Appeal denied / AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

[ivy]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

@bubs

While I was reading the document I thought this was the best arguments in a court document that I have read. It totally made sense.

For example I left school with substantial amounts of student loan and this logic means I shouldn't be hired because my student loans mean that I'm a danger and I can harm people.

For example my BF's dentist has recently went through a divorce, had to give house and alimony to his wife and now openly complaining about debt and needing money. According to this logic it means that he will do whatever his patients want - including pumping them with illegal drugs - for money.

and the negligent hiring is way too indirect too

so the theory is that you add a person that had a painkiller addiction 16 years ago and a doctor that has debt but no medical wrong conduct together and you need to foresee that doctor will be overdosing the person on anesthesia and killing him in a homicide/manslaughter manner. even if you can make the logical connection of a "past drug addict" + "doctor in debt"= a doctor feelgood . how do you go from painkillers to anesthesia?

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

40 BILLION DOLLARS!

What the heck is wrong with these people!

You know what, let me get out of this section before I say something that may get me banned.

Please excuse me.

LOL...:clap: calm down girl.. this family has been shady from the beginning

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

@bubs

While I was reading the document I thought this was the best arguments in a court document that I have read. It totally made sense.

For example I left school with substantial amounts of student loan and this logic means I shouldn't be hired because my student loans mean that I'm a danger and I can harm people.

For example my BF's dentist has recently went through a divorce, had to give house and alimony to his wife and now openly complaining about debt and needing money. According to this logic it means that he will do whatever his patients want - including pumping them with illegal drugs - for money.

and the negligent hiring is way too indirect too

so the theory is that you add a person that had a painkiller addiction 16 years ago and a doctor that has debt but no medical wrong conduct together and you need to foresee that doctor will be overdosing the person on anesthesia and killing him in a homicide/manslaughter manner. even if you can make the logical connection of a "past drug addict" + "doctor in debt"= a doctor feelgood . how do you go from painkillers to anesthesia?

good analogy Ivy!

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

@bubs

While I was reading the document I thought this was the best arguments in a court document that I have read. It totally made sense.

For example I left school with substantial amounts of student loan and this logic means I shouldn't be hired because my student loans mean that I'm a danger and I can harm people.

For example my BF's dentist has recently went through a divorce, had to give house and alimony to his wife and now openly complaining about debt and needing money. According to this logic it means that he will do whatever his patients want - including pumping them with illegal drugs - for money.

and the negligent hiring is way too indirect too

so the theory is that you add a person that had a painkiller addiction 16 years ago and a doctor that has debt but no medical wrong conduct together and you need to foresee that doctor will be overdosing the person on anesthesia and killing him in a homicide/manslaughter manner. even if you can make the logical connection of a "past drug addict" + "doctor in debt"= a doctor feelgood . how do you go from painkillers to anesthesia?

I too thought that AEG has strong case with this appeal. Judge will open whole lot of can of worms if she allows Jackson case to go on trial as it is now. I can only imagine the future cases if this case goes ahead and Katherine wins!!!!
No company can hire a new people any more as everybody has some debt, and it is a risk hiring new people with debts in case they do something to put company in position to get sued for not foreseeing the thread they pose!

If I twist this case a little bit more, shouldn't Katherine have sued Michael, as Michael didn't check CM's financial debts, or how many clinics he had to close to be his doc @London?

How on earth they come up these foreseeable things, I never understand that!

Edited to add: I came up with this in twitter world and thought its great
"If debt measures a person's moral character then every single Jackson needs to be locked up before they harm others."

I so agree with it.

 

[Lena Lucy]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

I hope the Jacksons get NOTHING!!!!!!!!!

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

I hope they don't either.. I think Katherine has a lot of nerve blaming AEG for not watching over her son when she didn't either. Being his mother she had to know how nervous MJ was doing these shows and she had to know about his issues with not sleeping and the fact that she did nothing but are willing to blame AEG is insane. Even Kenny Ortega thought MJ needed help, why didn't Katherine see it?

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

@jaydom7

you love to write the same thing over and over again but the answer is simple. It's the contracts between AEG and Michael and AEG and Murray that bring issues of responsibility and liability on the table.

