Who Started It?

TheChosenOne

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I am hesitant about starting this thread but I feel that this is a crucial matter.

I was just reading about the snippet of the interview Katherine Jackson/Winfrey where Mrs Jackson asked Michael whether he had a problem with drugs. He denied that he did and remarked that even his mother did not believe him.

Now, in all the stuff that I have read related to this matter NO ONE can claim to have SEEN Michael taking drugs but HEARD that he had a problem. Michael was asked and denied that this was the case (which the whole denial thing comes into play).

My question is WHO in Michael's circle could have started this? Who could have been whispering to various people that they think he might have had a problem?

I am figuring that it has to be some one(s) who people felt could have this knowledge. If we could find out who, I think it would answer ALOT of questions.
 
I know his family has been saying he had a prescription drug problem. Janet even said to Oprah, they tried interventions to no avail. Michael always denied, but admitted he had a painkiller addiction back in 1993.

For the case, I think it's irrelevant if he had an addiction or not, because he didn't die as a result of misuse of prescription drugs.

What's important to determine is the circumstances involving the use of Propofol by Michael, which is the drug that killed him.
 
My question is WHO in Michael's circle could have started this? Who could have been whispering to various people that they think he might have had a problem?
randy jackson is seen as the main source from the mid 00's. info was posted in the why all the randy hate in the jacksons section of the board about what went on with friedman/lawsuits etc from that time and his involvement. the ones pushing the druggie story in the family are randy. and janet (who addmitted she hadnt seen mj in 2 plus years) and rebbie who are close to randy.no coincidence there

below is a small bit of info on what went on back then


Members of the family did go after MJ and accused him of being on drugs when it suited them, drugging him through mud did not prevent Randy from going to Roger with those allegations of severe drug abuse in 2007. who really believe it was a coincedence Roger's article appeared only 12 days after the MJ's affidavit surfaced, Roger acknowledged the same things MJ talked about in his sworn affidavit but according to his source Randy, MJ was not mentally healthy at the time, so his account was not to be taken seriously.
The fans did not believe Randy would do that, especially after MJ hurried to save his brother's face with a public statement and Katherine and the other siblings EXCEPT RANDY & JANET released a statement declaring there was no truth whatever to the story. After the bodyguards spoke and gave a detailed account of what was going on between them ,how MJ refused to let Randy in and how Randy threatened he would use the media against Mike, everything became clear. It was never about drug abuse. It was about MJ filing lawsuit against Randy's managers and accountants. Read Roger's article he did admit the family did not see MJ in two years and none of the things FAMILY SOURCES told him could be verified.



QUOTE
World of Jax & robbers

Singer says his brother and pal tried to cheat him out of fortune

BY THOMAS ZAMBITO DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Sunday, June 17th 2007, 4:00 AM

Jackson claims he was nearly swindled out of his fortune during his kiddie-sex trial and only the wise counsel of the Rev. Jesse Jackson and billionaire Ron Burkle saved him.

The behind-the-scenes battle over the pop star's finances is detailed in a sworn deposition he gave for a federal lawsuit scheduled to go to trial this week.

There is a possibility that Jackson himself might even be called to testify.

The seven hours of transcripts obtained by the Daily News reveal that the agitated entertainer was convinced his money woes were fueled by a cadre of disloyal advisers who stole from him while he was busy fighting criminal charges.

The Gloved One even fingered a man close to his older brother Randy as a key villain.

It was an ordeal that left Jackson bitter about the industry in which he's spent his entire life.

"It's full of sharks, charlatans and imposters," he said in testimony taken last summer in Paris.

"Because there's a lot of money involved, there's a bunch of schmucks in there," Jackson said. "It's the entertainment world, full of thieves and crooks. That's not new. Everybody knows that."

A Santa Maria, Calif., jury acquitted him of child molestation charges in June 2005, after which he retreated into the seclusion of his Neverland ranch.

But during breaks in the trial, Jackson says he was being pressured to sign off on a multimillion-dollar financing deal by Don Stabler, an associate brought in by brother Randy, his go-to guy on financial matters during much of his career.

