Conrad Murray CNN interviews / Apr 2nd Anderson Cooper / April 5th Documentary

[Big Apple2]

Well Murray had to have been paid something to survive. AEG gave MJ cash advances MJ probably gave Murray cash from that I would think. I'm shaking my head here at some people. Michaels odd behavior over the past was not just normal come on he was taking something. Klein was fueling him with Demerol like it or not I believe that to be true. Look at MJ public appearances over the past he was on something come on. To much denial here. He took to many opioid pain killers that's why he had insomnia adding in all the stress. Murray was probably trying to detox him in some ****ed up way. He was freezing from withdrawal from some sort of drug probably Demerol or something. Don't shoot the messenger but I believe MJ was an addict of some sort dose not make him a bad person. His body was control by something powerful.

"His body was controlled by something powerful."

Something POWERFUL that didn't show up in his autopsy. Yeah, that makes sense.

You can guess and speculate, but the autopsy has FINAL authority over your guesses and speculation. There's a reason an autopsy is performed and a "person's public appearances over the past" does not play a factor in said autopsy.

 

[zhelva]

I dont know if this was already posted but.. what the hell?? From CNN:

Michael Jackson's doctor broke into song during an interview from jail with Anderson Cooper.

http://on.cnn.com/XMiBRk

 

[Bubs]

Well Murray had to have been paid something to survive. AEG gave MJ cash advances MJ probably gave Murray cash from that I would think. I'm shaking my head here at some people. Michaels odd behavior over the past was not just normal come on he was taking something. Klein was fueling him with Demerol like it or not I believe that to be true. Look at MJ public appearances over the past he was on something come on. To much denial here. He took to many opioid pain killers that's why he had insomnia adding in all the stress. Murray was probably trying to detox him in some ****ed up way. He was freezing from withdrawal from some sort of drug probably Demerol or something. Don't shoot the messenger but I believe MJ was an addict of some sort dose not make him a bad person. His body was control by something powerful.

????
May ask where did you get you medical license and how many times you saw or spoke to Michael as you seem to know awful lot about him?

 

[jaydom7]

How did this nut get a medical license? it is very scary that this fool was a cardiologist that was actually doing operations on folks and dispensing dangerous drugs. Very very scary! Doctors need psych evaluations as well

 

[athina_livadi]

Some of us have been aware of his insomnia problem for 20 years. We also have been aware of his use of pain killers when he got that damn burn back in 1984and on. We also have been aware of Demerol, Zanax and other pain killers. Let's put ourselves in his place for a moment! We got a very painful burn in our sculp that demanded continuous treatment and rebuild operations over the years. In addition to that we have lupus and vitiligo with very painful and stressful symptoms throughout our life. In 1993 we get accused of child molestation and our psychological state collapses. Until 2003 we never stop fighting lawsuits, the media, the public. In 2003 there are other accusations of child molestation, we get arrested and brought to court in 2005. The social services try to take our children away from us and the court decision has been decided before...GUILTY because we are who we are!!!
Conclusion, if any of us was in Michael's place I don't think we would have survived all this without getting crazy!!! Yet Michael managed to get up and continue no matter how much he hurt inside and out!!!
So don't tell me about addictions and stuff. The man was a hero to be able to survive all this hell of his called life!!!

 

[Vici]

^^^ Agree 100%. People need to put things into context. I will always be in awe of him. Inspite of all the shitt he went through he always kept his head high and was able to love back

 

[Smooth72]

????
May ask where did you get you medical license and how many times you saw or spoke to Michael as you seem to know awful lot about him?

My degree is in common sense. I as like most of you have followed MJ for years and if you have not questioned yourself at all about his erratic behavior your just in denial. I love MJ more than anything and his loss is tragic and has change my life in many ways. He is my idol and I defend him on just about anything but to sit back and deny I believe he was a drug user would make me look like an idiot. I wanted him to come back so bad and show the world and my young children just what he stood for. Peace and happiness MJ would not hurt a fly but he did hurt himself because if all the stress he had to deal with. MJ I believe always tried to hide his problem for his image. He was the greatest and he wanted everyone to still believe that. I hate what Murray did. I hate what AEG did. I dispise what the Jackson's are doing. I just want the music that he was working on before he died. I want to know what he was thinking and feeling. Certain drugs only stay in your system so long especially opioids. When was his last documented visit to ****ing Klien he was the biggest problem. I don't want to fight with anyone over this but I guess that's what the forum is for. Release the music estate like MJ tell the story!

