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Where did the Moonwalk/Michael's dance moves originate?

Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

Tim84: there is no information that Jackson took "Moonwalk" move from Bailey. When Michael is influeced by concrete someone, he always credits concrete people -- no matter how they are known or not.

For example, he often credits Jakie Wilson, while nearly noone knows who he was. It was not Fred Astair phenomenon or something in terms of fame, not even near.

So if Michael would firstly see "Moonwalk" in film from 1950-s, he would say exactly that. But he says he saw it from street kids. This could be Daniel or Chambers (but not sumultaneously -- some one has too much fantazy and wishful thinking) OR anyone else whom we do not know.

However, the notion that Michael, who has been in dance since early 1960s, perfectly practiced it and developed with "breaky" 1974's "Robot", would all of sudden need anyone to teach him "Moonwalk" and elements of break dance -- is quite questionable.

Seeing dance with being able to catch it, perform, develop it himself -- usual Jackson's practice -- and needing someone to be "teached" by are different thing.
 
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Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

The lean was first done in an old 50's musical type movie.. I saw it in my dance history class, The title is not in my head now.. It was a Fred Estaire type movie.. It was not Fred who did the lean, it was a kinda thicker guy that had a white outfit on..

If the title comes to me, I'll let you know
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

Was it Gene Kelly? The lean isn't real anyway, lol. I mean, its an effect.

But I remember Jeff Daniels on this show in the UK I think, and he was talking about the moonwalk and acting all like he invented it and then they showed him the clip of Bill Baily doing it and he was really taken aback and didn't know what to say. All he could manage was "I've never seen that before". So, it kind of burst his bubble, so to speak, lol.

In one of the clips of Robinson that I saw he is dancing in front of a panel that has three big shadow silouettes of him as he dances, just like Michael has used. It really shows how much care is taken in the body positions when they use that technique. In the Robinson clip at some point the shadows stop following his and dance in a different direction. He then tries to follow his shadows and then just stands and looks at them until they dance off the panel and he starts dancing again. Very clever and done back in the 30's.
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Fred Astaire actually simulated that in his film "Blue Skys" from I think 1946, which if probably where Michael got it from too. So Astaire was obviously influenced by Robinson. Since he studied with him as well.

Any great dancer will always have perfect form. So if you take any photo still of Michael dancing and place it against a light or dark backdrop, you will always be able to make out clearly every position and angle of his limbs, torso, hands, feet, head, etc... Nothing is sloppy or loosely placed or jumbled with another part of his body. He has perfect symmetry, balance, extension, etc... Every step he makes is crystal clear and clean, he never has excess movement or meaningless movement or direction, everything he does is essential in getting fluidly from one pose to the next, and that's just natural ability.
 
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Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

LOL @ Denis. Well if people didn't know who Jackie was, then he could've mentioned Bill's name too. ;)

:lol: @ Jeffrey Daniels' response to Bill Bailey's version of it. :lol:
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

LOL, I know Timmy. Funny, huh? Some people think they're better then they are, ahuh.
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
LOL, I know Timmy. Funny, huh? Some people think they're better then they are, ahuh.
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But it sounds like he was that innovative. Maybe he did think it up on his own if he wasn't aware of what Bill Baily did. You have multiple skills involved. Spotting something someone else has done, recognizing its worth, and improving it is one (or maybe three lol) and creating something from scratch is another. People are going to eventually discover the same things whether they saw them before or not if they are creative and spend enough energy at it.

So how far did Daniels lean in his routine? Far enough that he needed to be anchored do you think?
 
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Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

Naw, someone taught Daniels or he saw someone else do it and then figured out how, I'm sure of it, in the mid to late 70s, popping and locking and boogaloo and all of that was really becoming prominent and if he was hanging around those circles, he would have picked it up from somewhere. A lot of it came from pantomime. Someone learns steps from someone else or some place, that's always the case. Steps themselves don't matter, its how you put the steps together, because every step under the sun has been done before, the body can only go in so many different directions. Daniels is a good dancer, but he thinks he's better then he is.
 
