Bad Tour DVD [CLOSED] Cont. discussion in The Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley DVD Quality

[Arklove]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

I did; I just liked being a technical jackass Actually, I would love to see the quality of the Seoul concert without any fan remastering and compare to any other Wembley snippets that may arise in due time - they were shot very similarly i.e. very few crowd shots (given that the DVD is based on what was shown on the JumboTrons).

Why you little.....:western: Kidding,

 

[Jesta]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Why you little.....:western: Kidding,

By the way, that concert was only released in Korea, appropriately enough. So I wouldn't blame you for not hearing about it

 

[Arklove]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

By the way, that concert was only released in Korea, appropriately enough. So I wouldn't blame you for not hearing about it

Oh really now? You've dug yourself into an even deeper hole

 

[Jesta]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Oh really now? You've dug yourself into an even deeper hole

I don't feel comfortable down here...

Oh well, it's a good hole to be in... Y'know, aside from the turtles up there.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

okay after stepping back for a couple of days and just reading the thread daily, I think the main concern everyone shares, which seems most valid from this discussion is:

Nocturne productions filmed MJ's gigs, every single one! including the Wembley 88 show being released, the question is why can't the estate use a master copy of the Jumbotron edit shown to the crowd that evening, possibly from beta tape (or allegedly film reel???) and utilise a better quality source than VHS?

The estate have said in their statement for the press that the VHS is the only copy known to exist, however we have heard from several sources say that the estate have the master copies from Nocturne? Not to mention, over the years various news outlets were given copies of footage to show, and these copies must have been cloned from a master. There are TV networks and even fans who have traded Bad Tour footage looking to be in better quality than VHS.

The estate own all copyright and distribution rights, no one is able to sell or promote anything to do with Michaels tours without the estate, the Dangerous Tour's performance in Bucharest has been released and was filmed also by Nocturne productions, so what is the problem they are up against with this release? Noone would have a say in this release apart from Nocturne, or the Estate.Michael (not Nocturne) personally sold the rights for this concert to be shown around the world in 1992 and also be released on dvd in 2005, therefore it is confusing as to why he hasn't retained the same rights and privileges when it pertains to concerts filmed by the same production company for an earlier tour?



I too am so grateful about the release of a Bad Tour but i guess these are real questions and concerns that stem from love and passion for this project to be the absolute best, and not to spread negativity, only to enhance the project for the better!

Michael would have expected nothing less...


taken from "What I learned from Michael" (evident Productions blog)
http://www.evidentproductions.com/


"Jackson shattered all barriers... He didn’t just want wow, he wanted mind-blowing, and anything less was not worth doing. Whereas other artists might be OK with the status quo, Jackson wanted and personally invested in the best and allowed us all to work to our full potential. He pushed our capacity for creativity and greatness and that’s why he set the standard in the industry. He also trusted us who knew the technical side of things to make his vision a reality.

His perfectionism showed in everything he did, in his style of dance, in his performance details, in his attention to every note in his songs, and in his personal involvement in the creativity and development process of the shows he produced."


I think Michael would have pushed for better quality, and in my heart I know he would not have been satisfied with a VHS transfer when no doubt another source exists somewhere, it may require some work to get there, so to justify the millions the estate makes, I think they should put some more work into this release.

I'm personally getting sick and tired of being labelled as negative because we're discussing (in the thread made appropriately for this topic so we don't infiltrate the general discussion of this release!), yet we're still criticized in our own thread..

I think ALL of us who have expressed questions and concern about this primitive format of release have stated time and time again that we ARE happy with this release! What else do you want us to say?? I'm not kissing anyone's ass, sorry. We have every right to discuss this...So please, stop with this 'negativity' crap...

I've gone around in the other BAD25 threads expressing my happiness and excitement for ALL parts of this release...Even the concert....So why don't those people who are constantly calling us negative comment on any of THOSE posts (not just by me, but by others as well)...It's your own fault if you want to zero on only those aspects...

I just want to see any MJ product being released as the best that can be offered...Why is that wrong to ask for? It's my money I'm spending, it's my idol's legacy and artwork being presented...

