don't think the licensing is automatic. Perhaps he wasn't even going to London.
 
Ivy.the bit about the licence was from the original contract signed late 08 early 09??.if thats the case it was just a standard stipulation in the contract.if thats what it was then its v different to lets say that july info coming from a letter in early june basically as a threat that if u dont get a licence u are out
 
Ivy is there anyway that we can check to see if Murray WAS issued this license to practice in the UK? I know in the US all doctors medical licenses are public display...don't know if this same law applies to the UK.
 
Joe's lawsuit claims that Murray started working in May, the contract starts in May, Murray's first order of propofol is April. So it seems like at most his negotiations goes back to April 2009 or May 2009. AEG have him 2-3 months to get his licence IMO. and perhaps he got it, we don't know.

but the looks of the contract (with the request of licence and item 4.2) it doesn't seem like AEG was trying to get a rogue doctor who would do anything and everything. It rather looks like they were trying to get a legit doctor that would act within the legal and generally accepted principals.
 
xthunderx2 said:
Ivy is there anyway that we can check to see if Murray WAS issued this license to practice in the UK? I know in the US all doctors medical licenses are public display...don't know if this same law applies to the UK.
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ill have a look on the gmc site see if theres anything
 
ivy said:
Joe's lawsuit claims that Murray started working in May, the contract starts in May, Murray's first order of propofol is April. So it seems like at most his negotiations goes back to April 2009 or May 2009. AEG have him 2-3 months to get his licence IMO. and perhaps he got it, we don't know.

but the looks of the contract (with the request of licence and item 4.2) it doesn't seem like AEG was trying to get a rogue doctor who would do anything and everything. It rather looks like they were trying to get a legit doctor that would act within the legal and generally accepted principals.
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Well they failed.. they should've asked Murray what kind of treatments he would be providing and what types of medications would MJ be under?
 
elusive moonwalker said:
ill have a look on the gmc site see if theres anything
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Theres a search option on the site.nothing came up for murray but tbh i doubt anything would.i guess he would get a temp licence.if they do that? If u are only staying for a short time.i think unless we asked them directly we cant be sure whether he got a licence or not
 
ivy said:
Joe's lawsuit claims that Murray started working in May, the contract starts in May, Murray's first order of propofol is April. So it seems like at most his negotiations goes back to April 2009 or May 2009. AEG have him 2-3 months to get his licence IMO. and perhaps he got it, we don't know.

but the looks of the contract (with the request of licence and item 4.2) it doesn't seem like AEG was trying to get a rogue doctor who would do anything and everything. It rather looks like they were trying to get a legit doctor that would act within the legal and generally accepted principals.
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Yup, it does look that way. I wonder if that email from Murray requesting a nurse and "CPR machine" will come into play? I have NO idea why, if they wanted a "legit" doctor, that email wouldn't have caused an immediate reaction, as in, "What the hell are you DOING?" Unless the email somehow went astray, wasn't forwarded on, or whatever. It was posted here, but I forget, was there also a response to that email?
 
elusive moonwalker said:
Theres a search option on the site.nothing came up for murray but tbh i doubt anything would.i guess he would get a temp licence.if they do that? If u are only staying for a short time.i think unless we asked them directly we cant be sure whether he got a licence or not
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that makes sense Elusive..that he would be issued a temporary license...but..guess we will never know if he ever even was issued that. thanks for looking.. edit...this will probably be a question that is discussed during the trial...so we will know sooner or later I guess
 
Karen is another factor.. if she is so close to Randy and she felt her friend MJ was in bad shape, why didn't she go to MJ's family? why didn't she call Randy she knows him? Instead Randy is upset with Kenny Ortega for not calling the family. Why isn't Randy mad with Karen who has known MJ for 25 years?
 
elusive moonwalker said:
Didnt she claim ortega told her
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Yes maybe, but she said Michael had told her about them coming to his house threatening him and she also said that Ortega got angry with Michael at rehearsals and I think it was then she used then word riot. She has been saying so much and changing her story. And it may be so that Ortega told her and she told Randy who told Katherine.

Everything in LaToyas book seem to be words taken from Karen's Facebook and follower fans.. *sigh*

I have most things saved from her Facebook, I need to go back checking. I'm not crazy.. just saying.. But I know she can change her words a lot and when she started to talk about Michael on her Facebook I started to save what she wrote.
 
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Yeah shes a total flip flopper which i guess is why even the defence dont want to use her as a witness.
 
Autumn II said:
Why the contract wasn't signed will certainly be a sticking point[/I]. But that goes back to the "oral agreement" argument, which can be binding in court, and the proof of that is in the email exchanges between AEG and Murray, and the dates of those exchanges, and the contents. WHY the contract wasn't signed might not be relevant in the end, if an employer/employee relationship can be established between AEG and Murray. Given the wording of the contract, coupled with the emails, I think it CAN be established.
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In my opinion, AEG didn't want to hire Murray at all and everything they did, or didn't do was merely a STALLING tactic. A stalling tactic, in the hopes that Michael would change his mind.

First of all, Murry was TOO expensive and AEG knew they could get Michael excellent medical care, if needed, once they arrived in London. If I'm not mistaken, they also would have had to pick up Murray's living expenses. Why go through all of that trouble and expense, when you could obtain quality medical care in London?

I'm sure there were many, MANY round-table discussions regarding this matter, and I won't be surprised if that type of testimony becomes part of the record, i.e. "We never wanted Murray to be a part of the team. We were hoping Michael changed his mind."
 
thats certainly the impression that you get from this. didnt dileo claim he re negotiated the contract cause murray was asking for to much. when was that renegotiated? presume not long b4 the 25th if the contract was in murrays car.
 
Big Apple2 said:
In my opinion, AEG didn't want to hire Murray at all and everything they did, or didn't do was merely a STALLING tactic. A stalling tactic, in the hopes that Michael would change his mind.

First of all, Murry was TOO expensive and AEG knew they could get Michael excellent medical care, if needed, once they arrived in London. If I'm not mistaken, they also would have had to pick up Murray's living expenses. Why go through all of that trouble and expense, when you could obtain quality medical care in London?

I'm sure there were many, MANY round-table discussions regarding this matter, and I won't be surprised if that type of testimony becomes part of the record, i.e. "We never wanted Murray to be a part of the team. We were hoping Michael changed his mind."
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Yeah, makes economic sense to get a good shrink in London.
Either that, or AEG is waiting for him to produce his medical license in London. Without his license he cannot take up insurance. AEG 's just protecting themselves and covering their a$$e$
 
elusive moonwalker said:
thats certainly the impression that you get from this. didnt dileo claim he re negotiated the contract cause murray was asking for to much. when was that renegotiated? presume not long b4 the 25th if the contract was in murrays car.
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I'm sure I read a "quote" from Frank DiLeo, wherein he says something like:

He told Michael that "Murray was asking for too much money, and that they could hire an ENTIRE HOSPITAL for that amount of money."

And if I recall correctly, DiLeo also mentioned how easy and CHEAPER it would be to hire a doctor once they arrived in London.

So I don't "think" it was much of a secret how those on the inside felt about hiring Conrad Murray.
 
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