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Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

No not gene Kelly. It was not even a main character in the film. When I said "thick"
I menu chunky LOL
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

Well here is one more person Michael gave credit to and I have heard this before as well"

http://news.scotsman.com/uk/The-team-we-lost-this.3627027.jp

MARCEL Marceau was a man of few words. None in fact. With his white face, white gloves and battered hat with a red rose, he became what he himself called "the Picasso of mime".

His aim was to "make people laugh through their tears" and, thanks to his films, he will undoubtedly do that for generations to come.

Harlequins and pierrots had popularised mime in the 19th century, but it was Marceau who breathed new life into the genre during the second half of the 20th century. Most famous for his stage and film character Bip, he often compared himself to a ballet dancer, whose body movement was his art.

Himself inspired by Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton, Marceau in turn had a huge influence. Michael Jackson acknowledged that he'd borrowed his famous "moon walk" from a Marceau sketch, "walking against the wind".

Born Marcel Mangel to a Jewish family, Marceau had been lucky to avoid the Holocaust, during which his father died in Auschwitz.

Offstage or off-camera, he was far from silent. "Never get a mime talking," he once said. "He won't stop."
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

IMHO, there was too many dancers that Mike learned dancing from. I don't give credit to just one person though I've said Bill's name over and over again here.
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

SO MUCH has went into what made MJ's dance.. Even outside of DANCE.. he gets ideas from actors, and other people that he gets ideas from..

He even gets some persona movements from Jean-claude van damme.. Sertain walks and head nods..
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

Well Michael was given an honorary black belt for having a mastery command of Karate movement. You can see him perform that type of movement every once in a while. He didn't fight anyone to earn it, but it was given to him over having the form that a black belt displays, from what I understand.
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

When the brothas used to have boogaloo contests in Oakland back in the late 70's, this was their favorite song to dance to.

Michael will agree that THIS is a nice groove. It's called "Slide."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1tKTjRgJuE
 
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Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

Tim84: "LOL @ Denis. Well if people didn't know who Jackie was, then he could've mentioned Bill's name too. :wink:"

Yes, Jackson could, but never did and there is no information that he ever saw movie from 1950s before 1983.

So lets not be "upset" with Michael just because You guess something that was never confirmed, right?

EC: Jackson never acknowledged that Moonwalk's appearance had anything to do with "Walking against the wind".
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

should I open a thread about MJ's DANCE and where it was influenced?? I see this thread going in that direction and it's not really the topic anymore.. lol!
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

KOPV said:
should I open a thread about MJ's DANCE and where it was influenced?? I see this thread going in that direction and it's not really the topic anymore.. lol!
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You are right that the discussion has expanded. I think we should keep it in this thread and just adapt the title and lead post so we don't lose track of the robust discussion and wonderful posts we have here already.

I (or you could if you wish since it will be a couple of days before I get a chance) will get help from a mod to change the title and lead post to include other parts of Michael's dance since it can no longer be edited.

Maybe just "Where did the Moonwalk/Michael's dance moves originate?" together with a little explaination in the lead post? Probably not the best grammer but it fits on one line.

Oh gee, I just looked at my original post. :blushing: Maybe I can get my typos fixed too while I'm at it.:doh:
 
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Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

Tim:
troubleman84 said:
He upsets me. Michael's old ass didn't learn it from no "kids". :lol: He just KNEW people wouldn't know who the hell Bill Bailey was. ;)
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I meant this; no reason to be upset with Michael not naming Bailey when there is no information that Bailey ever had anything to do with "Moonwalk's" appearance from very beginning.
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

denisrs said:
Tim:


I meant this; no reason to be upset with Michael not naming Bailey when there is no information that Bailey ever had anything to do with "Moonwalk's" appearance from very beginning.
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I wasn't even flipping off but oh well. Whatever u say. ^_^ :lol:
 
EC: Here is the proof that some journalist just can not live without lying:
Michael Jackson Breaks Silence,
Remembers Marcel Marceau
KOP
When France's renowned mime Marcel Marceau died last month at age 84, many fans remembered his close connection with Michael Jackson, a Marceau admirer, even erroneously attributing The King of Pop's signature Moonwalk dance to the mime's influence.

In a Jet exclusive interview, Jackson shared how much in awe he was of the performer, how "he would defy the laws of gravity." The two developed a friendship over the last several decades.

