code753cr
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Ah,that is one thing I mentioned in my PM and that is what I was talking about!
I didn't know the article was posted online. But it is a interesting story.
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[Video] Another Part of Me performance from Wembley DVD
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Ah,that is one thing I mentioned in my PM and that is what I was talking about!
I didn't know the article was posted online. But it is a interesting story.
AlwaysThere
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Good for you. This is the best VHS of a concert I've ever seen.
This is truthfully ridiculous. That's all I'm going to say.
code753cr
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Not really. And I just re read that post now and edited a bit.
HIStory
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I do feel there should be a separate thread for quality/restoration talk. While it's related to the release (so it could be in the Bad 25 section) but honestly I care a lot more about Michael's performance and the concert itself than about people talking about how great they are at restoring stuff and showing off their restoration work.
Ah,that is one thing I mentioned in my PM and that is what I was talking about!
I didn't know the article was posted online. Most fans don't know about this. But it is a interesting story.
It was posted here months ago the moment when people heard "from VHS" and as I said the guy has been contacted through email, fb and twitter and he said they gave the films to MJ's people after their work is done and he has no idea where they are now.
Again just because the film existed 25 years ago doesn't mean that it's still available, still usable and in their possession
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However there are some things that professionals didn't do and I can't understand why. For example, making a better color correction, tweaking and reducing halos aka outlines and fix damaged frames like this.
What is it you can't understand exactly? Is it beyond the realms of probability that some of the frames from a 24 YEAR OLD VHS were beyond repair? This is tape were talking about, and worn tape at that. It is more than exceptable that some of the frames from a 2 hour concert from a 24 year old vhs have been left untouched in order to preserve the show in it's entirety. What would have been the alternative? Completely cut some of the frames out? You do not know what the original state of a vhs that's been lying around (possibly in a damp box for 24 years) was, yet a few of you 'restoration experts' assume what exactly? Also, comparing this situation to Queen's situation is pointless. It's a completely different situation. Why not compare it to Hitchcock films, which are also being restored and released on blu-ray, but then it's taken the people who are working on Hitchcock since 1942 to unearth certain film. MJ is only gone 3 years. It could take them another 10 or 20 before film footage is unearthed. The Estate is new to this situation and are still trying to get it right. It is a miracle we are getting Wembley at all. Right now this concert, if left in box or in a room for another few years, may have been completely unsavable.
Quick edit (please open both images in 2 different tabs of your browser and switch to see the differences
original work (done by a professional lab):
Shot at 2012-09-07
quick edit (by a simple fan):
Shot at 2012-09-07
I can't do miracles since I don't have the original VHS. Don't forget I'm starting from a source that is already enhanced.. many details are lost because of filters set too strongly and I simply can't recover them.
I could get rid completely of the halos (these black lines around his shirt)... but I need to code my own matrix and I'm just to lazy for that.
To be completely honest, all you've seemed to have done is tweaked the colours to your preferable specifications. I know a few fans are in awe of your tweak, but big deal like. The people that have worked on the vhs have restored a 2 hour concert tape frame by frame, cleaning dirt and dust, restoring colour and picture, removing track lines and leaving the actual tape in tact. No easy task whatsoever! And we don't know HOW BAD IT ACTUALLY WAS!!
Alot of you guys have your nice little youtube pages and spend your time tweaking colour and contrast and talking like your experts. A nice little hobby but nowhere near what professionals are doing.
Some of us realise the importance of this Wembley show and have waited 24 years to see it, or for the best part. And then others havent been waiting not at all or are waiting less than 6 or 7 years and don't seem to understand the situation given the numerous explanation.
But hey, you guys are KILLING TIME right?!!!
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Ah,that is one thing I mentioned in my PM and that is what I was talking about!
I didn't know the article was posted online. Most fans don't know about this. But it is a interesting story.
Actually, anyone that has a passing interest in Bad Tour 88 knows all about this. It's no big secret or anything new. When we were righting letters and sending emails back in 2007, we knew about this. No biggy at all actually and nothing new to those of us that have waited years for this.
code753cr
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Sorry, I didn't know. I'll edit that.
Rudolf
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Please!.......