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

^^Ivy, when I bring in matter of why Katherine didn't act herself when it is so easy to put on blame on someone AFTERWARDS, why they didn't do this and that for Michael. I'm hoping that have telepathic connection to AEG lawyers;-), and they can read my mind and use those arguments in trial against Katherine and her case. I cannot see why wouldn't they use it against Katherine, like if she know Michael was full blown drug addict, why didn't she see it fit to warn AEG so they could have acted accordingly?

I know Katherine and her inactions are not in trial here, but in my honest opinion, if someone should be on trial, it should be Katherine. She has long enough abused her position as Michael's mother.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

^^Ivy, when I bring in matter of why Katherine didn't act herself when it is so easy to put on blame on someone AFTERWARDS, why they didn't do this and that for Michael. I'm hoping that have telepathic connection to AEG lawyers;-), and they can read my mind and use those arguments in trial against Katherine and her case. I cannot see why wouldn't they use it against Katherine, like if she know Michael was full blown drug addict, why didn't she see it fit to warn AEG so they could have acted accordingly?

I know Katherine and her inactions are not in trial here, but in my honest opinion, if someone should be on trial, it should be Katherine. She has long enough abused her position as Michael's mother.

I totally agree Bubs.. we know who the case is about but the issue is Katherine is bringing it against AEG when she shouldn't be. Can she sue herself? like you've stated Bubs if she and her family thought MJ was a drug addict who could not do these shows then why didn't they stop it? they knew MJ was about to do 50 shows. They knew it and the world knew it. If they felt he was so drugged out or had the potential to be drugged up then Katherine should have warned AEG that MJ might be a mess and might turn to drugs etc.. She didn't do anything like that. Why not?

 

[Pimboli]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

She didn't do anything like that. Why not?

Jermaine probably objected - it would jeopardize his 50 imaginary Jackson 5 reunion shows... :lol:

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

Thanks ivy for posting teh appeal docs.

AEG states that Jacksons did not present any counter evidence to AEG's claims. Jacksons showed
- an extensive credit and judicial records would show that Murray was in debt
- Murray was not board certified
- this part is redacted but it's apparent that they are talking about Gongaware being aware of Michael's 1993 painkiller addiction
- Gongaware had a general understanding that physicians inappropriately prescribe drugs to musicians.

Why were there some redacted parts in the document? I don't think it's gongaware being aware of 93 addiction - the whole world knew about the 93 addiction as there was liz taylor flying off to whereever, and mj giving a tv statement, and it's mentioned in the rest of the document unredacted. I imagine it's gongaware's specific knowledge on tour with a doctor, but i don't know if it's the 2nd leg dangerous tour painkiller use or the suspected prop use on the history tour.

such a high amount could be tactic to scare AEG into a settlement but how do you settle a $40 Billion claim? I always thought we were looking to a $102 Million in damages (restitution number) and believed a $20-$30 Million settlement (less than half) as a possibility. but what's the amount to settle a $40 billion claim?

I think it's just one of these ridiculous amounts lawyers tend to put in civil claims. I remember the arvizos were going for 100s of $millions in their jc penny lawsuit and settled for over $100K. It's certainly not an indication of the strength of their case - they had 5 counts and now it's down to 1 and they seem mightly relieved that they've still got that - don't see any appealing and complaining about those other counts being tossed. I always remember an interview oxman did to the daily mail end of 2011 where he was talking about the aeg case and he said they were looking for about a $1billion, and that ppb wd be the youngest plaintiffs in history to have such a large lawsuit, so they always planned big, but $40bn?? It just makes the whole lawsuit even more ridiculous - aeg know they have a good case.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

^^

It could be a reference to Neil Ratner and apparently Court of Appeals doesn't want it redacted. I would expect Gongaware to be aware of Ratner - but not necessarily his treatment. Heck even we are aware of Ratner.

