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BUMPER SNIPPET
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Even if we try to ignore the voice timbre, there is one thing that cannot be ignored --the intonation which does not sound Michael's. In the song Monster, listen to the part when the singer sings "...stalking me". The way this phrase is said has neither Michael's stress, nor husk. It strangely sounds Jason Malachi's voice or maybe another impersonator's.
Dark Artist
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Yes, I agree, this part in particular was one of the deal-breakers for me.
Garden
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AnnieRUOkay89 said:
I just wondered when it was. Thank you Pentum and Annie for the info!
Yup, same here...
eighthnoterojo
Proud Member
Agreed.
Yep. It's outrageous, really. For me, it's just a continuation of the same twilight zone that started when MJ left us. I've given up trying to understand what the hell is going on.
In the end, the big picture (imo) is that all that MJ has accomplished in his lifetime has set his legacy in stone. These tracks cannot take that away. Lack of justice cannot take it away. No one can take it away.
Garden
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I don't hear anything wrong with the intonation in BN and Monster...
The"... stalking me" thing, I don't know where it comes from, the actual track or another track but it does not sound strange to me.
But, it's just a lay impression, I am no voice or language or diction specialist in any way.
I don't hear anything strange but some vibrato's that sound very unnatural to me, but maybe that is due to overprocessing?
What is "husk" actually?
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the thing is "faking vocals" in other words participating in "fraud" is a huge deal. okay "money" could be a motive for almost anything in life but the risks is also present. We mentioned this before: reputations, lawsuits, monetary fees, failure of future projects and even removal of estate executors (if they are knowing participants).
so is the argument that they will take such risks for money and yet be so bad in committing such an action, come up with (according to you) so obvious fake vocals, put themselves in a hot spot and attract attention to their actions?. Don't you think that if they were to fake it, they could have done a better job?
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
Well I am no voice or diction specialist either, but I am a language expert. And I can vouch that "...stalking me" is not pronounced the way Michael Jackson pronounces the words.
Michael's typical husky voice = rauw stem / voix rauque
Garden
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OK, maybe Michael pronounces his words always the same way and I just imagine that it is not always the same. I've said it already, I don't always trust my ears. Too much going on between my two ears
.I'm going to take a good listen again at that "stalking me", I remember that at first I liked the sound, but who knows that by now I will hear something different?
Thank you for explaining me "husk", I did not associate it with a husky lol! No serious, so it is "een rauwe stem". In my dictionary was a complete other explication but I could not link that to the sound of a voice, so there it had nothing to do with it I guess.
Language things... funny but I like all things about language. I'm very interested in it.
AnnieRUOkay89
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If the melodyne thing is true, then it can explain why the "husk" isn't there, the program takes away certain characteristics in a voice in order to correct a note.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
Fraud is unlawful, but hey stealing, murdering, selling drugs, etc too.
Look at the financial crisis that we have been going through (Thank you George)! It is happening because of fraudulous shares and Wall Street speculations. Many took part in this whole mess and some were put in jail, but some are untouchable.
Another example, a president who claims that there are weapons of mass destruction in a country, sends soldiers to kill and be killed and then says: "oops, sorry, we haven't found any weapon of mass destruction!" Well, was the president tried for his fraudulous war campaign? No, he wasn't. Furthermore some highest courts threw out war crime cases brought against the very President and his administration! Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, he was guaranteed diplomatical immunity.
Knowing some facts, I do not exclude the possibility that some big companies, such as SONY, (or the Estate, or whoever) could afford some (minor) frauds (especially when they are almost impossible to prove and protected by all kinds of legal and administrative contracts). Compared to what is going on all around the world, Cascio (fake?) tracks are a joke.
No. Are you even reading or trying to understand what I wrote? I said record companies that "lie, cheat and steal" could do a "better job".
On one had people say Sony to be this evil big corporation that has all the sources and money in the world that "lies, steals and cheats" and on the other hand they portray Sony as "dumb" that would come up with obvious fakes from an obvious impersonator.
this isn't really a comparison of evil in the world versus Cascio. I mean Joe has been suing the executors for everything under the sun - regardless of having proof or even a standing to sue. Not seeing a lawsuit speaks volumes to me.
samhabib
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Nope.
So what's the excuse this time? It's a coincidence that this track sounds like the same vocalist? Jason Malachi was using the same PVC pipe? He also had a Melodyne malfunction?
It's the same vocalist.
Garden
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Maybe that could explain why I sometimes hear the "husk" and sometimes not. Everything is probably not processed in exactly the same way or some parts are heavier processed than others, maybe that's why the "husky" is sometimes missing and sometimes it is there... and that "selective" processing is maybe also why the vibrato's are so strange "electronical" and the rest of the vocals are not but just a little bit sometimes....
