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The Ultimate Invincible Discussion Thread

Re: How Do You Feel About Invincible??

Yes many people have great opinions..

INVINCIBLE is his most under rated album.. BY FAR.. Though all his albums after THRILLER have been under rated to an extent..

Invincible deservs so mucn more credit than ppl give it...
 
The 3 Uptempo Tracks

I've read everyone's full impressions of the album, now I want to break it down a little bit. We'll begin with the first 3 songs, which all happen to be uptempo.

I feel like these fast songs just lacks something. It's like they doesn't have that "bite" that most of Mike's albums have. The uptempo songs seem bogged down by the industrial, electronic sounding production. There isn't that sense of space and the vocals don't seem as natural and free sounding as they do on other songs. Although I enjoy the songs Invincible, Unbreakable, and Heartbreaker, it just seems like something is missing when compared to the first three fast songs on Dangerous. Maybe its the song structure? The first three are basic on Invincible, whereas the structure varies from song to song on the first three tracks on Dangerous.

How do you guys feel about the 3 uptempo tracks that start the album?
 
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Whatever Happens is one of the best song Michael has ever done!

And I also think that for

Unbreakable and YRMW


Some of the songs I don't like - 2000 Watts, You Are My Life, Privacy, Threatened...

As for the first three tracks - I love them all in this order:

Unbreakable (the catchiest tune)
Invincible
Heartbreaker

Break Of Dawn I love as well...

Heaven Can Wait is boring to me.

Butterflies is OK , could have been a hit.

Speechless - great vocals, song kinda Disney , yeah.

Cry - copy of MITM but OK still

Don't Walk Away - great ballad I love it...

The Lost Children - sth I don't like, dunno what...

And that's about it...
 
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While I give most of the negitivity towards INVINCIBLE towards the PROMOTION which highly effected EVERYTHING..

If there is a weakness in the album, it's the instramental equiptment and how they used it.. Michael at the time, purposly made sounds that could not easily be ripped, duplicated.. Remember it was a time that piracy was becoming reall big.. Anyways, I think that protection may have helped in that aspect, but ot pulled away from true arangements.. (not all songs)

Also some don't see it this way, but the order of songs, and the way the album is put together really does effect things too.. I think the first 3 tracks should not have been put there in that order.. Because it sets a tone, and standard that the album will be judged on..

I think they should have tooken out 1 of those 3 tracks completly.. put something with a complete different sound in the middle of 2 of them.. That alone would change the whole tilt of the album.. Lets just say he put 'Fall Again' as the second track.. (as an example)

U know Quincy explained the importance of putting the album together.. And how they took the weakest songs, and put in the strongest songs and it completly changes the album..

I think they could have done a little better in that aspect of Invincible..

But again.. It is still a great album.. I mean in went to #1 still.. It may have been considered a 'miss' in MJ standard.. But still a huge hit compared to everyone else..


Keep in mind.. with WHO EVER it is and WHATEVER it is.. There will always be something liked the 'least'.. If it were not Invincible it would be another album..

Michelangelo's artwork is not ALL known and loved.. With creative minds, there mind experiments into so many things.. We wont grab hold of EVERYTHING..

And to be honest, I think if Invincible were released today it would have been more accepted.. Michael is always ahead of the times, but with Invincible, they used brand new equiptment (at the time) and used them in ways never used before.. NOW, you will here a more digital sound in music than 2001.. People would respond to it better now because of it..

And don't forget where the world was at durring the time Invincible came out.. 9/11 shifted peoples minds from everything.. Many people were not ready to go back to entertainment as a main focus.. Invincible was released within just weeks from 9/11..

not just PEOPLE, but TV shows were effected, radio would not play music for some time.. etc.. Of course this effects promotion and getting people to take hold of a sound and album... This added to the POOR promotion Invincible got.. Invincible is LUCKY to sell OVER 10 MILLION..
 
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"You Are My Life" took some getting used to for me, but now I adore it. Michael's vocal is brilliant on it, and the quality of his voice is like from another world.

"Speechless" is incredibly strong both melodically and in terms of arrangement. And again, killer vocals. I don't know how anyone could dislike Michael's vocals on this album, overall. He was tearing songs like "Unrebreakable", "Heartbreaker", etc... up. Even if you didn't like the songs, you have to admit his outstanding showing vocally on them.

"The Lost Children" is an incredible song. People don't like it because of the subject. I think they're embarrassed by it. But if you can side step the fact that you don't like what it's about, and actually listen to it, lyrically, it is very strong, and melodically it is even stronger.
 