Jackson initially took a liking to Stabler after Randy introduced them.

"He reminded me of people that live in mid-America like Indiana," Jackson testified.

Stabler was persistent, at one point during the trial sending a message through one of Jackson's Nation of Islam security guards that questioned the singer's faithfulness to his African-American heritage.

It was a sore point for someone who has denied he purposely lightened his skin.

By then, Jackson had turned to Burkle, the billionaire pal of former President Bill Clinton, for financial help. Burkle brought in Jesse Jackson, who's known Michael Jackson since his Jackson 5 days, to help with the consultation.

Burkle was calling him on the cell phone during bathroom breaks, warning him not to sign anything, Michael Jackson said.

Stabler wasn't happy, Jackson said.

"[Stabler] said, 'What's the problem? You're not down, you're with the Jews now. You're not down with blacks anymore,'" Jackson testified.

"It was unkind," Jackson added. "It was mean. It was meanspirited. It was nasty. Simply because he couldn't get me to sign something that he wanted me to sign."

The next time Jackson saw Stabler "he wanted to take my head off." And his brother Randy wasn't too happy, either.

Randy later claimed that Jackson and his staff had run up a $700,000 bill on his American Express card during the trial, which Jackson said he would repay.

It wasn't the first time that Stabler teamed with Randy in trying to get him to sign off on a deal, Jackson claimed.

At a meeting in a bungalow at the Neverland ranch, Jackson said he had his mother at his side when he fought off another proposal.

"And I vehemently told them, 'No, I am not signing this,'" Jackson recalled. "And I just remember how angry, the intensity of the anger in the room. And so they marched out."Jackson made his comments when he was grilled by lawyers for the Hackensack, N.J., finance company that is suing the singer in Manhattan Federal Court. The firm, Prescient Acquisition, is owned by businessman Darien Dash, who claims Jackson stiffed his company out of $48 million.

According to Dash's lawyer Steven Altman, Dash was due the money for helping Jackson refinance a $272 million bank loan and secure $573 million in financing to buy out Sony's half of the Beatles' song catalogue that Jackson co-owned.

But Jackson claimed he's never heard of Dash, a cousin of hip-hop impresario Damon Dash, and doesn't remember signing any agreement

Michael Jackson accuses brother
.



QUOTE
Michael Jackson's Family Calls for Help
Friday, June 29, 2007
By Roger Friedman

Michael Jackson’s siblings — including Janet — and his parents are so worried about the failing pop star that they’ve sent out an emergency 911 call.

Sources tell me that the Jacksons are in the process of contacting Thomas Mesereau, the superstar criminal lawyer who won Jackson an acquittal two years ago in his child molestation trial.

The word from the Jacksons is that they’ve met several times as a family and discussed bringing Mesereau in for an intervention to save Michael.

Mesereau, who did not return calls to this column, is said to be open to finding out what Jackson’s true mental and health status is at this point. If he doesn’t like what he sees, the Jacksons will ask him to do something legal to save their brother’s life.

Jackson, according to insiders, is in perilous health right now. There is talk that his liver is damaged and that he’s been seen vomiting blood, although there’s no confirmation of that.

What has been confirmed is that Jackson — whose penchant for prescription meds and alcohol is well-known — is depressed, alone and mixing ingredients instead of making a new album or working.

But it’s the two-year isolation from friends and family that worried the Jacksons enough to consider including Mesereau in the conversation, sources tell me. The culprits are said to be publicist/manager Raymone Bain and aide de camp/nanny Grace Rwaramba.

For instance: this column has now learned that Bain has brought Rev. Jesse Jackson on in some kind of executive capacity in Michael’s businesses.

Bain and Jesse Jackson have a long relationship, so this is no surprise. But two years ago, Mesereau — sensing trouble — removed Bain and asked Jesse Jackson to leave after he arrived in Santa Maria, Calif., to grandstand at Michael’s trial.

It was Jesse Jackson who two years ago caused an avalanche in Michael’s finances. Jesse Jackson, sources say, interfered in Michael’s business by attempting to call Bank of America president Ken Lewis to complain that Michael was being “ripped off” in some way over his $270 million.

