Of course it is your money, everyone makes their own decisions. But you're saying that you want to protect MJ's legacy etc. You think that letting Sony rip us off is protecting MJ's legacy? Do you think that MJ would want that? I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just trying to understand.
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Stop supporting Sony Music
- Thread starter killa.bee
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Of course it is your money, everyone makes their own decisions. But you're saying that you want to protect MJ's legacy etc. You think that letting Sony rip us off is protecting MJ's legacy? Do you think that MJ would want that? I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just trying to understand.
D.Electric
Proud Member
yeh it was me yesterday as well *shrugs* but i really dont feel the need to prove myself to a stranger on the internet, im just expressing my opinions and standing up for the fact that my words are being twisted by him
athina_livadi
Proud Member
I will buy his music because I want to honor him and I don't care about f@cking Sony. I buy only original CDs of Michael anyway. They can get the money and put it ......
Autumn II
Proud Member
I see this thread has spawned some incredible rudeness! It should be possible to have differences of opinion without becoming highly personal and name-calling. Obviously, whether or not to buy Sony products is a personal decision. No one should name-call or blame for whatever decisions others make! Please discuss, NOT argue.
Look at it this way:
Michael was/wasn't with Sony after Number Ones. He owed them that as a compilation album, but after that his contract ended as it was completed (MJ tried to have it terminated before this anyway). Sony went crazy over his stake in their company and apparently had NOTHING to do with the law suit filed against him the DAY Number Ones was released. Michael owns one of Sony's balls. Half of the ATV catalogue is a huge stake in Sony, close to half I woulda thought. They wanted to buy that from Michael from the mid 90's onwards, but MJ wouldn't sell. He hated Motolla more so because of his racism and treatment of "certain" Sony recording artists. Because Michael owns that part of the catalogue, Sony can only get a fraction of what they would get from the sale of what's in his half of the catalogue, most notably, MJ's songs and The Beatles' songs (Theres a crazy amount of artists in his section, including new ones like Lady Gaga and Eminem). So in real terms, lets say an MJ album is $10. After costs lets say $8 are there in profit (yeah, a little off I know
). MJ's royalties are just over $1.50 I'd say, and his owning means he also gets about $5 from the profit. What's left goes to the record label: $1.50. So tbh, the Estate loses out WAY more than Sony would, and lets face it, Sony aren't too strapped for cash after the BMG merge to Sony Music. That is all very simplified btw. Anyone who thought Michael had his head in the clouds is mad; Michael was one HELL of a business man!
... If you're not bother reading my essay up there, I don't think it's a good idea, MJ's family loses out more than Sony!
Oh btw, all the greatest hits releases had to be done. Michael was so far in debt that to keep the catalogue from going to auction (and Sony getting their hands on it), Michael had to prove he could still generate enough income to keep him, in legal terms, in the black.
Michael was/wasn't with Sony after Number Ones. He owed them that as a compilation album, but after that his contract ended as it was completed (MJ tried to have it terminated before this anyway). Sony went crazy over his stake in their company and apparently had NOTHING to do with the law suit filed against him the DAY Number Ones was released. Michael owns one of Sony's balls. Half of the ATV catalogue is a huge stake in Sony, close to half I woulda thought. They wanted to buy that from Michael from the mid 90's onwards, but MJ wouldn't sell. He hated Motolla more so because of his racism and treatment of "certain" Sony recording artists. Because Michael owns that part of the catalogue, Sony can only get a fraction of what they would get from the sale of what's in his half of the catalogue, most notably, MJ's songs and The Beatles' songs (Theres a crazy amount of artists in his section, including new ones like Lady Gaga and Eminem). So in real terms, lets say an MJ album is $10. After costs lets say $8 are there in profit (yeah, a little off I know
). MJ's royalties are just over $1.50 I'd say, and his owning means he also gets about $5 from the profit. What's left goes to the record label: $1.50. So tbh, the Estate loses out WAY more than Sony would, and lets face it, Sony aren't too strapped for cash after the BMG merge to Sony Music. That is all very simplified btw. Anyone who thought Michael had his head in the clouds is mad; Michael was one HELL of a business man!... If you're not bother reading my essay up there, I don't think it's a good idea, MJ's family loses out more than Sony!
Oh btw, all the greatest hits releases had to be done. Michael was so far in debt that to keep the catalogue from going to auction (and Sony getting their hands on it), Michael had to prove he could still generate enough income to keep him, in legal terms, in the black.