KOPV said:
Also some don't see it this way, but the order of songs, and the way the album is put together really does effect things too..I think the first 3 tracks should not have been put there in that order.. Because it sets a tone, and standard that the album will be judged on..

I think they should have tooken out 1 of those 3 tracks completly.. put something with a complete different sound in the middle of 2 of them.. That alone would change the whole tilt of the album.. Lets just say he put 'Fall Again' as the second track.. (as an example)

U know Quincy explained the importance of putting the album together.. And how they took the weakest songs, and put in the strongest songs and it completly changes the album..

I think they could have done a little better in that aspect of Invincible..
Click to expand...

You're jumping the gun!! That was another question I was going to ask later in the thread:D
 
^ Cuz we see eye to eye... I feel ya!! I Got-chu


I just did a little :fortuneteller:
 
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sry...wrong post
 
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KOPV said:
While I give most of the negitivity towards INVINCIBLE towards the PROMOTION which highly effected EVERYTHING..

If there is a weakness in the album, it's the instramental equiptment and how they used it.. Michael at the time, purposly made sounds that could not easily be ripped, duplicated.. Remember it was a time that piracy was becoming reall big.. Anyways, I think that protection may have helped in that aspect, but ot pulled away from true arangements.. (not all songs)

Also some don't see it this way, but the order of songs, and the way the album is put together really does effect things too.. I think the first 3 tracks should not have been put there in that order.. Because it sets a tone, and standard that the album will be judged on..

I think they should have tooken out 1 of those 3 tracks completly.. put something with a complete different sound in the middle of 2 of them.. That alone would change the whole tilt of the album.. Lets just say he put 'Fall Again' as the second track.. (as an example)

U know Quincy explained the importance of putting the album together.. And how they took the weakest songs, and put in the strongest songs and it completly changes the album..

I think they could have done a little better in that aspect of Invincible..

But again.. It is still a great album.. I mean in went to #1 still.. It may have been considered a 'miss' in MJ standard.. But still a huge hit compared to everyone else..


Keep in mind.. with WHO EVER it is and WHATEVER it is.. There will always be something liked the 'least'.. If it were not Invincible it would be another album..

Michelangelo's artwork is not ALL known and loved.. With creative minds, there mind experiments into so many things.. We wont grab hold of EVERYTHING..

And to be honest, I think if Invincible were released today it would have been more accepted.. Michael is always ahead of the times, but with Invincible, they used brand new equiptment (at the time) and used them in ways never used before.. NOW, you will here a more digital sound in music than 2001.. People would respond to it better now because of it..

And don't forget where the world was at durring the time Invincible came out.. 9/11 shifted peoples minds from everything.. Many people were not ready to go back to entertainment as a main focus.. Invincible was released within just weeks from 9/11..

not just PEOPLE, but TV shows were effected, radio would not play music for some time.. etc.. Of course this effects promotion and getting people to take hold of a sound and album... This added to the POOR promotion Invincible got.. Invincible is LUCKY to sell OVER 10 MILLION..
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You put all this VERY nicely!

The thing for song order, I COMPLETELY agree with you.

Here's how I would make the Invincible track order for example:

1.Unbreakable
2.Heartbreaker
3.Break Of Dawn
4.Fall Again
5.Don't Walk Away
6.You Rock My World
7.Butterflies
8.XScape
9.Cry
10.Invincible
11.Speechless
12.Whatever Happens
13.We've Had Enough



So, yeah, I know there aren't all the songs here,but hey,it's MY track list :tease:
 
I love the album up to Speechless, then it goes downhill for me. I would've had the lineup of the album like this:

1 Unbreakable
2 Heartbreaker
3 Invincible
4 Break of Dawn
5 Heaven Can Wait
6 You Rock My World
7 Butterflies
8 Speechless
9 We've Had Enough
10 Don't Walk Away
11 Whatever Happens
12 Threatened
13 Escape
 
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Re: The 3 Uptempo Tracks

A. Sizzle said:
I feel like these fast songs just lacks something. It's like they doesn't have that "bite" that most of Mike's albums have. The uptempo songs seem bogged down by the industrial, electronic sounding production. There isn't that sense of space and the vocals don't seem as natural and free sounding as they do on other songs.
Click to expand...

I agree. "Industrial, electronic sounding" is a good description of how the whole album sounds except a few really beautiful slow songs
 
KOPV said:
Also some don't see it this way, but the order of songs, and the way the album is put together really does effect things too.. I think the first 3 tracks should not have been put there in that order.. Because it sets a tone, and standard that the album will be judged on..

