Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date April 2, 2013

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

i presume the plantifs would file the documentes that support their case when filing the case at the begining or does it happen later?

I would "think" that if you had some sort of VIABLE proof, you would include it when you initially file your lawsuit.

Now I'm not saying that you would include ALL of your proof, but in my opinion, you would offer proof to conincide with any points you are trying to make and if your proof comes in the form of a person's statement, then you would add said statement in the form of a "Declaration" to your lawsuit filing.

A sworn Declaration Taken UNDER OATH would be a nice way to verify some of those "hearsay" stories, without a Declaration, in my opinion, such statements are nothing more than NAMELESS rumors and/or hearsay.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

i presume the plantifs would file the documentes that support their case when filing the case at the begining or does it happen later?

I would "think" that if you had some sort of VIABLE proof, you would include it when you initially file your lawsuit.

Now I'm not saying that you would include ALL of your proof, but in my opinion, you would offer proof to conincide with any points you are trying to make and if your proof comes in the form of a person's statement, then you would add said statement in the form of a "Declaration" to your lawsuit filing.

A sworn Declaration Taken UNDER OATH would be a nice way to verify some of those "hearsay" stories, without a Declaration, in my opinion, such statements are nothing more than NAMELESS rumors and/or hearsay.

this is the "complaint" stage sure some supporting documents, affidavits can be added but it wouldn't be all the evidence. according to AEG's response KJ's lawyers didn't include a copy of AEG-MJ contract or gave any details about the statements they claim to be made by AEG.

I checked KJ's original complaint I can't see any reference to any documents attached. AEG response includes Executor's appointment document (Ex. C), AEG - Michael contract (Ex.A), AEG - Murray contract draft (Ex.B) and a reference to Murray arrest order.

basic information about the steps will be

One side files a complaint , stating claims and supporting facts
Court serves the complaint to the other side
They respond to the complaint and claims made either by accepting or denying them, can ask for motion to dismiss

later there will be discovery, deposition, subpoenas etc
and then the trial

 

[Sophielo]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I'm confused. The title of this thread is in regards to Katherine's lawsuit of AEG. Katherinie is suing AEG b/c she thinks they are involved in MJ's death, not just Conrad Murray. If this thread is only to discuss Murray's involvement in the death, then you should change the title.

The lawsuit is because Katherine Jackson feels AEG failed in their duty of care for Michael which is fine to discuss here. It does not state that AEG deliberatly kept Mike drugged up and controlled, making him sign up to 50 concerts without his knowledge. That belongs in conspiracy.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I checked KJ's original complaint I can't see any reference to any documents attached.

Sounds just like the ALL GOOD ENTERTAINMENT filing, i.e. making a bunch of claims but failing to attach any "back-up" documents, also know as EXHIBITS.

Very interesting, in my opinion. Very interesting indeed.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Sounds just like the ALL GOOD ENTERTAINMENT filing, i.e. making a bunch of claims but failing to attach any "back-up" documents, also know as EXHIBITS.

Very interesting, in my opinion. Very interesting indeed.

sounds like it. it doesnt help when the lawsuit itself sounds like something made up from reading the national enquirer and every other tabloid site going.just gives the impression the family were clueless about what was going on in mjs life and are grabbing at anything in order to make some $

 

[Autumn II]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

FYI, here is the text of Katherine's complaint, if anyone wants to review it.

@font-face { font-family: "Cambria"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }a:link, span.MsoHyperlink { color: blue; text-decoration: underline; }a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { color: purple; text-decoration: underline; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } http://www.psandb.com/articles/mj-complaint.pdf


A complaint is not necessarily factual, but is an assertion of what will be attempted to be proven in court. AEG has responded by requesting that the complaint be dismissed (the topic of this thread.)



The complaint to which AEG has responded reads, the following: (excerpts) see the PDF (at the link) for Katherine's entire complaint.



#23. By virtue of the AEG-JACKSON AGREEMENT, AEG came to control much of Jackson's life. The home Jackson lived in was provided by AEG; his finances were dependent on AEG; and his assets stood security if he failed to perform.