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mjjfan4ever
Proud Member
I am buying it. I have always bought MJ's music when he was here with us, I am certainly going to buy it now.
The press (not just tabs)- the press will have a field day if the TII movie or album is a flop.
If some fans are ok with that .... GREAT.. Don't buy it. If some fans are not ok with that or any other reason buy the album.
I understand and respect each and everyone's opinion on what they will do with their money based on what is acceptable according to their values and beliefs.
99% of fans would agree that WE HATE SONY..... But that hatred that I have for Sony will not be a tool used to diminish the legacy of Michael....
I am not sure why we all can't seem to respectfully agree or disagree with one another without every thread becoming a fight.
The press (not just tabs)- the press will have a field day if the TII movie or album is a flop.
If some fans are ok with that .... GREAT.. Don't buy it. If some fans are not ok with that or any other reason buy the album.
I understand and respect each and everyone's opinion on what they will do with their money based on what is acceptable according to their values and beliefs.
99% of fans would agree that WE HATE SONY..... But that hatred that I have for Sony will not be a tool used to diminish the legacy of Michael....
I am not sure why we all can't seem to respectfully agree or disagree with one another without every thread becoming a fight.
mjjfan4ever
Proud Member
IGNORE.... :better: No reason to bash your head against a wall:agree:
totally agree with what you have written..... :cheers:
To me, buying the album is like saying to Sony "I don't mind that you're ripping us off because it's MJ we're talking about". And that just gives them a reason to do this again, as long as people buy it and they make money.
If someone wants to buy it, it's their decision, their money. I just find it so hard to understand why you guys are willing to let Sony treat us like this. And saying that it's to protect MJ's legacy... I'm quite sure MJ wouldn't allow this.
If someone wants to buy it, it's their decision, their money. I just find it so hard to understand why you guys are willing to let Sony treat us like this. And saying that it's to protect MJ's legacy... I'm quite sure MJ wouldn't allow this.
michaels wendy bird
Proud Member
I bring the kids into the disscussion because they re the ones who will benefit from michaels music being sold legally!!! Do you not understand that????? And you are right the last thing the kids need is money i totally agree however what about in ten years time?? Why should they not be able to see Michaels music still selling??
Dont ever call me disrespectful again when all i see you do is come on this forum and slag off Michael!! Dont say you dont cause you do constantly!! I would happley quote all the posts where you have said some thing i find disrespectful but you are not worth the time!
:clapping::clapping:
So that means the fans should be continually ripped off from Sony just for the sake of MJ's children?? I dont agree sorry!
Well i do i wanna help those children as much as i can!!
How can you not care about tabloids when it regards Michael?? All his life he has been bashed by them do we really want it to continue now he has gone!!!
loveforever
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just remind you guys, michael's estate is not rich, still owned 400million debts. If you would like to see $ony finally get michael's music catalogs beacuse of the high debts. then congratulations for helping sony. In oder to keep his music catalog, Michael was fight for his entire life and borrowed billions dollars. buying michael's music is our way to protect his legacy and clean his debts as the Loyal Fans!
-fan-
Proud Member
Then, send them money and don't buy the Sony product
mjjfan4ever
Proud Member
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
good to see a voice of reason.. :cheers:
Autumn II
Proud Member
Very intelligent post, and thank you. It's one thing to be passionate about one's own opinion, and quite another to attack others because they share a different view. It doesn't cast a very good light on Michael's fans to be arguing this way. It "just ain't cool."
Everyone, take a giant step back and be careful how you speak to one-another.
Arty
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??????
You can buy a lot of products the estate is releasing-T-Shirts, Books, Poster etc etc.
You do not need to buy Sony products to help the estate. Not all estate releases are Sony products quite the opposite.
Nar
Proud Member
This is a very interesting topic... I had no idea the level of disturbance between Michael and Sony.
I have a real question to ask all of you who want the world to boycott any "official" MJ product from Sony, with so much passion and anger.
Where are we supposed to obtain our MJ music, concert DVDs, music video collections discs, etc? Surely non of you will suggest us to support illegal bootleg copies? Right?
So, if anyone can let me know, where I can indulge myself to Michael's music, legally, I'd love to help this boycott. Sure, why not. I could care less of the label, so long as its legal and professionally made.
Of course, I'm only making a point here.
In my opinion, I found that boycotts have ever hardly any damaging effects when you can't reach the masses with the protest. You'd have to convince millions of people at a single time to cause some type of effect and honestly, since I'm quite ignorant about the details behind all this boycotting and supporting issue, I've no idea if this will upset MJ's family or kids in the process. Though, you guys made very good and inspiring points about money, etc.