 

[Daryll748]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

Jermaine probably objected - it would jeopardize his 50 imaginary Jackson 5 reunion shows... :lol:

:hysterical: :lol: :hysterical:

Well, :hi:for AEG... They really did their HOMEWORK here and got some REAL though points... that it brought a of joy to my eye... The ONLY thing, I HOPE for is that Judge is as SMART as they are and demands a 'dismissal' of this whole charade...
The ONLY thing, that should be left standing is... The FALL of the 'leech' family aka " KJ & Cubs" :tease:

I KNOW, this trial is about 'negligence' and is 'focused' on contracts but I don't understand WHY anyone can make such a RIDICULOUS claim ONLY to for the sake of the mighty $$$ :blink:

Indeed, how do you FORESEE that a Doctor turns 'evil'? Who on earth checks out his family Doctor for 'malpractices' ? I mean, if you can't TRUST Docs any more? Where does it end, hey? Personal lives should NOT affect the quality of your work, okay :smilerolleyes:

It's like AEG needed to have a 6th sense to 'spot' if the Doctor would 'harm' their 'artist' or not... Makes no sense at all... :scratch:

oh, 40 WHAT? :blink: That's INSANE :doh:

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

AEG states there's no direct connection between Michael's 2009 anesthesia overdose and Murray's debt and Michael's past painkiller addiction.

i find it ironic how AEG are changing their opinion to suit their claims. before it was mj was a raving druggie for the last 20 years and now its all about PAST addiction in 93 on painkillers which is irrlevent to the case as painkillers had nothing to do with mjs death.

I don't think aeg are changing their opinion. They'll just be saying that up to 25 june, all they knew about mj was that he had probs in 93 going to drug rehab. Whereas in the trial they'll be able to use all the research into mj's drug use, ably assisted by the jacksons' tales of drug addiction since god knows when, to paint the picture of mj as a drug addict on the sly who wd self-destruct at any moment. That's just how i read it anyway.

I dont hold out much help for the appeal.the courts never seem to have the balls to go with them regardless of the argument

Neither do i unfortunately. I remember teh daniel kapon case v mj, where some seriously disturbed man who cd show no proof of ever meeting mj accused mj of kidnap, torture, and molestation when a child, forced him to have plastic surgery - all in a dungeon underneath hayvernurst and neverland, and mj laughing an evil laugh. He's thefather of prince and paris, his mum married mj and he composed most of 'thriller' and 'bad' (as a toddler). The civil judge threw out that he was the composer of thriller, but kept in alot of the other counts. The trial went ahead and only collapsed because kapon was a no-show at court. My impression is that Calif civil courts don't require a particularly high level of credibility in their cases.

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

Indeed, how do you FORESEE that a Doctor turns 'evil'? Who on earth checks out his family Doctor for 'malpractices' ? I mean, if you can't TRUST Docs any more? Where does it end, hey? Personal lives should NOT affect the quality of your work, okay :smilerolleyes:

It's like AEG needed to have a 6th sense to 'spot' if the Doctor would 'harm' their 'artist' or not... Makes no sense at all... :scratch:

Before 06/25/2009 I didn't even know such a thing existed that checking out your doctor.
I assume in Europe it is not standard thing to do or is it?
At least I have never ever thought that there is crooked doctors out there and I should check their background or basically check anything of doctors, nor do I even know where to look for info. To me doctors are nearly as immortals as bank managers You just trust them blindly.

Which bring me back to Jackson's saying that doctor in debt poses a risk to do something stupid. I would think the medical professionals aren't too happy to hear if judge allows that claim to go ahead. It cast the whole medical profession in very bad light.

Jermaine probably objected - it would jeopardize his 50 imaginary Jackson 5 reunion shows... :lol:

In case something happens and Katherine wins the case, any money awarded to them should be a monopoly money. They can play to be pretend millionaires all they like.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

I don't think aeg are changing their opinion. They'll just be saying that up to 25 june, all they knew about mj was that he had probs in 93 going to drug rehab. Whereas in the trial they'll be able to use all the research into mj's drug use, ably assisted by the jacksons' tales of drug addiction since god knows when, to paint the picture of mj as a drug addict on the sly who wd self-destruct at any moment. That's just how i read it anyway.

that's what I think too. when I read it felt like the most they were able to establish that Gongaware knew 1993 painkiller addiction (who didn't), knew about Neil Ratner as a tour doctor and have general knowledge that "musicians can do drugs". I don't think they were able to establish that anyone knew sleep issues or use of Propofol/anesthesia.

