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Think back to 1991...

What's weird is this:

Both Prince and Madonna did a LOT more riskier stuff then.

But Michael grabs his you-know-what, and the world explodes.




JaneBender said:
Alot of people didn't get the message honestly. I can't say if it did or didn't have anything to do with HIM specifically, but I can tell you for a 14 year old I didn't know WHAT was going on. I just saw a whole lotta touching and grabbing. It wasn't like it is today where you can go to youtube or whatever and go back and see things that you didnt' see the first time you watched something. I didn't see KKK messages written on car windows and things like that.

It's like because your eyes are glued to HIM that you aren't looking around the screen for "messages" you know? So when all you're seeing his him touching himself and dancing and smashing windows, then that's ALL you see, you're not looking for anything else. Now maybe if they hadn't stopped playing that part of the video after there was such a public outcry and apology, ppl might have been able to watch a second or third time and see these messages that we missed the first time we watched.
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Sirena said:
What's weird is this:

Both Prince and Madonna did a LOT more riskier stuff then.

But Michael grabs his you-know-what, and the world explodes.
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Yep that what i dont get either grrr :angry:
 
8701girl said:
I think the main problem was for ppl with that part of the video, they thought it was wayy too raunchy and too "Adult". i guess they didnt expect michael to go as far as he did in that part of the vid.
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LOL! Well yeah there was that too! :lol: It was a bit raunchy, yes. I mean he took a chance on something and it didn't go over the way he anticipated. It happens when you're an artist and people don't really understand your work or what you're trying to do. Also the fact that it was aired in primetime on four different networks and kids were watching.. it was kinda a big deal at that time. And of course people wanted to pick at him for something... I think they were justified to a certain extent, BUT of course since it was him it got extra scrutiny. But I still think if folks had a chance to see the video again they might have thought differently.
 
JaneBender said:
LOL! Well yeah there was that too! :lol: It was a bit raunchy, yes. I mean he took a chance on something and it didn't go over the way he anticipated. It happens when you're an artist and people don't really understand your work or what you're trying to do. Also the fact that it was aired in primetime on four different networks and kids were watching.. it was kinda a big deal at that time. And of course people wanted to pick at him for something... I think they were justified to a certain extent, BUT of course since it was him it got extra scrutiny. But I still think if folks had a chance to see the video again they might have thought differently.
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Also it was that it was michael jackson "the so called werido" thats why so many were do disgusted by it.
 
Sirena said:
What's weird is this:

Both Prince and Madonna did a LOT more riskier stuff then.

But Michael grabs his you-know-what, and the world explodes.
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Prince and Madonna weren't as big as Michael was. Neither one of them had a HIGHLY anticipated new CD and video that was going to be simultaneously broadcast on four different stations at the same time. This is Michael Jackson who was known for making the most epic videos ever. Everyone was watching. EVERYONE. This wasnt just a video played here and there on MTV this was a huge deal.

It wasn't just about grabbing his you know what. It was about constant repeated grabbing touching, rubbing IN PRIME TIME on FOUR DIFFERENT NETWORKS while children were watching. Again I'm not saying that that media was justified in making such a big deal out of it, to the point where he felt that had to issue an apology, but at the same time you have to take all of those factors into account.
 
Well, as far as I am concerned IN THIS INSTANCE there was a reason.

Usually (about 99.9%of the time) I agree with the senseless, cruel, heartless, disgusting way the media treated Michael throughout his life, and again, I am not saying that even in THIS instance they were fair, because they weren't, but I won't say that there was NO REASON for people to be upset at the second part of the BoW video. I contend that it was a creative decision that didn't work well for him, because ppl didn't understand what he was trying to do, and he suffered a minor setback and created some controversy because of it. It wasn't for no reason.
 
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JaneBender said:
Because Mike was kinda reclusive between albums (and there wasn't really much internet then like there is not to track celebrities every move) when the Bad album came out it was kinda a shock for ppl to see the change in his skin and face. He hadn't said anything about vitiligo at the time, so the rumors were flying that he was lightening his skin because he didn't wanna be Black, didn't wanna look like his father, wanted to look like Diana Ross etc. It was all in the papers and on tv. My memory at that time (I was 10) was pulling out the Thriller record and my Bad tape, putting them side by side and trying ot figure out why he looked so different. I think I stared at those two covers for 10 minutes... I couldn't figure it out.. but this 10 year old just let it go and that was that.

