UPDATE - #133: the whole thing may be illegal - Blanket, Prince, Paris first autographs up for sale

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Do you forget that on the Invicible album Prince was recorded saying some words at the end of the song "Lost Children?" Do you know the CD lists Prince in the credits?

Yes, I do forget, since I can't remember anyway Michael used that to promote Invincible :mello:


So you want the non-group singer to fund the museum, but to extract the group member just because he is deceased?
I don't know what is the general idea of the "museum" talk, but truth is: it's a museum, hotel, golf court, some kind of restaurant/club, and other entertaining facilities. This is a BIG business thing. If you want to build a mall, you go and get some investors, you don't go using some kids to get the money -_-

All that said, I agree with you about the words against MJ family. Sure he wouldn't be pleased at all, but truth is we are humans and we do make mistakes, especially when we see so many contradicting signals coming from them and when we have so many raw emotions, so many questions and so few (if any) answers. I deeply respect Rebbie, Janet and Katherine, the ones I know most about. I hardly know a thing about Marlon, Tito, Jacky.... but I have seen really confusing actions coming from LaToya, Joe, Jermain and Randy. I think they love Michael in ways we can't understand. And yes, some of their actions have been sad/wrong for us to see/live.
 
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Weird. I did not want to imply you were lying. It's just a peculiar thing to say. I don't think the estate has to approve anything regarding the kids' day to day life.

Gifts have been sent directly to Hayvenhurst before without any issue.

we don't know how the original discussion started...I don't see the need to ask @mjjnews because this is a non issue to me. It's hard to keep up with simultaneous discussions on twitter at time...But No way is the estate involved in raising these 3 kids or has control over them signing a belt or receiving gifts.

OK :). I'm sorry, I found the Feb tweets by searching on google but I can't find the April 4th tweets for some reason sorry.. but I def. saw them because I dm'd mjjnews about it, telling them we from mjjc sent gifts and were told they were accepted and I didn't think the estate would be involved in this kind of thing..

Anyway yes it's weird and I don't see how it can be true..

Anyhowww, back on topic..

I, too, fail to see any similarity between beltgate and Prince appearing on invincible.

.
Yes it's different, MJ didn't exactly put Prince on there to make the cd sell. That's the big difference.

In fact I didn't even know Prince was on it :)ph34r: am I a bad fan? lol) so he can't have advertised the fact very much, if at all.
 
i just don't understand one thing after Michaels passing ,why his fans are not allowed to give their opinion about family,good or bad.why some Jackson family fan say that Michael will not be happy about things we are saying about his family.why they think that he will be happy to see his kids are going through the mess. why they are bias about this.:thinking:
 
Michael may have mentioned the museum but there were never any major steps taken. Michael in all fairness said a lot of things which never happened for one reason or another. The Jacksons aren't stupid-they know that people will only go there because of Michael but like other people have said I'm not sure why this has to be a project funded by the estate. There are plenty of people thet could ask for donations for, what about the City of Gary, surely they could make a donation taking into account the money it will bring to the city in terms of tourism. Whether this museum actually happens though is a different story, the auction is still suspended.
 
Sorry just read the cnn, now I've seen the tmz article.. ooohh so there is lying goin on too.



katie - she did say that on twitter i saw it.. it's going to be pages and pages back but if there is a way to search on google i'll try and find it. i know it doesn't make sense :scratch: You can ask @mjjnews about this too, thats who she was telling.

iv been searching and found this.. This was in reply to someone called Silly Lilly who asked about this topic on feb 11..



http://twitter.com/sosodeaf/status/8943634814




This is what that person responded after that -

http://twitter.com/Silly_Lilly_/status/8988308291






I saw her say it on april 4th when jodigomes and mjjnews was telling fans they could send cards for paris. *shrug* i'll keep looking but it's hard to search past tweets, especially for people who tweet so much lol. but you can ask @mjjnews for confirmation if you want. i'm not lying honestly.

Katie was told this by someone who is close to the Jackson Family. And the person who was spreading this (Not Katie) was trying to discourage gifts from coming to the house because the other grandchildren were feeling left out. Imagine tons and tons of toys, cards and gifts coming to Hayvenhurst and not one of those gifts are for the other children... So someone very close to the Jackson clan was told to tell fans that he had to go through the estate - which was/is not necessarily true.

we don't know how the original discussion started...I don't see the need to ask @mjjnews because this is a non issue to me.

Exactly. Again, a lot of fans were told this information by someone very close to the Jackson Family. You're right it's a non issue.

