Understanding Joe Jackson

[ForeverTheKing]

I seem to be in a minority group of people that actually like Joe Jackson. Im not gonna say that I agree with everything that he does but I definitely don't HATE him like alot of MJ fans do. I actually love Joesph and his relationship with Michael is one of the reasons why I was able to connect with Michael and his music in my childhood. I know it sounds strange so let me go head and tell my story...

My father is EXACTLY like Joe Jackson. I was beat as a child up until my father left the family when i was 15 (he cheated on my mother and had another child outside the marriage..GO FIGURE!)My father was very strict with me.I was not allowed to call him dad or daddy...it was either Steve or Sir. I remember not being able to do alot of things that other kids my age were doing or not being able to stay outside and play when other kids were outside. On top of all that I cant remember not one time that my father told me he loved me...NEVER. No hugs, no kisses, no NOTHING. Growing up I hated my father and I had always wanted my mother to divorce him and move on to someone better. Sound like Papa Joe? Sure it does...but I think my father was actually a bit worse

With Michael's passing Joe has done alot of things that are coming across to everyone as if he doesn't care about his son. I think that is so far from the truth. Im sure Joe loves his son very much..but if he's anything like my father, theres not a chance in hell that he's gonna let anyone see him in a weak emotional state. Its just not gonna happen. It may not sound right to some of you but thats just the way it is. Ive never seen any emotion from my father...it's not that he doesn't have any..he just shows it in different ways. And im sure that Joesph showed his children that he loved them in different ways as well. Having a parent like my father and Joesph is difficult...but once you get older you do grow to appreciate it all. I turned out to be a well round, caring and loving individual. Never did any drugs, never been in any trouble, didn't have any children before graduating highschool, I work hard, im successful and i have MORALS. They may be old fashioned but I have them. It may be a southern thing because like Joe Jackson my father was born and raised in the south. Me and my father don't really have the best relationship today..but I still love him because he is my father.

I thought yall might want to hear from experience of someone who also had a father like Joe. I have always related to MJ when it came to his relationship with Joe because I feel the EXACT same way about my father lol. Alot of stuff that Joe does reminds me so much of my father its actually kinda funny to me lol

 

[OldSchoolMJFan]

I "get" Joe as well. I'm from the South too, as well as from the same culture as Michael and his family so I understand. Like Janet said her dad is from another era and she "loves him to pieces". She doesn't agree with everything he does but she gets him. I know he loved Michael and loves all of his children because he always stands by them. Michael said the Jackson mantra is "family is everything".

I'm sure will keep saying and doing cringe worthy things. But he's 80 and he is not about to change and once you reach 40 you just don't care what others think because you become comfortable in your own skin. Besides, Janet said he is stubborn. Sounds like all of my uncles and all the old men in my community when I grew up. It is what it is.

 

[ForeverTheKing]

I "get" Joe as well. I'm from the South too, as well as from the same culture as Michael and his family so I understand. Like Janet said her dad is from another era and she "loves him to pieces". She doesn't agree with everything he does but she gets him. I know he loved Michael and loves all of his children because he always stands by them. Michael said the Jackson mantra is "family is everything".

I'm sure will keep saying and doing cringe worthy things. But he's 80 and he is not about to change and once you reach 40 you just don't care what others think because you become comfortable in your own skin. Besides, Janet said he is stubborn. Sounds like all of my uncles and all the old men in my community when I grew up. It is what it is.

thank you

 

[xthunderx2]

ell because I promised Trish in the NEW MJJC Rules thread that I wouldnt talk trash about Joe ...all I can say is no comment!!!........and just for the record....I dont get Joe at all.

 

[ForeverTheKing]

ell because I promised Trish in the NEW MJJC Rules thread that I wouldnt talk trash about Joe ...all I can say is no comment!!!........and just for the record....I dont get Joe at all.

I guess its something that u have to deal with that type of person to understand

 

[Ramona122003]

I will post this:

My dad is from the south and he grew up old school, meaning spanking and I do not mean the couple slaps on the butt kind.

When me and my brother we growing up we got our fair share of spanking with a belt and he was pretty brutal. He would go minutes and if you try to protect yourself he would just hit your hand, even if you beg. Even today I still cringe when I see a belt or a child getting hit by a parent, even when it is justified.