When Dangerous came out, again since he hadn't really been seen in public that much, when he DID appear in the BoW video the rumors started flying again because he was even lighter that he was before. I think though alot of ppl kinda came to their own conclusions and thought "Oh well, that's just Michael" because no one else was getting lighter like that. At least no one in our world, you know? There weren't any stories about other ppl with vitiligo or anything like that in the papers. And if I'm not mistaken he hadn't even done the Oprah interview yet so no one knew what he was doing to his skin. I guess it was just a genera consensus, at least w/ the ppl I remember talking to about it, and the things I was seeing on tv and in the papers at that time, that he was just getting lighter, probably doing something to his skin obviously and everyone had speculation on the reasons why.

As for the BoW premiere, I remember every one was waiting for the video that night. It was the first time a video would be on like four different stations at the same time, so it was a pretty big deal. We were all talking about it in school the next day, especially the panther dance. I remember watching all that crotch grabbing and yelling and window smashing and shirt ripping with my parents in the living room. I was 14. So that was fun. :D

I remember the apology in the paper the next day... and they never showed that part of the video again after that. Thank goodness for youtube. :cheeky:
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Sirena said:
I can tell you that this is true.

I was a junior in high school when BAD came out - and me being the hardcore fan since my early childhood, I was SHOCKED.

There was no internet, no nothing except MTV. And MJ was not to be seen anywhere before the BAD album cover.

And when Michael appeared on the BAD cover - after not seeing him since the Victory tour photos, it was shocking to see the transformation.

At first, I did believe the rumors - that he was ashamed of his roots - but that all changed when I heard the MUSIC. That did it for me - because Michael transcended the physical - it became spiritual for him and for all of us who love him.

The BAD album is an incredible album - then to add the kung-fu kick of the BAD tour & Moonwalker movie, WOW.

WOW.

Michael was crucified because he wanted to defend his private life and medical history. How would anyone like it if their medical illnesses were made public? He did what he had to do.

Anyway - that's my take. Any other oldies want to share their stories???
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Thank you Jane and Sirena
 
Sirena said:
What's weird is this:

Both Prince and Madonna did a LOT more riskier stuff then.

But Michael grabs his you-know-what, and the world explodes.
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AND the media had a FIT when Madonna did her thing! Remember that book she had out? The Like a Prayer video? Her risky stage costumes with the cone bras? That docu she had out? I'm sure there is more but I can't think of it off the top of my head. Didn't she simulate sex on stage during her tours or something? I can't remember. Anyway the media was in a uproar about all of that. The difference between her and Mike was that she LOVED that publicity, she WANTED it. She wanted her name in the media and wanted to push buttons. So she kept getting riskier and riskier. She wasn't anywhere upset about how ppl didn't understand her art and what she was trying to do. She was somewhere trying to come up with something to top her last stunt.
 
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girl24 said:
I was in junior high and I remember specifically thinking...when is MJ going to come out with another album? That same week is when I saw the video premier for Black or White...it was awesome. All the news channels were talking about it for weeks, specifically about the ending! I bought the album right away and me and my younger brother would listen to it after school every day. I would bring my cd player into his bedroom and we would just lie on his bedroom floor and listen to the whole thing. Fun times! Then, I remember watching the Jam video for the first time, I believe it was aired during the summer olympics. I also remember watching his Dangerous tour that was aired on VH1, over and over and over again! There would always be MJ weekends on VH1 and MTV around that time. They would play his videos all weekend long, it was great. I also remember staying up late to watch the Oprah interview and The Jacksons, An American Dream with my mother. Everyone at school would be talking about it the next day. Great memories!
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Wow, sounds like great memories! You guys got the full MJ experience!

Unfortunately I grew up in the MJ bashing-era.