Yes, I know, I sound a bit ridiculous, but I'm not strong in English lol.
samhabib
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Sony were found guilty for paying radio stations to play their songs. So, no, I don't think they'd do a 'better job'. If they could they wouldn't have been found guilty.
Do you think the songs sound like Michael Jackson? If you do then I can understand the reluctance to think Sony would be so 'dumb'. They sound nothing like Michael to me. So I'm up for believing the worst.
Garden
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Nope.
So what's the excuse this time? It's a coincidence that this track sounds like the same vocalist? Jason Malachi was using the same PVC pipe? He also had a Melodyne malfunction?
It's the same vocalist.
Melodyne malfunction? You mean function that turned out to be "mal"?
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I actually did not compare, I just pointed out that there are worse things in the world than putting fake tracks.
All in all, it doesn't mean necessarily that all SONY staff is aware of what is going on. If there are some responsibilities, they would probably be limited to some individuals within the company. It has happened before with other companies. Who made decisions and who was involved, those are questions to ask.
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BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
Well, I proposed to pick another Mike's demo that we all have (let's say "In the back"), use melodyne and do the same heavy processing with the demo in order to obtain exactly the same voice, husk, accent, intonation, etc. and to finally put an end to this debate.
Unfortunately, so far no one has taken up the challenge. As long as I don't hear the same result as on Cascio tracks with a demo that we all know and possess, I won't be convinced Cascio tracks are fully Mike's.
I read that post/news story and to be brutally honest everyone in the industry does that in one form or another and as everyone does it no one expected it to be an issue. I wrote several times that I worked in the music industry, you wouldn't believe even as a music band how many special treatments (free CD's , free concert tickets including travel costs) and how many exclusives etc we gave media for promotion and air play. It became an issue after some law changes. and believe it still continues in the form as "gifts" (not money) and "disclosure of gifts".
see this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola It's actually okay as long as it's disclosed as "sponsored".
I know who said it. I wrote people referring to the similar arguments done in this thread by members.
And again as a person who worked in the music industry I know how the record companies could be. I have seen from firsthand experienced how companies used deals to force the musicians. (The band I worked for was forced to release an album the record company wanted and not they wanted, another artist that rejected similar thing was kept from releasing anything for 5 years and financially forced to comply with the company. Most of which ended with artists leaving the companies and becoming independent , forming their own labels and only making distribution deals. ) So no arguments there , record companies are profit oriented entities that only think about their own good (they are almost never artist-friendly). But make no mistakes, they aren't dumb.
kasume
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voted no. its obvious what sony is trying to do to him. michael said it himself so dont argue with me. Argue with him and what he started.
He never made a public apology to sony after publicly denouncing them SEVERAL times. If everything was all sunshine with sony again, he would have told us. But he never did.
He never made a public apology to sony after publicly denouncing them SEVERAL times. If everything was all sunshine with sony again, he would have told us. But he never did.
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BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I agree. I have another favorite artist who had a problem with a company. They forced him to release an album which they considered as finished material while he considered it as pure demos and ideas. He left the company and his album is out despite his clear statement that the album contains only his ideas and demos.
As far as being dumb is considered, indeed, they are not dumb. We are dumb! We need to swallow our pride and ask ourselves how dumb are we. For my part here is how dumb I am. I possess all Michael Jackson's albums. Despite that I bought all the latest Michael Jackson's greatest hits CDs except The Essential (am still waiting to be dumb enough to buy it.).
Now here is the question:
-who (what company) released all those Greatest Hits?
-did you buy them? (was it really necessary?)
-have you ever felt fooled by SONY (because of the amount of greatest hits knowing that almost each Mike's new album was nothing else but every time a "greatest hits" album.)
-don't you have impression that SONY milked us? (And still is milking us?)
-with the new album SONY is treating us dumb because:
a) there are only 10 songs (I am not against that number, but...)
b)... 3 tracks are controversial (whether we want it or not)
c) "Hold on my hand" leaked in 2008
d) "Another day" leaked months before the album was released (all of sudden no one knows who leaked it or how the person who leaked it got the track)
e) "I like (the way you love me)" was already released in 2004
To sum up, out of 10 songs, 3 were released/leaked, 3 are controversial because of unrecognizable vocals. In addition the last track doesn't even contain 3 minutes, which is quite poor for a 10-track album.
So, indeed, SONY are not dumb! They are extremely clever and will continue to milk us. I bet they will add controversial vocals on the future albums.
