Tommy Mottola talks about Michael Jackson in his book Hitmaker - Comprehensive summary

[Petrarose]

^^We must not forget that at around the time of TII he had several projects he was looking into & planning to work on. I am thinking of the notes about making big money, so maybe TII was not the only project to recoup financial loses. Also, when we talk about debt, we have to remember that several projects he was working on or about to work on had to be cancelled due to some legal problem or the other, e.g., Dangerous tour, that film project where he was about to buy the production company, movie with Speilberg. These were money making projects, so it was expected that some more money would be coming in, but no one could have foreseen the allegations. You are expecting to work on projects that will increase your empire & all of a sudden legal problems arise which cause backers to run & projects to stop, what do you do? Getting a loan on your assets seem the most likely thing to do.

144,000 you know I always think of Donald Trump when people bring up Michael's debt. At one time no bank would give Donald any more money because he had extended himself & some of this projects were not making money as he thought they would. I remember he had to have meetings too, sort of like the one with Sony & Michael that the media like to talk about. Anyway most likely Donald reached some good terms with his bankers & he overcame this problem & continued to make money & borrow money to make more money. This is the same thing Michael did. Only in Michael's case several unexpected legal situations occurred which messed up his plans & interfered with his cash flow, plus 9/11, plus having incompetent unethical staff.

I think it is wrong when looking at debt to see it as simply Michael overspending & getting loans against a catalog. You have to take into consideration the plans in place to bring money in & existing money making projects, what happened to those plans & existing projects & why, the solution that was used & the quality of his staff.

 

[144000]

The lead singer of 70's supergroup KC and The Sunshine Band was actually CONVICTED of child molestation. Only one report was written about it. Then, it was never heard from again. His music is still being played, voraciously, to this day, and he's still alive. We never hear anything about his financial situation. Just because something is never heard, doesn't mean it isn't true. Michael has always been held to a different double standard. So I question the idea of hearing and believing, so easily, rampant media predictions of somebody's financial doom, without founded proof that anything negative actually happened.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

If you think about all the backroom deals that go on in this world, Swiss Bank accounts, Cayman Island tax paradise etc. Just think of your regular swindler that somehow gets a loan for got knows how many hundreds of millions - and suddenly the promised airport is nothing but wasteland - yet Michael Jackson deals with crummy Bank of America?? I know that the usual explanation is that nobody else wanting to lend him anything anymore but something doesn't add up. If I were Michael I sure as heck would start to wonder if the usual people throwing millions and millions at far less worthy investment promises - I too would suddenly think that some backroom society decided to put me on the 'black list' - and I say that as someone who thinks most conspiracy theory aren't worth half a paid website... but nothing is as easy as running someone financially into the ground as a little tweak in your 'credit worthiness'. Happens on the smaller scale every single day in the US.

Sometimes I think that Michael's empire was approached from a small business standpoint (yes I know who qualifies as 'small business'...) and dealing with especially crummy folks at times - yet his empire was run by seemingly particular inept folks who at times seemed to even lack in English!! Yet Michael's empire was so much bigger.
I have no doubt the 1% does not have to deal with half the inept tax preparing agencies etc Michael dealt with.

See, that's the thing, yes-man or not, Michael was not 'jerk enough' compared to those who have some real money. He could have hid absolutely everything away in some tax paradise and not bother with the catalogue. Open a bank and get in with the big guys and you'll make more in overnight credits etc. Maybe that's the 'non jerk' Michael who's still a business man but had much more 'humane' goals i.e., the catalogue, looking at Marvel. Something dealing with the arts.
He could have gotten himself a few oil rigs and call it a day. He didn't.

 

[ivy]

You still speculated that he as 'a grown man' might have made bad decisions. So I am paying attention.
Donald Trump was bankrupt once..I never heard any negative things about him.

you fail comprehending at hypothetical scenarios. In a post I talked about two possibilities and in a post that you refer to with "might", it's unfair to act like I said it like a fact. Actually given that I later on stated "I don't put the responsibility on Michael". So what's your problem?

fyi - donald trump was bankrupt 4 times. and there are several reasons why you didn't necessarily hear bad things about him. It was only one of his companies and not Donald Trump personally that filed bankruptcy. So for a man that has multiple entities , one of them - casinos- going bankrupt wasn't a major thing. Furthermore Trump's personal assets aren't at jeopardy at all. So even if he lost his casinos, he would be the still rich man who did business with his remaining successful businesses.