Now that I said that, my dad had said for years, long before Michael admitted it himself, that what Joe did to those kid was abusive. Not just physically, but mentally too. This is coming from a man who believe in cooperate punishment, so I believe him. My father and my family live in Gary and the Jackson's story is known well here . Although they would never say it to the media, every knew what Joe did to his kids and it was not southern love.

As for Joe loving his kids. I will respect the rules and keep some of my more spicier opinion to myself. However, I will say this. I have some serious questions about when a person loves another when they promote themselves not long after their child's death, threaten to sue that child's estate if he does not get an allowance, and continue to belittle a child by saying that they would be nothing without him.

 

[xthunderx2]

I seem to be in a minority group of people that actually like Joe Jackson. Im not gonna say that I agree with everything that he does but I definitely don't HATE him like alot of MJ fans do. I actually love Joesph and his relationship with Michael is one of the reasons why I was able to connect with Michael and his music in my childhood. I know it sounds strange so let me go head and tell my story...

My father is EXACTLY like Joe Jackson. I was beat as a child up until my father left the family when i was 15 (he cheated on my mother and had another child outside the marriage..GO FIGURE!)My father was very strict with me.I was not allowed to call him dad or daddy...it was either Steve or Sir. I remember not being able to do alot of things that other kids my age were doing or not being able to stay outside and play when other kids were outside. On top of all that I cant remember not one time that my father told me he loved me...NEVER. No hugs, no kisses, no NOTHING. Growing up I hated my father and I had always wanted my mother to divorce him and move on to someone better. Sound like Papa Joe? Sure it does...but I think my father was actually a bit worse

With Michael's passing Joe has done alot of things that are coming across to everyone as if he doesn't care about his son. I think that is so far from the truth. Im sure Joe loves his son very much..but if he's anything like my father, theres not a chance in hell that he's gonna let anyone see him in a weak emotional state. Its just not gonna happen. It may not sound right to some of you but thats just the way it is. Ive never seen any emotion from my father...it's not that he doesn't have any..he just shows it in different ways. And im sure that Joesph showed his children that he loved them in different ways as well. Having a parent like my father and Joesph is difficult...but once you get older you do grow to appreciate it all. I turned out to be a well round, caring and loving individual. Never did any drugs, never been in any trouble, didn't have any children before graduating highschool, I work hard, im successful and i have MORALS. They may be old fashioned but I have them. It may be a southern thing because like Joe Jackson my father was born and raised in the south. Me and my father don't really have the best relationship today..but I still love him because he is my father.

I thought yall might want to hear from experience of someone who also had a father like Joe. I have always related to MJ when it came to his relationship with Joe because I feel the EXACT same way about my father lol. Alot of stuff that Joe does reminds me so much of my father its actually kinda funny to me lol

I am sure that your father didnt have you in bars and strip clubs at 5 years old performing for a bunch of drunks and skanky chics......This is only one of the differences between Joe and your dad........I am sorry this is why I should of stayed out of this thread.....no disrespect intented towards you....again it is Joe who brings out the ugly in my attitude...............................also I am glad you turned out to be such a good person.....I am sorry about your childhood..if anything it made you a stronger adult...IMHO

 

[ElleBella]

I agree with you 100%. And I don't like that I do get him, I think it's just something some people would get. I remember being younger and saying I hated my dad and I couldn't wait for him to die I would be called names, could never please him. And when I messed up, it was rubbed in my face for the longest time. When I was younger and it was his weekend, if he came, I would hide because I just didn't want to go. Now that I'm older, I understand him more, it was the way he was raised and it was all he knew. It's one of those things where I have to say, I love him because he is my father, but I don't like him as a person. But, I'm grateful because I have kids now, and it makes me want to be everything he wasn't.