Back on topic:

I wish the Jackson Family (Especially Katherine) all the love, peace, happiness and success this world offers. But what must be understood is that Michael worked very hard for his success. Michael worked up until the day he died and because of his work, he amassed billions of dollars and a career that is unmatched and will be umatched in entertainment for all time. He worked and worked and worked for it and yes it's okay for the Jackson's to claim some of it but make NO MISTAKE... Michael Jackson's legacy was his and his ALONE. And because of his death, it is now his children's legacy.

To use Michael's legacy and his children's signature on some belts ain't cool no matter how you slice it. If the belt contained the signatures of the Jackson brothers with their and Michael children? Okay ... I can go with that because the JACKSON FAMILY would be included. Other than that, this was nothing more than an attempt to use Michael's children to sell merchandise and Michael would have never approved. End of...

On a side note:


Michael was generous enough in his will/trust to make sure Katherine was taken care of for the rest of her life. He loved her so much, that he trusted her with his greatest achievement/accomplishment - his children.

Why did Michael leave his children to his mother?

Because he knew she wouldn't harm them. He knew she wouldn't exploit them for financial gain. He knew that she wouldn't make them do anything that they were not ready to do. He knew that she would love and protect them because she loves and protects all of her grandchildren.

I want to believe that her heart was in the right place in all of this. I really do.... But she is going to have to really watch those around her who may have an alternate agenda when it comes to Michael's children and that includes lawyers, doctors, so-called business men/women and even members of her own family. Be viligant, Ms. Katherine.
 
But she is going to have to really watch those around her who may have an alternate agenda when it comes to Michael's children and that includes lawyers, doctors, so-called business men/women and even members of her own family. Be viligant, Ms. Katherine.

Sorry, my ignorance, but I did not understand the part of doctors?
What agenda doctors may have in relation to the children?
 
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Ok Trish, I was a little in doubt about what you were saying in relation to doctors ... but now I understand your point ... very good your post, have a part in your post that I think differently, but I respect your point of view, your opinion.
 
Katie was told this by someone who is close to the Jackson Family. And the person who was spreading this (Not Katie) was trying to discourage gifts from coming to the house because the other grandchildren were feeling left out. Imagine tons and tons of toys, cards and gifts coming to Hayvenhurst and not one of those gifts are for the other children... So someone very close to the Jackson clan was told to tell fans that he had to go through the estate - which was/is not necessarily true.



Exactly. Again, a lot of fans were told this information by someone very close to the Jackson Family. You're right it's a non issue.

Back on topic:

I wish the Jackson Family (Especially Katherine) all the love, peace, happiness and success this world offers. But what must be understood is that Michael worked very hard for his success. Michael worked up until the day he died and because of his work, he amassed billions of dollars and a career that is unmatched and will be umatched in entertainment for all time. He worked and worked and worked for it and yes it's okay for the Jackson's to claim some of it but make NO MISTAKE... Michael Jackson's legacy was his and his ALONE. And because of his death, it is now his children's legacy. Donte, Randy Jr and Genevieve are adults

To use Michael's legacy and his children's signature on some belts ain't cool no matter how you slice it. If the belt contained the signatures of the Jackson brothers with their and Michael children? Okay ... I can go with that because the JACKSON FAMILY would be included. Other than that, this was nothing more than an attempt to use Michael's children to sell merchandise and Michael would have never approved. End of...

On a side note:


Michael was generous enough in his will/trust to make sure Katherine was taken care of for the rest of her life. He loved her so much, that he trusted her with his greatest achievement/accomplishment - his children.

Why did Michael leave his children to his mother?

Because he knew she wouldn't harm them. He knew she wouldn't exploit them for financial gain. He knew that she wouldn't make them do anything that they were not ready to do. He knew that she would love and protect them because she loves and protects all of her grandchildren.

I want to believe that her heart was in the right place in all of this. I really do.... But she is going to have to really watch those around her who may have an alternate agenda when it comes to Michael's children and that includes lawyers, doctors, so-called business men/women and even members of her own family. Be viligant, Ms. Katherine.
The cousins feeling left out I think all of them maybe with the exception of Jermajesty are at the age to understand what's going on, they know whose children they are, who their parents are and that their uncle was at another level, besides at the age all of the Alejandra children are they should be more than capable to understand that this extra attention's bound to come when ur Michael Jackson's child and have lost ur father just few months ago (like it was the case with MJ's children earlier this year), like I said with the exception of Jermajesty all of them are old enough (even Jaffar) and well capable to understand this much, they ain't no little children no more.