Lewis refused to speak with Jesse Jackson. He was so annoyed by Jackson’s interference that he ordered the banker in charge of the account to sell the loans to Fortress Investments.

The result was a sale and subsequent refinancing that put Jackson another $50 million in the red. Jesse Jackson at the time had convinced Michael that business partners Alvin Malnik and Charles Koppelman’s plan to bail out the singer was no good.

But in hindsight, he was wrong. Under the original plan, Jackson would only have sold half his interest in the Beatles’ catalog to Sony. Now, next May, thanks to the Fortress deal, he will have to dispose of all of it.

Roger


Again the family tried to use Roger when it suited them:


QUOTE
Joe Jackson’s Partner Has Sketchy HistoryBy: Roger Friedman // Tuesday July 21, 2009
Michael Jackson’s father, whom he feared and loathed, got to say whatever was on his, er, mind last on “Larry King Live.”

Jackson is bad enough on his own, but he brought along concert promoter Leonard Rowe. Larry did not ask Leonard about losing a lawsuit with singer R. Kelly last year and having to pay him $3.4 million in damages. Rowe also had to pay R&B Grammy award winner Ne-Yo $700,000.

Rowe has a sketchy history at best. In 1998 he launched a lawsuit against the William Morris Agency, CAA and other group claiming racism as the reason he couldn’t promote more concerts. On December 30, 2005 ,after losing the case and appealing it, Rowe was finally crushed by a federal appeals court judge. A year earlier, another judge, finding for the defendants, wrote: “plaintiffs raised no genuine issue of material fact and that no rational trier of fact could find for plaintiffs on any of the myriad of claims made in this action.”

Jackson and Rowe (who is certainly no relation to Debbie Rowe) proved to be a hilarious but sad duo on King’s show. Joe Jackson’s claim that he never abused Michael—after reams of evidence including Michael’s own heartfelt assertions, La Toya’s book, and plenty of eyewitness accounts—demonstrated his inability to reason fact and fiction. Joe Jackson also claimed not to know what’s happened to Michael’s body—still not buried in a final resting place after nearly four weeks.

In this session, in which both Jackson and Rowe may have crossed the line legally with AEG Live and Tohme Tohme, Rowe insisted that he had a signed document from Michael Jackson dated March 25, 2009. According to sources at Jackson’s home—I reported this when it happened—this pair kept pounding on Michael’s door until he let them in. They wouldn’t give up until Michael signed something. Joe Jackson evidently said to Michael, “I’m broke and it’s your fault.”

The timing of this is interesting. It was the same weekend when the pair issued a press release announcing they were now Michael’s managers. (They weren’t.) They also called yours truly to enlist my help in overtaking AEG Live and wresting control of Michael’s money. I declined. I have the phone record to prove they called me one week before all this started, on March 18th, at 3:40pm. We spoke for four minutes. I recorded Joe’s number in my phone. Joe said, “I have Leonard Rowe right here” and started squawking that they were going to take over Michael’s shows. I offered that that was impossible. We didn’t so much hang up as Joe just drifted away.
There’s more about Rowe’s history in the concert business. If he forces the issue, all his past associates are going to come crawling out of the woodwork. In the meantime, my sources do say that it’s Joe and Leonard who are now haranguing Katherine Jackson to get a bigger piece of Michael’s estate. The ugliness goes on unabated.
 
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Wow! Just read those articles! I think it is Def Randy! He like in his own little world! :mello:He was doing his own thing when the other Jacksons brothers were together in that reality show! Jermaine said on LKL randy was dealing with other things like MJ estate! :bugeyedYea, I bet he was!

Janet admitted on LKL just recently that Randy and her are the rebellious ones in the family!:smilerolleyes: But, that the family are use to them being that way! How interesting!

And what can I say about Joe!?...:bugeyed He wanted a piece of what MJ was doing and he found his way in MJ life just for that $$$! I mean to admit u gonna take over your sons shows to the media...?:doh: Can u get anymore...crazy? No wonder his ass and Rowe was sent packing! SMH
 
My question is WHO in Michael's circle could have started this? Who could have been whispering to various people that they think he might have had a problem?

