The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

[ivy]

Taryll Jackson claims he was at a meeting where Teddy Riley admitted that the vocals weren't Michael's.

Riley says he just humored Taryll because he wasn't listening to opposite views. so it's he said versus he said

Completely incorrect. Unfortunately.

Among the police snaps is one showing a bottle of anti-anxiety drug Alprazolum, also known as Xanax, in the name Frank Tyson — prescribed by Dr Klein.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2530029/Michael-Jackson-coroners-drug-report.html

I don't see how this is relevant. If you read the recent documents there were prescriptions in the name of Kai Chase (Chef) , Faheem Muhammed (bodyguard), Michael Amir Williams (assistant) and even Michael's son Prince Jackson. It doesn't mean all these people (including Michael's son) are shady or providing Michael drugs , it just means that their names are put on the prescriptions. It doesn't even mean that they knew their names being used. I live in the US and never once I have been asked an ID in any doctors office or at a pharmacy.

I can prove that neither of you can prove.

true

 

[samhabib]

If it's a total fraud,

That would mean that In less than 2 days, cascio and Porte agreed to fool everybody...

In less than 2 days when the whole world was crying...some of you think that they were thinking about to fraud...

Yep. That pretty much sums up my belief.

Or are you claiming it's a coincidence that they waited for him to die to register songs that most of the fans on MJJC claim are not authentic?

 

[Wenghua]

^^ songbook....songs...what's the difference?

Some examples of a songbook (=Liederbuch/raccolta di canzoni/cancionero/recueil de chansons/cancioneiro) you can buy and use if you e.g. study music or play some instruments:

Michael Jackson: Number Ones (Piano/Vocal/Guitar) (Pvg) [Paperback]

The Essential Michael Jackson: Piano/Vocal/Chords [Paperback]

Michael Jackson- Thriller (Alfred's Classic Album Editions) [Sheet music]

The Michael Jackson Karaoke Songbook 1

Michael Jackson -- Invincible: Piano/Vocal/Chords (Sheet music)

The Complete Beatles Gift Pack (Piano/Vocal/Guitar Artist Songbook) [Box set]

 

[samhabib]

If everything was legitimate about those songs, why didn't Michael Jackson - the king of music publishing - register those songs while he was alive? The man that knew everything there is to know about music publishing. Why wouldn't he register them? I haven't heard one convincing argument for that.

 

[Kapital77]

Sam, glad to see you again...

Hope one day the truth will come out.

 

[samhabib]

^ Thanks dude!

Love that avatar. You know I'm a big GM fan, too, right?

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

We are not hypocritical. Do you understand what that word means? Because I don't know how many times you repeated that word in different threads.

First of all, I didn't say you were a hypocrite, I was speaking on one person and one person only. Do you know what that word hypocrite means? If so, it's easy to tell the hypocrisy that lies in that one post from that member alone.

Taryll Jackson claims he was at a meeting where Teddy Riley admitted that the vocals weren't Michael's. Unless anyone can prove that's not the truth, don't waste your time name-calling and claiming other fans are 'hypocrites'.

Alright look, I'm beginning to doubt you know what hypocrisy means. READ THIS, READ...You ask us to provide you a very good reason as to why Taryll would lie about the meeting, but at the same time, you haven't given one good reason as to why Teddy Riley, Sony, and the Estate would also lie about a meeting with forensic analysts, and with other producers Michael worked with. You have no proof that they're lying, I have no proof that Taryll is lying, yet you're disputing the possibility of him lying without any proof that he's being honest. But at the same time, claiming Sony is lying, because they have no proof of such meeting ever happening..THAT'S HYPOCRITICAL.

Completely incorrect. Unfortunately.

Among the police snaps is one showing a bottle of anti-anxiety drug Alprazolum, also known as Xanax, in the name Frank Tyson — prescribed by Dr Klein.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2530029/Michael-Jackson-coroners-drug-report.html

This, is completely inaccurate. Like I said before, just because his name was on the bottle doesn't mean he was the one buying and using the medication. Like Ivy pointed out, there were other pill bottles found with other names on them, unfortunately the majority of those bottles found reportedly belonged to Michael himself. That's not shady on Franks part, and I find it really weird that you'd assume Michael was just keeping the meds in storage in LA while Frank Cascio was in New Jersey.