 

[8701girl]

^probably because the people he had were not good business people who knew what to do, like Branca. They were probably people who claimed they could do great things, but were really more interested in getting something from the relationship with Michael & the deals that were made

Excatly! so many of these co called advisors and "friends" made a promise to michael just so they could use michael and not for good reasons. Alost of these people imo did those promises with the intent to ruin michael -remember its just like michael sang in the song money "?

Then watch the ones
With the biggest smiles
The idle jabbers...Cuz they're the backstabbers​

 

[Petrarose]

^^Great post Pace, and don't forget that after Michael got loans at a very very high interest rate, a new business exec comes in & is able to drop this amount to a very very low rate in a few weeks. Now what does this tell us!!!

 

[144000]

you fail comprehending at hypothetical scenarios. In a post I talked about two possibilities and in a post that you refer to with "might", it's unfair to act like I said it like a fact. Actually given that I later on stated "I don't put the responsibility on Michael". So what's your problem?

fyi - donald trump was bankrupt 4 times. and there are several reasons why you didn't necessarily hear bad things about him. It was only one of his companies and not Donald Trump personally that filed bankruptcy. So for a man that has multiple entities , one of them - casinos- going bankrupt wasn't a major thing. Furthermore Trump's personal assets aren't at jeopardy at all. So even if he lost his casinos, he would be the still rich man who did business with his remaining successful businesses.

What is there to understand if it's hypothetical? You're trying to justify something that doesn't exist.
And you keep seperating people other than Michael from their entities. That's the double standard.
If it's associated with Michael, it's Michael. If it's associated with Trump, it's not necessarily Trump.
I'll give you this much though, though your tone tends to be negative toward Michael in a financial sense, your use of the words 'might' as opposed to 'fact', I can't prove against. But the heavy leaning that you tend to do towards Michael's 'financial troubles' , in your tone alone, makes it easy to be blind to your 'mights' as opposed to facts.
Hey..until next time...maybe you and I oughta have more discussion fun.

 

[8701girl]

The lead singer of 70's supergroup KC and The Sunshine Band was actually CONVICTED of child molestation. Only one report was written about it.

Didnt know that

 

[144000]

^^Great post Pace, and don't forget that after Michael got loans at a very very high interest rate, a new business exec comes in & is able to drop this amount to a very very low rate in a few weeks. Now what does this tell us!!!

Thank you. How come all these great posts are without the thank you button?

 

[ivy]

^^Great post Pace, and don't forget that after Michael got loans at a very very high interest rate, a new business exec comes in & is able to drop this amount to a very very low rate in a few weeks. Now what does this tell us!!!

mmm I don't think it necessarily shows an incompetency. It's all about the credit scores and revenue streams.

With continually increasing debt amounts, collateral on the assets, lack of steady cash flow, missing payments and so on would have hurt Michael's credit score, make him a high risk client that would mean a really high interest rates.

However after his death that the increased revenues and even long term deals in place (such as $250 M deal with Sony) that bring guaranteed revenue and that Estate being under probate - that they are legally obligated to pat the debt first, would have made MJ Estate a less risky client hence lower the interest rates.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

See, that's the problem with these credit monitoring bureaus. With someone who had that many lawsuits thrown at him for supposed lack of service for alleged services rendered - with the regular person it sometimes takes ONE disputed item and you're TOAST. Or even just wrongly entered things.

Now imagine being Michael and every dispute with a US vendor ends up on your history - man, I just wanna run away preemptively.

Or go away for 3 years - say, abroad. You'll have a hard time getting a cell phone contract. And I wonder if Michael's cash policy also didn't help. Credit is only established when you keep slaving away at your 'allowed' number of credit items. So, a perpetual amount of debt is the only way in the US to be credit worthy. (yes, I know, he took out loans - but weren't those his companies?)
Pay everything at once and soon you practically don't exist as a private person. (asks the foreigner in the US! paying your phone bill on time does NOTHING at establish credit worthiness. One messed up system.) And if it's always under a company? You, the private person will be in trouble.

