Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Autumn,

I think the judge is fair so far so if he stays that way and makes sure Murray is on trial and not MJ, we will be fine.. Murray is the one on trial. He is the one that was MJ's personal physician. He was the one that gave his patient anesthesia at home in the bed and didn't watch him. No one put a gun to Murray's head and made him take the job. He is the one that is being prosecuted
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Autumn,

I think the judge is fair so far so if he stays that way and makes sure Murray is on trial and not MJ, we will be fine.. Murray is the one on trial. He is the one that was MJ's personal physician. He was the one that gave his patient anesthesia at home in the bed and didn't watch him. No one put a gun to Murray's head and made him take the job. He is the one that is being prosecuted

Yes, so far we have a lot of indications that the judge is being fair. A lot depends on his rulings. I do dread the media coverage, though, given the past abuse of Michael.

A lot of the defense strategy seems to be extraneous/irrelevant, and I'm hoping that the judge will cut through the crap, and keep things focused on the issue -- which is that Murray killed Michael, through almost unimaginable negligence.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

And as Soundmind explained, justify the fact that Murray gave propofol.

Then I don't know who is going to justify the way propofol was given (no equipment).

To me it looks like there IS no defense.

justify Murray's choice to give ONLY 50 mg daily which made no sense to the experts, big difference.

and again 50 mg did not need equipment to monitor. Does not mean it will fly but that's their explanation.
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

justify Murray's choice to give ONLY 50 mg daily which made no sense to the experts, big difference.

and again 50 mg did not need equipment to monitor. Does not mean it will fly but that's their explanation.

Exactly. Don't think it "will fly." Because, no one has any way of knowing WHAT "Murray's choice" (amount to give) really was? That was an extraordinarily huge amount of propofol he bought, and not sure if there is any way to explain that away? There would be no possible way to test for past dosages, given that propofol leaves the body so quickly. If there is only Murray's word for "dosage given," that is not likely to be believed, given his other, numerous, lies!

This situation is so unprecedented, that I can't see that giving ANY propofol is justified under the conditions in which it was given (at home, with no rescue equipment, to treat a condition -- insomnia -- for which propofol is an extreme treatment, instead of the more rational, "send Michael to a sleep clinic"). To say NOTHING of the benzos that were given, and their synergistic effect.

So -- right. Don't think that excuse will fly.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

another good post Autumn! You are right again.. Murray ordered 290 bottles of propofol if he was only giving 50mgs, where is the rest of it?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

justify Murray's choice to give ONLY 50 mg daily which made no sense to the experts, big difference.

and again 50 mg did not need equipment to monitor. Does not mean it will fly but that's their explanation.

I don't think it will fly :

Dr Calmes wrote in her report "full patient monitoring is required everytime propofol is given" , "the most essential monitor is a person trained in anesthesia and resucitation who is continuously present and not involved in ongoing surgical or diagnostic procedures" and she listed the basic equipment.


Dr Rogers also confirmed during the prelim that his conclusion (homicide) would be the same even if Micheal had self injected, because of the lack of monitoring , and ressucitation equipment / drugs.

Murray left the room , and was on the phone.

Dr White would be the first doctor I would hear saying that you can give propofol and NOT monitor your patient.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

great thread guys. this is what makes this board so great.

True. this board is great. When visiting other boards it almost feels like fans barely care about Murray's trial. It's few posts and that's it.
Or maybe I'm too sensitive.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

True. this board is great. When visiting other boards it almost feels like fans barely care about Murray's trial. It's few posts and that's it.
Or maybe I'm too sensitive.
no I agree..
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Yes, so far we have a lot of indications that the judge is being fair. A lot depends on his rulings. I do dread the media coverage, though, given the past abuse of Michael.

A lot of the defense strategy seems to be extraneous/irrelevant, and I'm hoping that the judge will cut through the crap, and keep things focused on the issue -- which is that Murray killed Michael, through almost unimaginable negligence.

The coverage is going to be aimed at sensationalism, but since the trial will be publicized, we can see through the nonsense. The usual tabloid media will most likely present information from the defense without showing what the cross examination showed. That is the typical way they report.

