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Attorney: Doctor found Jackson with pulse

I think Michael had a situation whereby when he danced or rehearsed too much, he would begin getting complications and either collapse or begin having pains.

At such times, he needed the heart to be stabilised by support systems because his heart response may have suddenly been triggered to become irregular.

This may also be because he began dancing as a child. If you think of it, each time he dances, it's like a 3 hour running marathon.

And even marathon runners at times experience such unexpected heart problems.

That's why Michael must have wanted a doctor to watch over him, and knowing his past condition, this was a wise move on his part as he knew his problems of sudden unexpected collapse or pains.

The failure this time was to get the right support in place and in time. I just wish the doctor had done a bit more extensive checking of Michael's health around tours, which is what he was hired to do. To be the tour doctor
 
I saw this on TMZ and was looking at the comments that followed. Someone stated that with a pulse, there shouldn't have been any CPR done. Does anyone know this? I am pretty sure it is true; not sure about if the pulse is extremely weak or under no circumstance as long as there is a pulse. If so then I wonder if the concentration should maybe have been on mouth to mouth resuscitation.
 
Jesus. (There should be a lot of swearing right here, but I decided to spare you guys what I really wanted to say.) Oh my God. So if the _____ would have performed CPR correctly (I read somewhere he didn't do mouth-to-mouth?), would Michael have been saved? Oh Jesus, I can't think of this. It better not be true. Oh God.
 
I feel that regardless of what kind of resusitation he was supposed to do, 911 should have been called pronto to give him backup...not almost an hour later...if that's true. Time was precious. A faint pulse was better than none like we originally thought. It meant MJ's heart was at least still trying to beat. The lack of oxygen may have been what actually stopped his heart instead of the other way around. The longer he wan't getting adequate ventilation, it was getting worse for him.
 
Oh, I agree about the 911. Let's hope that that was indeed done immediately. Has it been officially told what span between the 911 call and initially finding him?

It would be so unfair if he at least had a fighting chance for him to not have gotten it. He wanted to live and he thought that this was his time once again. The time that Akon had always mentioned that Michael patiently waited for and knew when to act.
 
FIRST, if MJ had a pulse. He SHOULD not do CPR on him.

SECOND, if he did do CPR on him, heSHOULD do it on the floor, NOT on the bed.

THIRD, he should call the ambulance before he perform CPR on Mike.

This doctor must be an idiot if he didn't know the above points.
This doctor killed Michael. If he has no guilt, why he hired a lawyer? Why disappear?
 
rsw22 said:
Knowing Michael's health history is important, especially as fans, so as to know what happened.

In 1980, Michael collapsed on stage, he was taken to hospital and the Triumph tour was cancelled

In 1990 while dancing alone at his flat in LA, Michael collapsed. He recovered briefly, crawled to the phone and called his doctor who in turn immediately called the ambulance. Michael was taken to hospital.

In 1995, while rehearsing for a show, Michael collapsed. He was rushed to hospital immediately.

In 1999, while dancing, Michael collapsed. He was rushed to a private clinic.

In 2009, after 3 hours of dancing, Michael complained he wasn't feeling well. He told Frank who claims a doctor was sent over.
That's possibly why Doctor Murray walked in to watch over Michael and found he had a weak pulse.

The doctor began CPR and then also called the ambulance.

Here is the problem. In this last incident, there seems to have been a delay in getting him from home to hospital. He shouldn't have been left alone to sleep when compalining of feeling unwell if the doctor had known his past medical history.

The problem is this was a new doctor who had not dealt with Michael extensively in the past and did not know how to respond effectively when Michael collapses.

The 1980 and 1995 incident happened in public so the immediate reaction is to call an ambulance.

The 1990 happened when Michael was alone but the doctor was not present so the immediate response was to call the ambulance.

In 2009, the doctor seemed to have taken some of the responsibility on himself when Michael had a weak pulse.

But had he known, he would have alerted security and done CPR as MJ was speeded off to hospital which was 8 minutes away, or alerted someone to call the ambulance while starting CPR.

That would have given Michael time to be supported by machines and recover.

The situation seems to be a combination of several things
- A doctor who didn't know Michael's medical history very well.
- Leaving Michael alone after he complained of not feeling very well after rehearsals.
- probable slight delay in requesting a dispatch of the ambulance
Click to expand...

He also delayed his concert in August 1993. And was hospitalized during the trial (it was said to be a back pain). And we shouldnt forget the accident in 1984 when his hair got fire. Even his public medical history doesnt look really good so we can only imagine what was behind the scenes through the years. And he must have had some accidents as a child already?
 
classic said:
Oh, I agree about the 911. Let's hope that that was indeed done immediately. Has it been officially told what span between the 911 call and initially finding him?

It would be so unfair if he at least had a fighting chance for him to not have gotten it. He wanted to live and he thought that this was his time once again. The time that Akon had always mentioned that Michael patiently waited for and knew when to act.
Click to expand...