I am figuring that it has to be some one(s) who people felt could have this knowledge. If we could find out who, I think it would answer ALOT of questions.

Grace Rawaramba. Did you see this video? the doctor close to the investigation said that she was spreading lies to the media, Katherine and the Children!
This doctor also says that Grace was secretly conspiring with "other shady lowdown scumbags" against Michael. As to who those scumbags are, I'd sure like to hear more about this in the future.



So I looked up more on Grace a while ago found out that she was the one warning Michael's mother about "Michael's addiction". But I can't find that article anymore. If someone has it or can found it, please post it here. I also found a discussion on his website that was about exactly what that medical professional in the vid mentioned.

http://www.michaeljackson.com/ca/node/348660

Now, we obviously know why this story didn't get much or any attention in the media.
 
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seems to me that certain jackson has issues with grace as she was helping mj to keep them away from him.they had to go through her to get to mj. its no coincedence these stories about grace started at the same time as randy was imo peddling crap to freidman. ie mj the druggie. grace controling him and feeding him drugs intead of grace keeping family members away at mjs request and that pissing certain ppl off.
 
Grace Rawaramba. Did you see this video? the doctor close to the investigation said that she was spreading lies to the media, Katherine and the Children!
This doctor also says that Grace was secretly conspiring with "other shady lowdown scumbags" against Michael. As to who those scumbags are, I'd sure like to hear more about this in the future.



So I looked up more on Grace a while ago found out that she was the one warning Michael's mother about "Michael's addiction". But I can't find that article anymore. If someone has it or can found it, please post it here. I also found a discussion on his website that was about exactly what that medical professional in the vid mentioned.

http://www.michaeljackson.com/ca/node/348660

Now, we obviously know why this story didn't get much or any attention in the media.

I was wondering where Grace walks, NOW. She was quiet after being fired. :unsure:
 
Yes that's true, we haven't heard from her at all since being fired from the Jackson Family home.
 
Thanks for the info

Yet I wonder how to match that with the statements made by Randy to CNN in June, when he said that a "murder first degree" charge would be more appropriate.
 
Hello,

So I looked up more on Grace a while ago found out that she was the one warning Michael's mother about "Michael's addiction". But I can't find that article anymore. If someone has it or can found it, please post it here. I also found a discussion on his website that was about exactly what that medical professional in the vid mentioned.

Is this what you're looking for?

" Rwaramba, who is originally from Rwanda, is en route to L.A. where she will be interviewed by the LAPD, which is investigating why Michael Jackson died.

Having once proposed a drug invention for Michael, and contacting his mother Katherine and sister Janet for their help with it, the nanny instead got fired:

"He didn't want to listen. That was one of the times he let me go." "

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2...s-on-michael-jackson-drug-addiction-financia/
 
kinda funny cause other tabloid articles stated the opposite. that the family didnt like her cause she was the one drugging mj up LOL thats when mj was in bahrain and didnt want the family contacting him. anyway didnt those quotes supposedly come from that interview with barrack? yet no evidence was given to support it and grace denied it
 
what a mess.. so did these alleged interventions ever take place or was it just talk? They should've called in some professionals if they all felt MJ was in a bad way.. You mean to tell me out of all those family members, nannies, bodyguards, lawyers and doctors absolutely no one could've gotten MJ help for his sleep issues? Murray claimed he was treating MJ for insomnia so why didn't anyone else offer MJ some help with that? and Janet or Katherine claim they weren't aware of any sleep issues. Janet said propofol was for pain. I am very confused as to why and what the family was intervening for. I don't even think they know.
 
Murray claimed he was treating MJ for insomnia so why didn't anyone else offer MJ some help with that?


According to Cherilyn Lee, she did, but I haven't heard who

recommended her to MJ. That seems to be another of the

many things unknown to the public, and I don't see why

she couldn't tell that.