It seems the defense do not have any new theories, to throw out there. I am still very confident about the outcome of this trial.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

I don't think it will fly :

Dr Calmes wrote in her report "full patient monitoring is required everytime propofol is given" , "the most essential monitor is a person trained in anesthesia and resucitation who is continuously present and not involved in ongoing surgical or diagnostic procedures" and she listed the basic equipment.


Dr Rogers also confirmed during the prelim that his conclusion (homicide) would be the same even if Micheal had self injected, because of the lack of monitoring , and ressucitation equipment / drugs.

Murray left the room , and was on the phone.

Dr White would be the first doctor I would hear saying that you can give propofol and NOT monitor your patient.

So this means, that the defence team's efforts to provide evidence for self-injections are pointless, because even if proven, self-administration does not have anything to do with the charges of negligence.

There might have been different expert opinions about whether this amount of propofol requires monitoring or not, whether it needs hospital setting or not, but if the charge itself includes this element, it implies that propofol should not be given without monitoring (hence the charge).
So if the defence is going to make self administration likely this is like missing the point, because that would not justify the negligence charge.

In this case I am wondering whether the prosecutors need to care about this self-administration thing at all. Even if the defence takes the photos and says this and that about ports in IV, syringes, etc. Btw this shows they are still unsure whether Michael drank propofol (why would they need to examine IV setting once again, Michael drank it from IV??) or did self injection lol.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

So if the defence is going to make self administration likely this is like missing the point, because that would not justify the negligence charge.

according to Dr Rogers, self injection makes it worse for Murray, because it is only possible if Murray leaves the room.
(Dr Rogers doesn't believe in self injection/ MJ drank the propofol, if I understood him correctly, among other things because there was to little propofol in the stomach content)

In this case I am wondering whether the prosecutors need to care about this self-administration thing at all. Even if the defence takes the photos and says this and that about ports in IV, syringes, etc. Btw this shows they are still unsure whether Michael drank propofol (why would they need to examine IV setting once again, Michael drank it from IV??) or did self injection lol.

That would be great if the prosecution could rule out self injection/he drank the propofol.
The defense wants to show that Murray just give a little dose of propofol, they are saying that there are other possibilities for the propofol to get int mj's system.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

according to Dr Rogers, self injection makes it worse for Murray, because it is only possible if Murray leaves the room.
(Dr Rogers doesn't believe in self injection/ MJ drank the propofol, if I understood him correctly, among other things because there was to little propofol in the stomach content)



That would be great if the prosecution could rule out self injection/he drank the propofol.
The defense wants to show that Murray just give a little dose of propofol, they are saying that there are other possibilities for the propofol to get int mj's system.

The defence might suggest that what Murray gave Michael could not kill him, that is why they want to show self injection was possible. But what the charges state is not that propofol killed Michael as such, but that Michael died because of negligence and lack of monitoring, not because he took too much propofol or too rapidly.

Another thing is that the judge would need to makes decisions, I guess, to what extend discussion about the levels of propofol in Michael's body would be allowed etc. and how much it has to do with the negligence charge.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

This situation is so unprecedented, that I can't see that giving ANY propofol is justified under the conditions in which it was given (at home, with no rescue equipment, to treat a condition -- insomnia -- for which propofol is an extreme treatment, instead of the more rational, "send Michael to a sleep clinic"). To say NOTHING of the benzos that were given, and their synergistic effect
exactly. the issue is it being given at all regardless of the amounts

True. this board is great. When visiting other boards it almost feels like fans barely care about Murray's trial. It's few posts and that's it.
Or maybe I'm too sensitive.
agree. thats the impression it gives

The defence might suggest that what Murray gave Michael could not kill him, that is why they want to show self injection was possible. But what the charges state is not that propofol killed Michael as such, but that Michael died because of negligence and lack of monitoring, not because he took too much propofol or too rapidly.
thats been the defence argument from the begining. how many times have we heard chernoff going on saying what he gave shouldnt have killed anyone. ie i only gave a tiny amount someone else ejected the rest. but u are right. the charge is negligence based on not monitoring giving it for insomnia outside of a hospital etc. the amount is irrelevent. he put mj in that dangerous position and it was his negligence that caused what happened to happen. its just diversation tactics from the defence. have u ever seen them trying to defend his phonecalls/leaving the room.hiding evidence etc etc its smoke and mirrors for the core of what this case is about

Another thing is that the judge would need to makes decisions, I guess, to what extend discussion about the levels of propofol in Michael's body would be allowed etc. and how much it has to do with the negligence charge.
yes his rulings/instructions will be very important
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

This is slightly OT, but someone talked about the huge amounts of propofol that Murray ordered and where it was. Do we know? Is it something that Murray could use in his clinic?

