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UPDATE: Baby is Microwaved to Death

Severus Snape

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California mom accused of killing baby in microwave
Investigators compared child's injuries to three other similar cases

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 1 hour 1 minute ago

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — Sacramento police have arrested a mother after an investigation found her baby likely died from burns suffered in a microwave oven.
Ka Yang, who is 29, is being held without bail in Sacramento County Jail. She was arrested Tuesday, three months after her 6-week-old daughter was found dead in the family home.
Yang has been charged with homicide, NBC station KCRA TV reported.
Police described the child as suffering "extensive thermal injuries."
Officer Laura Peck said investigators pinpointed what they believe is the cause of death by looking for other cases involving similar injuries.
They found three in the U.S., all after children were burned in a microwave.
Among them was a case involving Dayton, Ohio, woman convicted this year of baking her baby in a microwave. The two other cases were in Galveston, Texas; and New Kent County, Va.

Sacramento County coroner's spokesman Ed Smith told the Sacramento Bee newspaper that the infant's fourth-degree burns were among the worst investigators there had seen.
"The child was apparently killed by the burning of the tissue," Smith told the Bee. "I don't know if they can say how long baby was in the microwave."
Peck says police do not have a motive. No attorney was listed for Yang.
Police said Yang has three other young children, all boys ages 7 and younger. They have been removed from her home.
Last month, an Ohio woman convicted of killing her month-old baby daughter in a microwave oven was spared the death penalty and sentenced to life in prison without parole.
China Arnold, 31, of Dayton, was convicted of aggravated murder. Prosecutors say Arnold intentionally put 28-day-old Paris Talley in a microwave and turned it on after a fight with her boyfriend. The couple had argued over whether the boyfriend was the infant's biological father.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43488558/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
 
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Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

:eek: omg i cannot belive this.......:puke: that poor baby :(
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

^Yeah, I'm racking my head for a possible motive. It's definitely one of the most bizarre manners of homicide I've heard of.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

poor baby. what a painful death.

what a crazy world we live in
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

... Man... I don't know, but I think such horrifyingly shocking threads shouldn't even exist... I mean, it makes one totally feel grossed out by life those moments... and there's more to life than this.

dunnow..
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

someone please tell me this is a sick joke.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

I can't even imagine that kind of death. It's sickening to think about. I think so many people in the world are so messed up. Who even has that kind of thought to come into their head? What kind of person does that?
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

I just don't understand some people!

There should be a parental licence, just like there is a driving licence.

The responsibles should have equal treatment. You don't touch a baby or a child! Period.
 
Horrible!! I can't understand why would someone do that..

I have said this on an another thread, but this is similar subject.

It’s amazing at how good we humans are at destroying lifes(human and animal), nature on this beautiful planet.
Planet Earth is better off without us, humans!
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

What the HELL is wrong with people! Ah, I swear nothing surprises me anymore!
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

That's horrendous and sick! That poor baby...my heart bleeds. :( And I think it's safe to say the woman who did it is incredibly sick in the head. Unbelievable. :cry: And to think some people who would make the greatest parents are unable to have children. This world is unfair.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

twinklEE said:
someone please tell me this is a sick joke.
Click to expand...

As likely as that would sound, this is no joke. There have been similar cases reported in the U.S. alone., as the article states. I think it's safe to say the child's mother is obviously mentally unstable. I'm no expert, but what comes to mind is post-partum depression. Of course, that alone wouldn't prompt a regular mother to microwave her baby like a bag of pop secret popcorn, but think about it. My hypothesis is that the woman in question was already mentally unstable from the get-go, having some serious mental illness, and that combined with post-partum depression may have been what caused her to want to do something like this (the reason I am saying this is because the method of killing is completely unorthodox).

Usually callous murderers/sociopaths/sadists kill with more traditional means (poison, gunshots, beatings, etc.) but unorthodox murder methods are, from what I have observed, good indicators of severe mental illness as opposed to a personality disorder like antisocial personality (sociopaths). With sociopaths, there also has to be a known gain--there are many sociopaths who never murder, because doing so doesn't benefit their situation--and I can't see a known gain in this case. Sadist would also enjoy torturing the baby before killing it, and there is as of yet no evidence of this occurring before the child's death.

This is all, of course, merely hypothesis. I know next to nothing about the fine details of the case, since this is all new, so I may be entirely mistaken.
 
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Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

Mikage Souji said:
As likely as that would sound, this is no joke. There have been similar cases reported in the U.S. alone., as the article states. I think it's safe to say the child's mother is obviously mentally unstable.
Click to expand...