 

[LastTear]

We all have different views on the whole 'addict' subject but we all agree that whatever there was/wasn't no one is blaming Michael.

 

[Bubs]

Yet Michael managed to get up and continue no matter how much he hurt inside and out!!!
So don't tell me about addictions and stuff. The man was a hero to be able to survive all this hell of his called life!!!

I love your post, especially to bolded part.
My heart hurts for Michael that he had to go through so much crap in his lifetime, and it is not over yet for Michael.

 

[bouee]

Well Murray had to have been paid something to survive. AEG gave MJ cash advances MJ probably gave Murray cash from that I would think. I'm shaking my head here at some people. Michaels odd behavior over the past was not just normal come on he was taking something. Klein was fueling him with Demerol like it or not I believe that to be true. Look at MJ public appearances over the past he was on something come on. To much denial here. He took to many opioid pain killers that's why he had insomnia adding in all the stress. Murray was probably trying to detox him in some ****ed up way. He was freezing from withdrawal from some sort of drug probably Demerol or something. Don't shoot the messenger but I believe MJ was an addict of some sort dose not make him a bad person. His body was control by something powerful.

I think everyone will agree that Michael had a problem with mediaction at some point(s) in his life. he said so himself. Was he still addicted to anything in 2009 ? Probably not, or if he was, it was to the benzos injected by Murray instead or with propofol. (this is not proven either, just something that was left unclear after the trial, due to the amount of injectable benzos and antidotes to benzos that CM was buying).
As for the reasons of his insomnia, it was not clear either, no one can say that it was due to too many pain killers in 2009. The doctors on the stand could not say that, and none of them confirmed addiction.
If Murray was trying to "detox" him with propofol, fine, but first , it's really weird for a doctor to do that - we have not heard of one single doctor saying propofol is a sleep aid, or something to detox someone with- then at least Murray should have done it with the right equipment and definitely should have not left the room. But honestly, look at what was said during the trial, Murray did NOT try to detox him of anything. Listen to what jusge Pastor said at sentencing. He sums it up perfectly.
Michael wanted propofol, Murray gave it to him for money, lied to him and to everybody else, and felt confident enough to do it without the right equipment and left the room. A real doctor would have said no, and taken him to a sleep specialist, or addiction specialist if he suspected addiction.

Edited to add : the flu like symptoms you describe could have been a number of things : a cold, side effects from propofol, or too much /withdrawal from benzos.

 

[bouee]

Certain drugs only stay in your system so long especially opioids. When was his last documented visit to ****ing Klien he was the biggest problem. I don't want to fight with anyone over this but I guess that's what the forum is for.

That was adressed during the trial : according to the Kleins invoices ,it did indicate past use of opioids, but the visits to Klein were too irregular to create an addiction or dependancy; and Klein should not have used demerol for the procedures he was doing.

 

[sophiemj]

First walk in his shoes then talk ....'NUPH SAID ! Sometimes WE his fans become his worst CURSE Can never forget how many "fans" cursed him even in this forum, when he changed the initial dates of the tour, that is still a thorn in my heart ....

 

[goldiee]

I just caught a small part of it (nausea was an issue. . ) but now I'm thinking, "this man is stark, raving, mad, and WHY didn't someone notice?" ANYONE? Or, he's even crazier now, or what? Anderson asked him what he was going to do when he got out (assuming he wouldn't practice medicine, again), and he said something like, "continue my philanthropy." "CONTINUE?" Isn't the dude flat-broke? And what about all that child-support? (here come the books, although now it's not likely anyone would want to read the rantings of a lunatic. .. .) He's never taken an ounce of responsibility for killing Michael! And he continues to say it wasn't "his fault." This is some entirely different category of human-being. . . . (and I use that term loosely.) When he was SINGING, Anderson looked like he felt trapped, and he had this incredulous "WTF?" expression on his face. That was material far beyond the "Ridiculist." Wow, that was bad. . . . .

I'd be willing to bet someone did notice he was crazy and a sociopath but because it was Michael Jackson, who cares?

 

[Autumn II]

I'm not sure if saying this person is sick to come rehearsals or he's in perfect health violates any HIIPA regulations. I see a lot of doctor notes , I have gotten a lot of doctor notes. I was never asked to sign a release and such notes were always brief and never included detailed medical information.