However, while he "learned a lot" from Marceau, Jackson said his Moonwalk step, popularized in 1983, was intstead inspired by "watching the great rhythmic wonderful black children dance around the world."

Nevertheless, Marceau was one of his inspirators, Jackson said in his first magazine interview in nearly a decade "He was a great guy. I used to go and see Marcel Marceau all the time, before Off The Wall," Jackson said, with a smile. "I used to sneak in and sit in the audience and watch how he would defy the laws of gravity, like he was stepping on air."

Jackson said that he would later use of the mime's magical movements in his own dance routines. "I would take some of those things and include it into rhythm and dance when I moved," he said

Marceau died in the Southwestern France town of Cahors on Sept. 22. He had retired from the stage in 2005

-Joy T. Bennett
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Tim: You use some of interesting but not really proper language. Can You please say what do You mean by word "potna" or by phrase "flipping off"? ;)

And, exactly, what is funny in Your assumption, even in joke style, that Jackson would conceal name of his fellow artist because no one knows him?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Anyway, I feel the backslide had never gotten its just due until Michael came around. Mike was the one who put an imprint to the backslide. That's something "the kids" from back then can't take away no matter how many times we hear it but the backslide has been a part of dance culture for a long time. Michael's interpretation of it helped to enrich that move even if people just recognize it as Michael move. I accept it.
 
Yes, You are right -- no matter how often (well, actually not often) backslide was performed before Jackson, no one of common people ever heard of it or saw it. Or if even saw, performances did not catch their mind in such degree. There is complex reason behind that -- starting with technique nuances and ending with fame factor.

Ultimately, the question who "invented" backslide is rhetoric because it was actually performed even long before Bailey and even before 1920s and 1930s -- but we will not know exactly by whom and when exactly. The dance probably existed for thousands of years since the moment people could technically perform it (having smooth floor surfaces).
 
denisrs said:
EC: Here is the proof that some journalist just can not live without lying:
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Nevertheless, Marceau was one of his inspirators, Jackson said in his first magazine interview in nearly a decade "He was a great guy. I used to go and see Marcel Marceau all the time, before Off The Wall," Jackson said, with a smile. "I used to sneak in and sit in the audience and watch how he would defy the laws of gravity, like he was stepping on air."
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Is that from the new Jet interview? It is interesting because in one of the You tube videos I posted (don't recall which one now) Janet says that it wasn't until after the Motown performance that they realized that the street kids were doing the Moonwalk.
 
Thanks to TSCM for posting about this: His “Pop Video Artists and Hollywood Influence” will be held on Friday, January 18, 2008 at 6:15 pm at Lincoln Center's Walter Reade Theater.

It is nice to see we aren't the only ones interested. I wish I could go and see it.

http://wowjonesreport.blogspot.com/
Monday, January 14, 2008

INTERVIEW: Critic Armond White on Michael Jackson Lincoln Center Tribute









Michael Jackson To Be Honored at Lincoln Center in New York City
Tuesday, January 15, 2008 -- by Wow Jones


Groundbreaking Pop Star Michael Jackson is the subject of a one-of-a-kind presentation this week at New York City’s Lincoln Center.


As part of the Dance On Camera Program at Lincoln Center, distinguished NY Press Film Critic Armond White is dedicating an entire evening to the work of Michael Jackson in the music video genre. His “Pop Video Artists and Hollywood Influence” will be held on Friday, January 18, 2008 at 6:15 pm at Lincoln Center's Walter Reade Theater.

In this 90 Minute Presentation, esteemed critic and author Armond White will take an in-depth look at Michael Jackson’s early music videos and examine the Influence of Hollywood Choreographers and Hollywood Dance Icons in them. In an exclusive interview with The Wow Jones Report, Noted Film Critic and Author Armond White explains what he’s up to...



WJ – Why is Michael Jackson’s music video work the focus of your presentation?

AW – Because he’s the single most important show-biz performer of the past quarter century.

WJ – Do you think that people still care about Michael Jackson and his work? If so, who?

AW – Sure. Absolutely, from those who are obsessed with Michael Jackson’s notoriety to those who still feel the joy and beauty of his art.

WJ – What makes you think that Michael Jackson still matters?