Unfair to the highest degree. :( Had MJ been ill or something it still would have hurt but so suddenly like this...no goodbye or anything. ugh! In a way, I feel like this was almost destined to happen. For almost a year now idiots have been trying to kill Michael off with bs diseases and whatnot almost weekly. And now he's actually gone. Maybe they finally put out enuf negative energy to make it happen. :angry:
 
I dont understand now if he had the pulse why did he CPR'd him!?! Was the doctor really that stupid? CPR is done to make the heart working again, it can be just getting worse if he didnt need it.
 
Oh God. I hope that someone was misquoted hear or something he knows as a doctor that we don't.

He would have fought--for himself, for his children, for his mother, for hisTII team, for his fans! He would have fought like He*l if given the help. He was hanging on; he just needed the help.
 
Yeah I just read that on Fox News which I know is tabloish but nonetheless I read it there.
 
rsw22 said:
Knowing Michael's health history is important, especially as fans, so as to know what happened.

In 1980, Michael collapsed on stage, he was taken to hospital and the Triumph tour was cancelled

In 1990 while dancing alone at his flat in LA, Michael collapsed. He recovered briefly, crawled to the phone and called his doctor who in turn immediately called the ambulance. Michael was taken to hospital.

In 1995, while rehearsing for a show, Michael collapsed. He was rushed to hospital immediately.

In 1999, while dancing, Michael collapsed. He was rushed to a private clinic.

In 2009, after 3 hours of dancing, Michael complained he wasn't feeling well. He told Frank who claims a doctor was sent over.
That's possibly why Doctor Murray walked in to watch over Michael and found he had a weak pulse.

The doctor began CPR and then also called the ambulance.

Here is the problem. In this last incident, there seems to have been a delay in getting him from home to hospital. He shouldn't have been left alone to sleep when compalining of feeling unwell if the doctor had known his past medical history.

The problem is this was a new doctor who had not dealt with Michael extensively in the past and did not know how to respond effectively when Michael collapses.

The 1980 and 1995 incident happened in public so the immediate reaction is to call an ambulance.

The 1990 happened when Michael was alone but the doctor was not present so the immediate response was to call the ambulance.

In 2009, the doctor seemed to have taken some of the responsibility on himself when Michael had a weak pulse.

But had he known, he would have alerted security and done CPR as MJ was speeded off to hospital which was 8 minutes away, or alerted someone to call the ambulance while starting CPR.

That would have given Michael time to be supported by machines and recover.

The situation seems to be a combination of several things
- A doctor who didn't know Michael's medical history very well.
- Leaving Michael alone after he complained of not feeling very well after rehearsals.
- probable slight delay in requesting a dispatch of the ambulance
Click to expand...

Now I didn't think of that! WHYYYYYYYYY didn't this fool grab michael and hop in his car while somebody drove to the hospital. OH MY GOD! This is unreal! UNREAL:bugeyed

Michael should be here.

How ever this doc is LYING the statement from LAPD said that the doc said that he was with michael when HE COLLAPSED. Now which is it?? He collasped or you FOUND him? STOP LYING! UGHHHH! :bugeyed

So then you found him with a weak pulse and you do cpr on a BED and DON"T call 911 first. :bugeyed
 
ok could it be that he was not breathing but had a pulse? any medical brainiacs here?

y would u give cpr to someoen who had a pulse? just do breaths....im so confused

ok if the autopsy didn't find needle marks, then it could be possible mj died naturally? what would cause a full cardiac arrest?
 
Oh dear. In our training in CPR we are taught to administer chest compressions/breaths while calling for help. 10 seconds without CPR is almost failure of the CPR. As a matter of fact several of you on other threads have mentioned that doing it properly etc could have made a difference. Similary if the dr. left Mj to call 911 then forget about it. His job is to call for help while administering the CPR. He can't leave to call or get the AED.

Secondly, he did say he put one hand behind MJ's back and did chest compressions with the other hand. Seeing how thin MJ is I do believe this is quite workable especially if he's got the strength.

Thirdly, people who eventually go in to cardiac arrest, may have a slight pulse which very well may disappear during the administering of CPR. It is not uncommon, which is why you keep checking pulse after giving breaths.

Fourthly, I have watched some of you fans go around on different threads and spread so much speculation that you've caused yourselves and others to be so confused. Some of you took news from TMZ of all places, where conveniently the family member is anonymous, and spread that as facts (the demerol injection).
Then you promptly being to malign the dr by saying why would he give a cardiac patient demerol.

Whoever said MJ was a cardiac patient or got demerol?

It's already so confusing out there can't we be a little bit prudent in our thoughts
 
Soso Deaf said:
ok could it be that he was not breathing but had a pulse? any medical brainiacs here?

y would u give cpr to someoen who had a pulse? just do breaths....im so confused

ok if the autopsy didn't find needle marks, then it could be possible mj died naturally? what would cause a full cardiac arrest?
Click to expand...

Well it does sound a bit weird... ow big of a coincidence does it have to be for him to walk in exactly the minute he stops breathing? The heart can't go on beating for long if the person is not breathing so...

And you;re right, you don't do cpr to someone whose heart is beating but I'm guessing it stopped at some point because without proper oxigenation it can't really be sustained. And also it very much depends on the cause of it all. If indeed it was some sort of drug, nothing he could have done outside the hospital setting would have really helped.