Who could he have left them to if not his mother Trish? He had no other option but to leave them to Katherine. You, I and basically all of us even those who choose to play ignorant know that a lot has been going on, a lot of which we only know very little .. , a lot of decisions were made, a lot has happened that would anger Michael beyond no doubt. A lot has been said and done by people that would disappoint Michael especially regarding his children. When outsiders act despicable it's hard to deal with but well they are outsiders they are bound to act despicable, but when the ones that ur supposedly share the same blood with act despicable and go crazy over money, sell out, lie, slander, trash, conspire, etc that is what's really worse, as ur not supposed to do that no matter how much money is involved. Michael didn't stop spinning since the day he was buried :(
 
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Who could he have left them to if not his mother Trish? He had no other option but to leave them to Katherine. You, I and basically all of us even those who choose to play ignorant know that a lot has been going on, a lot of which we only know very little .. , a lot of decisions were made, a lot has happened that would anger Michael beyond no doubt. A lot has been said and done by people that would disappoint Michael especially regarding his children. When outsiders act despicable it's hard to deal with but well they are outsiders they are bound to act despicable, but when the ones that ur supposedly share the same blood with act despicable and go crazy over money, sell out, lie, slander, trash, conspire, etc that is what's really worse, as ur not supposed to do that no matter how much money is involved. Michael didn't stop spinning since the day he was buried :(

:no: I know... ***sigh***
 
I wish the Jackson Family (Especially Katherine) all the love, peace, happiness and success this world offers. But what must be understood is that Michael worked very hard for his success. Michael worked up until the day he died and because of his work, he amassed billions of dollars and a career that is unmatched and will be umatched in entertainment for all time. He worked and worked and worked for it and yes it's okay for the Jackson's to claim some of it but make NO MISTAKE... Michael Jackson's legacy was his and his ALONE. And because of his death, it is now his children's legacy.

To use Michael's legacy and his children's signature on some belts ain't cool no matter how you slice it. If the belt contained the signatures of the Jackson brothers with their and Michael children? Okay ... I can go with that because the JACKSON FAMILY would be included. Other than that, this was nothing more than an attempt to use Michael's children to sell merchandise and Michael would have never approved. End of...

On a side note:


Michael was generous enough in his will/trust to make sure Katherine was taken care of for the rest of her life. He loved her so much, that he trusted her with his greatest achievement/accomplishment - his children.

Why did Michael leave his children to his mother?

Because he knew she wouldn't harm them. He knew she wouldn't exploit them for financial gain. He knew that she wouldn't make them do anything that they were not ready to do. He knew that she would love and protect them because she loves and protects all of her grandchildren.

I want to believe that her heart was in the right place in all of this. I really do.... But she is going to have to really watch those around her who may have an alternate agenda when it comes to Michael's children and that includes lawyers, doctors, so-called business men/women and even members of her own family. Be viligant, Ms. Katherine.

I think I love U.

LOL

Seriously now. Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
 
I, too, fail to see any similarity between beltgate and Prince appearing on invincible.

.

It's not about similarity it's about interpretation.

MJ said he wanted his kids to have a private life, someone would then ask, if you want privacy, why record them on your album?

It's the same thing with what people are saying of Katherine, if the kid's privacy is paramount, why get them to sign the belt?

here is my main issue, I know getting kids to sign a belt doesn't seem like a good idea, but people have to pause and put themselves in Katherine's shoes. She must have been inundated with so many requests to do an interview, to promote certain things.

She definitely has turned down a lot of stuff from all around the world.

Then someone suggests a simple thing such as a belt to comemorate their father and the advantage that kids don't have to appear in public and the added advantage that profits will not go to one Jackson member but to a worthwhile project that celebrates not only Michael's career but the Jackson5 and their roots.

She evaluates it and thinks, of all things put before her, this is the most sensible.

Then next day guess what, executors release a statement accussing her of exploiting the kids by saying they could never get MJ kids to do something like that, some media attack her, fans are on her neck that she's no angel, while others go as far as saying emancipation.

What's wrong here is that the executors did not ask their lawyers to meet with her and discuss why she went ahead with the deal and highlight any of their concerns, but felt it important to release a statement putting her down.

Oh, but when they want to promote deals like Cirque de Soleil, they get her to issue a statement seconding it.

If so, they should have released a statement condeming the kids appearance at the Grammys then, because Grammys got ratings and profit by annnouncing beforehand MJ kids would appear to pick up the award and Katherine was persuaded to let them do so.

Or was that because the kids appearance would help promote "This Is It" the project executors were in charge of that was being released on DVD at that time, which Lionel happened to mention on the same show and for which Sony bought advertising space?

We all know Joe has all kinds of plans, no one knows that better than Katherine. And she has definitely blocked many of his ideas both while Michael was alive and even after his passing.