We can sit around and 'wait and see' until release, but what good would that do? Then it's out in the stores and nothing else can be done by that time....

The fact of the matter is that VHS is crap quality. Period. Why deny that? So we're concerned and want Michael Jackson to be shown in a way that every other artist is shown....I just want to know WHY VHS is all that is available...Estate, I'm not putting you down, but please, this is what Michael put you in charge for...

I didn't care about WHAT concert was released...I personally don't know the difference...lol....I just want great quality that includes SC,DD,TWYMMF....Too much? I don't think so...Especially considering not a single official live concert of MJ has ever been released aside from Bucharest...

Michael Jackson always wanted the BEST..Did we, as fans, EVER question that? I don't think so. So then why are the fans now being criticized because we want what we're accustomed to. Yes, Michael is not here to create his magic....BUT, with this release, the magic is already there...But in a sub par quality. We are the consumers. This is our prerogative. Not 'be happy with whatever we can get'...THAT type of attitude gets you VISION, and the MICHAEL album...What year are we living in exactly? The opportunity is there, the technology is there...The resources are there....USE THEM!

GO BIG OR GO HOME ...

All of the above! I will admit, that at first I did not realize the situation was as bad as it seems to be. But after reading through this the last few days I understand were we are now. What annoyed me was that on several or more threads, the quality issue was all anybody was talking about and it seemed negative. People like Ark and Bigdb are making plenty of sense and are logical people. No one is merely adding fule to the fire. It is a major concern! And it does need to be addressed!

The quality on the This Is It blu-ray is FANTASTIC, and it would not be right to follow it with a VHS release. Dvd is one thing, but VHS in this day and age just isin't right. THATS JUST GOING COMPLETELY BACKWARDS!!

Some one also posted MJ's letter regarding his vision for how his show should be captured. This only furthers what we already know. That MJ himself would be appalled. He always spoke about his love for film and how it was his favourite medium.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

I agree with Arklove, i made this topic becuase people were calling us negitive torward this wonderful release. I created this topic for a debate, and i love debate. In fact without the Michael Album debate i may have not stayed here as long as i have. Im interested in debate, its fun and i learn alot. But at the end of the day, i am a consumer, and i work for my money and i want it to go torward a quality product (which we are getting), we just want to know all the ifs, ands, buts, who, what, when, why, and hows.

And, you are not alone. Every consumer demands quality product. Nowadays, nobody expects blurry picture when buying an official DVD. Most people don't follow the release of Bad 25 religiously. Most would not know the source of the DVD is a VHS rip, unless there is a big disclamier on the cover of the DVD. Most would not be as lenient on the lack of picture quality.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

^^ I wasn't holding my breath for a BluRay release....I just never figured we'd get it...just judging from how old this concert is....TII, yes, I did expect Bluray because it was just a few years ago...

I expected great DVD quality...Now I would completely understand if fans were going on and on whining about wanting Bluray and not settling for GREAT DVD quality...(I still think Dangerous Short Films and HIStory Short Films are great quality....

But this VHS snippets we've been seeing is just a little ridiculous and I find it a little strange that people are championing this VHS quality...

 

[Jesta]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Out of curiosity, was anyone vocally disappointed with about 30% of the shots used in This Is It? i.e. the fact that the professional shots were SD and therefore looked bad quality and didn't fit the full screen. I found it odd how a HD set-up wasn't used for the professional cameras while the handheld cameras at the rehearsals were HD...

 

[Arklove]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Out of curiosity, was anyone vocally disappointed with about 30% of the shots used in This Is It? i.e. the fact that the professional shots were SD and therefore looked bad quality and didn't fit the full screen. I found it odd how a HD set-up wasn't used for the professional cameras while the handheld cameras at the rehearsals were HD...

The only thing I was disappointed in with the TII release was too many interviews and too little footage of Michael doing his thing (he was spoken over while he sang DSTYGE...who speaks over that falsetto????)....But you know, that's a fan thing....General public wouldn't care much, I guess...

Other than that, it was a great release...

 

[Rhilo]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

The concern over quality was raised to the Estate, and they said they will look into it. I'm sure they also follow fan discussion here and on other forums as this is a product specifically targeting fans, based on fan feedback.