It is unfortunate what Sony did to Michael, as far as I recently read. But honestly, unless millions are convinced, a few hundred boycotting a product, is not going to make a dent.
So I find it quite frivolous, unfortunately, to call people "morons" as the original poster put it, for blindly buying a product, not for the sake of making Sony any money, but for the pure sake of owning a real licensed, professionally made MJ product. And its our right as his fans to want to have such products in our possession. No?
Though that's just my little ol' opinion.
But yeah, going back to that general question, where would I be able to grab my official MJ product if I wanted to obtain it (as a fan) while supporting this cause?
If someone else has legal rights to MJ's music, tours and videos, then I will join this cause and support whats right (as I educate myself more about this, that is).
But if not... then what can I do? And please don't tell me to download them illegally. Because then this whole thing will play out like a double end sword.
;0]
I have a real question to ask all of you who want the world to boycott any "official" MJ product from Sony, with so much passion and anger.
Where are we supposed to obtain our MJ music, concert DVDs, music video collections discs, etc? Surely non of you will suggest us to support illegal bootleg copies? Right?
So, if anyone can let me know, where I can indulge myself to Michael's music, legally, I'd love to help this boycott. Sure, why not. I could care less of the label, so long as its legal and professionally made.
Of course, I'm only making a point here.
In my opinion, I found that boycotts have ever hardly any damaging effects when you can't reach the masses with the protest. You'd have to convince millions of people at a single time to cause some type of effect and honestly, since I'm quite ignorant about the details behind all this boycotting and supporting issue, I've no idea if this will upset MJ's family or kids in the process. Though, you guys made very good and inspiring points about money, etc.
It is unfortunate what Sony did to Michael, as far as I recently read. But honestly, unless millions are convinced, a few hundred boycotting a product, is not going to make a dent.
So I find it quite frivolous, unfortunately, to call people "morons" as the original poster put it, for blindly buying a product, not for the sake of making Sony any money, but for the pure sake of owning a real licensed, professionally made MJ product. And its our right as his fans to want to have such products in our possession. No?
Though that's just my little ol' opinion.
But yeah, going back to that general question, where would I be able to grab my official MJ product if I wanted to obtain it (as a fan) while supporting this cause?
If someone else has legal rights to MJ's music, tours and videos, then I will join this cause and support whats right (as I educate myself more about this, that is).
But if not... then what can I do? And please don't tell me to download them illegally. Because then this whole thing will play out like a double end sword.
;0]
Autumn II
Proud Member
Downloading music illegally is. .ILLEGAL. (right) No one here should be advocating that. For those who choose to boycott Sony products. . . I'd expect you'd just have to go WITHOUT?
meena76
Proud Member
I'm already there. Michael wanted badly to get from under sony. There was no love there. I will buy nothing by Sony. The ones of you so worried about the estate. I have an idea SEND THE MONEY TO THE KIDS. Sony doesn't deserve a dime of Michael's or the kids money. Who cares how they get it and how we get his music, just as long as sony doesn't get a dime of it.
Arty
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yes you can do that but it is not necessary to send them cash in the mail.
Again You do not need to buy Sony products to help the estate. Not all estate releases are Sony products quite the opposite buy Posters, Books, you can buy all kinds of merchandise products in the future that the estate is and will be releasing.
The thread is called: "Stop supporting Sony Music" and not " Stop supporting the Estate"
Nar
Proud Member
Hahahahahaha Oh wow. Yeeeeaaah... This isn't gonna work. Hehe. ^_^
I think it's admirable if the protest here comes from true passion. Fighting for what's right. And to do it in a gentle and kind way so no one feels bad or left out.
But you gotta admit, that first post on page 1 was set up to insult people. Regardless of opinion.
Hey, it got me to post. lol.
These subject matters, in my experience, must be handled very very carefully. Lose the word "moron" and I'm almost sure no one would have taken offense to it.
Tell you what... I recently fell victim of purchasing what I thought was a legitimate MJ dvd product. (not the brief case set), And I felt like a big moron. lol
Take care everyone. And stop fighting.
loveforever
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wake up guys! do you think you can hurt $ony by boycotting his music? They are mutinational cooperations which owned hundreds billions dollars. Who is boycotting sony music? ONLY MICHAEL JACKSON'S FANS！！！！！YOU ARE HURTING MICHAEL'S LEGACY， NOT SONY! There are millions of other artists' fans supporting Sony’s music. you are only hurting michael, not sony. Michael estate still owned $400 MILLION DEBT and then "bankruptcy?". perhaps sony would be so happy to see that, they are just waiting for the chance to buy michael's music catalogue. This time Michael's fans help them get it, and what happened next? Sony will stop publishing michael's music cause no one buy it. Do you want to see this happened???????????