I'm not sure I buy the one hand cpr though, I really don't think that's possible unless we're talking about a little child...


"Los Angeles County medical examiners completed their autopsy Friday and said Jackson had taken prescription medication. "

^ that's from the article and isn't it false? I've heard no such thing.:doh:
 
it's not false, they did say that. my only idea of that is that his stomach contents...they weren't fully digested and they found capsules or something to prove he was on meds.

which meds they don't know b/c again, the tox report hasn't come in yet.

the lapd also said he was heavily addicted to oxy's and i don't know they made that assertion unless they found it at the home. and for all we know, he was stockingup on it here for london. he was gonna be gonefor 8 months
 
rsw22 said:
I think Michael had a situation whereby when he danced or rehearsed too much, he would begin getting complications and either collapse or begin having pains.

At such times, he needed the heart to be stabilised by support systems because his heart response may have suddenly been triggered to become irregular.

This may also be because he began dancing as a child. If you think of it, each time he dances, it's like a 3 hour running marathon.

And even marathon runners at times experience such unexpected heart problems.

That's why Michael must have wanted a doctor to watch over him, and knowing his past condition, this was a wise move on his part as he knew his problems of sudden unexpected collapse or pains.

The failure this time was to get the right support in place and in time. I just wish the doctor had done a bit more extensive checking of Michael's health around tours, which is what he was hired to do. To be the tour doctor
Click to expand...
This maybe the case. It's called INFLAMMATION. You get it from over exercising. This is why sometime athletes die sudden or young. their body doesn't have time to recouperate (sp?) properly and it takes a toll on you. you shouldn't exercise for more than an hour at one time..and when I heard he was to 3 to 6 I was like. Amazed but like WOW. Cuz I knew about imflammation and reading books on it. Its a silent killer.
 
Soso Deaf said:
it's not false, they did say that. my only idea of that is that his stomach contents...they weren't fully digested and they found capsules or something to prove he was on meds.

which meds they don't know b/c again, the tox report hasn't come in yet.

the lapd also said he was heavily addicted to oxy's and i don't know they made that assertion unless they found it at the home. and for all we know, he was stockingup on it here for london. he was gonna be gonefor 8 months
Click to expand...
when did they say this?? where the article. and how did they KNOW he was addicted to it and not just using it. Only the tox report would prove that. How would lapd know:smilerolleyes:
 
Lisab when did he day he put his hand on michael back and chest to do the compression? now I really missed that one? Also would it have been able to put michael in a car and speed him over to the hospital while diding cpr so if that didn't work you could use that machine to shock michael heart?
 
No he wouldn't be able to drive him to the hospital and perform CPR. No way. He had to do CPR until help arrives; no moving around, no interruptions. Just stay his ground, do it and scream for help.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chernoff said any drugs the doctor gave Jackson were prescribed in response to a specific complaint from the entertainer.
"Dr. Murray has never prescribed nor administered Demerol to Michael Jackson," Chernoff said. "Not ever. Not that day. ... Not Oxycontin (either) for that matter."
Paramedics were called to the mansion while the doctor was performing CPR, according to a recording of the 911 call.
Because Jackson was so frail, Murray "administered with his hand behind his back to provide the necessary support," Chernoff said. Some have speculated the doctor botched the CPR.
"He's a trained doctor," Chernoff said. "He knows how to administer CPR."

Medics spent three-quarters of an hour trying to revive Jackson. He was pronounced dead later at UCLA Medical Center.
Murray was interviewed by investigators for three hours Saturday. His spokeswoman called Murray "a witness to this tragedy," not a suspect in the death, and police described the doctor as cooperative. The attorney said Murray will wait to speak publicly until after the police and forensics investigation is complete.

The above is an excerpt.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_michael_jackson
 
If his pulse was too slow, chest compressions should be done. Or as others have said, he might have lost his pulse later. A cardiac arrest can sometimes be secondary to a respiratory arrest due to lack of oxygen to the heart.

CPR on an adult should be done with 2 hands. CPR with one hand on a male adult wouldn't be effective, especially if he did it on a bed. That right there screams negligence.
 
he said he found Michael with pulse
and then what?
i want to know why Michael was not unconscious and why he wasn't breathing
what cause him to be like that
he still didn't tell "what happened?"

i'm not here to accuse he is guilty
just want this man to tell us what happened at that time cause he's the only witness there
there're some doubts in my mind that needed to clear up
i WANT Michael rest in peace but to me, sometimes "let it go, don’t talk about those things" is kind of escape
we can choose to escape on certain of things, but not on Michael’s death, we should fight for Michael
cause it’s nothing wrong to know the truth, it can help Michael truly rest in peace

I can’t stop thinking “why things turn out to be like this?”
we fans are supposed to meet Michael, to celebrate his shows in London
we and Michael are supposed to meet each other, aren't we?
 
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He said he found MJ with pulse! When the person called 911 said he had no pulse and he is not breathing...and not responding to CPR! It means that he waited until he lost his pulse right? After he tried the CPR right? And when he saw "he is not respondig to anything" he called 911! Tell me if I am wrong! Now I can't think and I may be wrong!
 
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