So I'm expecting them to argue "we didn't know so we didn't see any warning flags" and then also based on everything they learned about Michael's past claim that Michael shares responsibility and nothing would stop him.

Before 06/25/2009 I didn't even know such a thing existed that checking out your doctor.
I assume in Europe it is not standard thing to do or is it?
At least I have never ever thought that there is crooked doctors out there and I should check their background or basically check anything of doctors, nor do I even know where to look for info. To me doctors are nearly as immortals as bank managers You just trust them blindly.

well in US every state has a medical board and their webpages allows you to check for the doctors to see their licenses, certifications and any discipline actions. I have never used it personally. I don't think an average person checks it either.

 

[marc_vivien]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

I guess that the family checks associates' background, like Mann, Wiesner, etc.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

I guess that the family checks associates' background, like Mann, Wiesner, etc.

of course they don't

 

[MIST]

If a doctor has debts and get a job to take care of one patient and earn 150.000$/month then I thought the patient would be very safe-if the doctor or someone close to him/her isn´t mentioned in the patients will.

It´s obvious that Murray didn´t care about Michael ,but he cares about money.
I find it very strange that he didn´t do everything to keep the patient alive and healthy.
The recording Murray made of Michael isn´t worth something when the patient died.
How can anyone on this earth understand what Murray would do- and not do(monitored his patient who he gave anesthesia)

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

True.. that recording was going to be used to blackmail Michael. That's what I suspect, just like judge Pastor said. Murray didn't want MJ dead because then he wouldn't get his $150,000 per month and he wouldn't be able to blackmail him. If anything hat recording sunk Murray further because he knew firsthand what his 'treatments' were doing to MJ. There is no way he could play dumb.

 

[etoile 37]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

$40 billion is an unbelievable number. MJ Estate averages $150 Million in gross revenues a year if we assumed Michael lived to be 90 years old (40 more years) that would bring his gross income to $6 billion. So I'm wondering on what basis Katherine's experts have came up with that number.

$5 billion x 8 cubs = $40 billion

Makes sense...

 

[jaydom7]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

$5 billion x 8 cubs = $40 billion

Makes sense...

LOL...:rollin:

 

[Daryll748]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

well in US every state has a medical board and their webpages allows you to check for the doctors to see their licenses, certifications and any discipline actions. I have never used it personally. I don't think an average person checks it either.

Well, I NEVER heard of it here in Belgium though... Then again, everything 'rolls' here on 'square' tires...:cheeky:
It's 'haunting' to say but it was only after June 25 that I started to lose trust in my own family Doctor and I went to another one... Only to find out, the family Doctor was a quack :beee:

$5 billion x 8 cubs = $40 billion

Makes sense...

:lol: indeed

Easy $$$ hey that they are NOT entitled too :angry:

It's like my mum would sue my ex- employer 'cause our Family Doctor is a quack? :scratch:

I'm more and more 'convinced' that this civil suit is like a 'black mail' game :smilerolleyes: that AEG is 'dragged' into...

 

[loveforever]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

$5 billion x 8 cubs = $40 billion

Makes sense...

Lol. the cubs also have cubs, the cubs' cubs' cubs.... I heard there were a hundred people in that family. It's like they do nothing in life but pregnant different women, or same woman in Randy and Jermaine's case.

 

[MJnVA]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

What does one billion look like???

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

Good read.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

What does one billion look like???

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

Good read.

Right good question. The family has to make sure that after the lawyers take their share & they recoup the amount paid to all the experts, there will be enough money remaining for each child to get a few billion. Hence the large amount of the shakedown money.

 

[8701girl]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

$5 billion x 8 cubs = $40 billion

Makes sense...

Oh yeh total sense :lol:

 

[Aquarius]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

$40 billion. How did Michael deal with his family?

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

$40 billion. How did Michael deal with his family?

From a distance.

 

[marebear]

Re: AEG Live goes to Court of Appeal to dismiss remaining negligent hiring claim

Exactly. Far, far away as possible. I don't blame Michael at all.