Maybe that too will come out during the trial.
 
what a mess.. so did these alleged interventions ever take place or was it just talk? They should've called in some professionals if they all felt MJ was in a bad way.. You mean to tell me out of all those family members, nannies, bodyguards, lawyers and doctors absolutely no one could've gotten MJ help for his sleep issues? Murray claimed he was treating MJ for insomnia so why didn't anyone else offer MJ some help with that? and Janet or Katherine claim they weren't aware of any sleep issues. Janet said propofol was for pain. I am very confused as to why and what the family was intervening for. I don't even think they know.

certain family members are claiming he was an out and out drug addict. nothing to do with diprivan or insomnia. or act stupid like janet by talking about diprivan being used for pain! they are totally clueless about the facts and their bros life but seeing as hes not here its easier to sell him out than admit u never saw him and were clueless about his life. none of what they say makes sense or is supported by the autopsy of medical files..they act like he died of an OD cause he was an addict who self injected when we know that is complete rubbish. the family give the impression that they have no clue what so ever about the facts of the case. theres no evidence of interventions. no exact dates or times given. the only mention is of randy crashing into mjs gates in vegas and nearly getting shot by the B.guards cause they didnt know who he was and the B.G's talking afterwards about how randy was hasstling mj to take part in the reunion and biz deals.and mj told them to keep him off his property and he didnt want to see him. the fmaily have created their own little workd where they were th victims who tried to help the druggie rather than admit he never saw them and wanted nothing to do with them. the family being so clueless about diprivan and all the other claims they make shows that.:doh:


Murray claimed he was treating MJ for insomnia so why didn't anyone else offer MJ some help with that?
there was some insomnia medication found in the house that had been prescribed by metzger i think from earlier in the year or late 08. so he had been trying other things.and imo it was probably something mj just lived with over the years with but knowing that he had to sleep to get through the shows he went to drastic measures
 
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they are totally clueless about the facts and their bros life but seeing as hes not here its easier to sell him out than admit u never saw him and were clueless about his life. none of what they say makes sense or is supported by the autopsy of medical files..they act like he died of an OD cause he was an addict who self injected when we know that is complete rubbish. the family give the impression that they have no clue what so ever about the facts of the case.

Unfortunately, I totally agree. And it's quite sad that we all seem to know more than they do...
 
and the fact they prefer to throw mj under a bus rather than admit they dont know things or just say no comment and then go find out what the hell happened sums up to me what they really thought of their own brother/son and its just more confirmation as to why he stayed away from them and spent most of his adult life looking for other families like the cascios to get close to and trying to find from them what he didnt get from his own flesh and blood.theres no excuse for the families ignorance whether its intentional like some fmaily members or sheep following like others. it just sums up what they really thought of mj and how clueless they are
 
From my understanding, Randy told all these stories about Michael. He couldn't stand Grace and blamed her and the family fell in line. And maybe she was overmedicating Michael but from what I remember, it started with Randy.
 
Here is a time line:

- Summer of 2005, MJ left the U.S leaving Randy in charge of his financial empire.

- Late 2006 and at the beginning of 2007 lawsuits being filed against MJ left and right, Miky Pharmacy claimed they were not paid during the period from May 2005 till December 2006 , they said MJ had a contract with them to pay for more than 50 individuals( MJ was abroad during that period), ofcourse the media said those 50 names were all aliases LOL they were actually his employees at Neverland. The state of California also ordered MJ to pay thousands of dollars as fine due to his failure for months to pay the health insurance covering his Neverland employees , again we are talking about late 2006 when MJ was still abroad and Randy incharge. A furniture company also filed lawsuit claiming they were not paid during that period.

- MJ came back on December,25, 2006. A few days later he filed a lawsuit against the team of accountants and mangers hired by Randy during the trial. He claimed they signed deals on his behalf without his knowledge, they stole ANNUALLY $2.5 millions dollar from his accounts, there were no records of where & how that huge amount was spent, the money simply disappeared, they did not pay his bills and failed to pay his employees salaries.Missing from the lawsuit was Randy's name ofcourse . The lawyers countered sued and the judge threw their claims out.

