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The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

U need to chill PACE. lol What's weird is when someone jumps into a person discussion assuming they know what the other meant and it's obviously u didn't even know what I meant when I said "show" so let me help u!
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

bluetopez said:
...Get it now?!:smilerolleyes:

...
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Yes, no worries, Topaz, I may not be a native speaker, but I am fairly confident that my grasp of the English language is sufficient to understand both this thread and your posting.

Michael has passed away and the 'oddities' that people are listing are not Michael's doing, 'fault' or 'responsibility.'

One of the most horrifying statements of this entire thread is someone who wrote that thanks to the hoax they have 'learned so much about the person Michael Jackson.'

That's when I really grabbed my head. I learn absolutely nothing about the person Michael by examining the address of some bank who gave him a loan. I also don't learn anything about the person Michael by examining the crypt structure in which his physical remains have been entombed. All these things are exterior details in a physical world, but they are not the person Michael.

None of the hoax stuff tells me ANYTHING about the person Michael- especially since it usually features speculation and wild phantasies about other people mainly.

I do think that many of us carry wounds of unresolved grief around and that a lot of it stems from the total helplessness that those that love MJ are confronted with. In life and in death. People do feel a connection to Michael and that connection didn't just break away because of his physical death. That is the true meaning of "Love is forever".

Love is direct, real. It doesn't requite any clues, hints, or oddities. There is no love in a hoax, just paranoia.
These hoax videos are not a testament to what Michael means by 'to remind the world that love is important, to love one another'- all these 'odd things' are exterior facets, are attributable to other people- but they are not the person Michael. The hoax reminds me of the way people judged Michael (!!!!) for the prize of the coffin that he was buried in. It's completely irrational- and the hoax is very much like that. Blaming Michael for physical word occurrences, a physical world that he is no longer part of.

Visiting a cemetery makes it more tangible, more understandable. The fans are located worldwide and for the most part unable to go to Forest Lawn and shed the tears the need to shed- for Michael and for themselves.
 
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Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Everybody has their own reasons to believe or follow the hoax. I explained that too many times here already and I'm not doing it again! If it bothers some or they just don't get it why even come here? If ur mindset was/is already and was from the beginning "NO, Never and can't be" then nothing will changed that, so why even bother?
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

bluetopez said:
Everybody has their own reasons to believe or follow the hoax. I explained that too many times here already and I'm not doing it again! If it bothers some or they just don't get it why even come here? If ur mindset was/is already and was from the beginning "NO, Never and can't be" then nothing will changed that, so why even bother?
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:fear:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

One of the most horrifying statements of this entire thread is someone who wrote that thanks to the hoax they have 'learned so much about the person Michael Jackson.'
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If that is horrifying to you it is because you dont understand. It sounds like you are focusing on the outside issues (like what you mentioned about the loan and the crypt) but there has been alot more covered.

Sure some of it is nonsense or fancy filled and some of it is just discussing details we might not know about like the crypt having stairs into a room. But there are some very informative articles and videos that can teach us alot about Michael and yet perhaps only surface just what he had to go through.

I think we need to just approach this topic with an open mind and appreciate it is allowed here for a reason and respect that.

After all this thread could have been pulled along time ago or at any time and yet it is still here. So it MUST have some sort of merit.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

But there are some very informative articles and videos that can teach us alot about Michael and yet perhaps only surface just what he had to go through.
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^Yes! And that's what I meant from a post a few pgs ago when I said something like I've learned EVEN MORE about MJ through this hoax and about the people around him and the evil things in this world that people are not paying attention to and things like that!

But, anyway just wanted to say thx and glad to see others get it! ;) and good vid Gfresh! Interesting vid and how it was gonna be named "Mj WAS dead." o_O
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

yes good vid Gfresh!! and also in line with what we are just discussing!