Or maybe I just got it wrong. I often wonder if Michael was viewed ("KOP") as having the opportunities of a whole royal family - with the only difference being that there's no parliament handing you over the millions including the bodyguards you need. When times are great - sure, everyone is yesmanning. When times are bad I think Michael dealt with similar problems as many people - just on such a magnified scale that it's next to impossible to stem that tide.
And I have no doubt that in good times people said "Sure, buy a few more million dollar urns." As long as they all got their cuts, no problems. But again, as Ivy said, that's less Michael but people being more than happy to look out for themselves and then take off. Meanwhile Michael takes the crap in public when even the most basic thing like filing your tax return gets messed up.

 

[144000]

Didnt know that

yeah. actually, one of two lead singers of the same band. Other band members didn't dispute it. One of them only had to make one statement distancing themselves, and it wasn't an issue anymore. Try that with Michael, and we never hear the end of it. If we didn't have the internet, I would never be able to find this hidden- in- the- back style article.
If this band got the Michael treatment, in the media, they'd be out of business, financially, and otherwise.
http://askville.amazon.com/member-k...sting-boys/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=67370453

 

[ivy]

though your tone tends to be negative toward Michael in a financial sense

My tone tends to be negative towards Michael? Seriously? I think you are blind to what I'm writing , let me demonstrate

I don't put the responsibility on Michael

I'm thinking this is either a problem of incompetent people around Michael (such as how his taxes weren't paid for 3 years) and/or people not talking/advising in Michael's best interest.

I didn't say he wasn't a businessman, he was and a very good one at that.

to me says incompetent advisers around him - especially in the later years.

I'm actually blaming the incompetent advisers for Michael's financial problems but like I said it seems like you turned blind. but it doesn't matter. I'm used to you disagreeing with me just for the fun of it.

 

[Justthefacts]

The lead singer of KC and the sunshine band Harry Wayne Casey did not get arrested for child molestation. It was his former bass player Rick Finch.

 

[144000]

My tone tends to be negative towards Michael? Seriously? I think you are blind to what I'm writing , let me demonstrate



I'm actually blaming the incompetent advisers for Michael's financial problems but like I said it seems like you turned blind. but it doesn't matter. I'm used to you disagreeing with me just for the fun of it.

i don't disagree with you just for the fun of it. It took this back and forth for me to see you not blaming Michael, for the first time, and making a point of making sure I see it. So there. I'm acknowledging it. You are as subjective toward me as you say I am toward you. I don't have emotion invested in my responses toward you unless you go out of your way to get personal with me. I've thanked you for posts as recently as Michael starting the Superbowl trend post. You've never thanked me for any posts of mine, so this is not about me being subjective toward you just for the hell of it.
You still say that MJ had financial problems and you say Trump did not. There is no dispute for the 'fun of it' with you, there. You give Trump this air of being on solid ground, despite the bankruptcies, and you give this air of Michael having been in supposed trouble despite his Lack of bankruptcies. I don't deal with the hypothetical. I deal with the facts...what actually is. Michael had no bankruptcies. Trump did.

 

[8701girl]

yeah. actually, one of two lead singers of the same band. Other band members didn't dispute it. One of them only had to make one statement distancing themselves, and it wasn't an issue anymore. Try that with Michael, and we never hear the end of it. If we didn't have the internet, I would never be able to find this hidden- in- the- back style article.
If this band got the Michael treatment, in the media, they'd be out of business, financially, and otherwise.
http://askville.amazon.com/member-k...sting-boys/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=67370453

Its just so unafir so they treated michael with so much hate and anger and everybody else gets a free pass...its just not right

 

[144000]

The lead singer of KC and the sunshine band Harry Wayne Casey did not get arrested for child molestation. It was his former bass player Rick Finch.