We all hate sony, but we have to support michael's music for his legacy.
We all hate sony, but we have to support michael's music for his legacy.
Peter_Pan
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Arty
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Didn´t you read my post above?? You can easily support the estate without buying Sony products.
Arty
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Good idea! I´ve already ordered my copy. Today most artists make more money with merchandise products than with album sales.
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Adore
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So Michael Jackson also falls into that category, right?
That statement just shows exactly how little you know about how Sony Music operates and the acts it signs. I suggest you go back and read my post and look at some of those lists, unless you're afraid to. There are thousands of artists signed under Sony Music and it's operating sub labels. You seem to be judging the entire Sony Music recording company based on just a few of their top selling/most famous acts. Miles Davis, for example, is under Sony Music. Marvin Gaye. Isaac Hayes. A.R. Rahman. That's just Columbia Records, and all I did was scroll randomly and stop, pluck out a name and repeat three times. If you are letting your blatant issues with a big corporation get in the way of supporting an artist which I assume you do actually support and buy the music of usually, then I feel sorry for you that you take yourself so seriously. This should not be about 'taking sides' with either Michael or Sony or no one at all. His legacy isn't going to live on by itself if the new generation of young fans don't see what kind of impact his music has on people. Success nowadays, means sales. Young would-be fans would probably be more likely to appreciate Michael's music if they see just how popular he really is for themselves. I'm not gonna begrudge myself or anyone else of the opportunity of seeing Michael on top of the world charts once more just to prove a point to Sony. How damaging exactly do you think this will be to them? :doh: Wait and see. The TII release will top the charts with or without your support.
loveforever
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the relevant products are all based on the popularity of his music. If no one buy his music, the publishers would lose interest. think about the Opus book, the publisher decided to make this book because they see michael's 50 music concert tickets' rapid sale. Michael's estate's main income is from his music.
Korgnex
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lol
Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. Michael Jackson co-owned the Sony/ATV song catalog, yes, A CATALOG.
This CATALOG is only A SMALL (but profitable in the music business) PIECE that's in the possession of Sony Music (and formerly Michael Jackson, now his estate).
Besides that CATALOG Sony Music has absolutely NOTHING to do with Michael Jackson.
(how the hell could you have thought Michael would "own" a part of Sony?? Sorry again, but this is complete nonsense)
And btw, Sony Music is only a DIVISION of the EXTREMELY BIG worldwide concern SONY that's not only releasing music, but is also distributing films, is selling entertainment devices (e.g. PlayStation) and is also very successful in the computer branch (e.g. monitors, DVD players).
Gold Pants Girl
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Why is this thread that is encouraging people to illegally download music still here?
Unb
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WTF!
I agree with You, Sony is the fu**** shit forever. i don't buy from this shit anything. just download...
sas2
Guests
We all agree to disagree. And that's fine.
I haven't bought a lot of those albums after Invincible, simple because I don't have much money and will only buy kinda 'new material'. Not, because Michael had a big big dispute (lol ok war..) going on with Sony. If you're not buying an album, somebody else will.
You will never win this game. We're the mice that's being chased by a freakin' lion.
I don't mind you guys trying to boycott Sony. And I don't mind that you might not call me a 'real fan'. My opinion, including everybody else's is questionable. I'm not more of a fan, I'm not less of a fan. But I will not simply do something that's not really, working? I prefer to give my energy to something else, instead giving it to Sony.
Oh well. Still... Sony................S....*...C...K..S.... *Agrees*
I haven't bought a lot of those albums after Invincible, simple because I don't have much money and will only buy kinda 'new material'. Not, because Michael had a big big dispute (lol ok war..) going on with Sony. If you're not buying an album, somebody else will.
You will never win this game. We're the mice that's being chased by a freakin' lion.
I don't mind you guys trying to boycott Sony. And I don't mind that you might not call me a 'real fan'. My opinion, including everybody else's is questionable. I'm not more of a fan, I'm not less of a fan. But I will not simply do something that's not really, working? I prefer to give my energy to something else, instead giving it to Sony.
Oh well. Still... Sony................S....*...C...K..S.... *Agrees*
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