The reason I am asking is because I doubt that Murray was giving Michael propofol for 6 weeks straight. And if the dosage he claims to have given on that fateful night is the same dosage he claims to have been administering all along - where is the rest?

Could it be that Murray was buying and hoarding medical stuff, using his connection to Michael as a way of building his business, so to speak?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

murray ordered it from vegas and had it sent ot his g.friends house in L.A. murray didnt have a clinic in L.A so theres only one place it was gonna be used at. he also lied to the pharmacy where he bought it saying it was gonna be sent to his clinic in L.A not his g.f's house

The reason I am asking is because I doubt that Murray was giving Michael propofol for 6 weeks straight. And if the dosage he claims to have given on that fateful night is the same dosage he claims to have been administering all along - where is the rest?

he rang his g.f nicole while in the back of the amublance on the way to the hospital. if they cant find the rest of the stuff and it wasnt all used then no doubt that phone call was telling her to get rid of it
 
Some important passages I cropped up that I feel are essential, didn't know where to post them best, I'm too distraught to be thinking too clearly, some long texts, sorry about that.. but very relevant and important to emphasize how clearly a victim Michael really was in all this and more:

‘[…] He wasn’t looking to get high or feel good and sedated from drugs. This was a person who was not on drugs. This was a person who was seeking help, desperately, to get some sleep, to get some rest. […] He said, ‘I don’t like drugs. I don’t want any drugs. My doctor told me this is a safe medicine,’ […] He said, ‘No, my doctor said it’s safe. It works quick and it’s safe as long as somebody’s here to monitor me and wake me up. It’s going be OK. At one point, I spent the night with him to monitor him while he slept. I gave him herbal remedies and stayed in a corner chair in his vast bedroom."

[Cherilyn Lee; source: www.ap.org, www.thesilencedtruth.com/]

“Mr. Jackson did not present himself as a drug addict and from January to April, I didn’t see that in him. Even when it came to the Diprivan, he was looking for something that was going to help him sleep. He was not addicted to drugs. He only wanted to sleep. So, at his request, I sat in his bedroom with him and watched him as he tried to sleep. The night I stayed with him… He said, ‘I want to you to see how I sleep, ‘cause I want you to see that I don’t fall asleep. Or I fall asleep it takes awhile, but then I wake up after a couple hours.’ […]"

[Cherilyn Lee; source: www.accesshollywood.com, www.thesilencedtruth.com/]

“[…] His doctor told him that (propofol) was safe. […] He said ‘I just want to get some sleep. You don't understand. […] He just told me - because I asked him, what doctor gave him this drug, 'Oh it was a long time ago’. […] I met him in January (of 2009). And because someone called me and said his children had a runny nose and a little cough and could I come out to the house and see them. And because it was a referral person, he felt very comfortable. And so, when I arrived at the house I saw three children. And actually I love working with children and I kind of set something up for them, some vitamin C and, you know, as a practitioner, I listened to their lungs to make sure they were clear and went ahead and did the routine physical exam and everything. And after I finished with the children and had given them some vitamin C that they had, you know, the vitamin C powder and a couple of other things, it's a homeopathic; they told their dad they were feeling a lot better. So he looked at me and said, ‘What else do you do?’ And so I said, ‘Well, I help people, you know, when they want to have more energy. And he said, ‘Oh, well, okay, that's really good..’. And so we start taking it from there and I try to find out ‘Why is it you don't have any energy?’ And just went through the whole course of, you know, not that day. He asked me if I could come back the following day. So I went and drew some blood, maybe you're anemic or maybe it's this or that, but let's not second guess anything. I did full lab work. A full work-up on him. Then, I told him from there that, nutritionally, we could get you set up. […] I didn't see anybody [when I was there at his house]. I didn't see anybody (a doctor) in January. February, March, there was a time he did go to London, so - he was out. But I never heard of a doctor, I never did see anyone. […] I told him I prefer to do continuity of care with someone. And I didn't see anyone.”