Casey admits that this band member had an integral part in some of the band's biggest hits. It can be disputed who pulled more weight in the band as a lead. Casey has the power to dispute it himself, because the media is not making a big to do about it. But saying this member played such an integral part in the biggest hits is saying something. Casey wasn't the only singer, and he admits this guy was integral in the biggest hits. Perhaps I should have named names, but, considering everything written, I don't see much difference, except only one guy founded the band. But there are many instances where a founding member is not the lead singer. The point is, if this was a Michael Jackson band, there would be no focus on the other members, whatsoever, considering how Michael was treated and how this band is being treated, now.
Check out especially the first paragraph here. Is there anything more powerful than a confession? What would have happened to Michael if he confessed to such things? I didn't even know he confessed when I posted the first article. It was worth my 'making a mistake' to make my point. You don't rampantly hear about child molestation with KC and this band, the way you always heard and still hear about Michael and child molestation, in the media.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/25/kc-and-sunshine-bands-ric_n_512731.html

 

[144000]

^^We must not forget that at around the time of TII he had several projects he was looking into & planning to work on. I am thinking of the notes about making big money, so maybe TII was not the only project to recoup financial loses. Also, when we talk about debt, we have to remember that several projects he was working on or about to work on had to be cancelled due to some legal problem or the other, e.g., Dangerous tour, that film project where he was about to buy the production company, movie with Speilberg. These were money making projects, so it was expected that some more money would be coming in, but no one could have foreseen the allegations. You are expecting to work on projects that will increase your empire & all of a sudden legal problems arise which cause backers to run & projects to stop, what do you do? Getting a loan on your assets seem the most likely thing to do.

144,000 you know I always think of Donald Trump when people bring up Michael's debt. At one time no bank would give Donald any more money because he had extended himself & some of this projects were not making money as he thought they would. I remember he had to have meetings too, sort of like the one with Sony & Michael that the media like to talk about. Anyway most likely Donald reached some good terms with his bankers & he overcame this problem & continued to make money & borrow money to make more money. This is the same thing Michael did. Only in Michael's case several unexpected legal situations occurred which messed up his plans & interfered with his cash flow, plus 9/11, plus having incompetent unethical staff.

I think it is wrong when looking at debt to see it as simply Michael overspending & getting loans against a catalog. You have to take into consideration the plans in place to bring money in & existing money making projects, what happened to those plans & existing projects & why, the solution that was used & the quality of his staff.

I understand what you are conveying to me, and I appreciate it, but, to me there was more respect for Trump than for Michael. Michael being disrespected was for no reason. He has been sued since he was 14 years old for frivolous reasons. But the only legal situation that stands out for me with Michael is child molestation charges. What were they started by? Tabloid media rumors. Whatever may have happened with people surrounding Michael, the blatant disrespect for Michael in the media and by many people in his business dealings, simply not respecting him is in no way reflecting on his solid financial standing, based on his business wizardry.

And, while I might guess that 911 could stop any artist from possibly touring, as you brought up, his surrounding people could have suggested other creative ideas for MJ, but I still believe 911 couldn't adversely affect MJ Invincible sales. If anything, people need good music in bad times, even only on an album or a download. So that couldn't affect his solid financial standing. But, you and I agree..one thing Trump didn't have to endure that Michael had to endure...made up B.S. about child molestation. Still MJ's finances withstood that, and people trying to interrupt the cashflow..still..no bankruptcies. I know Michael knew/expressed, himself, people tried to interrupt his cashflow as stated in the song 'This Time Around'. But he stated they tried. They didn't succeed.

 

[jamba]

So how is it certain that there was 200M debt in 2001? When he died the debt was supposedly 400M--I am just wondering if the 200M figure is accurate. Michael made money as a musician and performer, so if Invincible didn't sell, this was a problem. I keep going back to why no freakin promotion of that album? If we look at the sales figures, the accusations hurt big time with the public, the DJ's, etc. He was dropped by Pepsi--no more endorsements. Big legal bills, high interest rates on loans. It would seem the last 3 years were the worst when he was wandering around from place to place with no fixed hime, and counting on 'his people' (Raymone B.) to do the income taxes. Then we have to consider he is supporting a large family--the Jacksons--all that time. Every time there was a deal, a lot of people got a cut. "Everybody wanting a piece of Michael Jackson." Who got rich--the media, the lawyers, the bankers, and no doubt TM--off of him.

 

[bluetopez]

so I guess the question is who are we blaming here?

was it due to lack of advice and/or wrong advice that Michael had that major debt that put his catalog at risk from creditors?

or

was it Michael's own grown decisions put the catalog at jeopardy?