Below is, in part, the complaint's assertions about Murray's role. (see PDF for entire complaint.)



"At the June 18, 2009 meeting, AEG demanded Michael Jackson stop seeing Dr. Arnold Klein and stop taking the drugs Klein gave to him. AEG said Klein's drugs made him sleepy and prevented him from rehearsing. AEG demanded Michael Jackson take only the medications given him by Murray."


And again, this is only FYI, if anyone wants to review Katherine's complaint with regard to AEG's response.

 

[Asedora]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

"At the June 18, 2009 meeting, AEG demanded Michael Jackson stop seeing Dr. Arnold Klein and stop taking the drugs Klein gave to him. AEG said Klein's drugs made him sleepy and prevented him from rehearsing. AEG demanded Michael Jackson take only the medications given him by Murray."

.

Here we go again. AEG were monitoring MJ health so they KNEW every little detail. They MUST, because it was a part of the business and they were responsible for everything what happened with Michael. So Murray was under AEG control and they wanted only Murray to monitor Michael. Katherine is very right here. They have to answer why Michael is not alive.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

"At the June 18, 2009 meeting, AEG demanded Michael Jackson stop seeing Dr. Arnold Klein and stop taking the drugs Klein gave to him. AEG said Klein's drugs made him sleepy and prevented him from rehearsing. AEG demanded Michael Jackson take only the medications given him by Murray."

AEG demanded....

That's a pretty blanket statement in my opinion. I mean, WHOM from AEG made those demands. AEG is NOT a person. LOL!

Secondly, who is going to attest to what happened in that meeting? Some of us have heard this before, but in a court of law, they will need to say [fill in the blank] attended the meeting and can attest, UNDER OATH, what took place.

It's clear that nobody from the Jackson family was in that meeting, so where did that story come from, i.e. THE DEMANDS.

This part of the lawsuit reminds me of what happens when you hear a story over and over again, and how that story may start off valid, but once it is re-told, it ends up like that above, with no type of VALID back-up as to who said what.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

that doesnt make sense anyway. klien is a dermo who was giving mj botox etc. is murray and expert in doing cosmetic procedures aswell as everything else now. the lawsuits implying mj was going there to get drugged up and nothing more.imo that whole claim was made up based on mj being seen going to kliens and was thrown in for xtra juice as they are trying to claim he should stop seeing one dr whos doing procedures on him and use another thats gonna give him benzos something thats far worse than what ever klien was using

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

So Murray was under AEG control and they wanted only Murray to monitor Michael.

If Murray was UNDER AEG's control, then why didn't they pay him?

Seems to me if Murray were under their control, and he was doing what they asked him to do, then they would have been very happy to pay him for his services, i.e. "job well done Murray, here's your money, keep up the good work."

They ALSO would have signed that contract and they would have FORCED Michael to sign that contract.

But that didn't happen. Why do you think that is?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

bottom line for such claims to stick u have to prove that either AEG told murray to give mj dip and the benzos or knew he was giving it to mj and said nothing cause all that mattered was making sure the concerts went ahead. pretty much imposs to prove without documentation or someone flipping from AEG

 

[Autumn II]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

AEG demanded....

That's a pretty blanket statement in my opinion. I mean, WHOM from AEG made those demands. AEG is NOT a person. LOL!

Secondly, who is going to attest to what happened in that meeting? Some of us have heard this before, but in a court of law, they will need to say [fill in the blank] attended the meeting and can attest, UNDER OATH, what took place.

It's clear that nobody from the Jackson family was in that meeting, so where did that story come from, i.e. THE DEMANDS.

This part of the lawsuit reminds me of what happens when you hear a story over and over again, and how that story may start off valid, but once it is re-told, it ends up like that above, with no type of VALID back-up as to who said what.

As I said in my post, just because the lawsuit makes a claim, doesn't make it true! That is what Katherine's lawsuit CLAIMS, but it remains to be seen if she can or can't back it up. . . with witnesses, depositions, and so on.