. Rumours spread; MJ owing his younger brother Randy almost $ 1 million ( suuuuure he was not even willing to pay for his own kids ) Randy threatening he will sue him, the fans believed it was just meritless rumours and Randy would not do such a thing, Oxman also filed his own lawsuit accusing MJ of cheating him out of $ 1.5 millions, the lawsuit was thrown.

- The siblings EXCEPT Randy ( pissed & busy trying to figure how to cover his ass )hired Leonrad Rowe in March ,2007 to prepare for the family reunion, that's two months since MJ came back to the U.S. They tried to contact him but he declined , still fresh in his mind the mess Jermaine got him into in Bahrain and what Randy did to him. He figured the family was trying to reach him in desperate attempt to convince him to drop the lawsuit against the accountants hired by Randy, Randy's name would be brought up sooner or later in the lawsuit and Mother Katherine's heart would be broken *sigh*

- In July 2007,MJ's sworn statement surfaced in which he blamed Randy for trying to force him to sell his share in the ATV/Sony catalogue.

- Randy tried to broke into MJ's house and force him to drop the lawsuit, when his efforts failed he threatened he would go to the media.

- Roger Friedman was the mouthspeaker, he wrote everything Randy fed him, he could not prove he did not steal from MJ, the best strategy was to convince his mother ,siblings and the very willing to believe public that MJ was heavily addicted and his accusations should have been ignored . He needed Kathrine's blessings and support so he had to blame someone other than Mike for the addiction, as we know katherine's boys do no wrong including Mike, he blamed Grace and Raymone.

- Katherine, Marlon, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Latoya and Rebbie signed a statement denying any intervention took place, missing were joe, Randy and Janet.

-Rowe was still talking of the family reunion, MJ issued a statement wishing his siblings the best and denying he would participate in any upcoming family event.

- May, 2008 MJ settled with the accountants.

-February, 2009 the family was shopping a reality TV show, everyone in Hollywood turned them down.

- March ,2009 MJ announced the This is it concerts , everyone was interested in everything MJ , the man had just sold 1 million tickets in four hours ,the brothers felt it was the right time to try their luck with their tv show , AGIAN everyone turned them down. That was in May, days later an article quoting Tito expressing his worries about MJ, telling friends he would not be able to do the shows due to his heavy addiction and we all know what Joe and Rowe did after they were sacked by him.


Conclusion: Convincing the rest of the family that MJ was on drugs was the solution Randy found to cover up his ass, especially since MJ was not the type who would come and confront u, he would hide and cut any contact with u. Deep inside everyone was willing to believe Randy , all of them were struggling financially and their brother was signing deals for hundreds of millions of dollars. You could only imagine how did they feel all of them with no exception when he sold out 50 concerts within four hours and they could not even get one tv to air a one-hour show on them. The frustration & anger toward him ;if he agreed to appear for one minute in their reality tv show, they would have got a deal, he denied them even that.

It was very easy to blame it on drugs than to accept the hard reality, or should I say their egos could not allow them to admit publicly their greedy ways was the real reason he did not want to do anything with them anymore. Compared to him they are losers on every level, they know it very well but hope their kids, wives, and the public don't ," hey at least we are not addicts":smilerolleyes:
 
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Thanks for taking the time to write down all that ;)
 
Elusive and soundmid ,,,thanks alot.

in Joe and Kathy's marriage annivrersary eveyone was asking MJ to include him on the O2 shows,Accordin to Jermaine, he asked MJ to include his son ,,,and u know Tito made it clear on international TV that he would love it if MJ allowe them on the stage with him...so maybe that party was their last hope and the ambush to pesuade MJ since the paty was four monthes before the actual anniversary .

Janet and Jermaine said that Anni. party was their idea, and u can read Leonard book to see what Janet exactly wanted from Michael at that time....i'm very sure, that anniversary shit was an ambush to get MJ since they know how much MJ loves Kathreine...otherwise they won't make a party for Joe ! never !

becuase after this attepmt failed, Joe and Rowe , were seen in that hotel's meeting fighting MJ and AGE...MJ bodygards and managers said MJ refused to come out of his car to meet joe who was standing outside the hotel until Randy Philips arrived...then MJ was seen walking side by side with philips away from Joe ....u can see this on youtube...


it is sad that MJ was afraid of Joe and felt more safe next to Randy Philips (another exploiter)...

anyway, i'll never trust a Jackson , even the 3T showed their true colors,they were close to MJ but they did not try to help him( if he was as they say out of it) ,otherwise they were never as close as they claim ! and they are also assuming that he was a drug addict !
 