But Sidenote on the crotch grabbing- My mom is like the ultimate prude, yet she never had a problem with MJ's crotch grabbing lol I don't know why but when I first got my Dangerous DVD and I watched Black or White w/ full ending for the first time ( I did not EXPECT to see that one coming!!!) with both of my parents, me and my little sister were in the words of Janet " Sweating Bullets"...yet my parents, the most strict and prudest people you'll ever meet, enjoyed the video and sympathized with MJ! I didn't understand that part of the video until the second time that I watched it but my parents seemed to get it like that! Upon instant exposure. From then I sorta suspected that they were closet fans lol
 
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MJJ7777 said:
Wow, sounds like great memories! You guys got the full MJ experience!

Unfortunately I grew up in the MJ bashing-era.

But Sidenote on the crotch grabbing- My mom is like the ultimate prude, yet she never had a problem with MJ's crotch grabbing lol I don't know why but when I first got my Dangerous DVD and I watched Black or White w/ full ending for the first time ( I did not EXPECT to see that one coming!!!) with both of my parents, me and my little sister were in the words of Janet " Sweating Bullets"...yet my parents, the most strict and prudest people you'll ever meet, enjoyed the video and sympathized with MJ! I didn't understand that part of the video until the second time that I watched it but my parents seemed to get it like that! Upon instant exposure. From then I sorta suspected that they were closet fans lol
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Lol :lol: that's so cute.
 
I was 14. I remember the media about the In The closet video I remember how high tech the face morphing was in Black or White. How MTV edited out the extended scene in the video because of the 'crotch grabbing' and the Busting windows.. I remember it all..
 
suzynyc said:
I don't know, maybe it's just me but that kiss doesn't look passionate enough. A little awkward. Maybe MJ had a tough time relaxing.
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It seems more of a shadowing affect..I don't think they actually kissed. His face was a bit behind hers and so in the dark they just made it look like they were kissing..same in "You Rock My World" video..
 
I was 9 years old when Dangerous came out...I remember the BoW video, but I don't remember the uproar about it...My mom bought me the Dangerous CD, and I remember watching In the Closet with my parents one time...I was about 11 probably when that came out...I remember my dad watching tv, and came across it on MuchMusic (like MTV in Canada, based in Toronto), and he called my mom and me downstairs, and said, check this new Michael Jackson video...It's pretty risque..lol...I know he liked watching Naomi Campbell...My mom had mentioned Michael looked pretty damn good at the time as well...lol...I remember mostly the videos...and when the Oprah interview came out, and I saw Give in To Me...I was hooked...That's when I became a huge fan....
 
Giant Enemy Cat said:
When Dangerous was released...

What was it like at school, college, work or wherever you were at the time?

Was it highly anticipated? Was everyone talking about it all the time?

Stuff like that...

I wouldn't know because I was -2 years old.
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JaneBender said:
Prince and Madonna weren't as big as Michael was. Neither one of them had a HIGHLY anticipated new CD and video that was going to be simultaneously broadcast on four different stations at the same time. This is Michael Jackson who was known for making the most epic videos ever. Everyone was watching. EVERYONE. This wasnt just a video played here and there on MTV this was a huge deal.

It wasn't just about grabbing his you know what. It was about constant repeated grabbing touching, rubbing IN PRIME TIME on FOUR DIFFERENT NETWORKS while children were watching. Again I'm not saying that that media was justified in making such a big deal out of it, to the point where he felt that had to issue an apology, but at the same time you have to take all of those factors into account.
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Yeah, I remember watching the premiere w/ my parents, and they loved the song/video, but were really annoyed/perplexed by the 'panther ending,' lol. They just didn't 'get' why he would touch himself/yell/destroy the car (aahhh, parents!), and that it basically didn't make sense to end such a nice message w/ such a scene. By no means are my parents 'haters' (they are actually fans and have always listened to my CDs), but they just didn't like the end. As for Madonna and Prince, though big, yeah, they weren't as big as Michael to the point where their videos aired in prime-time and became a global event. My parents (and I'm guessing other people in the same age bracket) aren't likely to tune into BET or MTV and watch videos, so to see the crotch-grabbing must have been like WOW and "what in the world!" to a generation of people who grew up w/ Ed Sullivan censoring Elvis' hips and trying to censor Jim Morrison from saying "take me higher."
 