Mentally unstable?

That's too kind; She's a horrible monster that does not deserve to live. No excuse whatsoever for such a beast. Zero tolerance! She should be treated the way the baby was treated.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Mentally unstable?

That's too kind; She's a horrible monster that does not deserve to live. No excuse whatsoever for such a beast. Zero tolerance! She should be treated the way the baby was treated.
Click to expand...

Who said I was making excuses? There is a difference between understanding how a crime was executed and justifying it. It does us great good to attempt to understand the possible deviations of the human mind, since we derive knowledge from understanding under what conditions something like this can take place, and taking measures to prevent such occurrences in future. Obviously, nothing in this planet would justify the microwave roasting of a small child, but there is something to be said about understanding mentally unstable individuals. If someone is clinically insane and cannot understand right from wrong, we cannot hold them up to the same standards as a normally functioning human being. Then again, the question would be--how did such an individual end up as caretaker of a small child? That's when we get to the controversial idea of sterilizing highly mentally unstable individuals, so as to prevent them from having children they wouldn't be able to take care of anyway.

Although an unpopular idea, I think it's a reasonable one--many of them are severely traumatized by pregnancies and the trauma worsens when the children are born, so that it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility for them to murder their own child to make the unpleasantness stop. As someone mentioned earlier, I also am in favour of a parenting license being a pre-requisite for raising children [it would have stopped my mother from attempting to raise my siblings and I, and perhaps we'd be under more pleasant circumstances presently]. The question then becomes--who decides what is and isn't adequate parenting, and what does one do with, say, teenage pregnancies? Forced abortion? Some may consider that dangerous territory, perhaps even unconstitutional, and able to develop into something more sinister.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

I didn't say you were making excuses. I said that the term "mentally unstable" is too kind.

On the other hand I would even not try to understand such a behavior. There is nothing to understand there. Wrong is wrong, and even the most handicaped person understand the idea of what is wrong.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

Mikage Souji said:
Who said I was making excuses? There is a difference between understanding how a crime was executed and justifying it. It does us great good to attempt to understand the possible deviations of the human mind, since we derive knowledge from understanding under what conditions something like this can take place, and taking measures to prevent such occurrences in future. Obviously, nothing in this planet would justify the microwave roasting of a small child, but there is something to be said about understanding mentally unstable individuals. If someone is clinically insane and cannot understand right from wrong, we cannot hold them up to the same standards as a normally functioning human being. Then again, the question would be--how did such an individual end up as caretaker of a small child? That's when we get to the controversial idea of sterilizing highly mentally unstable individuals, so as to prevent them from having children they wouldn't be able to take care of anyway.

Although an unpopular idea, I think it's a reasonable one--many of them are severely traumatized by pregnancies and the trauma worsens when the children are born, so that it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility for them to murder their own child to make the unpleasantness stop. As someone mentioned earlier, I also am in favour of a parenting license being a pre-requisite for raising children [it would have stopped my mother from attempting to raise my siblings and I, and perhaps we'd be under more pleasant circumstances presently]. The question then becomes--who decides what is and isn't adequate parenting, and what does one do with, say, teenage pregnancies? Forced abortion? Some may consider that dangerous territory, perhaps even unconstitutional, and able to develop into something more sinister.
Click to expand...

But Mikage, this occurred after she had a fight with her boyfriend over paternity. Who has a fight with a man over paternity and their solution is to microwave the baby?
I know PPD is tough, but I really think it cannot be used to justify microwaving a child. I would even buy that more is she had killed her child in a painless manner. If she was depressed and just wanted the pain to stop. But arguing with your boyfriend and then microwaving your child does not seemlike the workings of the depressed, but of the psychotic.

But that is JMHO.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

Mikage Souji said:
Who said I was making excuses? There is a difference between understanding how a crime was executed and justifying it. It does us great good to attempt to understand the possible deviations of the human mind, since we derive knowledge from understanding under what conditions something like this can take place, and taking measures to prevent such occurrences in future. Obviously, nothing in this planet would justify the microwave roasting of a small child, but there is something to be said about understanding mentally unstable individuals. If someone is clinically insane and cannot understand right from wrong, we cannot hold them up to the same standards as a normally functioning human being. Then again, the question would be--how did such an individual end up as caretaker of a small child? That's when we get to the controversial idea of sterilizing highly mentally unstable individuals, so as to prevent them from having children they wouldn't be able to take care of anyway.