Actually!!... one of the comments on that video says it all!!!

thank? u 4 ur work, i am loving ur videos. so informative, eye opening and hopeful. no matter if he's alive or not here on this earth with us anymore, it is important that we take a close look at mj, his life and his death 2 spread his message and truth. but most importantly, i hope that he is happy and at peace wherever he is and that he is proud of his fans and loved ones 4 spreading his message, his love and truth.....thank u again 4 ur videos. L.O.V.E.
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Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I just dont believe that it is over, and I HAVE BEEN to Forest Lawn! I still read this thread...
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Well, I was thinking about the interview with Kathy Hilton: http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.../31/exp.piers.hilton.michael.jackson.cnn.html


Kathy said that shortly before his death Michael was living at the Bel Air Hotel... ??? Then Samantha de Gosson said in facebook:


74313860.jpg


And someone asked for Samantha:

Sam does not understand, but Michael was living in that hotel or carlowood? and especially where it 's dead?'cause the Hilton said that before his death he was in that hotel? from what I remember the call for relief and 'just arrived carlwood.pardon from that hotel but I can not think where he is 'the truth' in this story.
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Samantha's answer:

Ok, some things were not clear. Paris' mother said michael was there for much longer than he actually was. She confused weeks for months. Details. Michael was at Carolwood by christmas time. Doesn't natter in the end.
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She never claimed she went from the hotel to the hospital. She may have still been there but he wasn't. Michael moved to Carolwood before Christmas. If the Hiltons were still at the Bel Air at that time I don't know and it makes no difference.
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Then I remembered some of paparazzi pictures of Michael at the Bel Air Hotel a few times:

leaving-the-bel-air-hotel402-m-1.jpg


003wfq.jpg


walkonbridge.jpg
0005psdme9.jpg


30w2uro.jpg



And....


3661571842_6a4c84b7c7.jpg





I'm confused by this whole thing of the hotel. :unsure:






:fear:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Kathy Hilton knew that Michael was living at a rented home at Carolwood Dr. on June 25, 09, for she mentions that after hearing from her assistant that MJ had been taken to the hospital, instead of going straight to the hospital, she first went to the home in Carolwood Drive thinking the childen might still be there (and could be needing her comfort/support, for the kids knew her well as a close longtime friend of their father's).

In the scheme of things...an over thirty-five year long friendship, if she and MJ both were living at the hotel for a few months at the same time (within the last nine months of his life)...that would seem like towards the end to her or right before he died.

But she did not take the time to clarify that by December he and his children moved out of the hotel to live at the rented Carolwood home. What was precious to her, understandably, is after all their years as being friends, towards the end they were both living at the same hotel and shared some special times together. See how that would mean a lot to her now and be her emphasis, seeing she lost her friend such a short time afterwards (six months)?

It is not clear if she and her family were still there living at the hotel the day he died, perhaps their home's renovation had been completed already and the Hiltons were already back home...but she did drive to Carolwood first that day, and then when the children were not there but obviously were at the hospital, she went straight to the hospital as well.

This is at least how I interpreted her statements.

When individuals are being interviewed they cannot always while talking stand back and be objective or be aware if they are talking in shorthand, but instead they can end up leaving holes in what they are saying. They can assume everyone knows what they are meaning. And this unfortunately causes opportunities later by listeners for them to have been misunderstood.

This I have noticed happens a lot with those interviewed, and are of interest to the hoaxers/beLIEvers. The beLIEvers sometimes take off with things because someone mis-spoke or spoke in shorthand.

Very important to listen carefully, to try to understand the full context of what is being said, and not always take things so literally.

But I admit she was confusing in the way she omitted that he had already moved out of the hotel and was then at that time residing at Carolwood at "the VERY end."

Hope that helps a little. :)

(btw~ those pictures make me sad to look at, for they take me back to a time when the fans were so very excited to see photos such as these; it always made our day! I miss those times) :(
 
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Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Shila said:
This I have noticed happens a lot with those interviewed, and are of interest to the hoaxers/beLIEvers. The beLIEvers sometimes take off with things because someone mis-spoke or spoke in shorthand.

Very important to listen carefully, to try to understand the full context of what is being said, and not always take things so literally.
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Wow! :eek: Calm.... I talked about it here because it was very confusing to me. :unsure: Sorry... :fear: And thanks for answering.





Shila said:
(btw~ those pictures make me sad to look at, for they take me back to a time when the fans were so very excited to see photos such as these; it always made our day! I miss those times) :(
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Yes.... :cry:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Oh, Ash...I meant no offense to you. I understand that English is your second language and Kathy Hilton was unclear. I was speaking in general of many who believe in the hoax or "beLIEvers" (not all) who just take off with very little. Not you (I respect your sharp mind, Ashtanga). But this was an example of this sort of thing, I felt, and I am fairly sure you were not the only one who was confused by Kathy's way of explaining things. It's very easy to understand the confusion here in this case. :hug: Okay? :)
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Shila said:
Oh, Ash...I meant no offense to you. I understand that English is your second language and Kathy Hilton was unclear. I was speaking in general of many who believe in the hoax or "beLIEvers" (not all) who just take off with very little. Not you (I respect your sharp mind, Ashtanga). But this was an example of this sort of thing, I felt, and I am fairly sure you were not the only one who was confused by Kathy's way of explaining things. It's very easy to understand the confusion here in this case. :hug: Okay? :)
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Ok. No problem. ;) Yes, Kathy did not really help much. LOL :fear:
 
does this help - to confuse us more?