September is 4 months away. Hopefully, that is enough time for them to make revisions, if necessary. Until then I hope we do hear from them on what, if anything, has been done or they plan on doing to address concerns over quality. It would be nice if they explain the reason for not being able to secure better quality footage. If it's a valid enough reason and something beyond their control, I'm sure most fans will accept and move on. I say this, because some have said the Estate has access to the Nocturne films. If that is so, there is good reason to be frustrated. However, we do not know for sure what really is.

No product or service will gain a 100% satisfaction rate among consumers, but with so many questioning the quality those behind this project are bound to take note. I'm sure they must strive for maximum fan satisfaction. Especially, after what happened with MICHAEL.

That said, I do support this project and will buy the DVD.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

The concern over quality was raised to the Estate, and they said they will look into it. I'm sure they also follow fan discussion here and on other forums as this is a product specifically targeting fans, based on fan feedback.

September is 4 months away. Hopefully, that is enough time for them to make revisions, if necessary. Until then I hope we do hear from them on what, if anything, has been done or they plan on doing to address concerns over quality. It would be nice if they explain the reason for not being able to secure better quality footage. If it's a valid enough reason and something beyond their control, I'm sure most fans will accept and move on. I say this, because some have said the Estate has access to the Nocturne films. If that is so, there is good reason to be frustrated. However, we do not know for sure what really is.

No product or service will gain a 100% satisfaction rate among consumers, but with so many questioning the quality those behind this project are bound to take note. I'm sure they must strive for maximum fan satisfaction. Especially, after what happened with MICHAEL.

That said, I do support this project and will buy the DVD.

I agree with you...I know the Estate has said they'd address this...Actually, they said they'd 'consider addressing it over time'...Why just 'consider'? Ok, maybe I'm just being picky...But this is a valid concern....

If it's a valid enough reason, well, then we have no choice but to accept it....But as we've said, it's the Estate's job to be resourceful...They're the ones Michael put in charge, and he must have had his reasons for that...

In the meantime, we're just discussing our concerns, some disappointments...It's natural and inevitable...We can be both happy and disappointed at the same time...We're not puppets, we can have a wide array of emotions regarding releases...

 

[Graf]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

From what I've seen from other VHS to DVD transfers of 80's concerts is that that the video quality can still be very good..especially with the technology they can use today..So I'm not too concerned..They are using this version for the DVD because it's the best quality possible, right?..Or is it a matter of not owning the better footage available?

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

From what I've seen from other VHS to DVD transfers of 80's concerts is that that the video quality can still be very good..especially with the technology they can use today..So I'm not too concerned..They are using this version for the DVD because it's the best quality possible, right?..Or is it a matter of not owning the better footage available?

LOL!! Have you actually read anything on here?

 

[Graf]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

LOL!! Have you actually read anything on here?

No actually, so inform me on what the problem is.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

No actually, so inform me on what the problem is.

This concert comes from VHS tape and people say that it is not very restorable. They are not using footage that was shot on film.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

From what I've seen from other VHS to DVD transfers of 80's concerts is that that the video quality can still be very good..especially with the technology they can use today..So I'm not too concerned..They are using this version for the DVD because it's the best quality possible, right?..Or is it a matter of not owning the better footage available?

What I've bolded from your quote is the main concern. A 24 year old VHS rip onto DVD. It's very very far from the best quality possible, and fans are worried that, from what we've seen in the short clip released to the media, which is stretched and cropped, that this is what we'll be getting, which on our newer much larger screens will be pixelated, color distortion and blurry. The footage has to be taken from a master-copy in order to transfer and clean it properly. Film ideal. I don't know the ins and outs of technology, but it would be a massive step backwards rather than forwards.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Here's Wembley footage from another night - quality looks similar to what we've seen from the DVD so far:

 

[Dorian]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Here's Wembley footage from another night - quality looks similar to what we've seen from the DVD so far:

Not the MTV stream

 

[Graf]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

This concert comes from VHS tape and people say that it is not very restorable. They are not using footage that was shot on film.