Point taken. So, I think it would depend on the extent of the information given, i.e. detail? I do know that in my family, a relative of mine has NO access to any information about her own (adult) daughter's medical information (because the daughter has not signed a release).

http://www.onlinetech.com/compliant...t-hosting/resources/what-is-a-hipaa-violation

The link doesn't detail specifics about how much info is TOO much. . ..

 

[goldiee]

Re: Conrad Murray will be interviewed by CNN on Tue April 2nd

We can all laugh at him singing, I did too, I actually said WTF out loud at the screen, but when you put it in its context, this headcase may have been the last person that Michael ever saw and definitely had Michael's health and his life in his hands. That's scary and sobering when you think about it.

 

[Smooth72]

Certain drugs only stay in your system so long especially opioids. When was his last documented visit to ****ing Klien he was the biggest problem. I don't want to fight with anyone over this but I guess that's what the forum is for./QUOTE]
That was adressed during the trial : according to the Kleins invoices ,it did indicate past use of opioids, but the visits to Klein were too irregular to create an addiction or dependancy; and Klein should not have used demerol for the procedures he was doing.

Kliens invoices or lack of invoices. People on this forum reported him going to Klien several times a week before his death. My question is how many times did Klien goto MJs house to "treat" him? We don't know. Bottom line there were to many doctors treating him and nine of them were aware of what each different dr was treating him with. **** all these Dr's including DR Thome something just does not jive.

I have a autoimmune disease and go to 2 drs. If I didn't communicate with them they would have know idea what I was being treated with from each. One work at one of the most respected universities in the world. My wife and I really can't believe the communication gap it's crazy. So I would guess with someone of MJs stature they would be awe struck and not even really pay attention. And I do take opioid pain killers daily and do know what the can do to you mentally and physically. Luckily I don't have a addictive personality and can control to an extent the dependency.

 

[sophiemj]

For me the question IS WHO WAS WITH HIM THE LAST NIGHT and IN THE MORNING, I remember reports saying that Randy was stalking him at night after the rehearshal and then in the morning at home, can anyone confirm that? That only shows he was not that much allienated. I f anyone knows please let me know ....

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: Conrad Murray will be interviewed by CNN on Tue April 2nd

^Only latoya, so not credible.

I actually didn't bow at him, but what he said, secondly, I have no clue who the hell is Toobin, and this is the first time I heard of him thus I wasn't aware of what he said of MJ previously.
Out of respect, I have removed insulting bow from my original post.

Max had posted something about toobin before your post and i had googled him and found he was the usual tv media judge jury and executioner on mj's life, so just got super-irritated by that halleluya icon when i came across it, so thanks bubs for zapping him!

 

[PoP]

I've been ranting every word from Conrad Murray throughout the Anderson Cooper 360 show and Valeri Wass should just shut up. Yeah I did snicker at Murray's singing. Plus I agree with Thomas Messerau on Piers Morgan which I admit it's good to see him on TV for a long time, I agree with what he believes about Murray being irresponsible and not doing his job properly like he should and should never get his medical license back EVER!

 

[Bubs]

@Smooth72

Are you seriously saying that luckily you don't have addictive personality so you control the extent of dependency, but according to you MJ was just plain old out of control addict. WTH??????

 

[Smooth72]

@Smooth72

Are you seriously saying that luckily you don't have addictive personality so you control the extent of dependency, but according to you MJ was just plain old out of control addict. WTH??????

No I'm implying I communicate with both my drs so they both know what each perscribe to me. I don't dr shop and double dip for pain meds. Smh. It's pointless even giving opinions or real life examples. Lot of attacking on here. That's what happens when you have a forum of experts as some of you call me. Have a good day!

 

[Bubs]

Re: Conrad Murray will be interviewed by CNN on Tue April 2nd

Max had posted something about toobin before your post and i had googled him and found he was the usual tv media judge jury and executioner on mj's life, so just got super-irritated by that halleluya icon when i came across it, so thanks bubs for zapping him!

I hadn't read all the posts on thread, and I was replying to posts as read along, so Max's post hadn't caught my eye yet, but
I still agree with what he said:cheeky:
I just cannot start hating someone because someone says I should. I need to come to my own conclusions whether I like or hate someone.

I understand, we all will get super duper irritated later on when trial gets on the way, so wait until feathers starts flying

 

[bouee]

No I'm implying I communicate with both my drs so they both know what each perscribe to me. I don't dr shop and double dip for pain meds. Smh. It's pointless even giving opinions or real life examples. Lot of attacking on here. That's what happens when you have a forum of experts as some of you call me. Have a good day!

this is a bit OT and derailing the thread, that's why i didn't reply to your last post. But I can't let this go, as the forum can be read by everyone. You should have a look at the recaps that Ivy did during the criminal trial, and have a look at what the doctors said (both sides) about what happened, and generally speaking about insomnia, addiction and how medication works.