Well My post that was quoted basically was asking the same thing! It was what I was getting at. Obviously I wasn't clear enough? I was talking about my observation by some. Which is that TII also involves financial matters as well and I found it interesting the blame for that one in comparison to the Sony/TM mess by some are very different.

My opinion is that it's a mix of both not just one, in both matters. They gave advice on certain things whether it benefited him or not. But, MJ in the end made the final say depending if it was in his control though. Because it's obvious that certain people he worked with were greedy and deliberately screwed him while others waited to take the bait.

 

[AliCat]

I didn't know that there was a requirement that we have to agree. We can agree to disagree but do you seriously think that Michael knew sales estimation methods or break even analysis or risk statistics? Do you think that he knew how to do book keeping, journal entries or file his own taxes? Do you think that he knew how to balance a checkbook or personally followed all of his bank account balances or 30+ entities profit and losses?

Pay attention : I didn't say he wasn't a businessman, he was and a very good one at that. But realistically I don't expect Michael to know all of those details about finance, accounting and so on. and that to me says incompetent advisers around him - especially in the later years.

Michael should have hired a Comptroller and every six months did an audit of his own net worth, his company, etc. I can't help but wonder if doing an audit, with an independent consulting company, may have proved its worth in gold.

-Michael Jackson fires business managers
Spokeman says more management changes are expected

updated 6/27/2006 9:05:16 PM ET

LOS ANGELES — Michael Jackson has fired his business managers, has hired a New York firm to oversee his financial affairs and is moving to Europe, his spokeswoman said Tuesday.
His longtime spokeswoman, Raymone K. Bain, said in a statement that she has been named general manager of the new Michael Jackson Co., which will replace Jackson's MJJ Productions.

The pop star has been living in Bahrain since he was acquitted of child molestation charges a year ago.
Jackson has severed ties with his Bahraini lawyers and his longtime accountants and business managers, Bernstein, Fox, Whitman, Goldman & Sloan.

Bain said he has hired L. Londell McMillan and The McMillan firm, "known for business restructurings and turnarounds."
Other management changes are expected and will be announced later, Bain said.

Jackson had been rumored to be on the verge of bankruptcy for some time. But in April his Bahraini lawyers announced that he had restructured his finances in a deal with Sony Corp.

The company shares ownership of his valuable music catalog, which includes the Beatles' hits.
Jackson recently had to shutter his elaborate Neverland ranch in Santa Ynez because of unpaid salaries and insurance fees.

The change in management, which Bain called "the first of a sweeping restructuring of his personal and business affairs," is an apparent attempt by Jackson to salvage his finances.
The singer will maintain a house in Bahrain, Bain told The Associated Press in a phone interview.

He decided to move to Europe for access to music industry figures, she said.
"He is very serious about his music," she said.

"When you are a creative person and the creative juices are flowing again and you're about to embark on new projects, you want to make sure your organization is running smoothly."
Jackson was in Ireland on Tuesday "on personal business," Bain said in her statement.

Jackson's chaotic financial dealings will be put in the spotlight in a Santa Monica courtroom this week in a lawsuit over whether he owes $3.8 million to a former business associate.
F. Marc Schaffel claims he is owed for unrepaid loans and expenses and salary.

Schaffel's attorney, Howard King, portrayed the 47-year-old singer as an incurable spendthrift who sought financial guidance from advisers, then ignored it.
Jackson claims Schaffel defrauded him and hid facts of his shady past.

Jackson is planning public appearances and performances again, Bain said. "He is reviewing numerous offers to tour musically, which he plans to embark upon within the next several months," the statement said.

She said he expects to release a new album next year.

http://www.today.com/id/13581552/si...jackson-fires-business-managers/#.URCbLh1jtI4

 

[ivy]

So how is it certain that there was 200M debt in 2001? When he died the debt was supposedly 400M--I am just wondering if the 200M figure is accurate.

According to Prescient lawsuit the loan on Sony/ ATV was $200 Million - around October 2004.

On October 2004 a $72.5 M loan was taken on MIJAC.

A total of $272.5 Million in late October 2004.