Although an unpopular idea, I think it's a reasonable one--many of them are severely traumatized by pregnancies and the trauma worsens when the children are born, so that it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility for them to murder their own child to make the unpleasantness stop. As someone mentioned earlier, I also am in favour of a parenting license being a pre-requisite for raising children [it would have stopped my mother from attempting to raise my siblings and I, and perhaps we'd be under more pleasant circumstances presently]. The question then becomes--who decides what is and isn't adequate parenting, and what does one do with, say, teenage pregnancies? Forced abortion? Some may consider that dangerous territory, perhaps even unconstitutional, and able to develop into something more sinister.
Click to expand...

But Mikage, this occurred after she had a fight with her boyfriend over paternity. Who has a fight with a man over paternity and their solution is to microwave the baby?
I know PPD is tough, but I really think it cannot be used to justify microwaving a child. I would even buy that more is she had killed her child in a painless manner. If she was depressed and just wanted the pain to stop. But arguing with your boyfriend and then microwaving your child does not seem like the workings of the depressed, but of the psychotic.

But that is JMHO.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

ginvid said:
But Mikage, this occurred after she had a fight with her boyfriend over paternity. Who has a fight with a man over paternity and their solution is to microwave the baby?
I know PPD is tough, but I really think it cannot be used to justify microwaving a child. I would even buy that more is she had killed her child in a painless manner. If she was depressed and just wanted the pain to stop. But arguing with your boyfriend and then microwaving your child does not seem like the workings of the depressed, but of the psychotic.

But that is JMHO.
Click to expand...

Not this particular case. That was another similar case, the one you mentioned about a woman having a fight with her boyfriend over paternity. They cited similar cases occurring, as I said earlier. The case you are referring to pertains to 31 year old China Arnold, whereas the case which made the news in this instance is that of 29 year old Ka Yang, and as of the time of my original post, the motive was not known.

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I didn't say you were making excuses. I said that the term "mentally unstable" is too kind.

On the other hand I would even not try to understand such a behavior. There is nothing to understand there. Wrong is wrong, and even the most handicaped person understand the idea of what is wrong.
Click to expand...

This is not true at all. Right and wrong are learned concepts, not universal principles, nor the mandates of nature. In the natural world, things are more-or-less anarchic, with there existing no moral principles, and animals following their instincts, etc. It takes a more evolved intelligence to understand what is right and wrong, and from that understanding, choosing whether to accept the morals presented or reject them. Lower intelligences, by contrast, would not be capable of grasping such principles--take, for example, a cat. Cats are known for playing with their prey before they kill/eat it, an action which obviously terrifies the mouse and places it under much anxiety, and action which, if the cat were a human being, would land him in prison. However, the question becomes, can we hold this cat accountable for his cruelty if he does not know what is and isn't cruel, has no awareness of the pain his torment is causing the mouse, and has no understanding of the concept of cruelty?

Another example could be found even within our own species. Take, for example, children--the reason children cannot stand on their own and need parental guidance is because they are not born knowing what is right and wrong, what is and isn't permissible in our society/culture, etc. Children, especially really young children, have little to no understanding of sophisticated things such as the concept of empathy, which is why it is often said that children can be incredibly cruel, and anyone who has stood as witness [or worse, victim] in a grade school playground can attest to this. Of course, children do not grow up to become killers or put babies in microwaves most times, and this is because they are taught that their actions caused pain, and thus are taught the concept of empathy. If a small child breaks the wings off insects [quite common], they are innocently cruel--they're not doing it to intentionally hurt the insect [even though to the rest of us this fact would be obvious], but they don't realize that their actions had this consequence because they lack empathy, foresight, and understanding of cause/effect, all sophisticated human concepts which have to be learned. Once it is explained to the child that this is not socially acceptable, the child will cease the behaviour as it seeks the approval of its group [most notably its parent].

Thus a mentally disturbed individual could be compared to a child in terms of reasoning/understanding, they would grasp neither the severity nor the atrociousness of their actions, and would not understand the concept of right/wrong at all, and would have no hope of doing so because they are not neurologically developed. This is the reason why an insanity defence is permissible in court, however, it is difficult to successfully claim as insanity has to be proven, either as temporary insanity [i.e. someone discovers his daughter was brutally raped/killed, in a fit or sorrow/rage, he goes after the attacker and kills him], or as insanity deriving from a mental disorder [I'm guessing they would look for a pervasive pattern of erratic choices/actions/thoughts, proper diagnoses would need to be made, history of interment at mental hospitals, etc. would exist].