 

[ForeverTheKing]

I am sure that your father didnt have you in bars and strip clubs at 5 years old performing for a bunch of drunks and skanky chics......This is only one of the differences between Joe and your dad........I am sorry this is why I should of stayed out of this thread.....no disrespect intented towards you....again it is Joe who brings out the ugly in my attitude...............................also I am glad you turned out to be such a good person.....I am sorry about your childhood..if anything it made you a stronger adult...IMHO

lol well of course i wasnt in strip clubs i wasnt a child entertainer (tho i am very shy when it comes to sex)..but i do call my father by his first name or sir and it has been like that my whole life...being abused as a child really does mess with you growing up ESPECIALLY my relationshio with men...again i want to say that im in no way condoning everything Joe has done im just saying that ive been there and i know what its like to be abused physically and mentally by a parent and that even though u go through it is possible to still have love for that person. I've been choked, slapped, whipped, pushed and anything else u can possibly think of by my father...still love him though

 

[xthunderx2]

lol well of course i wasnt in strip clubs i wasnt a child entertainer (tho i am very shy when it comes to sex)..but i do call my father by his first name or sir and it has been like that my whole life...being abused as a child real does mess with you growing up ESPECIALLY my relationshio with men...again i want to say that im in no way condoning everything Joe has done im just saying that ive been there and i know what its like to be abused physically and mentally by a parent and that even though u go through it is possible to still have love for that person. I've been choked, slapped, whipped, pushed and anything else u can possibly think of by my father...still love him though

I do sympathize with you....I know exactly what you mean...but the abuser was my mom.....same thing beatings...whippings....even today mom still tries to mentally abuse me..well I am 42 years old and I refuse to let it happen......I do still love her though BECAUSE she is my mom..so I do understand where you are coming from ....I am sure Michael felt the same way.

 

[xthunderx2]

I agree with you 100%. And I don't like that I do get him, I think it's just something some people would get. I remember being younger and saying I hated my dad and I couldn't wait for him to die I would be called names, could never please him. And when I messed up, it was rubbed in my face for the longest time. When I was younger and it was his weekend, if he came, I would hide because I just didn't want to go. Now that I'm older, I understand him more, it was the way he was raised and it was all he knew. It's one of those things where I have to say, I love him because he is my father, but I don't like him as a person. But, I'm grateful because I have kids now, and it makes me want to be everything he wasn't.

I understand your post ...100%.....we always want to be better than our parents were.....I refuse to hit my children......someone has to break the cycle of abuse...weather it is physical or mental.....it is all wrong to do to a child.......I have made the same excuse for my mother.....It is all she knew and she did the best she knew how.....well it is the best excuse I have for her so....I have to go with it for my own state of mind.....the mind needs something to help it except difficult situations....I wish you great luck with your own children..

 

[Memefan]

ell because I promised Trish in the NEW MJJC Rules thread that I wouldnt talk trash about Joe ...all I can say is no comment!!!........and just for the record....I dont get Joe at all.

I will post this:

My dad is from the south and he grew up old school, meaning spanking and I do not mean the couple slaps on the butt kind.

When me and my brother we growing up we got our fair share of spanking with a belt and he was pretty brutal. He would go minutes and if you try to protect yourself he would just hit your hand, even if you beg. Even today I still cringe when I see a belt or a child getting hit by a parent, even when it is justified.

Now that I said that, my dad had said for years, long before Michael admitted it himself, that what Joe did to those kid was abusive. Not just physically, but mentally too. This is coming from a man who believe in cooperate punishment, so I believe him. My father and my family live in Gary and the Jackson's story is known well here . Although they would never say it to the media, every knew what Joe did to his kids and it was not southern love.

As for Joe loving his kids. I will respect the rules and keep some of my more spicier opinion to myself. However, I will say this. I have some serious questions about when a person loves another when they promote themselves not long after their child's death, threaten to sue that child's estate if he does not get an allowance, and continue to belittle a child by saying that they would be nothing without him.

I like both your comments.

i too promise to try to keep things civil...so all I will say is I DO NOT GET JOE and I DO NOT WANT TO GET HIM EITHER.

being ABUSIVE IS NOT OLD SCHOOL. IT'S JUST THAT...A-B-U-S-E.

 

[ForeverTheKing]

I understand your post ...100%.....we always want to be better than our parents were.....I refuse to hit my children......someone has to break the cycle of abuse...weather it is physical or mental.....it is all wrong to do to a child.......I have made the same excuse for my mother.....It is all she knew and she did the best she knew how.....well it is the best excuse I have for her so....I have to go with it for my own state of mind.....the mind needs something to help it except difficult situations....I wish you great luck with your own children..

and guess when my father decided to make the announcement that he was leaving the family....CHRISTMAS!?!?!!? Hate Christmas to this day...