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i think MJ did take drugs but not strong ones :no: but he didnt want his family to know because he knew it was wrong :yes: but it was the doctor gave him the wrong drug :yes::(
 
^^ and maybe he said nothing to them because he knew he could not trust them to dramatise or exploit.
 
The Jacksons don"t know what they did. Or do they ?
They all heard something....bla-bla.
They were not so close as they say . No way.
And Michael was not a crazy person. Is it easier to say he had a problem ?
So why didn"t they help if they were so close ? No way.
Michael was raising his children and took good care of them. He was no addict.
 
That was in May, days later an article quoting Tito expressing his worries about MJ, telling friends he would not be able to do the shows due to his heavy addiction

Please, do you remember which article??
On a TV interview for the Spanish Tv in the summer 09, he said exactly the opposite to what it is quoted.
 
The Jacksons don"t know what they did. Or do they ?
They all heard something....bla-bla.
They were not so close as they say . No way.
And Michael was not a crazy person.
Is it easier to say he had a problem ?
So why didn"t they help if they were so close ? No way.
Michael was raising his children and took good care of them. He was no addict.

1000% :agree:
 
Could you please update your timeline with dates from when he was in Ireland and for how long?

And also when he was staying at the Cascios for 4 months?

He also did that photo shoot with Ruska in Sept 07 I think?

Did MJ go from Barhain to Ireland directly or did he come back here first?

And the Jacksons statement was at the same time of the photo shoot?
Sept 07
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1788/jacksonstatementld2.jpg


Here is a time line:

- Summer of 2005, MJ left the U.S leaving Randy in charge of his financial empire.

- Late 2006 and at the beginning of 2007 lawsuits being filed against MJ left and right, Miky Pharmacy claimed they were not paid during the period from May 2005 till December 2006 , they said MJ had a contract with them to pay for more than 50 individuals( MJ was abroad during that period), ofcourse the media said those 50 names were all aliases LOL they were actually his employees at Neverland. The state of California also ordered MJ to pay thousands of dollars as fine due to his failure for months to pay the health insurance covering his Neverland employees , again we are talking about late 2006 when MJ was still abroad and Randy incharge. A furniture company also filed lawsuit claiming they were not paid during that period.

- MJ came back on December,25, 2006. A few days later he filed a lawsuit against the team of accountants and mangers hired by Randy during the trial. He claimed they signed deals on his behalf without his knowledge, they stole ANNUALLY $2.5 millions dollar from his accounts, there were no records of where & how that huge amount was spent, the money simply disappeared, they did not pay his bills and failed to pay his employees salaries.Missing from the lawsuit was Randy's name ofcourse . The lawyers countered sued and the judge threw their claims out.

. Rumours spread; MJ owing his younger brother Randy almost $ 1 million ( suuuuure he was not even willing to pay for his own kids ) Randy threatening he will sue him, the fans believed it was just meritless rumours and Randy would not do such a thing, Oxman also filed his own lawsuit accusing MJ of cheating him out of $ 1.5 millions, the lawsuit was thrown.

- The siblings EXCEPT Randy ( pissed & busy trying to figure how to cover his ass )hired Leonrad Rowe in March ,2007 to prepare for the family reunion, that's two months since MJ came back to the U.S. They tried to contact him but he declined , still fresh in his mind the mess Jermaine got him into in Bahrain and what Randy did to him. He figured the family was trying to reach him in desperate attempt to convince him to drop the lawsuit against the accountants hired by Randy, Randy's name would be brought up sooner or later in the lawsuit and Mother Katherine's heart would be broken *sigh*

- In July 2007,MJ's sworn statement surfaced in which he blamed Randy for trying to force him to sell his share in the ATV/Sony catalogue.