You also ignored every other point I made in my previous post regarding other members of the Jackson clan and their lack of respect for Michael, just like I said you would.

 

[ivy]

If everything was legitimate about those songs, why didn't Michael Jackson - the king of music publishing - register those songs while he was alive? The man that knew everything there is to know about music publishing. Why wouldn't he register them? I haven't heard one convincing argument for that.

Isn't this answered? Brad Buxter and MJ's estate has registered several songs after MJ's death as well. Apparently there are some stuff that hasn't been registered by the time they are written.

As a relevant example "Hollywood Tonight" isn't registered until December 2009 and that song is written during Invincible. Does late registration make it not legitimate?

at copyright.gov website you can search for it by the registration number of :
PAu003442584

 

[Arklove]

We're not hypocrites?

A lot of you need to step back, and realize how hypocritical you all are getting in regards to this situation.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

We're not hypocrites?

So bashing and calling someone a liar over a statement made with no proof, but then at the same time, supporting someone else over a similar statement, which was also made with no proof, isn't hypocritical?


Please, tell me what is.

 

[samhabib]

First of all, I didn't say you were a hypocrite, I was speaking on one person and one person only. Do you know what that word hypocrite means? If so, it's easy to tell the hypocrisy that lies in that one post from that member alone.




Alright look, I'm beginning to doubt you know what hypocrisy means. READ THIS, READ...You ask us to provide you a very good reason as to why Taryll would lie about the meeting, but at the same time, you haven't given one good reason as to why Teddy Riley, Sony, and the Estate would also lie about a meeting with forensic analysts, and with other producers Michael worked with. You have no proof that they're lying, I have no proof that Taryll is lying, yet you're disputing the possibility of him lying without any proof that he's being honest. But at the same time, claiming Sony is lying, because they have no proof of such meeting ever happening..THAT'S HYPOCRITICAL.



This, is completely inaccurate. Like I said before, just because his name was on the bottle doesn't mean he was the one buying and using the medication. Like Ivy pointed out, there were other pill bottles found with other names on them, unfortunately the majority of those bottles found reportedly belonged to Michael himself. That's not shady on Franks part, and I find it really weird that you'd assume Michael was just keeping the meds in storage in LA while Frank Cascio was in New Jersey.*



You also ignored every other point I made in my previous post regarding other members of the Jackson clan and their lack of respect for Michael, just like I said you would.

You claimed that his name wasn't on the bottles. Which was completely inocorrect. Why did you claim that when the truth was otherwise?

You've slandered the Jackson clan in order to avoid discussing their claims. Prove that they're wrong regarding these songs. If you can't do so, don't bother slandering them for prior misdemeanors. You can't prove them wrong so you're trying your best to discredit them.

You're claiming the vocals are Michael's. Hence you're claiming Taryll's lying. Hence the onus is on you to prove it. You can't? Of course you can't.

One good reason why Teddy Riley and the Cascios and the Estate would lie? I could give you 250 million.

Save the English language lesson. There's nothing you could teach me about the English language. The hypocrite is the person who claims there's no conspiracy but then believes, by definition, that there has to be one.

I hear the audio. And like the majority of the people voting in this poll, I doubt their authenticity. Interesting that. So like the majority I doubt the 'proof' that supports the tracks. That sound nothing like Michael Jackson to the majority of fans. And to members of his own family.*

Prove Taryll is lying. In fact, for a start, give me a motive for him to lie. Can you do that? No. You can't. So think of that the next time you try to call anyone a hypocrite.

 

[Jesta]

OK, while I swore to never venture into this thread again, I just have to say some things:

I'd say Taryll has got a motive: Jealousy. MJ had only recorded two songs with 3T, and when Taryll found out that he had recorded 12 songs with his second family, he felt betrayed, in a way. Funny how Taryll claims that Teddy said that he is so happy that he got a "real MJ song: Hollywood Tonight" and we all know who stars in this one: Taryll. I know that you'll say that I can't prove that, and I can't, it's just a theory based on what I've read. But you can't prove that Teddy and the Estate are motivated by money, and would lie about this for the money. After all, Teddy said that he wasn't getting paid for this.