Have you seen behind the scenes restorations? This is a piece of cake! Take a look at what fans can fix -
code753cr
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What really makes me laugh is that alot of ASSUME that the people that worked on the 24 year old vhs had as easy a job as the example you just posted. Have you seen the before state of the vhs? I rather doubt it! Here's an idea, take up the issue with the Estate. Thats what alot of fans done when they wanted the tour to begin with. Rather than sitting around and talking in circles, people got off their asses and were pro-active. Basically, the opposite of what alot of you guys have done. I mean you've had till May and you guys are experts so.....
This is nothing personal by the way....I'm just KILLING TIME.
code753cr
Proud Member
Another thing to bring up that I just though about...
It's pathetic how simple fans can go to archives and lease and buy and trade to get rare MJ footage, for example Lounis Production. He found Tokyo and Rome in better quality than Wembley! Regular fans can find better quality footage. Has the estate tried to look for at least a beta of wembley or the 35 MM? He looked in their archives but what about others? Has he tried to look for others who have it and try to get it from there or him/her? There are other sources and people who probably have this stuff. Of course that would cost a lot more money and work,but after many fans waiting for so long, they deserve it.
It's pathetic how simple fans can go to archives and lease and buy and trade to get rare MJ footage, for example Lounis Production. He found Tokyo and Rome in better quality than Wembley! Regular fans can find better quality footage. Has the estate tried to look for at least a beta of wembley or the 35 MM? He looked in their archives but what about others? Has he tried to look for others who have it and try to get it from there or him/her? There are other sources and people who probably have this stuff. Of course that would cost a lot more money and work,but after many fans waiting for so long, they deserve it.
code753cr
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How can we do that? Oh and didn't we see the original quality of the footage when it was in the very first Bad 25 teaser? And that Bad snippet that was on the news once.
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Oh I don't know, get phone numbers and email address, ring people and email people, create petitions and campaign, you know the type of stuff that people who walk the walk the actually do. I mean anyone can talk the talk.
Also you could just NOT BUY IT! It will be leaked online by next friday anyway and you could make your own nice little youtube hobby craft restorations. Nobody is making anybody buy this.
Galactus123
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I think Estate should do everything possible to find the film footage. It is very important. I hope they are doing it already. They need to talk to the people that were working on Bad Tour at the time. If they find them someday, future Blu-ray release of Bad Tour would be awesome!
Not long to Bad 25!
dmehta
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There is expressing an opinion, which everyone is entitled to have, and then there is repeating a point over and over and over again until people just get sick and tired of it.
The Estate have been exceptionally open and honest with us about this DVD. They didn't have to be. There was no stipulation in Michael's will to his executors that stated: "communicate with the fans about every grievance they have". But they have anyway. We know what the problems are in terms of quality for this DVD, and we know the reasons for it. In my opinion they have done the best they can under the circumstances - which is restoring a 24 year old VHS. If you disagree, fine, make your point but don't shove your opinion down everyone's throats at every conceivable opportunity.
If you are still not convinced that the Estate have done the best job possible under the circumstances, then do one thing - don't buy it!
The Estate have been exceptionally open and honest with us about this DVD. They didn't have to be. There was no stipulation in Michael's will to his executors that stated: "communicate with the fans about every grievance they have". But they have anyway. We know what the problems are in terms of quality for this DVD, and we know the reasons for it. In my opinion they have done the best they can under the circumstances - which is restoring a 24 year old VHS. If you disagree, fine, make your point but don't shove your opinion down everyone's throats at every conceivable opportunity.
If you are still not convinced that the Estate have done the best job possible under the circumstances, then do one thing - don't buy it!
Rudolf
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Yes, you are correct. But that is really no excuse for not correcting the damaged BJ frame I posted earlier. That is one small spot in one frame. Not that it bothers me. It doesn't distract me but what bothers me about it is that it shouldn't be there. I am just referring to that one problem in BJ frame. You might think I am picky, negative, complaining etc, but if I see such not fixed piece of cake spot, it makes me think the restoration wasn't done 100% going through the footage. I assume it was just done at one take therefore they didn't bother to fix such little things. It is just inaccurate restoration if they skip something and that's only thing which slightly irritates me. Don't get me wrong, I am very excited about this and can't wait, but I'm just being realistic, blunt if you say so.
Here is my quick take on this which is by no means perfect -
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Awsome post! I am sick to my stomach of the same people coming into this thread posting the same pointless point over and over and over again. It's pointless if your gonna repeat it and do nothing!