- Randy tried to broke into MJ's house and force him to drop the lawsuit, when his efforts failed he threatened he would go to the media.

- Roger Friedman was the mouthspeaker, he wrote everything Randy fed him, he could not prove he did not steal from MJ, the best strategy was to convince his mother ,siblings and the very willing to believe public that MJ was heavily addicted and his accusations should have been ignored . He needed Kathrine's blessings and support so he had to blame someone other than Mike for the addiction, as we know katherine's boys do no wrong including Mike, he blamed Grace and Raymone.

- Katherine, Marlon, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Latoya and Rebbie signed a statement denying any intervention took place, missing were joe, Randy and Janet.

-Rowe was still talking of the family reunion, MJ issued a statement wishing his siblings the best and denying he would participate in any upcoming family event.

- May, 2008 MJ settled with the accountants.

-February, 2009 the family was shopping a reality TV show, everyone in Hollywood turned them down.

- March ,2009 MJ announced the This is it concerts , everyone was interested in everything MJ , the man had just sold 1 million tickets in four hours ,the brothers felt it was the right time to try their luck with their tv show , AGIAN everyone turned them down. That was in May, days later an article quoting Tito expressing his worries about MJ, telling friends he would not be able to do the shows due to his heavy addiction and we all know what Joe and Rowe did after they were sacked by him.


Conclusion: Convincing the rest of the family that MJ was on drugs was the solution Randy found to cover up his ass, especially since MJ was not the type who would come and confront u, he would hide and cut any contact with u. Deep inside everyone was willing to believe Randy , all of them were struggling financially and their brother was signing deals for hundreds of millions of dollars. You could only imagine how did they feel all of them with no exception when he sold out 50 concerts within four hours and they could not even get one tv to air a one-hour show on them. The frustration & anger toward him ;if he agreed to appear for one minute in their reality tv show, they would have got a deal, he denied them even that.

It was very easy to blame it on drugs than to accept the hard reality, or should I say their egos could not allow them to admit publicly their greedy ways was the real reason he did not want to do anything with them anymore. Compared to him they are losers on every level, they know it very well but hope their kids, wives, and the public don't ," hey at least we are not addicts":smilerolleyes:
 
Could you please update your timeline with dates from when he was in Ireland and for how long?
he went to ireland from around the 23rd june 06 and arrived back in the USA i think on the 23rd december


And also when he was staying at the Cascios for 4 months?

i have mj on the east coast from around 23rd june 07 and arriving back in L.A on the 7th nov. whether he was with cascios all that time i dunno as he spent time around washington aswell. but that seems to be how long he was away when u go by sightings etc

Did MJ go from Barhain to Ireland directly or did he come back here first?

according to sightings mj left bahrain in january. he arrived in germany then and then was spotted in italy, uk and went to japan for the awards. after japan he was in paris and from paris went to ireland. of course u cant track every single day its just done on sightings and there was a rumour he had gone back to the usa for a short visit during that time but i dont know if it was every confirmed


yeah mj did the ebony photo shoot in N.Y in spet 07
 
From my understanding, Randy told all these stories about Michael. He couldn't stand Grace and blamed her and the family fell in line. And maybe she was overmedicating Michael but from what I remember, it started with Randy.

Right. In terms of the question in the first post, "Who started it?" Two words. Randy. And Grace. (maybe for different reasons, but the damage to Michael was similar.)

And in the era of the Murray case? I think it's more than likely that Randy "leaks" "stories" to TMZ (and gets paid for it), and there was that awful interview with Grace.

Wish there was a law that would require them both to sit down and STFU?
 
Right. In terms of the question in the first post, "Who started it?" Two words. Randy. And Grace. (maybe for different reasons, but the damage to Michael was similar.)

And in the era of the Murray case? I think it's more than likely that Randy "leaks" "stories" to TMZ (and gets paid for it), and there was that awful interview with Grace.

Wish there was a law that would require them both to sit down and STFU?
:clapping::clapping::clapping:Bravo!!!
 
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