And you were being hypocritical in your last post. You berate Annie for slandering the Jackson clan on their prior misdemeanors, but you did the same thing to Teddy in one of your previous posts. So I'll side with Annie in this debate.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

OK, while I swore to never venture into this thread again, I just have to say some things:

I'd say Taryll has got a motive: Jealousy. MJ had only recorded two songs with 3T, and when Taryll found out that he had recorded 12 songs with his second family, he felt betrayed, in a way. Funny how Taryll claims that Teddy said that he is so happy that he got a "real MJ song: Hollywood Tonight" and we all know who stars in this one: Taryll. I know that you'll say that I can't prove that, and I can't, it's just a theory based on what I've read. But you can't prove that Teddy and the Estate are motivated by money, and would lie about this for the money. After all, Teddy said that he wasn't getting paid for this.

And you were being hypocritical in your last post. You berate Annie for slandering the Jackson clan on their prior misdemeanors, but you did the same thing to Teddy in one of your previous posts. So I'll side with Annie in this debate.

Great point!

Taryll is jaelous. Yes it is a fact. We don't know what kind of person is Taryll, we never talked to him, never been with him, never spent a single nanosecond with him, but for sure we can judge him as a jaelous person. Yep.

Only two songs. Taryll is probably crying everyday that he recorded only two songs. Yup. He actually wanted to create 3T+1M band and record more or less 12 songs or more for an album, but Michael probably refused, so that's why Taryll is jaelous.

Hollywood Tonight, it is "true" that without Taryll this song would have been a disaster and Taryll knows it. It is also "true" that Hollywood Tonight "sucks" compared to the Cascio tracks.

Of course, neither Teddy nor Estate are motivated by money. They are very famous charity people who refuse to get a cent for their contribution to the project. On top of that, Teddy said it. The one who claimed that there was a conspiracy from A-Z and that the truth will come ot and later who affirmed that Mike is on the songs. hmm, hmm, hmm

And YES! Shout it loud, we all are being HYPOCRITICAL. We are dumb, stupid and blind to see how hypocritical we are. We should be shot on sight, because our opinions are just like a cancer spreading over the boards.

 

[Jesta]

Wow, you've completely taken my post the wrong way. First of all, I said that it was a THEORY! I never said that what I was saying could be proven by me or anyone else on this board. Also, you berate people for saying that you're conspiracy theorists, but at the same time berate Teddy for his beliefs? That's somewhat low. The Estate's job is to protect and continue Michael's legacy, NOT for their own financial gain, only to financially secure his children. Finally, I didn't say you were ALL being hypocritical, and I definitely don't have those extremist views you outlined in your lost few sentences. Granted, I hate all of this fighting and it is getting these people nowhere, but I would never think what you outlined in your last paragraph.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Wow, you've completely taken my post the wrong way. First of all, I said that it was a THEORY! I never said that what I was saying could be proven by me or anyone else on this board. Also, you berate people for saying that you're conspiracy theorists, but at the same time berate Teddy for his beliefs? That's somewhat low. The Estate's job is to protect and continue Michael's legacy, NOT for their own financial gain, only to financially secure his children. Finally, I didn't say you were ALL being hypocritical, and I definitely don't have those extremist views you outlined in your lost few sentences. Granted, I hate all of this fighting and it is getting these people nowhere, but I would never think what you outlined in your last paragraph.

What I outlined actually --set aside all the details-- is that many people come here and speak about the Jacksons family as trying to take advantage of Michael's fame and money. Fine, we can agree based on numerous statements from different Jacksons members that they are indeed trying to get their piece of cake.

But, I cannot agree that because of some individuals in that family we judge some individuals that we don't even know! It is called racism. Not based on the color, but on the family name! If it happens that you are a member of the big Jacksons family why are you automaticly judged as a jaelous, liar, or I don't know what.

Taryll, to my knowledge never made any kind of fuss. The only time he did it is with these Cascio songs.

If we, fans, all heard Michael on those songs and Taryll claimed the contrary, I would understand your reaction.