AW -- The evidence is everywhere from the constant reference to his music by other musicians and filmmakers and in all media. Michael Jackson may have dubbed himself the King Of Pop; but the fact is Howard Stern stole his real title, because Michael Jackson is the King Of All Media.

WJ – Where’d the idea for a music video presentation on Michael Jackson come from?

AW -- Joanna Ney, who runs the Dance On Camera Program at Lincoln Center; requested the show in response to the number of Michael Jackson videos I have shown in past music video presentations at Lincoln Center.

WJ – Why the attempt to link to past Hollywood Influences? Isn’t it obvious?

AW – No it’s not obvious to most people. It’s fascinating to see the source of so many of Michael Jackson’s movements and visions.

WJ – Is it fair to compare and contrast Michael Jackson’s dancing in his music videos to those of old Hollywood Dance Icons like say…Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire and/or Bob Fosse?

AW – Of course it’s fair, we do it all the time. We always respond to new artists in terms of artists we’re already familiar with. And it’s clear that Michael Jackson was inspired by artists who came before him.

WJ – In light of the current option and ability to say…watch clips on DVD or on an IPOD, why is this Michael Jackson music video presentation necessary?

AW – They won’t get these insights or this program of videos any other way. Besides, I’ve always relished (and been thankful for) the opportunity to show this kind of work in this manner: LIVE and on the BIG movie screen—it’s unique and rare.


Film Critic ARMOND WHITE currently writes for the weekly newspaper, The New York Press and the periodical First Of The Month. In 1992, his essay on Michael Jackson’s ‘Black Or White’ music video, entitled “Black Or White, The Gloved One Is Not A Chump” won the ASCAP-Deems Taylor Award for Music Criticism. In 1994, he was the chairman of the New York Film Critics Circle. He’s served on the jury for the Sundance Film Festival and his music video presentations (Change the Style, West Of MTV, Romanek Fiction, Crossculture Dreams, Dreamworlds, Music To My Eyes, Visual Radio, Believe The Hype: Hype Williams -- ‘The Best Who Ever Did It’, The Official History of Music Videos: An Introspective) have been shown in film and video festivals all over the world from New York City to Dallas To Providence, Rhode Island to Miami, Florida to Tokyo, Japan to Brazil since 1993.

Armond White is also the author of two books – “The Resistance: Ten Years Of Pop Culture That Shook The World” (Overlook Press 1995) and “Rebel For The Hell Of It: The Life Of Tupac Shakur” (Quartet Books -- UK, Thunder’s Mouth Press -- USA 1997)













For more information or to purchase tickets please visit this link:

http://www.filmlinc.com/wrt/onsale/doc08/program14.html





Posted by Wow Jones at 7:05 PM 0 comments Links to this post
Labels: Armond White Interview Michael Jackson Music Videos Lincoln Center



"King Of Pop" Michael Jackson To Be Honored at Lincoln Center In New York City
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

eternitys_child said:
Here is another one from the same site. It ends the same but shows some of the other moves that Michael may have gotten from Jeffrey Daniel. Very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0-isEu89aA&feature=related


Wow! I also found this in the comments (from someone called cheekbeatah). We are back to Michael learning it from kids.



You Tube is amazing.
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I actually made that video, and I'm glad that a lot of people on MJ forums like it :)

The reason I made the video was to show that Jeffrey Daniel deserves more notability in pop culture as a singer/dancer than what he has today, since he helped choreograph some of Mike's pieces and performed similar dance moves, a long with performing the backslide (moonwalk) on television before Michael. However, some people seem to think that MJ stole the moves from Jeffrey, which is completely false, and not what I intended. Oh well...
 
Re: Where did the Moonwalk really originate?

Haxafax said:
I actually made that video, and I'm glad that a lot of people on MJ forums like it :)

The reason I made the video was to show that Jeffrey Daniel deserves more notability in pop culture as a singer/dancer than what he has today, since he helped choreograph some of Mike's pieces and performed similar dance moves, a long with performing the backslide (moonwalk) on television before Michael. However, some people seem to think that MJ stole the moves from Jeffrey, which is completely false, and not what I intended. Oh well...
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That was a great video. I didn't take it as negative in any way as you can probably tell from my comments in the thread. Have you ever met Jeffrey Daniel? He sounds like he is actually quite nice.
 
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