[Cherilyn Lee – talking to CNN anchor, Anderson Cooper; source: http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com, www.thesilencedtruth.com/]



“I met Michael Jackson in January of 2009 at his home. […] [I happened to meet him] through a very dear friend, a very dear friend. He had a concern. His children had -- some of them were coughing, a little runny nose going on. And he's the type person, after meeting him, that's very concerned about his children and want to make sure they stay healthy. […] When I finished with the children, he said, ‘Well, you know, what do you do?’ And I said, ‘Well, you know, what's going on with you?’ And he said, ‘Well, I'm just feeling a little tired. You know, I'm getting ready for this concert that we're setting up, and the traveling. And he said, ‘I'm just a little tired, because I'm getting ready to start performing -- practicing and getting myself ready for that’. So he said, ‘I'm just tired’. So I said, ‘Well, you know, before, you know, giving you anything, let's just do some lab work, you know, see what's going on’, because there's many reasons why he could be tired. And so I did -- I said, ‘Well, I can't do it today’. So he said, ‘Well, can you come back tomorrow?’ And I said, ‘Well, sure. I mean, I find it an honor to come back, you know?’ And I went back the next day and did -- asked him, prior to, to fast for me and don't eat any food after 12:00 midnight and I'll see him the next morning. So I went back the next morning. I drew his blood. And has very small veins, so it took a little minute. So I drew his blood and told him that once I had the results back, then I'll set up a nutritional program for him. […] He kind of said, you know, he wanted -- he mentioned it, but it was kind of like "By the way" kind of thing. It wasn't, like, you know, I have just chronic insomnia and I just can't sleep. It was moreso toward April. That's when he asked me what – ‘Well, do you mind spending the night with me? I have to show you that I can't sleep, and I don't think you really believe me’. I said, I believe you. But he said, ‘Well, can you just come?’ That was around April when he started bringing this up. So he said, ‘Why don't you come watch me sleep?’ And I said, ‘OK, I'm going to bring you some tea’. And I had another homeopath, ‘I'm going to bring some other things’ -- actually this was more of an herbal supplement, which is very good for sleep. […] And it already mentioned, he said, ‘I can't take anything with melatonin, because it just doesn't work very well for me.’ I said ‘OK, I'll make sure it doesn't have that in it.’ And Michael is very smart, very smart man, very articulate, as you know. But very smart, and very well read. So he knew. And so I said well, Michael, I said, I'll come. And maybe team. I said why don't you get in bed? And he said, ‘Why don't you come check my room?’, and everything. […] He had classical music that was ongoing in the house itself. […] He said he is done everything. He said ‘I've done meditation’, I've done this, I've done that. And he just went on the list, and he said nothing worked. […] And he said, ‘Well, it's a safe medicine’. I said I don't think it's safe. […] He said, ‘Can you find me an anesthesiologist then to put me to sleep? To put me to sleep so I can get at least eight hours of sleep.”