But the matter of the fact is, that regardless what Taryll says, many fans -me included- doubt those tracks. We can't hear Michael's voice there! Are we too jaelous not to be part of the Michael's album because of our opinion or are you going to claim that we are brainwashed by Taryll which would be quite honestly ridiculous, since many of us even didn't know what Taryll said on twitter.

By the way, if you take one part of Taryll's statement from twitter,why don't you quote the whole post? Why don't you quote the part where he says that Teddy himself told Taryll that what they heard wasn't michael? Are you going to call Taryll a liar without any proof, yet quoting his half posts to fit your theory? Why don't we give him the benefit of doubt and try to find out what was really said. Why Teddy never denied what he had said to Taryll?




p.s. It is not important if Taryll took part in Hollywood Tonight or not. The question is is it a good MJ song or not? And we were many to say indeed that the song is awesome!

 

[Jesta]

OK, I can see your point in that post, and I can agree with you that it does seem that everyone with the Jackson name does get dumped on. That being said, that theory regarding Taryll was only my conclusion based on what I have read. From my recollection, from that quote I used he spoke about how Teddy allegedly felt bad about lying on Oprah. However, that was disputed by Teddy on his Twitter account.

I only posted on here in the first place because there was arguing about hypocrisy and proof etc. and while NONE of us have any proof of anything to do with these tracks on here, I'm sick of people berating others for their opinion and stating their opinion as fact (one example was when I was happy over the Estate's statement, and others said it was all BS and immediately dismissed it, even though said statement puts them in a tight legal bind if they are found out to be involved in fraud). It's incredibly upsetting. I love "Breaking News" from the first moment I heard it, but it was ruined for me for a time because of people's negativity towards people that liked it. I respect others' opinions, but I can't stand it when people don't respect others' opinions. I find this debate meaningless besides allowing people to argue. There is no good conclusion to be seen here, so I'm not going to bother turning up in this board again, it's just not worth it.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

OK, I can see your point in that post, and I can agree with you that it does seem that everyone with the Jackson name does get dumped on. That being said, that theory regarding Taryll was only my conclusion based on what I have read. From my recollection, from that quote I used he spoke about how Teddy allegedly felt bad about lying on Oprah. However, that was disputed by Teddy on his Twitter account.

I only posted on here in the first place because there was arguing about hypocrisy and proof etc. and while NONE of us have any proof of anything to do with these tracks on here, I'm sick of people berating others for their opinion and stating their opinion as fact (one example was when I was happy over the Estate's statement, and others said it was all BS and immediately dismissed it, even though said statement puts them in a tight legal bind if they are found out to be involved in fraud). It's incredibly upsetting. I love "Breaking News" from the first moment I heard it, but it was ruined for me for a time because of people's negativity towards people that liked it. I respect others' opinions, but I can't stand it when people don't respect others' opinions. I find this debate meaningless besides allowing people to argue. There is no good conclusion to be seen here, so I'm not going to bother turning up in this board again, it's just not worth it.

I understand your frustration, but the negativity from some fans had been here before the Cascio. And I was also fed up with that negativity, as I like all MJ's songs. I actually was never so active since the Cascio tracks were released. But as a huge fan I cannot remain silent over those tracks. They are definetely not usual MJ's voice. Look at all the fuss and the number of people doubting them.

 

[samhabib]

OK, while I swore to never venture into this thread again, I just have to say some things:

I'd say Taryll has got a motive: Jealousy. MJ had only recorded two songs with 3T, and when Taryll found out that he had recorded 12 songs with his second family, he felt betrayed, in a way. Funny how Taryll claims that Teddy said that he is so happy that he got a "real MJ song: Hollywood Tonight" and we all know who stars in this one: Taryll. I know that you'll say that I can't prove that, and I can't, it's just a theory based on what I've read. But you can't prove that Teddy and the Estate are motivated by money, and would lie about this for the money. After all, Teddy said that he wasn't getting paid for this.

And you were being hypocritical in your last post. You berate Annie for slandering the Jackson clan on their prior misdemeanors, but you did the same thing to Teddy in one of your previous posts. So I'll side with Annie in this debate.