 

[Memefan]

I agree with you 100%. And I don't like that I do get him, I think it's just something some people would get. I remember being younger and saying I hated my dad and I couldn't wait for him to die I would be called names, could never please him. And when I messed up, it was rubbed in my face for the longest time. When I was younger and it was his weekend, if he came, I would hide because I just didn't want to go. Now that I'm older, I understand him more, it was the way he was raised and it was all he knew. It's one of those things where I have to say, I love him because he is my father, but I don't like him as a person. But, I'm grateful because I have kids now, and it makes me want to be everything he wasn't.

Based on this, Michael would also abuse his children. Which we know is not the case.

In the Schmuley tapes, he emphatically denied your theory that the abused often become the abuser.

Michael did not think so...neither do I.

 

[xthunderx2]

and guess when my father decided to make the announcement that he was leaving the family....CHRISTMAS!?!?!!? Hate Christmas to this day...

ooohhhh...I am so sorry he had to pick such a beautiful day to break up your family.....it is not easy.....maybe ..in the future you will be able to see the day as something more than something sad...Maybe you will find a reason to see happiness in the day,,I dont know if you are a Christian at all...or even a catholic.....doesnt really matter...all that matter to me is that you find a happy reason for the day....hugs to you...:hug:

 

[ForeverTheKing]

Based on this, Michael would also abuse his children. Which we know is not the case.

In the Schmuley tapes, he emphatically denied your theory that the abused often become the abuser.

Michael did not think so...neither do I.

im not sure thats what she meant by that statement...but ill wait for her to respond lol

 

[Moulin Rouge]

i sorta understand joe, i got beat if i did something wrong as a child and like michael said you feel hatred AT THAT MOMENT and maybe for a day or so but then u get over it, it doesn't help that michael was very sensitive so things like that stuck with him. michael had it harder than me cause i was allowed to have a childhood and i was only beat if i did something VERY bad. my mother showed me love unlike joe. i wish he would have showed michael even a lil more love, a hug or a pat on the back here and there could have made a difference.

joe was raising his kids the way he was raised and the way he knew how. so yeah he was old school. old school borderlines abusive sometimes but i don't think it's out of bad intentions.

joe did some mean things like making fun of michael which can make someone insecure especially since michael was in the spotlight. he should not have had them in clubs or have been so hard on them but katherine should have stepped in if it was to that extreme, i doubt she was totally in the dark. he didn't treat the kids as well as he should have and he really thinks he did nothing wrong which is a shame. i know he loved michael and the family cause if he didn't he would have left them and let them hang in the streets and get into trouble.

michael said he forgave his father and loved him but people seem to think he hated him. i know he didn't leave him money in the will but that doesn't mean he didn't care about him. i don't agree with what joe does but i'm not going to bash him hard cause what's the point. he's hurting inside but he's not showing it. he doesn't want to seem vulnerable, he feels like he always needs to be this big rock. i bet somedays it hits him hard when he's alone.

and people who call joe the worst father need to get out more, there are fathers who kill ther families or sell their kids for prositution and other bad stuff or just abandon them. joe is far from the worst but being in the spotlight doesn't help.

the jackson came from a working class family, and being black during and before the civil rights era was extremely hard. joe worked multiple jobs to provide for 11 people in a 2 bedroom house..talk about TOUGH. he wanted a better future for his kids. he pushed them to be their best. back then discipline was different, people weren't as soft with those things. you could hit ur child outside and nothing happened, now the police and child services is called.

i don't agree with this upbringing because i believe u can punish a child without being so physical.

oh and yes joe is greedy, no excuse but as janet said... that's joseph

 

[The One.]

With Michael's passing Joe has done alot of things that are coming across to everyone as if he doesn't care about his son. I think that is so far from the truth. Im sure Joe loves his son very much..but if he's anything like my father, theres not a chance in hell that he's gonna let anyone see him in a weak emotional state. Its just not gonna happen. It may not sound right to some of you but thats just the way it is. Ive never seen any emotion from my father...it's not that he doesn't have any..he just shows it in different ways. And im sure that Joesph showed his children that he loved them in different ways as well. Having a parent like my father and Joesph is difficult...but once you get older you do grow to appreciate it all. I turned out to be a well round, caring and loving individual. Never did any drugs, never been in any trouble, didn't have any children before graduating highschool, I work hard, im successful and i have MORALS. They may be old fashioned but I have them. It may be a southern thing because like Joe Jackson my father was born and raised in the south. Me and my father don't really have the best relationship today..but I still love him because he is my father.