In answer to your question of "whom," the lawsuit is very clear on that and names names. (read PDF?) Randy Philips, and others, are specifically named.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

AEG were monitoring MJ health so they KNEW every little detail.

actually do not make that as a factual statement. That's a claim by Katherine that AEG rejects. What they knew or should reasonably know will be an important thing.

also knowing what Klein gave to him might not necessarily equal to knowing what Murray was giving him. by all accounts (Klein interview and creditor's claim) he was giving Michael botox treatments, fillers etc accompanied by painkillers, his treatment regimen could be an obvious and visible one.

AEG demanded....

That's a pretty blanket statement in my opinion. I mean, WHOM from AEG made those demands. AEG is NOT a person. LOL!

that's actually AEG's argument against some claims. They say the requirements aren't met as some statements are to broad and isn't attributed to specific person at a specific time.

In answer to your question of "whom," the lawsuit is very clear on that and names names. (read PDF?) Randy Philips, and others, are specifically named.

who they are suing is clear however AEG claims that who said what isn't that clear.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Here we go again. AEG were monitoring MJ health so they KNEW every little detail. They MUST, because it was a part of the business and they were responsible for everything what happened with Michael. So Murray was under AEG control and they wanted only Murray to monitor Michael. Katherine is very right here. They have to answer why Michael is not alive.

Are you being facetious about the part I bolded of your post? I ask because I can't tell if you're really serious or not. Only a parent is responsible for everything that happens to someone. This was a business collaboration. A concert promoter may be responsible for providing a safe environment for the artist to work, but to expect them or anyone to know every little detail about the artist and be overall responsible for them is an extreme expectation. Katherine was Michael's mother, and she didn't even know every little detail about him.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

actually do not make that as a factual statement. That's a claim by Katherine that AEG rejects. What they knew or should reasonably know will be an important thing.

Right. And THAT depends on documentation for proof, i.e. letters and emails, and not just rumors. We haven't seen what attachments there may be to the civil suit, and we don't really know.

also knowing what Klein gave to him might not necessarily equal to knowing what Murray was giving him. by all accounts (Klein interview and creditor's claim) he was giving Michael botox treatments, fillers etc accompanied by painkillers, his treatment regimen could be an obvious and visible one.

Right again. Klein doesn't really figure into this very much. We are not certain what was being done in his office, anyway. Given the text of the civil suit, there "may" be a claim that Murray was told to "control" Michael with drugs (see above for PDF). I.e., the benzos. But that, again, depends on actual, documented, PROOF.

that's actually AEG's argument against some claims. They say the requirements aren't met as some statements are too broad and isn't attributed to specific person at a specific time.

If Katherine's suit isn't more specific, I can't see that it will hold up in court. I think that once again, she got terrible advice. . . .

who they are suing is clear however AEG claims that who said what isn't that clear.

Yes, WHO they are suing is clear (except for those over-seventy "does" that are not named.) We've seen here copies of an email exchange between Murray and someone named "Tim" at AEG, where Murray requests the nursing staff, "CPR machine" (which made no sense! He meant a defribillator, such as found in airports?), etc. If the email exchange can be validated, that's one for Katherine's side in that it would prove awareness on AEG's part that Murray was doing something unsafe, and that Murray felt compelled to report back to AEG. . if Katherine's suit even gets that far. . . .

 

[classic]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

. . . Yes, WHO they are suing is clear (except for those over-seventy "does" that are not named.) We've seen here copies of an email exchange between Murray and someone named "Tim" at AEG, where Murray requests the nursing staff, "CPR machine" (which made no sense! He meant a defribillator, such as found in airports?), etc. If the email exchange can be validated, that's one for Katherine's side in that it would prove awareness on AEG's part that Murray was doing something unsafe, and that Murray felt compelled to report back to AEG. . if Katherine's suit even gets that far. . . .

The problem with this is that Murray was "reporting" back to AEG; he was making a request for things and those things do not point to doing something unsafe. He could have suggested that it was all precautionary or whatever. That, I'm sure, wouldn't be the most outrageous thing a company such as AEG has heard requests for. So, it really would depend upon how Murray responded to any questions, if any, about that stuff and possibly how Michael responded if he was questioned about it also.