April 2006 these loans were refinanced by a $300 M loan - $27.5 M more than what it was in 2004

Around this time (2004-2006) Michael also got a personal loan on Neverland for $30 Million.

That brings it to $330 Million by 2006.

After Michael's death you need to add around $36 Million in production costs to AEG and around $35 Million in creditor claims.

All together it makes $400 Million by 2009.

(The first set of numbers are mentioned in Prescient lawsuit in 2006 by Michael's lawyers and the after death numbers can be seen in Estate accounting)

Note 1: There were also smaller items - such as mortgage on Hayvenhurst and so on.

Note 2: I'm thinking Michael had paid back $6.5 Million of Neverland loan and did not pay $23.5 Million. They were about to foreclose on Neverland and that's why he did the deal with Colony Capital for $23.5 Million

Note 3: If he planned a world tour - like Jermaine Jackson and Randy Phillips claimed - and was to earn $500 Million from it - like Phillips said- Michael could have paid all of his debt ($330 M) and even make profit. Even a 50 show run with the estimated $100 M - as estimated by AEG- would have paid a significant 1/3 of Michael's debt.

Note 4: Obviously these numbers do not take account any payment done any reduction on the debts. Similarly it doesn't account for any interest. Assuming the same payment rate of $6.5 M out of $30 M - %22 percent. That would mean around $66 M would be paid from the $300 M bringing it to $234 Million. add that to the Neverland outstanding balance of $23.5 then the debt before MJ's death would be around $258 Million. Addition of TII costs and creditor costs you would come to more than $300 M in debt.

 

[144000]

what's interesting is that Michael's catalogue contains a monster number of hits. i wasn't even thinking of trying to count the largesse of his music and other classics from other artists in those catalogues..music ranging from so many many years, from so many genres..at least thousands of songs, if not more, helping to make Sony the monster company that it is. The never ending playing of those songs on radio alone, which is never ceasing, all over this monster-sized world, could erase anybody's debt, if the income alone was used to pay the debts. The fact that it never gets reported whether income from licensing of those nearly countless numbers of hits possibly being used to pay debts never gets mentioned in media is interesting to me, to say the least, coupled with the fact that the supersonic speed in which those debts are now being reported to have been taken care of, compared to let's say, the fact that it was never reported whether or not the bankruptcy of a much lesser superstar group, such as TLC, was resolved or not, truly interests me, and one of their members died, too. I'm saying that TLC is much lesser, yet they were still superstar..and Michael surely made much more money than they did, and used it much more wisely. These are the kinds of things which lead me to believe Michael was on solid footing, financially, and everybody at Sony and in media knew it, but didn't want to give him credit for it, so they wanted to wait till after he died, then give somebody else credit for it, like media does now for so few other positive things, such as starting the piping up of interest in SuperBowl halftime trend. Once again, I thank MsMo for putting up that thread, which seems to have disappeared into the bowels of this forum. Also, honorable mention of the Worldwide chart performance thread in Michaelmania, which was quite busy marking constant sales of MJ albums right up to 2008.

Oh yeah...and shout out to something the media probably overlooked and wishes I didn't remember. It was a ONE time media mention. There was a movie that was released in 2002, one year after the release of Invincible. The movie was called 'About A Boy' starring Hugh Grant. In it, there was a line that Hugh's character said..I'm paraphrasing...'Michael Jackson makes money in his sleep.' Obviously, the movie didn't get a lot of hype.
Surely, Michael didn't make decisions to spend, without knowing that his bread was buttered. He always paid attention to the performance of his works on charts. I remember seeing pics of him reading Billboard magazine. He displayed enough wisdom for me to know he never spent beyond his means, and that he wouldn't spend anything that he wasn't sure to get back. Mottola was simply envious. Could have been the gushing his then wife, Thalia did about Michael..I don't know, although that powerful possibility is easy to believe And along with Mottola, the media was envious, too.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

First of all I have never heard of a great accomplishment in history that didn't have a risk/reward equation. The phrases 'no pain no gain' and the song line 'the one afraid of dying never seems to live' aren't for nothing.

Nobody gets a reward without risk.

Secondly, I believe Michael's paranoia about his catalogue was justified for reasons other than business.