http://carriefisher.com/?p=439

July 6th, 2009
I visited him over the Christmas holiday at that weirdly expensive rental home somewhere here in Southern Cal. What’s odd is that I see fans laying flowers in front of homes that I don’t think Michael ever lived in.
 
mj_forever;3401519 said:
does this help - to confuse us more?

http://carriefisher.com/?p=439

July 6th, 2009
I visited him over the Christmas holiday at that weirdly expensive rental home somewhere here in Southern Cal. What’s odd is that I see fans laying flowers in front of homes that I don’t think Michael ever lived in.
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:wtf:


:doh:



Oh God.... This is a complete mess. :fear:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Why are there two other threads about the hoax? Can't y'all just post here? lol Makes no sense coming from people that say they don't care for the hoax or don't believe in it. Then why give it soo much attention for? Weird! SMH

http://youtu.be/VravJQtJ6RE

 
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Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I don't get these videos (Truth Serum). They're very informative but it's like the poster has one hour of video about some "3"-theory and 3 big cities and 3 big religions with no real explanation how all of this has something to do with Michael Jackson and while I do believe Michael had a lot of interest in nemurology, the only thing this video is based on SO FAR is one coincidental shot of Michael pointing to the sky with orianthi and a dancer next to him. I find it rather confusing-video and not a hoax one.

But I have to say something else.

The tape about the 'jews' that was published by the end of 2005 or early 2006 was recorded in earlier times - around 2003. The tape got "leaked" by a jewish person himself, hence Michael told this thing to a jew friend and obviously didn't mean all jews or anything like that, otherwise he'd keep it to himself, or tell it to someone who's not a jew, don't you agree?

Anyways this man kept his phone machine recordings close for more than 2 years cause he knew one day he won't be working for Michael anymore and some of his tapes could be easily manipulated - doesn't even mean he had to EDIT those tapes, just to publish them with no context. Anyone remembers who's this person? UMM.. Dieter Wiesner! He also leaked some "tape" (more like 3 sec of it) last year making Michael sound like a total paranoid (from 2003). Again, no words on why and what made Michael say what he said.

I've never heard Michael using ANY political term - Zionism is a political term and to me Michael was way beyond politics and always avoided questions about it. In this highly manipulated tape Michael talks about jews and the poster tried to imply Michael meant what he said just not on all jews just 'all zionists' that's Bullshit. He said Jews, he meant Jews he talked about very specific jewish people who has nothing to do with zionism and I can think of some names of employees or so called friends that could be the ones he's talking about. Not all jews and not a political group. Fact is, Michael was still a friend of other jews and worked with them till 2009 as he kept working with muslims and christians all the way.

So this user is obviously trying to use the hoax as an excuse to promote some POLITICAL view and get himself some believers on the way. Thanks Blue for the videos, I hope you don't take it personaly, lol, it's the poster, not you:)
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Hi everyone has anyone seen the MJ hoax blog? Who is this Illusion 777?

http://www.mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/

This is probably already been posted but I'm trying to do some catching up with MJ stuff as I've been away. So what do you think - bs?
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Thanks Suzie. Good site and also there is some good links in there to some videos Id like to put up here when I get the time.


For now i just have Pearls latest, which is a bit intriguing! :D


Funny about those other threads hey Blue! Maybe they will end up in here ??



 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

InvincibleTal said:
I don't get these videos (Truth Serum). They're very informative but it's like the poster has one hour of video about some "3"-theory and 3 big cities and 3 big religions with no real explanation how all of this has something to do with Michael Jackson and while I do believe Michael had a lot of interest in nemurology, the only thing this video is based on SO FAR is one coincidental shot of Michael pointing to the sky with orianthi and a dancer next to him. I find it rather confusing-video and not a hoax one.
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Me too. :fear: I still can not understand what is the point of MJFanFOREVERAndADAY with these videos from the series "Truth Serum". :unsure: Maybe BlueTopez can give us a brief explanation. :D :blushing:






Suzie B said:
Hi everyone has anyone seen the MJ hoax blog? Who is this Illusion 777?

http://www.mjhoaxlive.blogspot.com/

This is probably already been posted but I'm trying to do some catching up with MJ stuff as I've been away. So what do you think - bs?
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:unsure:



To me... Illusion777 it seems to be someone playing with the believers. :fear:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Maura/Brandi had me hooked until she defended Oprah in one of her videos. However, magicalxscapism is good but no new videos lately. : (

Im also into Flem18's series about Michael being a twin!
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

InvincibleTal said:
I don't get these videos (Truth Serum). They're very informative but it's like the poster has one hour of video about some "3"-theory and 3 big cities and 3 big religions with no real explanation how all of this has something to do with Michael Jackson and while I do believe Michael had a lot of interest in nemurology, the only thing this video is based on SO FAR is one coincidental shot of Michael pointing to the sky with orianthi and a dancer next to him. I find it rather confusing-video and not a hoax one.

But I have to say something else.

The tape about the 'jews' that was published by the end of 2005 or early 2006 was recorded in earlier times - around 2003. The tape got "leaked" by a jewish person himself, hence Michael told this thing to a jew friend and obviously didn't mean all jews or anything like that, otherwise he'd keep it to himself, or tell it to someone who's not a jew, don't you agree?

Anyways this man kept his phone machine recordings close for more than 2 years cause he knew one day he won't be working for Michael anymore and some of his tapes could be easily manipulated - doesn't even mean he had to EDIT those tapes, just to publish them with no context. Anyone remembers who's this person? UMM.. Dieter Wiesner! He also leaked some "tape" (more like 3 sec of it) last year making Michael sound like a total paranoid (from 2003). Again, no words on why and what made Michael say what he said.

I've never heard Michael using ANY political term - Zionism is a political term and to me Michael was way beyond politics and always avoided questions about it. In this highly manipulated tape Michael talks about jews and the poster tried to imply Michael meant what he said just not on all jews just 'all zionists' that's Bullshit. He said Jews, he meant Jews he talked about very specific jewish people who has nothing to do with zionism and I can think of some names of employees or so called friends that could be the ones he's talking about. Not all jews and not a political group. Fact is, Michael was still a friend of other jews and worked with them till 2009 as he kept working with muslims and christians all the way.

So this user is obviously trying to use the hoax as an excuse to promote some POLITICAL view and get himself some believers on the way. Thanks Blue for the videos, I hope you don't take it personaly, lol, it's the poster, not you:)
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The '3 cities' is largely 'stolen' from illuminati/NWO stuff with some heavy emphasis on a Jewish Hollywood conspiracy. If you'll dare to look into that you'll find plenty of NWO conspiracy stuff that finds a spin off in "Michael Jackson, the MK Ultra mind controlled puppet" in conspiracy circles. Nothing new, they just somehow tried to find a way to introduce MJ into that stuff.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

If michael is alive or murdered believe there's more than just mj death conspiracy and it's not just a Michael Jackson issue. I heard of NWO but I don't think that's the deal... Though some connections do make sense.

I didn't mention it on my earlier post but I'm Jewish myself. The so called racist tapes had me doing a lot of research not cause I thought Michael is a racist but cause people kept talking about and I along with other fans had to come up with some legit points. So the whole thing on this video was kinda upsetting. I wish deiter nothing but bad things cause the tapes he leaked always were misunderstood and showed Michael in a very bad light and now fans actually support it. If he's so sure Michael is so weird why didn't he leak the whole tapes and not 7 sec each time? Ummmm agendas!
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

InvincibleTal said:
...

I didn't mention it on my earlier post but I'm Jewish myself. The so called racist tapes had me doing a lot of research not cause I thought Michael is a racist but cause people kept talking about ...
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Every clear thinking person can see that Michael Jackson isn't some antisemitic, narrow minded bigot, but hey, even Diana Sawyer tried to go down that route already in the 90ies. It's a futile attempt at slandering Michael once more which is why MJ fans should be vigilant when Michael of all people shows up in videos that are conveniently antisemitic.

However, some people have a political axe to grind, just as you said. Those that hate the very guts of Michael Jackson, would love nothing more than for others to pave the way- by helping them associate Michael Jackson with less than kosher motives. I as MJ fan stay the heck away from anything that lumps him into that category. People have always been riding Michael coat tails, and certain conspiracy folks would love nothing more than to utilize Michael Jackson for their own nasty mind sets.
 
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