 

[Asedora]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Are you being facetious about the part I bolded of your post? I ask because I can't tell if you're really serious or not. Only a parent is responsible for everything that happens to someone. This was a business collaboration. A concert promoter may be responsible for providing a safe environment for the artist to work, but to expect them or anyone to know every little detail about the artist and be overall responsible for them is an extreme expectation. Katherine was Michael's mother, and she didn't even know every little detail about him.

Ok now you are trying to tell me that Katherine is responsible for how Michael felt during working hours with AEG? What a nonsense. Are you for real?
Murray worked for AEG and AEG is responsible for what this doctor did and what drugs he gave him. If AEG showed their cocerns about MJ visiting Klein's office, why they did not show their concerns about what Murray was injecting him with? WHY??????

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

If Katherine's suit isn't more specific, I can't see that it will hold up in court. I think that once again, she got terrible advice. . . .

as of now it seems problematic for example

about June 18 KJ's complaint states " AEG representatives including Randy Phillips" - it's unclear who those representatives are

the part you previously quoted say "AEG demanded" - who is referred to as AEG is unclear

I think there's also a part that says "Randy Phillips multiple times has threatened Michael" - but fails to give detail how many times and how he did so

AEG states that for a fraud claim against a corporation you need to identify the persons, whether they had any authority to make statements ( same sentence coming from a CEO versus a mail room clerk will be different in regards to authority and representative of company), and be clear in what and when it's said.

but if KJ has additional more detailed info she can simply file that as a response and be able to protect that claim to be dismissed. It's early to tell. You know I maintain a let's wait and see approach for this.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

The problem with this is that Murray was "reporting" back to AEG; he was making a request for things and those things do not point to doing something unsafe. He could have suggested that it was all precautionary or whatever. That, I'm sure, wouldn't be the most outrageous thing a company such as AEG has heard requests for. So, it really would depend upon how Murray responded to any questions, if any, about that stuff and possibly how Michael responded if he was questioned about it also.

Respectfully agree to disagree. Asking for a "CPR machine" sounds INCREDIBLY unsafe! (This was discussed here a few months ago, and it seemed that what he was asking for was a cardiac bypass machine, similar to what is used during heart-surgery! Red flags should have been going up all over the place!) And nursing assistance? At Michael's HOME? This was not for a person in a hospice situation, but a performer about to embark on a fifty concert tour and it's probably unprecedented, in the entertainment world or anywhere else. And actually, if true, it might come very close to the "most outrageous thing a company has been asked to do."

Problem is, without documentation to Katherine's claims, we really have no way of knowing if her lawsuit will hold water, or if it will not. So I agree with Ivy here, for a "wait and see" approach (not my usual approach, but in this case it seems warranted.)

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

The problem with this is that Murray was "reporting" back to AEG; he was making a request for things and those things do not point to doing something unsafe. He could have suggested that it was all precautionary or whatever. That, I'm sure, wouldn't be the most outrageous thing a company such as AEG has heard requests for. So, it really would depend upon how Murray responded to any questions, if any, about that stuff and possibly how Michael responded if he was questioned about it also.

Really ...?? You dont consider Murray requesting a CPR machine as odd???....There is a difference between having a defibrillator on hand...most places do...but a cpr machine????.....That is an odd request.....That had to of raised some eyebrows from AEG...

 

[StacyJ]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I have to agree.. when Murray started asking for stuff like that I would've said maybe MJ should not be doing these shows if he needs all of that. Mike should've just stopped all the frills and thrills and sat on the stage and sang.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

:fear:

 

[Autumn II]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I have to agree.. when Murray started asking for stuff like that I would've said maybe MJ should not be doing these shows if he needs all of that. Mike should've just stopped all the frills and thrills and sat on the stage and sang.

EXACTLY. I'm sure there was a lot going on behind-the-scenes that we'll never know? Murray's requests were so unusual as to be unheard of! This was not training to climb Mt. Everest, (complete with oxygen?) but a concert series that entertainers do all the time? To have advanced life-support machinery and personnel at a performer's HOME has not happened before, to anyone's knowledge? There was so much strangeness, and conflicting reports from various sources, that it was mind-boggling, but certainly NOT good. At least some of us were intensely concerned about Michael's well-being as the show dates approached. . . . .