Being all negative and raining on fans parade. I wonder how many of these fans will buy this when it's released? My guess is that they all will. Hypocrites!!
dmehta
Proud Member
@MJJLatvia you've made that point about 5 times, and if I'm honest that picture you're posting is a bit
misleading. That artefact is from a flash bulb going off in the crowd. When you watch the trailer you can see that. It's not as if there is a big grey streak across the screen whole screen while MJ is moonwalking!
misleading. That artefact is from a flash bulb going off in the crowd. When you watch the trailer you can see that. It's not as if there is a big grey streak across the screen whole screen while MJ is moonwalking!
Galactus123
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People can say negative things about the release but still be very excited about it.
Rudolf
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Perhaps you are right. In case I am wrong, my deepest apologies.
By the way, I personally love such debates about videos and enjoy them. Very interesting topic to me. But yes, I have made my point and I see you guys are sick of it, so be it. *leaves the thread*
uhmm I'm pretty sure what Lounis is doing isn't legal. Didn't Sony closed down his forum and suing him or tried to sue him?
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Yes, you are correct. But that is really no excuse for not correcting the damaged BJ frame I posted earlier. That is one small spot in one frame. Not that it bothers me. It doesn't distract me but what bothers me about it is that it shouldn't be there. I am just referring to that one problem in BJ frame. You might think I am picky, negative, complaining etc, but if I see such not fixed piece of cake spot, it makes me think the restoration wasn't done 100% going through the footage. I assume it was just done at one take therefore they didn't bother to fix such little things. It is just inaccurate restoration if they skip something and that's only thing which slightly irritates me. Don't get me wrong, I am very excited about this and can't wait, but I'm just being realistic, blunt if you say so.
Here is my quick take on this which is by no means perfect -
You work is very nice, but my eye's will be on MJ, not that prticular part of the stage at that particular momment. It is a flash bulb.
Latvia, you are a cool person and I appolgise for being blunt. I uderstand your point and didn't mean to particularly aim such an argument at you personally, but at this point in time Wembley is less than 6 days from release. It's shipped and it's a done deal. I would almost bet anything that the restoration people painstakingly restored this footage to very best it could be. Within doing that, I'm certain sacrifices had to be made. They only had what, 2 or 3 months to do this so time wasent their friend and not on their side. The important thing atleast imo, is that with an MJ concert, it is all about MJ's performance. This doesn't rule out blu-ray standard Bad Tour concerts or any other hd concerts at a future time. Things could take years to be unearthed and certain fans/collectors need to come forward, although I know some of them want to get paid. This release will lower the value of concerts such as Rome. Things are moving forward in a very positive way. In time we will have hd MJ, but right now we have Wembley 88 as part of Bad25 and that is (given the situation) incredible.
Rudolf
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DVD will look fine enough for viewing on tv imo. Will look better than amazon clips for sure. I think amazon apom is actually altered and tweaked by themselves meaning made darker and sharpened more. Either way gonna enjoy. MITM is the priority for me
BTW anyone knows when HN is supposed to be premiered??
BTW anyone knows when HN is supposed to be premiered??
OnirMJ
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My final thought about the quality:
I'm really disappointed and saddened by the picture quality and I still haven't decided whether I'll buy DVD or not. But I probably will because it is Michael Jackson and if I bought Vision, MICHAEL and Immortal, I can buy this also. Even in poor quality it is still much better than all those shitty/half fake releases. Of course the concert is amazing and for us fans the picture quality is ok and watchable, but imagine all other people who is going to buy BAD25. When they put their DVD into their DVD players, they will say "WTF is this, I want my money back". Imagine if you bought DVD of any other artist in that quality, what would your reaction be?
I'm really disappointed and saddened by the picture quality and I still haven't decided whether I'll buy DVD or not. But I probably will because it is Michael Jackson and if I bought Vision, MICHAEL and Immortal, I can buy this also. Even in poor quality it is still much better than all those shitty/half fake releases. Of course the concert is amazing and for us fans the picture quality is ok and watchable, but imagine all other people who is going to buy BAD25. When they put their DVD into their DVD players, they will say "WTF is this, I want my money back". Imagine if you bought DVD of any other artist in that quality, what would your reaction be?
Dudex
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i can't imagine a person who will say "WTF is this, I want my money back" after watching dvd and listening cds.
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