I actually kind of understand Joe, too. I haven't experienced anything near what you have, or the others who have told about their childhood but I still don't hate Joe for what he did. Sure he did some things wrong but I don't HATE him for that.

 

[xo_lola_xo]

Joe messed Michael up and for that I don't like him. I don't hate him, I just don't like him and what he's doing with suing the estate is just sick.

Poor Mike spent his entire life trying to get over it.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

i can understand how u raise someone and being a disicplinarian (sp) but not how u can tell them to only call u joseph instead of dad. only calling when they want money (mjs words) and acting like he did after the 25th. only excuse is maybe hes going abit insenile

 

[helena22]

I've heard the same thing as some of yall said from many other people who grew up with strict fathers who don't show emotions. But, nothing can change my position.

Being a strict disciplinarian and being abusive must be differentiated. There is a line that must be drawn between the two.

I grew up with many similar experiences to Michael's. Even some of his specific reactions caused from the fear for his father. Also grew up in this country where physical punishment is one of the usual forms of education. I know why and where some people try to blurr the line based on their experiences and that's where "I get Joe" talk starts. I tried a few times to change their minds, but I don't think I can nor will do that now. I'm just too tired.


I simply refuse to look at Joe Jackson as one of those strict, oldschool fathers. I truly understand the meaning of the bolded part.

 

[MJJ7777]

Wow. This thread is actually civilized lol. Last time I said something in Joe's favor...I got stoned to death. I guess the storm died down,a little.

All I have to say is that some people will never understand because they have chosen not to, not because they can't empathize, they can empathize but they are too scared to do so. It's easy to call Joe stubborn but it isn't easy to see that you are very stubborn when it comes to understanding Joe.

 

[helena22]

and people who call joe the worst father need to get out more, there are fathers who kill ther families or sell their kids for prositution and other bad stuff or just abandon them. joe is far from the worst but being in the spotlight doesn't help.

Of course, there are such extreme cases. The kind of abuse you see on news reports, in movies, and stuff. The kind of abuse that make everyone scream and curse out of disgust.

I hate to see those being used to make what Joe Jackson did look any less serious.

Wow. This thread is actually civilized lol. Last time I said something in Joe's favor...I got stoned to death. I guess the storm died down,a little.

All I have to say is that some people will never understand because they have chosen not to, not because they can't empathize, they can empathize but they are too scared to do so. It's easy to call Joe stubborn but it isn't easy to see that you are very stubborn when it comes to understanding Joe.

Scared? Oh hell naw. I ain't scared. Joe Jackson should not be a classic example of those oldschool, tough fathers some of yall described, becuz being that type of father does not always mean abusive father.

Scared? Nah. Let me put it like this: Some people are too scared to call a spade a spade and hesitate to use the word "abuse" just becuz Joe Jackson happens to be Michael Jackson's father and they somehow wanna create some kind of happy ending (saying "Oh Michael forgave him" or "Joe loves his son") and feel comfort when the actual picture is grim.


Remember, Michael was working as a breadwinner and didn't even have time to get into trouble as a kid, but Joe Jackson beat him as if he did something seriously wrong.

 

[#1MJstan]

I get Joe, and well like someone said earlier, he is 80yrs old and not about to change.. He is what he is, like him or not... my guess that majority of you all don't and that is your right. I personally don't dislike the man, he has his faults just like everyone else. He and his wife raised their 9 kids how they saw fit. I may not agree with some of the things they may have done, but hell if they were to look into how my parents raised me, they may not like something... Some families are into whippings others are into timeouts, or some other types of punishments... to each their own...
Janet said the other night that she loves her dad and may cringe at some of the things he does, but hell I cringe at some of the things my mother does (she is a very outspoken person at times)..
I personally feel that both parents should be at fault for anything that happened to MJ when he was young, but Mr. Jackson gets the brunt of it since he is out in the forefront most of the time.