Point being, that email exchange between Murray and AEG EXISTS, and we've read that HERE. That should have raised a HUGE red-flag, as in, "What the HELL are you DOING to him?" Now maybe these emails went to some sort of AEG underling, or maybe they went to a CEO? We really don't know, and if Katherine's lawsuit is thrown out of court, we may never know. . . . .

I SO wish he'd just sat on the stage and sang. . . . . .

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Ok now you are trying to tell me that Katherine is responsible for how Michael felt during working hours with AEG? What a nonsense. Are you for real?
Murray worked for AEG and AEG is responsible for what this doctor did and what drugs he gave him. If AEG showed their cocerns about MJ visiting Klein's office, why they did not show their concerns about what Murray was injecting him with? WHY??????

You misunderstood my post. My question to you was if you seriously believed that AEG's responsibility to MJ was to know "every little detail of what was going on with him..and it was their business to know and be responsible for him". I'm saying that level of responsibility for another human being is not the obligation of a business collaborator. It certainly is not the responsibility of a promoter, who's main purpose is to provide a venue and facilitate the staging of an artist's show. I mentioned the parent parallel because only a parent of a minor child would be expected to know or be responsible for someone to the extent suggested in your original post. Katherine was mentioned because she is MJ's parent, NOT because she'd have anything to do whatsoever with TII or any concert, but to show not even she would be expected to know every single detail going on with him in any regard and he was her son.

About Murray...No matter who he worked for, he injected MJ. Even if AEG ordered him to dangerously drug MJ, the fact that he did it makes him the despicable scum who perpetuated the heinous act. All Murray had to do was NOT do it, it doesn't matter what he was offered or who told him. If he WILLINGLY participated in anyway to deliberately cause MJ's death, he's worse than scum and his conspirators IMO because he is a physician supposedly dedicated to the preservation of life, and instead it would mean he willingly CHOSE to take MJ's.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

You misunderstood my post. My question to you was if you seriously believed that AEG's responsibility to MJ was to know "every little detail of what was going on with him..and it was their business to know and be responsible for him". I'm saying that level of responsibility for another human being is not the obligation of a business collaborator. It certainly is not the responsibility of a promoter, who's main purpose is to provide a venue and facilitate the staging of an artist's show. I mentioned the parent parallel because only a parent of a minor child would be expected to know or be responsible for someone to the extent suggested in your original post. Katherine was mentioned because she is MJ's parent, NOT because she'd have anything to do whatsoever with TII or any concert, but to show not even she would be expected to know every single detail going on with him in any regard and he was her son.

About Murray...No matter who he worked for, he injected MJ. Even if AEG ordered him to dangerously drug MJ, the fact that he did it makes him the despicable scum who perpetuated the heinous act. All Murray had to do was NOT do it, it doesn't matter what he was offered or who told him. If he WILLINGLY participated in anyway to deliberately cause MJ's death, he's worse than scum and his conspirators IMO because he is a physician supposedly dedicated to the preservation of life, and instead it would mean he willingly CHOSE to take MJ's.

Yes, Murray was responsible, but the complaint lists AEG execs. I think a lot hinges on the email exchange between Murray and AEG, that was posted here. That email exchange suggests a business relationship between Murray and AEG, that included requests about Michael's medical care. When Murray TOLD someone at AEG that he wanted a "CPR machine" and nursing staff," THAT was the moment when AEG was involved. If. . that is all true, i.e. are the emails legitimate? They certainly seemed to be. . .

No, AEG was not responsible for "every little detail." A request for a "CPR machine" is hardly a DETAIL! That is not a debrillator, such as is found in airports and large office buildings. It's a machine used in open heart surgery! If that was not a wake-up call, I can't imagine what would be.

Under the law, yes, if a company employs a "contractor," they are, indeed, responsible as well, if that contractor KILLS someone. It remains to be proven who, exactly, employed Murray, but that email exchange seems pretty definitive, as does an interview with Randy Philips where he indicates that AEG was the employer of Murray. (Youtube. I'd have to look it up again, but I saw/heard it.) That will have to settle out in court, of course.