Well I was Nine years old I’m so proud to say I had the early to late 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s jamming to Michael music . Omg when the bad album drop I hated my brother he was a Stan he wouldn‘t let me play it so I sneak and played the album my favorite song on that album was “man in the mirror“ and dirty Diana. but when Dangerous drop I became more of a stan lol RTT was my joint and still is and “who is it” , in the closet but I was so young to understand that song at that time. My oldest sister tells me a lot about the victory tour cause she went to see him and his brothers out here in nyc. my sister always use to say you know Michael Jackson is my first love if I ever have a son I’m name him Michael she sure did name my nephew Michael so sweet . She love MJJ until the day he left us god bless his heart very well missed..thank u for this thread my heart warmed up again
 
I like the ending to Black or White..but I have to admit..to the average person watching it..it must be pretty bizarre, especially back then. I think it was such a huge contrast form the begining of the video where you have the beautiful message and michael with different dancers from around the world and the morphing..and then all of a sudden you get like 10 minutes of Michael touching himself, breaking glass and screaming...it is pretty bizarre if you ask me and quite unnecessary. It only detracted from the message he was trying to get across I think.. Because people were anticipating it..loved it..and before they even flip the channel they were hating on it..poor choice Mike.
 
Campari said:
ETA: While on the subject of controversy, I'll never forget the "What on earth is Michael Jackson wearing? Is it a swimsuit, is it a fill in the blank..etc" in 1992... :lol:
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Ha ha that's my first memory of him, I was 9 and saw the Dangerous in Bucharest and I was hooked. My dad was making fun of him saying he was wearing his underwear on the outside LOL but I didn't care, I went home and started listening to everything MJ I could find, and I even found old Jacksons goodies on my dad's tapes from college.

I remember watching the BOW video and I was so proud of Mike for being allowed to get up on the Statue of Liberty :smilerolleyes: - I was 9 what did I know....
But I was mesmerized by him and I've been a fan ever since.:wub:
 
suzynyc said:
I don't know, maybe it's just me but that kiss doesn't look passionate enough. A little awkward. Maybe MJ had a tough time relaxing.
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They so didn't kiss. :lol: I remember my friends and I talking about it (ugh u guys... memories!) u can see there was a space between their faces when Iman kneels. We wondered why they didn't kiss... or why they decided to use that take where you could clearly see the space... why didn't they do another take and do the kiss again? :lol:

We dug the video anyway cause it was HOT! And so NOT Mike's usual style, the Egyptian theme, the kiss that never was, the outfits, the dancing.. he was killing it! :cheeky:
 
MoeJack said:
I like the ending to Black or White..but I have to admit..to the average person watching it..it must be pretty bizarre, especially back then. I think it was such a huge contrast form the begining of the video where you have the beautiful message and michael with different dancers from around the world and the morphing..and then all of a sudden you get like 10 minutes of Michael touching himself, breaking glass and screaming...it is pretty bizarre if you ask me and quite unnecessary. It only detracted from the message he was trying to get across I think.. Because people were anticipating it..loved it..and before they even flip the channel they were hating on it..poor choice Mike.
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I was watching this lil interview mike did during a countdown on his videos and he talked bout the ending. He said he was letting his fraustion out bout bigerty, racism and all that suff i guess in mikes eyes it was ok .
 
I remember watching the B&W video and thinking how cool it was that they got the people's faces to morph into each other. I watched the video not too long ago and was amazed at how good computer graphics and imaging was back in those days! The video is still so fresh and essentially timeless!
 
MoeJack said:
Really? When I think of MJ from the 90s...the first and foremost image is open white unbottoned shirt and black pants with hair flying everywhere..I guess the black or white outfit..but more the look from the superbowl. I feel like that outfit is a really defining one for MJ..even more than the beat it jacket or billie jean sparkly jacket in my opinion..
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Mmm... good point... Yes, really, the black or white outfit is quite definying.
That man... he made so many milestones with his music, his moves, his outfits, all!!!!
 