All we can do is hope that the children learned to not cross that fine like like their parents, meaning you can discipline your children with whippings or whatever the choice, but not go overboard with it, to the point your kids become scared of you.

 

[snowhite]

Joe is a man with sadistic tendencies...I don't like people with sadistic tendencies...
poor Michael all the torture he was put through I blame Katherine for always putting her husband first and then consider her children's well-being screw than religion that was no excuse to stay with a man like him. I know people will criticize me but I don't like it when people put their religion above anything else that's being fanatical
and don't give me that "discipline" crap

 

[Hachi]

I get Joe, and well like someone said earlier, he is 80yrs old and not about to change.. He is what he is, like him or not... my guess that majority of you all don't and that is your right. I personally don't dislike the man, he has his faults just like everyone else. He and his wife raised their 9 kids how they saw fit. I may not agree with some of the things they may have done, but hell if they were to look into how my parents raised me, they may not like something... Some families are into whippings others are into timeouts, or some other types of punishments... to each their own...
Janet said the other night that she loves her dad and may cringe at some of the things he does, but hell I cringe at some of the things my mother does (she is a very outspoken person at times)..
I personally feel that both parents should be at fault for anything that happened to MJ when he was young, but Mr. Jackson gets the brunt of it since he is out in the forefront most of the time.

All we can do is hope that the children learned to not cross that fine like like their parents, meaning you can discipline your children with whippings or whatever the choice, but not go overboard with it, to the point your kids become scared of you.

You just perfectly articulated everything i wanted to say Orie! :agree:

Joe is a man with sadistic tendencies...I don't like people with sadistic tendencies...
poor Michael all the torture he was put through I blame Katherine for always putting her husband first and then consider her children's well-being screw than religion that was no excuse to stay with a man like him. I know people will criticize me but I don't like it when people put their religion above anything else that's being fanatical
and don't give me that "discipline" crap

What do mean by Katherine putting her religion ahead of her children?

 

[snowhite]

what I mean is that she chose not to leave Joe because of her religion
MJ told the rabbi that they used to beg her to divorce him when they were little but she didn't want to hear anything about it

 

[Ramona122003]

what I mean is that she chose not to leave Joe because of her religion
MJ told the rabbi that they used to beg her to divorce him when they were little but she didn't want to hear anything about it

Snow, I understand where you are coming from and I have similar feelings, however it is not as simple as you are making it out to be.

Mrs. Jackson grew up in an era and a religion that taught women were their to serve their husband. That they were to remain loyal to them always, no matter what he did. So even if he beats you, rapes you, cheat on you, and belittle you, you stick by your man. This mindset, unfortunately, was very common for women, especially, African-American women. After you have been taught this your entire life, you cannot just switch if off.

Think of the Color Purple when you see sever spousal abuse, but the girl stood by her husband. It also been proven by studies that woman who are abused still defend their husband even when they go so far that they put them in the hospital. It usually take years of therapy or something sever to happen for most women to find the courage to either stand up to their husband or leave. So, we shouldn't be too hard on Mrs. Jackson, given her background.

In all fairness, it seems she has grown some courage in her later years. Such as kicking Joe out of the house and cutting his legs with the whole will thing. However, she will never public admit what happen in that house, because of the way she was raised.

Mrs. Jackson is a classic case of a abuse woman, so I cannot complete blame her for what happen. She was a product of an environment that allowed such things to happen.

 

[Hachi]

what I mean is that she chose not to leave Joe because of her religion
MJ told the rabbi that they used to beg her to divorce him when they were little but she didn't want to hear anything about it

Its really not that simple though Snow, Katherine had full right to leave Joe if she wanted to and she has filed for divorce in the past but later retracted it. So simply putting the blame on her religion isn't really fair because there are so many different factors (many of which we don't know) that led her to make the decision to stay with Joe.

 

[pamarella]

Well I won't be bad mouthing Joe Jackson anymore. Last Thursday, Janet Jackson point blank backed up her father. That woman said nothing bad about that man. I believe the rest of the Jackson kids feel the same way. Who I am to talk bad about Joe Jackson when his own kids don't seem to have a problem with him.