But let's step back and look at this rationally rather than trashing someone without knowing how the issue of the belt was evaluated and the decision was arrived at.

Because you know what, the future albums the executors will release will at some point contain contributions from the kids. The albums will make profits and the executors will pocket some of that.

At what point then will we define "exploitation"
Is it when Jacksons involve the kids in a project?
Or when the executors involve them in a project, as i have already shown above with their appearance synching with the promotion of "This Is It" release?

And also, a family is a family. Michael does not owe his family anything. But we should remember that at the This Is It premiere, Michael's brothers were there free of charge to help promote it. They were urged to appear and they walked the red carpet.

Imagine the picture of an MJ premire and not a single Jackson turns up. It wouldn't look nice. I know some fans couldn't care less, but for the wider marketing in people's mindset, the "family support" picture does matter, that's why they were urged to come, walk the red carpet and speak to the media.

They have a shared history. Some fans only like Michael, some only like Jackson5, others like when all are together united and there are several variations in between.

Michael had to balance this while he was alive otherwise he would long have stopped paying tribute to his brothers while on stage, and his mother has to do the same too now.

Some may not like how she tried to balance and may not like the Jacksons museum idea, that's all well and good. But don't go trashing her.

And i wish the executors in future would raise their concerns in private first of all before putting her down, otherwise it creates a fighting match where statements will be released in future by the other party putting them down when something goes amiss, which in the end doesn't help anyone.
 
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If it is true that permission was not sought to use Micahel's trademark images, and the adults in this scenario knew that permission should have been sought and chose not to seek it, then they knowingly let Michael's children sign something that could be legally challenged.

Whether you support or agree with the Estate or not, they have the legal standing and should respected until such time as they do not. Follow the legal process and thus avoid conflict. Simple.
 
If it is true that permission was not sought to use Micahel's trademark images, and the adults in this scenario knew that permission should have been sought and chose not to seek it, then they knowingly let Michael's children sign something that could be legally challenged.

Whether you support or agree with the Estate or not, they have the legal standing and should respected until such time as they do not. Follow the legal process and thus avoid conflict. Simple.
Exactly.. not seeking seeking permission was done purposely the people involved know they have no rights to use any MJ related trademarks, the people in question also know that they shouldn't have used Michael's kids signature to promote the selling of these items, as their dead son would have never condoned such kind of behavior. Despite knowing all these things they purposely acted this way.
 
From what I saw over the years, Michael took pains for his children to have a life that was not tied to being Michael Jackson's children (a part of his brand and therefore a commodity). And maybe, after years of feeling like a cash cow, Michael Jackson wanted Prince, Paris and Blanket to be just that - children. Not be used for commercial or material gain!

When they are older and decide that they want to pursue careers in the public sphere, then their autographs would have value in and of themselves. At this stage of their lives this is inappropriate.

The appropriate thing to do would be to get permission to use Michael's image, create a one-of-a-kind belt and leave Michael's children out of it.
 
It's not about similarity it's about interpretation.

MJ said he wanted his kids to have a private life, someone would then ask, if you want privacy, why record them on your album?
Hopefully you have a clue of how ridiculous ur sounding, you've made it a mission to test folks nerves didn't ya? lol
The only sentence the child said on that song was ''where are the lovely flowers'' he didn't pimp out the album on this little spoken sentence of his son, He IS their father and had the right to decide to do whatever he wanted. How exactly did he use his son when it was HIS name, fame, image that made people buy the album?! Apart from fans 90% of the world doesn't even know that the voice who said ''where are the lovely flowers'' was that of his son's. Katherine and Joseph however know very well that making those kids sign those belts would make em sell. They KNEW that nobody would buy no belts with Joseph and Katherine signing them, apart from few luny tunes. They knew they couldn't get their dead son to sigh em, as he's dead so what's/who is the next best thing his children, the kids were asked to sign in order to sell more belts end of the story u can ignore this obvious fact as much as u want it still doesn't change.
 
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Just a reminder that the purpose of the belt is not just as a tribute to Michael but to raise money for the Jackson family museum planned for Gary, Indiana.

This is not for a charity, the Jackson Family Museum is an enterprise planned for development in Gary. It will not be a Michael Jackson Museum, but will focus on the entire family... parents, all of Michael's siblings, grandkids, everybody. Even though it will be mainly Michael's fans who support the project, it is not going to be the "Neverland" type of place to go and feel close to him. The focus will be on his family.

It will cost a lot of money to build this museum so expect more money raising endeavors.
 