Ahhh... at least we now have a motive, albeit a very weak one. Consider, however, that most fans don't doubt the authenticity on Hollywood Tonight. And then consider that most fans do doubt the authenticity of the Cascio tracks. Are you going to claim that most fans are wrong?

Be honest, do you believe that Teddy Riley hasn't been paid for this? That he's worked on this multi-million selling project for free? While his reputation has been decimated before our very eyes? You believe that?*

I asked questions pertaining to those that publicly claimed the vocals were bogus. Not one person on here could prove that they were lying. And, because they couldn't do so, resorted to slandering them, instead. When I pointed out that Teddy Riley and the Cascios, etc were less trustworthy (hence slandering the Jackson family, Cory Rooney, Tony Kurtis, etc was a waste of time) I was then called a hypocrite. No... the hypocrite is the one who claims there is no conspricy. But believes in one, by definition, when believing the songs are genuine.

And all the while most fans doubt the authenticity of the vocals on the Cascio songs... let's not forget that part of the equation any time soon.

I'm all ears. If anyone can prove Taryll is lying, I'd love to hear it. Instead of trying to slander him, prove him wrong.*

 

[Jesta]

While I said that that I wouldn't return here, and thus being a hypocrite myself, I found an interesting interview by Michael's long-time painter that might be worthwhile to read:

"He was so much fun to be around. It wasn't all darkness. We'd laugh so much. He had a great sense of humor, loved practical jokes....We'd be walking along and he'd break out into song. But not like Michael Jackson. He would sing like it was a man in the shower, just singing. I hated to see that joy go out of his life because he was a very joyful person. He was a happy person and just great fun to be around."

Source: http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/interviewwithdavidnordahl.html

(C) 2010 Deborah L. Kunesh.

Based on this, my theory is that in a professional setting i.e. studios, he would be expecting to sing like "himself", i.e. give it that Michael Jackson flare. However, while in the private company of people he regarded as his second family, he didn't need to give it that flare, that spark that makes his music what it is. As what is quoted, people would sing differently in privacy than in company. Even during "This Is It", he was in the company of his backup dancers and other people involved in the show and thus continued to give his vocals the magic that only he could provide. Again, just a theory and I don't wish to be flamed for it.

 

[deano]

Sanhabib.

You seem to have very twisted, probably selective, ideas on what should be considered 'proof' or not.

You seem to be saying that; if one of the Jacksons said something happened then it should be accepted unless posters on here can prove otherwise - is that right?

Is it only members of the Jackson family that this applies to, or does the apply to everybody?

Perhaps you can enlighten me, as I'm confused.

 

[ivy]

Everyone should really stop asking for proof as we all know that nobody can prove anything.

All we have is opinions, theories, and possible explanations.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

While I said that that I wouldn't return here, and thus being a hypocrite myself, I found an interesting interview by Michael's long-time painter that might be worthwhile to read:

"He was so much fun to be around. It wasn't all darkness. We'd laugh so much. He had a great sense of humor, loved practical jokes....We'd be walking along and he'd break out into song. But not like Michael Jackson. He would sing like it was a man in the shower, just singing. I hated to see that joy go out of his life because he was a very joyful person. He was a happy person and just great fun to be around."

Source: http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/interviewwithdavidnordahl.html

(C) 2010 Deborah L. Kunesh.






Based on this, my theory is that in a professional setting i.e. studios, he would be expecting to sing like "himself", i.e. give it that Michael Jackson flare. However, while in the private company of people he regarded as his second family, he didn't need to give it that flare, that spark that makes his music what it is. As what is quoted, people would sing differently in privacy than in company. Even during "This Is It", he was in the company of his backup dancers and other people involved in the show and thus continued to give his vocals the magic that only he could provide. Again, just a theory and I don't wish to be flamed for it.

I strongly suggest you to watch Michael Jackson "Unauthorized", an interview from the 80s, between Thriller and Bad era. You will see there what was that painter referring to, but you will also see that the conclusion you drew won't match with what you will hear (related to the voice).

 

[Jesta]

Interesting. I will take a look at it now. Does it show him singing "without his flare"?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Interesting. I will take a look at it now. Does it show him singing "without his flare"?