Thirdly, Michael's track record would be considered Kingly if he was Steve Jobs, Elvis, or any respected executive, other than Michael, and people wouldn't mind going forward with them.

:agree:EXACTLY! Great post.


:clapping:

 

[AliCat]

Jackson’s Mijac Music, the entity that contains the copyrights to the songs he wrote over the course of his career.
a $75 million loan he had taken out against the catalog.

the $4.1 million mortgage on the Jackson family estate in Encino, Calif.

Smaller debts to individuals have been renegotiated and resolved, including an agreement with Landis, who had alleged that Jackson still owed him $2.3 million in 2009.

$280 million, by FORBES’ estimate remains on Jackson’s 50% stake in the Sony/ATV publishing catalog.

Jackson had gone into default on the $24.5 million he owes on the 2,500-acre spread in Santa Barbara County.

-Michael borrowed against his own catalog, the Beatles catalog and Neverland. These were huge debts at the time of Michael's death, which is why he went back to work doing the AEG Shows that never transpired.

It was estimated by Tom Barrack before Michael died, that Michael was in debt at $500M.

Michael did use his 50% stake in the Beatles catalog as collateral and this made him vulnerable with Tommy Mottola. At the end of the day, it wasn't personal, it was just business.

 

[144000]

nobody knows the integral incidentals involved in business between human beings who usually have personal relationships. people are really sensitive to other people, and are personally entwined with other people. there's never a straight up business approach unless you're the subject of envy and not the one doing the envying. I'm witnessing one now, with the Los Angeles Lakers, and an 11 time championship winning coach who is the boyfriend of the daughter of the owner of the team and brother in law of the heir apparent, and the subject of much envy, and a player who won a championship, who is the subject of envy by the NBA commisioner, as he is being removed from a game, instead of being fined, for getting physical with another player, when there have been players, in the past, who have been fined for the same thing. The Lakers are in a glamorous town and have won the second most amount of championships in NBA history. The sister and brother, within the immediate ownership family are competing to have their fingerprints all over significant decisions involving the Lakers team. Any person who says they're not viscerally affected by the actions of another person that they are personally involved with, right down to business decisions is saying they're better than everybody else. Michael never had a reason to envy anybody, but he was the subject of much envy, including by Mottolla. And nobody knows the real reason why TII tour was planned. And MJ was quoted as saying to fans, that he had 'concertizing' ideas in store for them. That word doesn't necessarily mean just touring. And, at first, he was very reluctant to do more than ten shows in one place at the time of that press conference. That doesn't sound like what, alone, it would take to erase the ever changing exhorbitant numbers people keep coming up with to describe this debt. Plus I notice when the word 'estimate' appears in somebody's post.

Michael didn't sound like he was worried about his finances, according to what I posted above. And he was extremely aware of where his money was going, and how much of it was going there. He was an excellent businessman. He stated in that interview with Bashit, that MJ knew that MJ made BILLIONS for Sony. Yes, that's with a B. Where is it in the rulebook, that says, that just because someone is a music artist, that they don't know about finance?

It's not 'just business at the end of the day' when Mottolla says that an album 'just isn't very good' for no reason at all.

And a 'man' like Mottolla who calls himself the 'high road' man, but waits till MJ dies, in order to come up with a tell all book for money that personally continues the slander parade that has been aimed at Michael, all his life, is not only a liar and a deceiver, but a total non businessman. He is greedy for money..I'll give you that.

and on another note: a lot of people have been accusing Michael Jackson of having a lot of 'yes' people around him. Mottolla is the first accuser, and a lot of people agreed with him.
Michael has been the best selling artist for more than thirty years. To me, that deserves a lot of yes answers to anything he said. I am not one to argue with success. That's just good business. Some confuse being a yes person with being non objective, at the wrong times..and some confuse objectivity with subjective negativity, a lot. I'd like to thank a friend on here for reminding me of that.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

According to Prescient lawsuit the loan on Sony/ ATV was $200 Million - around October 2004.

On October 2004 a $72.5 M loan was taken on MIJAC.

A total of $272.5 Million in late October 2004.

April 2006 these loans were refinanced by a $300 M loan - $27.5 M more than what it was in 2004

Around this time (2004-2006) Michael also got a personal loan on Neverland for $30 Million.