The Jackson are a very large family full of adults.
At least one, Janet Jackson, is very wealthy.
They can deal with her.
If the "Jacksons" want a museum. Then they should just raise the money themselves and stop exploiting Michael Jackson's children.
It is not the responsibility of Michael 's children to fund a
"Jackson Family Museum".
Shame on Katherine Jackson if she thinks they should.
 
and still the only people discussing the belt are fans...if we let if go, so will they
 
Great post! Thank you for that. Some fans think that they are so special so they can criticize his mother with no problem. MJ kids are actually learning from this example that money can be used for some good reasons or for something bad. Katherine gives them a good life lesson. God bless her.
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
and who are you or anyone else fit to determine Mrs.Jackson's lack of Judgement.< thats not a question but a statement!
spin It around however you want... Bottom line Is as I said Michael would not be happy with no one messing with his mother for whatever freaking reason they conjure up,nor his kids on any level !
Being a fan gives no special privilage to constantly criticize/character attack michael's relatives and most especially his Mother cause you disagree with a precieved behavior on their part !
you best believe If any real harm came at the hands of another to Michael's children that said person'/s will pay the price!
That fierce protection extends to mama Jackson as well so back It up off of her !
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
Hopefully you have a clue of how ridiculous ur sounding, you've made it a mission to test folks nerves didn't ya? lol
The only sentence the child said on that song was ''where are the lovely flowers'' he didn't pimp out the album on this little spoken sentence of his son, He IS their father and had the right to decide to do whatever he wanted. How exactly did he use his son when it was HIS name, fame, image that made people buy the album?! Apart from fans 90% of the world doesn't even know that the voice who said ''where are the lovely flowers'' was that of his son's. Katherine and Joseph however know very well that making those kids sign those belts would make em sell. They KNEW that nobody would buy no belts with Joseph and Katherine signing them, apart from few luny tunes. They knew they couldn't get their dead son to sigh em, as he's dead so what's/who is the next best thing his children, the kids were asked to sign in order to sell more belts end of the story u can ignore this obvious fact as much as u want it still doesn't change.

:coffee: :shock:
 
Great post! Thank you for that. Some fans think that they are so special so they can criticize his mother with no problem. MJ kids are actually learning from this example that money can be used for some good reasons or for something bad. Katherine gives them a good life lesson. God bless her.

Michael taught them that lesson himself all of their lives and did it without having to sell their autographs or anything like that. Not saying Katherine would mean harm to her grandchildren. I just think that she is in a difficult position with many trying to influence her - and she loves ALL of her children and grandchildren and would want what's best for all of them - whereas when Michael was here, his concern was what was best for his children only - which is as it should have been. It just makes me even more sad since his death seeing so many things concerning his children that he would have not wanted done. But that's how it is and will continue to be. I only pray that his influence on them and the upbringing he gave them will see them through to being happy, well adjusted adults. I worry most about Blanket because he is so young. Only time will tell.
 
From what I saw over the years, Michael took pains for his children to have a life that was not tied to being Michael Jackson's children (a part of his brand and therefore a commodity). And maybe, after years of feeling like a cash cow, Michael Jackson wanted Prince, Paris and Blanket to be just that - children. Not be used for commercial or material gain!

When they are older and decide that they want to pursue careers in the public sphere, then their autographs would have value in and of themselves. At this stage of their lives this is inappropriate.

The appropriate thing to do would be to get permission to use Michael's image, create a one-of-a-kind belt and leave Michael's children out of it.

It's interesting to me that the family defenders don't ever respond to these type of posts.
 
From what I saw over the years, Michael took pains for his children to have a life that was not tied to being Michael Jackson's children (a part of his brand and therefore a commodity). And maybe, after years of feeling like a cash cow, Michael Jackson wanted Prince, Paris and Blanket to be just that - children. Not be used for commercial or material gain!

When they are older and decide that they want to pursue careers in the public sphere, then their autographs would have value in and of themselves. At this stage of their lives this is inappropriate.

The appropriate thing to do would be to get permission to use Michael's image, create a one-of-a-kind belt and leave Michael's children out of it.

You have a great point Nancii. People have brought up Lisa allowing Riley to model when she was just 14. Now I doubt Michael would allow Paris when she turned 14 to model. He went to such lengths to protect his kids and he was ridiculed and mocked for it. Yeah we know what the kids looked like before Michael passed as they didn't wear masks all the time but that isn't the point. They are kids and Michael wanted them to have the childhood he never had. Whether Prince wants to direct, Paris wants to sing etc they should come to that decision when they are adults and on their own terms. Whatever they did their father would be proud of them. But let them have their father's wish. Let them have their childhood.
 
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