What I've bolded from your quote is the main concern. A 24 year old VHS rip onto DVD. It's very very far from the best quality possible, and fans are worried that, from what we've seen in the short clip released to the media, which is stretched and cropped, that this is what we'll be getting, which on our newer much larger screens will be pixelated, color distortion and blurry. The footage has to be taken from a master-copy in order to transfer and clean it properly. Film ideal. I don't know the ins and outs of technology, but it would be a massive step backwards rather than forwards.

Ahh ok..Thanks..I'm surprised they aren't using the film footage, I mean if it exists and their making a DVD then why not use the best quality available? =X

Well I hope they get it all sorted out..Whatever is released, I am definitely going to be buying it..

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Not the MTV stream

And remember to switch the quality to 480p.

 

[ivy]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

I agree with you...I know the Estate has said they'd address this...Actually, they said they'd 'consider addressing it over time'...Why just 'consider'? Ok, maybe I'm just being picky...But this is a valid concern....

you are being picky because "consider" is a word that I choose to use in a post that I wrote because I don't like to use definitive statements or make promises until I actually get the items in my hand and know for a fact that it's coming. If you are curious about the exact word they used, it was "planning".

 

[Dorian]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

And remember to switch the quality to 480p.

Or 720p.It's restored by me, but also a better rip of than what we had.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

you are being picky because "consider" is a word that I choose to use because I don't like to use definitive statements or make promises until I actually get the items in my hand and know for a fact that it's coming. If you are curious about the exact word they used it was "planning".

Then you should have said that

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Wow, really? Are you really going to pick at things like this?

 

[lom kit]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

i myself have been waiting 10 years for a second leg bad tour show, in pro footage, and i know there are people who have waited longer. i have signed multiple petitions to get Wembley released. and for the first time ever, Sony and the estate have listened and are releasing what we have asked for. Yet you guys still find a way to complain and want more - Wembley is released, "well, i want LA." - Michael's own personal VHS: "i want blu-ray."
I for one, will get shivers, knowing i am watching a copy of a VHS that Michael Jackson himself owned, and probably watched multiple times, in his own VHS player... Would i like a blue-ray quality release of it? Sure, of course i would, there is no question. But is 10 years wait going to be ruined because of bad video quality? Hells No! (sound is more important in a live performance anyway imo)

so guys, for a change, be happy we are getting what we asked for, this does not happen often.

you do really belive that crap.

thats the same as "director approved" marketing everyone is doing right now with re-releases of catalog titles on blu-ray.
Just to give you the feeling its much effort spend and you got something special.
nothing but steam.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

you do really belive that crap.

thats the same as "director approved" marketing everyone is doing right now with re-releases of catalog titles on blu-ray.
Just to give you the feeling its much effort spend and you got something special.
nothing but steam.

Yeah agree. It might just be trick to get people more attracted to it. Or because of that very poor quality they are saying that to kinda tint it down, u know ''it was from Michael's private collection''.

 

[lom kit]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Yeah agree. It might just me trick to get people more attracted to it. Or because of that very poor quality they are saying that to kinda tint it down, u know ''it was from Michael's private collection''.

hahaha, like "you wear michael jackson's own sweaty shirt". it makes you feel like you are michael.
or for the ladies, it's like michael is hugging you.

singing:
I'm dreaming of Michael's t-shirt and watching the wemley dvdddddd"
Pervert, i know.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

hahaha, like "you wear michael jackson's own sweaty shirt". it makes you feel like you are michael.
or for the ladies, it's like michael is hugging you.

Pervert, i know.

:rofl:

:naughty:

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

hahaha, like "you wear michael jackson's own sweaty shirt". it makes you feel like you are michael.
or for the ladies, it's like michael is hugging you.

singing:
I'm dreaming of Michael's t-shirt and watching the wemley dvdddddd"
Pervert, i know.

Haha :lol:

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Bad Tour DVD (Disscussion Thread)

Hey guys I haven't been here for a couple of days...just wanted to drop by and catch up on the thread.....and oh yeah...DID I SAY HOW EXCITED I AM FOR THIS DVD RELEASE!!! :lmao:.... ......SOOOO excited.....