It is a very interesting interview. You will see Michael in Encino fully relaxed, full of joy, speaking, being at ease and all of sudden starting singing. He is even talking about the Liberian Girl song before BAD album was released. The reason why he's full of joy is simply because he's easily amazed by all the things he is surrounded by. To him everything was magical.


Here the links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7BD1BD-OZ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=278RQJhkNmA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jwt3fukokc&feature=related

 

[Jesta]

This is the interview where he is wearing a red jacket, right? It's incredible! Though it's kind of hard to hear with the fountain in the background. I'll agree with you there, he looks incredibly relaxed and at peace. It's like he hasn't got a care in the world. I wish he could've enjoyed that peace and tranquility a little more. The spontaneous singing is also very sweet.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

This is the interview where he is wearing a red jacket, right? It's incredible! Though it's kind of hard to hear with the fountain in the background. I'll agree with you there, he looks incredibly relaxed and at peace. It's like he hasn't got a care in the world. I wish he could've enjoyed that peace and tranquility a little more. The spontaneous singing is also very sweet.

Yes, indeed, he breathed joy and magic. But his voice remained his voice, even when he was relaxed. Don't you agree?

 

[Jesta]

I will agree with you there, but here's the thing: Everyone at my school knows that O'm incredibly stubborn with my opinion and I simply hear MJ in the Cascio songs. I'll agree with you or anyone that says that the lead vocals are minuscule compared to the background vocals, as that's the one they wanted people to focus on. I do wish we had more examples of him singing relaxed, especially a song that we can compare to, like "Smooth Criminal" which has a lot of his flare...

Regardless, this is the kind of debate that I like, one where we're respectful and try to enlighten people, rather than things being shoved in people's faces.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I will agree with you there, but here's the thing: Everyone at my school knows that O'm incredibly stubborn with my opinion and I simply hear MJ in the Cascio songs. I'll agree with you or anyone that says that the lead vocals are minuscule compared to the background vocals, as that's the one they wanted people to focus on. I do wish we had more examples of him singing relaxed, especially a song that we can compare to, like "Smooth Criminal" which has a lot of his flare...

Regardless, this is the kind of debate that I like, one where we're respectful and try to enlighten people, rather than things being shoved in people's faces.

Well I suppose that there must be more videos where Michael is relaxed. Like the home videos where for example he sings "The lost children" with his children. There might be hundreds of them there.

 

[Jesta]

Yeah, there must be. I wonder if we'll ever see them, though? What are the chances of the Estate wanting to release private home videos? Unfortunately very slim.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

You claimed that his name wasn't on the bottles. Which was completely inocorrect. Why did you claim that when the truth was otherwise?

You've slandered the Jackson clan in order to avoid discussing their claims. Prove that they're wrong regarding these songs. If you can't do so, don't bother slandering them for prior misdemeanors. You can't prove them wrong so you're trying your best to discredit them.

You're claiming the vocals are Michael's. Hence you're claiming Taryll's lying. Hence the onus is on you to prove it. You can't? Of course you can't.

One good reason why Teddy Riley and the Cascios and the Estate would lie? I could give you 250 million.

Save the English language lesson. There's nothing you could teach me about the English language. The hypocrite is the person who claims there's no conspiracy but then believes, by definition, that there has to be one.

I hear the audio. And like the majority of the people voting in this poll, I doubt their authenticity. Interesting that. So like the majority I doubt the 'proof' that supports the tracks. That sound nothing like Michael Jackson to the majority of fans. And to members of his own family.*

Prove Taryll is lying. In fact, for a start, give me a motive for him to lie. Can you do that? No. You can't. So think of that the next time you try to call anyone a hypocrite.

Seriously, you're a mess...As far as me saying Franks name weren't on the bottles, laughable, because in nowhere in my post did I say that. I didn't slander the Jackson Clan, I disputed your reasoning with facts, I didn't slander Tarryl, nor did I say he was lying, I said it's hypocritical that you believe he's being 100% honest without such proof that this meeting ever happened, yet at the same time, call Sony and The Estate liars for the same reason. It's utter stupidity, seriously, and you should cut it out.