Things are a little more complicated. I'm sorry for what happens to you, and glad that you can manage pain killers. But its'not always that simple, it's not only a question of personality, you can become physically dependant on certain medication. And stress doesn't help.

You said that Michael was not telling Murray about Klein. Probably true, but Murray knew about klein anyway. And demerol had nothing to do with what happened on june 25th. Michael died from propofol side effects, because he was not monitored. Murray was in another room, making phone calls for about 45 mn, and left Michael alone, on a propofol drip, unmonitored.
Michael was NOT doctor shopping, and Murray is a 100% responsible, he did NOT try to detox him, far from that. I think he might have been doing the opposite (but that's not proven).

Edit : here is the link the trial summaries : http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/119153-Murray-Trial-_-All-daily-trial-Summaries-No-discussion-November-7-Verdict-announced

 

[jaydom7]

Murray knew about Klein and if he had any questions about MJ's past medical history he should've called Klein himself to find out what medical issues had and what Klein was treating him for. Murray did no background check at on MJ even though he knew of the rumors for years and MJ's own acknowledgment of a painkiller problem in 1993. It was Murray's responsibility before he treated MJ to do blood and urine work to find out about MJ's issues.

 

[Big Apple2]

Murray knew about Klein and if he had any questions about MJ's past medical history he should've called Klein himself to find out what medical issues had and what Klein was treating him for. Murray did no background check at on MJ even though he knew of the rumors for years and MJ's own acknowledgment of a painkiller problem in 1993. It was Murray's responsibility before he treated MJ to do blood and urine work to find out about MJ's issues.

True dat!

In my opinion, that's STANDARD practice. A doctor would do a complete work up, BEFORE he does anything else. And definitely keep complete and detailed records, something I don't believe Murray did at all.

If I recall correctly, when Murray was asked about Michael's medical records, he said it was just a few pages, and didn't consist of much.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

...
I have a autoimmune disease and go to 2 drs. If I didn't communicate with them they would have know idea what I was being treated with from each. One work at one of the most respected universities in the world. My wife and I really can't believe the communication gap it's crazy. So I would guess with someone of MJs stature they would be awe struck and not even really pay attention. And I do take opioid pain killers daily and do know what the can do to you mentally and physically. Luckily I don't have a addictive personality and can control to an extent the dependency.

What country are you in? In the US I can tell you that a Doctor in the year 2013 can see with a few clicks which meds have been legally prescribed to you. I've seen my own list...
Even my dentists asks for updated med lists. Almost every physician I've seen in the US asks for updated med lists and asks me to make sure it's current. Some docs even have asked other offices for the records to make sure they get the total picture. And that is completely within the realm of a responsible physician to do. Murray's excuses for 'not knowing for Michael was up to" are out of this world.

Even dispensing pharmacists in the US are more and and more trained to catch interactions between drugs they dispense.
And if you're in the US you are probably familiar with the protocol involved of picking up opiods at the pharmacy.

Chronic pain patients even have difficulty obtaining legally prescribed drugs at times. Many pharmacies refuse to dispense opiods after nightfall, to new and unestablished patients, you may not refill opiods until you are very close to running out etc.
Whole pharmacies are being shut down if any irregularities emerge.

Simply take the name "Michael Jackson" out of the picture and your bias will magically disappear - and you feel see exactly WHY Murray is in jail. I'm surprised the university that awarded him his doctoral degree isn't all over him.
Michael died 'at the hands of another' which is exactly why Klein was not on trial for the the death of Michael on 6/25/2009.

I'm one of these people that can smoke like a chain smoker for a week and never smoke again - that's just favorable brain chemistry and has nothing to do with an 'addictive personality' - I might react far faster to something else.

The fact remains that the usual pain killers that you and I are familiar with don't play a role in the events of that night. The Judge was quite correct in his rulings to keep this Demerol talk to a minimum. Michael had no mountains of hydrocodone in his house.

It's Murray's incredible failure as a Doctor and human being that landed him in jail. Any Doctor who throws anesthesia bottles and lidocaine around a patient's room should be facing issues.
That is not being blinded and unable to face the truth. Michael died at the hands of another and just like every other homicide victim he is not to be blamed for his own homicide.