I think they should have tooken out 1 of those 3 tracks completly.. put something with a complete different sound in the middle of 2 of them.. That alone would change the whole tilt of the album.. Lets just say he put 'Fall Again' as the second track.. (as an example)

U know Quincy explained the importance of putting the album together.. And how they took the weakest songs, and put in the strongest songs and it completly changes the album..

I think they could have done a little better in that aspect of Invincible..


Keep in mind.. with WHO EVER it is and WHATEVER it is.. There will always be something liked the 'least'.. If it were not Invincible it would be another album..

Michelangelo's artwork is not ALL known and loved.. With creative minds, there mind experiments into so many things.. We wont grab hold of EVERYTHING..

And to be honest, I think if Invincible were released today it would have been more accepted.. Michael is always ahead of the times, but with Invincible, they used brand new equiptment (at the time) and used them in ways never used before.. NOW, you will here a more digital sound in music than 2001.. People would respond to it better now because of it..

And don't forget where the world was at durring the time Invincible came out.. 9/11 shifted peoples minds from everything.. Many people were not ready to go back to entertainment as a main focus.. Invincible was released within just weeks from 9/11..

not just PEOPLE, but TV shows were effected, radio would not play music for some time.. etc.. Of course this effects promotion and getting people to take hold of a sound and album... This added to the POOR promotion Invincible got.. Invincible is LUCKY to sell OVER 10 MILLION..
Click to expand...

:eek: OMG! :yes:You said it!!!:clapping::clapping: I agree with it 100%! :punk:

1. wrong song order :yes:
2. nobody has just great works even Michelangelo had "bad" works
3. Michael is always ahead of music history
4. 9/11
5. poor promotion - still 10+ million copies

People seem to forget that music industry will never be the same again. They won't sell 30+ million copies of an album. No way! If you sell 10 million of an album - then it's a huge success. But people still compare Michael's album sales' with Thriller album's sales. Which is silly... Thriller was 25 years ago, as we all know...

I like Invincible very much. My biggest problems are the first 3 tracks. Wrong order or these 3 tracks are almost the same, so one would have been enough for me (or none of them).

I adore the ballads on it: Break of dawn, Don't walk away, Speechless, You are my life, Cry, The lost children, Whatever happens - they all are great, smooth, lovely and Michaelicious songs. :yes:

I like some fast songs as well e. g. You rock my world, 2000 watts and Threatened.

Overall it's great but I would have added Fall again, Xscape, We've had enough instead of the first 3.
 
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People can you please clear something up for me: Some of ya'l say Vince sold 10 million, some of ya'l say 8 million, most reports I've read say 8 million. Which one is it? There's a huuuuge difference between those two figures..
 
Re: How Do You Feel About Invincible??

speedway said:
Invincible is boring, boring, boring!...no good lyric. the melodies has no dept at all. they are to up in your face and you get tierd of them after listening to them 5 times. there is nothing new to discover. it like he tryes to hard to make hit songs, but for me it is not working. im sorry. I really wont it to be grate. but it is not:( and the ballades are to disney for me.
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obviously ur not listenin 2 invincible. no good lyrics? the melodies have no depth? so ur telling me Dont walk away and speechless have no depth? Break of dawn has no depth? Butterflies? You are my life? those are not no damn disney ballads idk what disney music u listen 2 lol. u obviously need 2 sit down and listen 2 invincible again until u get it right cuz clearly u have failed lol. And mj does not try 2 hard 2 make hits, trust there were many hit singles that cud've came 4rm invincible. Like i say and will continue 2 say invincible is under-rated even amongst some fans (no harm intended)
 
Re: How Do You Feel About Invincible??

vncwilliam said:
best album ever made.

i'm not jaded by relativity.

i've played this cd more than any other in the history of my collection.

i've worn out at least thirteen copies.

on this cd, he is willing to go where the music takes him, and is not concerned about fitting into a genre..and it still has the great pop appeal. it's the only album in history to sell like gangbusters without promotion.

that's a great feat within itself and highlights the artistic merit of this cd.:clapping::punk:
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i love u 4 this post lol
 
dangerous_88 said:
Whatever Happens is one of the best song Michael has ever done!

And I also think that for

Unbreakable and YRMW


Some of the songs I don't like - 2000 Watts, You Are My Life, Privacy, Threatened...

As for the first three tracks - I love them all in this order:

Unbreakable (the catchiest tune)
Invincible
Heartbreaker

Break Of Dawn I love as well...

Heaven Can Wait is boring to me.

Butterflies is OK , could have been a hit.

Speechless - great vocals, song kinda Disney , yeah.

Cry - copy of MITM but OK still

Don't Walk Away - great ballad I love it...

The Lost Children - sth I don't like, dunno what...