That brings it to $330 Million by 2006.

After Michael's death you need to add around $36 Million in production costs to AEG and around $35 Million in creditor claims.

All together it makes $400 Million by 2009.

Ivy - what about mj's investment debt for his 50% share of the various additions to the sony/atv catalgoue? In 02 they added a $137m catalogue and in 07 the famous music catalogue priced $370m, as well as other bits and pieces. Mj's contribution to these additions comes to more than $250m. I remember in one of branca's interviews last yr sometime he was differentiating between personal debt and debt against the catalogue and meant to ask if this is what he meant. Are these figures incorporated into the above figures as it makes the $350m debt at death (minus the aeg deal) less crazy looking. Thing is i can't see where 07's purchase of famous music at $187m would go.

 

[AliCat]

...And speaking of bankruptcies, Joseph and Katherine filed for bankruptcy in 1999:

Michael Jackson‘s parents have just recently come through their extremely complex and much-challenged bankruptcy proceeding. The couple filed for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy on March 1, 1999, and although their debts were “discharged” on June 13, 2000, there were so many adversarial motions from creditors, there were still filings coming in as of May 22, 2008, according to court documents obtained by RadarOnline.com.

In their initial petition, the Jacksons listed their assets in the $100,000 – $500,000 range and their estimated debts in the $10 – $50 million range.

Among the debts: $34,91602 was owed on a 1994 Mercedes Benz, $60,130.94 on a 1998 Land Rover, and $36,368.29 on a Land Rover Discovery. $32,561.06 was owed on personal income taxes to the State of California, and they were in to the IRS for $117,871.76. They owed $18 million on one lawsuit judgment and $4 million on another. They owned legal fees to several attorneys including Brian Oxman, who still works with them.

One interesting side note: the couple claimed “month to month tenancy only” on their residence in Encino, CA which they point out is owned by their son. http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...rine-jacksons-multimillion-dollar-bankruptcy/

I'm wondering since Michael liked cars so much, did his parents take a fall for Michael in filing this Chapter 7 bankruptcy? Tommy Mottola would've kept a watchful eye on Michael's financial matters, anyway to make Michael feel vulnerable with his finances and thus further alienation towards promoting, "Invincible."

 

[144000]

Obviously, Michael's parents love cars, too. And I know you didn't say it, but their bankruptcy is no reflection on Michael. In fact, Michael knew that his parents were bad with money..hence his will. Parents are responsible for their own matters, no matter how rich their offspring are. If offspring decide to reciprocate good upbringing, that's a choice, not an obligation. Well..an obligation if good upbringing and leading to success. (I have second thoughts on it when it comes to good upbringing...I think it's obligatory if there is good upbrining.) It's an admirable choice, but if the parents are the kind that mismanage, and are abusive, etc. the offspring have no obligation. Yes, the parents filed for bankruptcy, but Michael did not.

Another note: on the subject of Neverland....Nobody will ever know if there is adequate proof of the threat of foreclosing..documents can be made up...and it doesn't matter that the timing of Michael's partnership came not too long after the rumor of foreclosing, because sometimes one thing can remind a person of another in a totally different subject matter...Michael made it clear in 2005 or shortly thereafter that he didn't consider Neverland a home anymore. There have been plenty of billionaires who have let go of a property if they're tired of it. That doesn't necessarily mean they have financial problems. Just because Michael was always heard to make simple statements with simple language, doesn't mean he was financially stupid. Just because someone else may use what sounds like intellectually 'superior' language, doesn't necessarily mean they are financially smart.

Michael will always be in the totally white-hot media spotlight, so everything about him will be blown totally out of proportion, as the past has proved...the trial..etc.
If a person is the most successful person of all time, they will always be in the white-hot media spot light. And history has proven that white-hot media spotlight people are lied about, by the media, because or, for one, the furious rush to be the first in the media to get the story on that individual for big ratings and big money.

 

[Hess]

I just read this in the book "Defending a King":

Marlon Brando being a good friend, I'm sure he would have accepted to make the appearance for much less, but I guess Michael really wanted to give him that kind of money.

WOW - I never knew this!

MJ really was a great friend and a wonderful human being! - I wish the world had more people like him!