Sirena said:
THE KISS, here - but you have to watch the full video - near the end- about 3/4 into the way...

edit: 6:00 into the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeiFF0gvqcc

REMEMBER THE TIME!!!
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Me, me!!! I said it before, the kiss was THE kiss!!!!!!!! I remember people being like -->
Shock.gif


I mean, EVERY single film was shocking. There was always something incredible on them: morphing, dances, kisses, big stars. And as someone said before, Michael wouldn't allow us to rest. Nop. One after the other. We would be still amazed by BoW and then he hit us with RTT. My favourite.

But then In the closet!!! And everybody wanted to be Naomi... he being so sweet and she being so... well... "special", what a mixture!!

Jam was also great. I remember these little rapper boys... Kriss Kross?? and of course, the "Big" rapper LOL!!

Great, great times of great music!!

And back then you didn't ask people if they liked Michael Jackson. It was a cultural thing. EVERYBODY LIKED MICHAEL JACKSON. Period. Haters were around, sure, but in terms of music, people had no single question, we all loved the King's music. It was a natural, expected, known fact. No questions about it. Everybody HAD to liked MJ, it was part of your education. If someone didn't then s/he would be considered weird. At least in my country things were like that. We didn't talk that much about him since it was obvious he was the best. I mean it, there were no questions.

Can you imagine that? Now I see back then it was all so easy and natural and Michael was simply out of this world and he would be around forever. Forever changing, forever surprising, forever dancing and thrilling our world.

"Forever"... what a crazy word....
 
I was 6-7 yrs. old. I remember going to Wal-Mart with my mom and seeing this humongous "Dangerous" display full of cassette tapes (remember those? lol). It was the first album I bought with my own money.

The "Black or White" premiere was pretty big lol. It was gonna be shown on 3-4 channels simulaneously, so, being a simpsons fan, I chose to watch it on FOX, after the show. I flipped from FOX, to MTV, to VH1, to BET, and it was nothing but MJ. That alone blew me away. Back then, and even now, that's a really big deal. I don't remember all the fuss over the last few minutes of the "short", partly because I was really too young to care about that stuff , everyone I knew at the time (young and old) loved it, and lastly, I really didn't care lol.

The "Jam" video, however was really special for me, because I idolized both Jordan and Jackson, and I never thought that they would team up for a music video (outside of my dream world lol).
 
MoeJack said:
I like the ending to Black or White..but I have to admit..to the average person watching it..it must be pretty bizarre, especially back then.
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true.

MoeJack said:
Because people were anticipating it..loved it..and before they even flip the channel they were hating on it..poor choice Mike.
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well, creating a controversy about something that trivial is a great success
and was most probably planned exactly like this. just like the teaser for the
HIStory album.

its art... art of expression and calculated art of promotion.
always funny how conservative consumers react to it while they are getting played. ;D
 
I was in my last year at primary school in 91. I remeber the big hype with the dangerous album at the time, which was huge. After the magical ride during the Bad era evertone was thinking, whats gonna come next with dangerous.

The Black n White video was the talk of my class I remember Everyone was saying whats Mj gonna do this time around and stuff. I got the dangerous cassette for my xmas that year. I would say back then the hype was massive for dangerous.
 
Triumph said:
true.



well, creating a controversy about something that trivial is a great success
and was most probably planned exactly like this. just like the teaser for the
HIStory album.

its art... art of expression and calculated art of promotion.
always funny how conservative consumers react to it while they are getting played. ;D
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True..but I'm wondering if might have had a more positive effect with just the first part of the video. Because I mean, everyone loved it and I think he got his message across..but then after the ending..people forgot about the coolness of the video and just worried about Mike's "weirdness". I honestly think Mike would have preferred that his message get across as he intended it. Even John Landis said that what was shot was the actuall video..but then mike said keep the cameras rolling and he was just improvising and they kept it in..i mean i like the ending sequence, its fun, cool moves..but it seems a bit out of place you know? maybe couldve been part of another video or something..
 
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