And that's about it...
Click to expand...

Cry is no Man in the mirror copy lol man n the mirror is about self change whereas cry is about every reaching out 2another 2 help us change the world..u kno im gonna leave this thread 4 i get mad lol i kno we are all entitled our own opinions...but ur opinions suck! (lol JOKE PPLE)
 
Re: The 3 Uptempo Tracks

A. Sizzle said:
I've read everyone's full impressions of the album, now I want to break it down a little bit. We'll begin with the first 3 songs, which all happen to be uptempo.

I feel like these fast songs just lacks something. It's like they doesn't have that "bite" that most of Mike's albums have. The uptempo songs seem bogged down by the industrial, electronic sounding production. There isn't that sense of space and the vocals don't seem as natural and free sounding as they do on other songs. Although I enjoy the songs Invincible, Unbreakable, and Heartbreaker, it just seems like something is missing when compared to the first three fast songs on Dangerous. Maybe its the song structure? The first three are basic on Invincible, whereas the structure varies from song to song on the first three tracks on Dangerous.

How do you guys feel about the 3 uptempo tracks that start the album?
Click to expand...

The three up-tempo tracks that start off the album are fantastic, well, at least Unbreakable is. Heartbreaker & Invincible are fantastic too, but Unbreakable is definitely the best out of the three. My only problem, which is everyone else's problem also, is that they all sound similar and have those stupid rappers on them! Unbreakable is a little too long, should have been cut by about 1 minute 1/2. Heartbreaker is nice, but again, should have been a bit shorter. And that rapper could have been cut out. Invincible is pretty good where it's at, and Michael's vocals in it are... :wub:

Overall, they are pretty great, but should have been placed in different locations throughout the album.

BTW I love how the shortest track is "speechless" though that's the best song :rolleyes: Lawd, sometimes MJ just makes me :angry:
 
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michaelsson said:
Cry is no Man in the mirror copy lol man n the mirror is about self change whereas cry is about every reaching out 2another 2 help us change the world..u kno im gonna leave this thread 4 i get mad lol i kno we are all entitled our own opinions...but ur opinions suck! (lol JOKE PPLE)
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:hysterical: Man, you're so funny!
 
I have to say Cry is very similar to Man In The Mirror. They even both end with Michael "whispering" some inspirational line that sounds like exact carbon-copies :lol:
 
michaelsson said:
Cry is no Man in the mirror copy lol man n the mirror is about self change whereas cry is about every reaching out 2another 2 help us change the world..u kno im gonna leave this thread 4 i get mad lol i kno we are all entitled our own opinions...but ur opinions suck! (lol JOKE PPLE)
Click to expand...


:lol: Im wit' you brotha :lol:
 
Fayik said:
I have to say Cry is very similar to Man In The Mirror. They even both end with Michael "whispering" some inspirational line that sounds like exact carbon-copies :lol:
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yeah, I have the same feeling. The whole structure of the 2 songs are similar. Maybe the message is not the same, but almost the same.

Make that change or Change the world :unsure:

The first one is about you should start to change yourself and then you can make a change the 2nd one is about all of us has to change the world together. Very similar IMO.:scratch:

I love both songs very very much.
 
Kinga said:
yeah, I have the same feeling. The whole structure of the 2 songs are similar. Maybe the message is not the same, but almost the same.

Make that change or Change the world :unsure:

The first one is about you should start to change yourself and then you can make a change the 2nd one is about all of us has to change the world together. Very similar IMO.:scratch:

I love both songs very very much.
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Oh yes, don't take it the wrong way, I LOVE the two songs. But they do feel similar.
 
Of all the six studio albums MJ released since he left Motown, this was the one in which Michael vocally was back at his R&B roots. There wasn't as much a mixture of sounds as "Thriller", "Bad", "Dangerous" and, especially "HIStory" was. Even when he did "The Lost Children" and "Privacy", I still felt an urban vibe throughout much of it. I enjoyed the love ballads on there including "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn" and "Heaven Can Wait".
 
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10omj69.jpg


Horrible album cover... just saying :lol:
 
troubleman84 said:
Of all the six studio albums MJ released since he left Motown, this was the one in which Michael vocally was back at his R&B roots. There wasn't as much a mixture of sounds as "Thriller", "Bad", "Dangerous" and, especially "HIStory" was. Even when he did "The Lost Children" and "Privacy", I still felt an urban vibe throughout much of it. I enjoyed the love ballads on there including "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn" and "Heaven Can Wait".
Click to expand...


now..see..that's the beauty of invincible. i never would have guessed that anyone felt an urban vibe in the lost children.
 
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