Accusing others of a bias is rather unhelpful when one's own bias does not allow for the possibility that we all can become a victim of homicide. All this talk of Michael's past etc does not negate the fact that his physician was convicted of manslaughter. You should wonder about Murray's inability to accept responsibility for killing Michael, instead of stepping on a man that is already down - dead, actually. The homicide victim Michael Jackson.

 

[jamba]

Legally, doesn't matter that they did or did not "get information," but rather, what the emails seem to imply is that they felt they had a right to have information, demonstrated by their "asking" for it. What T-Mez was saying was that those requests for information were indicators that they hired him, or co-hired him. So either Michael signed a document releasing Murray from confidentiality -- in which case it was ok to ask for/expect information, or he did not sign a HIIPA release. (There is no indication that he did.) Example would be -- if I have an employee, and go to that employee's doctor to find out about his medical condition (for whatever reasons), an ethical doctor would NOT give me that information. (so in that sense, even if AEG WERE the employers, they still should not have had a right to that information, given patient confidentiality.)

T-Mez also pointed to the (unsigned) contract, that had three signature lines -- Michael's, AEG's, and Murray's. Even though it was unsigned, it is evidence that K.J.'s attorneys will use as to an "oral agreement" with expectations that the document would be signed.

With that said, it's clear that T-Mez was advocating for the FAMILY, and he may or may not be right, that "Katherine Jackson will win the case." That is far from certain.

Thanks for this clarification. when did they 'ask for information'--medical information. Is there an email where they specifically want medical info? I guess they would want to know if he passed the physical required for the insurance--but when did they ask CM for specific medical info on MJ? Asking him to get MJ to rehearsals--or take care of his medical needs enough so that he can perform as required--is that a HIPPA violation? Doesn't seem to require medical info to me.

 

[jamba]

I'm not sure if saying this person is sick to come rehearsals or he's in perfect health violates any HIIPA regulations. I see a lot of doctor notes , I have gotten a lot of doctor notes. I was never asked to sign a release and such notes were always brief and never included detailed medical information.

Good point, ivy. If I am going to miss more than 3 days at work, I need a doctor's note but I never signed a release. It just says things like ' please allow absence from work from this date to that date.'

 

[jamba]

Yeah, I agree on this one. I don't think the emails hold that much weight, only because Murray was NEVER paid.

Personally, I equate words like "employer," "work," and "hired" as meaning PAID.

In my opinion, since Murray was never paid, that particular email amounts to Blowing Smoke.

I guess they continue to push the Smoking Gun angle, because that's all they have. Now had Murray been paid, I would be saying something different.

Yes, being paid is v. important to an employee!! Otherwise, you are essentially a volunteer. The other point is that emals are v. informal--people say all kinds of things--typos, off the cuff, heat of the moment, etc.--they are so informal--how can they really be a smoking gun--just an EMAIL is going to get you $40 BILLION--I don't think so.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

this is a bit OT and derailing the thread, that's why i didn't reply to your last post.

Yeah, we're getting OT, but hey, that's what every once in a while forum members get characterized as needing a reality check.
Which is why it's actually important that people cite real-life info.

Murray refuses to take responsibility by stating that he 'didn't know'. Hm. If he wanted to know which scripts were written to Michael and what has been dispensed - (pretty easy on any iPhone - and certainly manageable by somebody who secretly record his patient!) to CURES would have informed Murray of at least the scripts written for Michael in his actual name. Someone who's so apt at writing emails while on the move is incredibly bad at coming up with excuses for killing his patient.

And if there was doubt about Klein - he could at least asked. If 'humongous' amounts of Demerol have been dispensed by Klein under a weird name over and over and over again - Murray could have could have initiated a report much, much earlier. Not to mention that Demerol did not kill Michael - but apparently that still hasn't sunk it with Murray.

And all he had to do was open the browser on his iPhone to check where TMZ was stalking Michael going to Klein's Office. Pretty easy you would think.

The outrageous thing is the kettle calling the pot black. Murray doesn't keep charts and using alias - and accuses Klein of, well, engaging in equally questionable medical practices. It is so twisted to point the finger when a heck of a lot of fingers pointed back at Murray the entire time.

This 'interview' is just proving it all over again - just the way Mr. Mesereau keeps saying. He refuses to accept any responsibility for killing his patient and jail is the place he belongs in.

People can walk into these threads and accuse forum members over and over again of needing a reality check - but I can guarantee that most of us will be happy to state why a jury found Murray guilty of manslaughter. Over and over again.