I forgot to mention this last time around, but an amusing example comes to mind in the realm of literature. The character Lenny from John Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men is an adequate example of this lack of awareness over the pain he causes. It is quite obvious to the reader that something is not quite 'right' with Lenny, and even his friend George comments on that fact, and acts more as a guardian than a friend to him. Well, Lenny loves animals, but he kills them. He does not realize that his actions are hurting/terrifying/killing the animals, he thinks he is just 'playing' with them. He is unaware of his own force, and unwittingly kills mice, and a puppy, just by petting them. He even kills a person, Curley's wife, without meaning to. She invited him to stroke her hair, and again he did not realize the strength of his own hand, and when she yelled at him to stop, he panicked and put his hand over her mouth, shaking her and telling her to stop screaming [which never works lol]. Ultimately, he killed her by breaking her neck due to the shaking, but his was an innocent action--no pre-meditation, no "crime of passion," no negligence, because he was mentally challenged, arguably, and his actions against Curley's wife stemmed from panic at her screaming rather than malicious intent.
 
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Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

Mikage Souji said:
Not this particular case. That was another similar case, the one you mentioned about a woman having a fight with her boyfriend over paternity. They cited similar cases occurring, as I said earlier. The case you are referring to pertains to 31 year old China Arnold, whereas the case which made the news in this instance is that of 29 year old Ka Yang, and as of the time of my original post, the motive was not known.



This is not true at all. Right and wrong are learned concepts, not universal principles, nor the mandates of nature. In the natural world, things are more-or-less anarchic, with there existing no moral principles, and animals following their instincts, etc. It takes a more evolved intelligence to understand what is right and wrong, and from that understanding, choosing whether to accept the morals presented or reject them. Lower intelligences, by contrast, would not be capable of grasping such principles--take, for example, a cat. Cats are known for playing with their prey before they kill/eat it, an action which obviously terrifies the mouse and places it under much anxiety, and action which, if the cat were a human being, would land him in prison. However, the question becomes, can we hold this cat accountable for his cruelty if he does not know what is and isn't cruel, has no awareness of the pain his torment is causing the mouse, and has no understanding of the concept of cruelty?

Another example could be found even within our own species. Take, for example, children--the reason children cannot stand on their own and need parental guidance is because they are not born knowing what is right and wrong, what is and isn't permissible in our society/culture, etc. Children, especially really young children, have little to no understanding of sophisticated things such as the concept of empathy, which is why it is often said that children can be incredibly cruel, and anyone who has stood as witness [or worse, victim] in a grade school playground can attest to this. Of course, children do not grow up to become killers or put babies in microwaves most times, and this is because they are taught that their actions caused pain, and thus are taught the concept of empathy. If a small child breaks the wings off insects [quite common], they are innocently cruel--they're not doing it to intentionally hurt the insect [even though to the rest of us this fact would be obvious], but they don't realize that their actions had this consequence because they lack empathy, foresight, and understanding of cause/effect, all sophisticated human concepts which have to be learned. Once it is explained to the child that this is not socially acceptable, the child will cease the behaviour as it seeks the approval of its group [most notably its parent].

Thus a mentally disturbed individual could be compared to a child in terms of reasoning/understanding, they would grasp neither the severity nor the atrociousness of their actions, and would not understand the concept of right/wrong at all, and would have no hope of doing so because they are not neurologically developed. This is the reason why an insanity defence is permissible in court, however, it is difficult to successfully claim as insanity has to be proven, either as temporary insanity [i.e. someone discovers his daughter was brutally raped/killed, in a fit or sorrow/rage, he goes after the attacker and kills him], or as insanity deriving from a mental disorder [I'm guessing they would look for a pervasive pattern of erratic choices/actions/thoughts, proper diagnoses would need to be made, history of interment at mental hospitals, etc. would exist].

I forgot to mention this last time around, but an amusing example comes to mind in the realm of literature. The character Lenny from John Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men is an adequate example of this lack of awareness over the pain he causes. It is quite obvious to the reader that something is not quite 'right' with Lenny, and even his friend George comments on that fact, and acts more as a guardian than a friend to him. Well, Lenny loves animals, but he kills them. He does not realize that his actions are hurting/terrifying/killing the animals, he thinks he is just 'playing' with them. He is unaware of his own force, and unwittingly kills mice, and a puppy, just by petting them. He even kills a person, Curley's wife, without meaning to. She invited him to stroke her hair, and again he did not realize the strength of his own hand, and when she yelled at him to stop, he panicked and put his hand over her mouth, shaking her and telling her to stop screaming [which never works lol]. Ultimately, he killed her by breaking her neck due to the shaking, but his was an innocent action--no pre-meditation, no "crime of passion," no negligence, because he was mentally challenged, arguably, and his actions against Curley's wife stemmed from panic at her screaming rather than malicious intent.
Click to expand...