Sadly, Katherine's lawsuit seems to be all-over-the-place, but if it had focused on a few things that could be documented, she might have had a better chance. Looks like she's had terrible advice. . . .

 

[Asedora]

Yes, Murray was responsible, but the complaint lists AEG execs. I think a lot hinges on the email exchange between Murray and AEG, that was posted here. That email exchange suggests a business relationship between Murray and AEG, that included requests about Michael's medical care. When Murray TOLD someone at AEG that he wanted a "CPR machine" and nursing staff," THAT was the moment when AEG was involved. If. . that is all true, i.e. are the emails legitimate? They certainly seemed to be. . .

.

Also it was a moment when AEG had to stop rehearsals and investigate why Murray would need that kind of machine for such a “healthy” artist like Michael.

And... to AEG supporters:

So when MJ went to Klein’s office, they were aware of it and they were able to stop it which tells me that they paid attention to such a detail like MJ “being sleepy” but CPR machine used by doctor Murray was OK? So, you are trying to convince me , that AEG did not know anything what was going on? What a nonsense! And why you ppl try to defend AEG so badly not Michael Jackson? WHY? Am I dealing with AEG secret service here? Why do I see a total absence of any flexibility in this discussion from AEG defenders?
MJ fans have to worry about Michael and his justice, not about AEG "well being". Personally I do not care about AEG , the same as I do not care about SONY interests.

Yes, we alredy know that Murray injected Michael. There is no need to tell me that over and over again.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Yes, Murray was responsible, but the complaint lists AEG execs. I think a lot hinges on the email exchange between Murray and AEG, that was posted here. That email exchange suggests a business relationship between Murray and AEG, that included requests about Michael's medical care. When Murray TOLD someone at AEG that he wanted a "CPR machine" and nursing staff," THAT was the moment when AEG was involved. If. . that is all true, i.e. are the emails legitimate? They certainly seemed to be. . .

No, AEG was not responsible for "every little detail." A request for a "CPR machine" is hardly a DETAIL! That is not a debrillator, such as is found in airports and large office buildings. It's a machine used in open heart surgery! If that was not a wake-up call, I can't imagine what would be.

Under the law, yes, if a company employs a "contractor," they are, indeed, responsible as well, if that contractor KILLS someone. It remains to be proven who, exactly, employed Murray, but that email exchange seems pretty definitive, as does an interview with Randy Philips where he indicates that AEG was the employer of Murray. (Youtube. I'd have to look it up again, but I saw/heard it.) That will have to settle out in court, of course.

Sadly, Katherine's lawsuit seems to be all-over-the-place, but if it had focused on a few things that could be documented, she might have had a better chance. Looks like she's had terrible advice. . . .

I do agree about a company generally sharing responsibility, but I do think when it comes to a personal physician, there's a difference.

If one of the lightning fixtures fell and hit a concert goer, no doubt about it, the concert goer would have a strong case against the lighting company AND AEG for employing them,. The concert goer probably wouldn't even bother to sue the lighting company, but go straight for AEG. But in the case of a physician, one that MJ brought to the project for his specific personal needs, there is definitely a question of AEG accountability and to what extent.

If MJ was directly paying Murray, there wouldn't be a question at all. AEG would not be accountable for Murray just like they weren't for Klien. With AEG's contention being that although they were directly paying Murray, but it was as an advance to Michael, they can make a case that Murray was never technically their employee, but Michael's. I guess it all really will come down to technicalities.

 

[classic]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Keep in mind that we haven't seen or heard all correspondence related to Murray's requests. And where is the evidence coming from about AEG forcing Michael to quit going to Klein? Sorry but that I missed hearing about.

Again, people would be walking on a thin line depending upon what explanations Murray and/or Michael gave about the requests. Was such, first of all, in the final agreement that Murray signed? Secondly, if so, it could be a matter of deferring to a doctor's opinion, especially, depending upon Michael's requirements as far as medical care and needs disclosure and who maintained final control of his health care. If Michael gave up his health care rights, then that is one thing; but I doubt that he did. It will also depend upon how the judge takes that correspondence as an indication of an oral agreement or not. One can say, why did he need a nurse but the same question could be stated for needing a doctor; so it will depend upon factors more than what is on the surface, in my opinion.