Now, if I bought the album it is purely because of some jewels such as Hollywood Tonight and Behind The Mask. I would have bought the album if they were the only two tracks on it.
Now, another question: how come that undisputed and non-controversial tracks such as DYKWYCA, STTR and BG were not included on the album instead of the controversial tracks? Furthermore, why those controversial tracks were not part of a bonus cd, since they probably knew that thos tracks were going to trigger protests?
Yes, they think we are dumb, and we are.
Dark Artist
Proud Member
It's very hard for me to believe that whatever changes they made to his voice coincidentally made him sound more like Jason Malachi than himself.
It doesn't sound like MJ's voice altered. Hollywood Tonight and 2000 Watts sound like MJ's voice altered. The Cascio songs sound like Jason Malachi and I'm saying that because I've compared the Cascio tracks to Malachi's own songs.
It's very, very clear to see and I am astonished how it might elude anyone that these are all the same voice. With all due respect, that's how convinced I am!
It doesn't sound like MJ's voice altered. Hollywood Tonight and 2000 Watts sound like MJ's voice altered. The Cascio songs sound like Jason Malachi and I'm saying that because I've compared the Cascio tracks to Malachi's own songs.
It's very, very clear to see and I am astonished how it might elude anyone that these are all the same voice. With all due respect, that's how convinced I am!
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
Well, I think that it is so obvious that it is not MJ, that paradoxally some wouldn't imagine the slightest possibility that anyone would dare put fake tracks on a MJ album. It is so big that it is difficult to believe that there is a fraud.
AnnieRUOkay89
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DYKWYCA, STTR, and BG aren't marketable in this day and age. It's a sad fact, but the possibility of any of those three songs becoming a hit record is low. That's why they weren't included on the album, whether you like it or not, at least one of the Cascio tracks has the potential to be a hit record, and that's "Monster". I'm not saying this off of personal belief, I'm speaking solely on the praise it's gotten from fans and critics alike since the album came out. I would've preferred Blue Gangsta as opposed to Breaking News, but in 2010, in the eyes of the industry, the song is nothing more than a novelty item for us hardcore fans.
As for the whole Payola thing, record labels had been doing that since the early 90's, maybe even earlier, Sony was the only one to get caught for it, to my knowledge. If I'm not mistaken they were only found guilty of such a thing in the late 2000's, so a +10 year run, can't really be compared to this situation. If that's the case, it'll take almost 15 years for Sony to be exposed for fraud, by then more posthumous albums will have released, and whoever is against Sony, shall that time come, won't have a case in court because they waited so long. So if they can cover their tracks and have this "payola" thing remain under the radar for 10 years, I doubt they'd be stupid enough to make everything so obvious, this time around...But at the end of the day, who know's?
As far as 10 tracks on this record, that's probably something Michael would have wanted, out of all his album releases, only two have gone past the 10 song mark, Dangerous & Invincible. I'm not even sure if the 2nd disc of History had more than 12 tracks. So opting to put out a 10-song album, was probably something they felt should be done to continue his style.
As for the whole Payola thing, record labels had been doing that since the early 90's, maybe even earlier, Sony was the only one to get caught for it, to my knowledge. If I'm not mistaken they were only found guilty of such a thing in the late 2000's, so a +10 year run, can't really be compared to this situation. If that's the case, it'll take almost 15 years for Sony to be exposed for fraud, by then more posthumous albums will have released, and whoever is against Sony, shall that time come, won't have a case in court because they waited so long. So if they can cover their tracks and have this "payola" thing remain under the radar for 10 years, I doubt they'd be stupid enough to make everything so obvious, this time around...But at the end of the day, who know's?
As far as 10 tracks on this record, that's probably something Michael would have wanted, out of all his album releases, only two have gone past the 10 song mark, Dangerous & Invincible. I'm not even sure if the 2nd disc of History had more than 12 tracks. So opting to put out a 10-song album, was probably something they felt should be done to continue his style.
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BudzMJJ
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ok, so get the 4 casico tracks (though i haven't done it with all i need yet) and then download a music editing program like cool edit pro(adobe audition) or cuebase. Then load the tracks into it (not all at the same time) and use the pitch bender tool to adjust the pitch down a little. Not to much, about half a step worked. then liten to the songs again. It is SOOOO Michael on them. After avoiding all net discussions and other fans for the last week and doing nothing but listen to these 4 songs along with older MJ songs and the shitty Jason Malachi album, i have formed my final opinion. IT IS MICHAEL, deal with it. lol. na, no hard feelings, believe what u want, just don't try and convince me ur opinion is right, and i won't do it to u!
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