One question. Is it right or wrong to microwave a baby or is it a learned concept?
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

Mikage Souji said:
Not this particular case. That was another similar case, the one you mentioned about a woman having a fight with her boyfriend over paternity. They cited similar cases occurring, as I said earlier. The case you are referring to pertains to 31 year old China Arnold, whereas the case which made the news in this instance is that of 29 year old Ka Yang, and as of the time of my original post, the motive was not known.
Click to expand...

You are correct. Sorry, I misread.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

What a horrific way to die :( poor poor baby. What could make a mother, parent do that to their own child? The 'mentally unstable' excuse is old. Even animals don't behave like that.

This reminds me of other equally horrible cases of child abuse. Baby Brianna, and Nixzmary Brown.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

that poor baby...that is so sad..the pain that baby must of sufford. They should stick the mothers head in the microwave and see how she likes the same type of pain and torture she caused this child.
 
Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

Mikage Souji said:
I'm no expert, but what comes to mind is post-partum depression.
Click to expand...

Well, in this case (I'm not a doctor, can't diagnose; of course, we don't know all the details of this case) it wouldn't be post partum depression, but post-partum psychosis

Just from reading about this case though, I don't even believe she had postpartum psychosis....However, there have been reports of mother's suffering from PPS and have drowned their children....Things like that...

She's just a sick monster...

http://www.postpartum.net/Get-the-Facts/Postpartum-Psychosis.aspx
 
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Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
One question. Is it right or wrong to microwave a baby or is it a learned concept?
Click to expand...

We have to look at this in two ways. In terms of right/wrong as we presently recognize them [i.e. murder is wrong, murder of your own infant child is doubly wrong], it would be a learned concept [see examples of animals killing their own young]. However, in natural terms, shoving your own young in the microwave like a bag of popcorn is completely opposed to the preservation of the species/continuation of the individual's genes on to the next generation, so it would be going against the intended path of nature. In that case, it wouldn't be wrong [no such thing exists in the animal world] but rather deviant to the regular manner of functioning, which would include raising the young.


Rhilo said:
What a horrific way to die :( poor poor baby. What could make a mother, parent do that to their own child? The 'mentally unstable' excuse is old. Even animals don't behave like that.

This reminds me of other equally horrible cases of child abuse. Baby Brianna, and Nixzmary Brown.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Animals will kill their own young, and sometimes they will eat them too. Here is a fascinating article about animals exhibiting cruelty previously thought only to exist within the human species:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,912086,00.html

Ashtanga said:
And the interesting thing is that the woman could have prevented pregnancy. But she did not worry about it.... :doh:
Click to expand...

We don't know that for certain. We would deduce that if we assumed she got pregnant under common circumstances, but we have no proof that this is how her pregnancy came about. If she was mentally unstable and taken advantage of, she could have had no control over the pregnancy happening, and perhaps could not have afforded an abortion. There is obviously something severely wrong with her [putting kids in the microwave is not normal=red flag], but to what degree [specific diagnoses] and under what circumstances she came to have a child remain a mystery.


Arklove said:
Well, in this case (I'm not a doctor, can't diagnose; of course, we don't know all the details of this case) it wouldn't be post partum depression, but post-partum psychosis

Just from reading about this case though, I don't even believe she had postpartum psychosis....However, there have been reports of mother's suffering from PPS and have drowned their children....Things like that...

She's just a sick monster...

http://www.postpartum.net/Get-the-Facts/Postpartum-Psychosis.aspx
Click to expand...

Yes, it could be post-partum psychosis, but since the method of killing was so unorthodox, I was thinking the psychosis was already present before the child even came within the realm of possibility, and the post-partum depression triggered the latent psychosis in the woman [psychotic episodes can be triggered by depression, etc. in psychotic individuals], causing her to murder her child in such an atypical way.

arklove's article said:
The most significant risk factors for postpartum psychosis are a personal or family history of bipolar disorder, or a previous psychotic episode.
Click to expand...
 
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Re: Baby is Microwaved to Death

Mikage Souji said:
Yes, it could be post-partum psychosis, but since the method of killing was so unorthodox, I was thinking the psychosis was already present before the child even came within the realm of possibility, and the post-partum depression triggered the latent psychosis in the woman [psychotic episodes can be triggered by depression, etc. in psychotic individuals], causing her to murder her child in such an atypical way.
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly....It doesn't indicate anywhere if she had any type of hallucinations or delusions prompting her to do what she did.....So who knows...
 
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