Also, let's not get drawn into who supports Michael, who supports AEG, and who supports Sony. Wanting justice for Michael includes wanting an accurate portrayal about his actions and mindset from everyone; so if right now I'm not convinced that Michael was truly this fragile, in a stupor, unable to make decisions and take responsiblility, fogged state, then I will question whomever makes such claims whether from Murray, family, or AEG employees. This very much is about Michael not being put through the wringer for anyone.

 

[gerryevans]

Also it was a moment when AEG had to stop rehearsals and investigate why Murray would need that kind of machine for such a “healthy” artist like Michael.

And... to AEG supporters:

So when MJ went to Klein’s office, they were aware of it and they were able to stop it which tells me that they paid attention to such a detail like MJ “being sleepy” but CPR machine used by doctor Murray was OK? So, you are trying to convince me , that AEG did not know anything what was going on? What a nonsense! And why you ppl try to defend AEG so badly not Michael Jackson? WHY? Am I dealing with AEG secret service here? Why do I see a total absence of any flexibility in this discussion from AEG defenders?
MJ fans have to worry about Michael and his justice, not about AEG "well being". Personally I do not care about AEG , the same as I do not care about SONY interests.

Yes, we alredy know that Murray injected Michael. There is no need to tell me that over and over again.

Then you must secretly be part of Murray’s defense team. The man injected MJ with a deadly drug and you ‘ve extolled how his patients say he was a good doctor. If he was a good doctor, he NEVER would have given MJ propofol unless he had every single piece of equipment necessary to ensure his safety. He especially never would have left the room. You go on about AEG knowing what Murray was doing and should have intervened. What about good physician Murray not giving him the drugs in the first place and not making it necessary for someone to intervene. He was the DOCTOR. Why didn’t he look out for the well being of his patient? The answer? Because he was looking out for his wallet.

I don’t know the extent of AEG’s role in all this. I do know they were more concerned about their interests than Michael’s. That’s contrary to Murray’s supposed role. His main interest was suppose to be MJ’s health and welfare. I don’t get minimizing his responsibility and going on about him being some lackey fall guy, when he was in a position to genuinely help him. Even if someone else snuck in that room and gave MJ the lethal injection, if Murray had been at his side like he was suppose to, what happened might not have.

So it’s not a matter of not being inflexible where AEG is concerned, its being INFLEXIBLE where Murray is concerned because of what he was and what we know he did,...but mainly know what he didn't do...properly take care of MU.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

If one of the lightning fixtures fell and hit a concert goer, no doubt about it, the concert goer would have a strong case against the lighting company AND AEG for employing them,. The concert goer probably wouldn't even bother to sue the lighting company, but go straight for AEG. But in the case of a physician, one that MJ brought to the project for his specific personal needs, there is definitely a question of AEG accountability and to what extent.

Sadly, what is lacking in all of this is Michael's testimony. AEG execs are saying "Michael wanted this, said this, felt this way," but there is no possibility of hearing Michael's version. We know that Michael already knew Murray. Did he want him as his physician in London? Probably. Did AEG also want Murray, maybe for different reasons? Sure, they did.

If MJ was directly paying Murray, there wouldn't be a question at all. AEG would not be accountable for Murray just like they weren't for Klien. With AEG's contention being that although they were directly paying Murray, but it was as an advance to Michael, they can make a case that Murray was never technically their employee, but Michael's. I guess it all really will come down to technicalities.

And THAT is the problem. It's a murky legal area. They were advancing Michael all kinds of money, or maybe even paying bills directly, such as staff, and the huge rent on that house. And it's pretty clear their intention was to pay Murray. So who really was the employer? You are quite right, it will come down to technicalities -- if it even gets that far.

If I pay a carpenter to fix someone ELSE'S house, and say, "You'll have to pay me back," and that carpenter messes up and kills someone -- WHO is responsible/the employer? It's really not all that clear.