“He might physically, himself, or someone just called and said he's going to be calling you, but is calling from a blocked number. I said that's fine in a couple of minutes, and I was put to speak with him. This time someone else called. And another person, so he called, and I showed her my caller ID, I'm an ER myself in Florida. And so I picked up the phone and answered it. And he said -- he said, "You know, Michael needs you to come see him. We want to know if you could please come today, right away." I said I really can't. I'm in Florida. I said "What's going on?" And he said, and I could hear Michael in the background saying, "Please, just tell her, tell her what's going on with me. Just tell her." He said ‘one side of my body is hot and one side of my body is cold, and what should I do?’ […] I know it was very unusual. […] [He couldn’t have given himself an IV.] No. He was afraid of needles. And he never comes towards his body with anything like that. There's no way. […]No. I am certain about that. He didn't want anything that was going to cause him pain. I had a cream called shae (ph) butter. And I said, ‘Come on, Michael, let me just massage your hands, because they are really dry and cracked’. And let me just do that. And we started that back in February. [...] As far as anything dealing with pain, no, never. I can't ever see him doing anything like that. […] Actually, he would close his eyes for me to give him the vitamin C. […] Yes. He would close his eyes. He didn't want to look and -- no. No. Because he said, "Please find a doctor to give me this medication, so they can monitor me." […] [He didn’t look like he was trying to avoid the concerts.] He was so happy the night that he received a lot of the awards for the "Thriller." It was either that night or later the night before, because a lot of things came in from Holland and all these different companies. He was so excited. He was so excited. He was so excited about during the concert. They were faxing him over the music they wanted to hear, or emailing one, but he had copies of it in his hand. He said, "Wow, this many people want to hear the song. This many people want to hear that song." Was really excited, really looking forward. And more so, because he said, "This is the first time my children" -- and they would sit there and just smile -- he said, "The first time my children are going to see me perform."

“[…] When I came in March, he said, 'Frank, make sure they get a doctor for us'. […] I said, why do you need a doctor? He said ‘Because after the shows I want to make sure that I get the right fluids, you know, and I eat right, and I want somebody to help my health.”

[Frank DiLeo, American music industry executive and actor; sources: http://transcripts.cnn.com, www.mjkit.forumotion.net, www.thesilencedtruth.com/]

“[…] Propofol is the last series of drugs Dr. Murray admitted to giving Jackson. Murray publicly admitted being “out of the room” shortly after giving Jackson the propofol. Propofol is the drug the LA coroner declared was the cause of Jackson’s death. Murray claims to be a cardiologist. He may have been qualified to intravenuously administrate members of the class of drugs known as benzodizepines or “benzos”, but was most assuredly out of his depth of knowledge, training, and experience when giving propofol. […] Let me empathically state that since its 1989 introduction to the North American market, tens, (if not hundreds of millions) of patients have safely received propofol (…). Why? Because someone was watching and monitoring them, two features apparently absent in Michael Jackson’s bedroom. Also, administering propofol in a person’s home is not altogether different from giving anesthesia in a surgeon’s office operating room. Both are remote locations and can be made safe with observation and appropriate monitoring. Although, I have never given propofol in a patient’s home, I have safely given it to patients for office-based elective cosmetic surgery for nearly two decades. Using propofol to help someone fight insomnia is most definitely not among the medically recognized uses of the drug. From 1992 to 1994, I put patients to sleep for cosmetic surgery in a gradual fashion to preserve their ability to breathe. What every patient told me through this two-year period was the best part of the anesthesia was the ‘going to sleep’ part. I had no frame of reference to understand what my patients told me. Finally, after hearing the same accounting from every patient, it occurred to me that propofol was a “happy” drug (i.e., patients enjoyed it). In 1998, one patient was so enthusiastic about his propofol experience that he suggested that he and I open a sleep clinic for patients wanting the great propofol sleep and wake up. I told him I was confident we could make a lot of money, but that the California Medical Board would not view our activities as legitimate. […] It was likely (Michael) became familiar with propofol as a result of the (…) cosmetic surgeries he had after his hair caught fire during the infamous Pepsi commercial. […]” – for more on propofol and its proper usage, as well as other relevant medical info, as per Dr. Barry L. Friedberg, in his book ‘Getting Over Going Under’, click here: http://www.mj-777.com/?p=7534

“[…] The action of propofol on Jackson’s brain would have been measured by a BIS (index measure drug effects) independently from the benzo effect. By using such a brain measurement, the overmedication with propofol could have been avoided. Jackson’s failure to breathe from the combined effects of the benzos and the propofol would also have been avoided. When midazolam was introduced to replace the longer-acting diazepam, the drug maker supplied midazolam in the same 5-miligram concentration as diazepam. After many patients had unintentional stoppage of breathing, midazolam was reformulated in a less potent concentration. For many years, midazolam has been well known for its potential to stop breathing. Propofol is not physically addictive (…). […] The third and lethal folly was giving Jackson two types of drugs well known to potentially stop breathing. (midazolam and propofol) In none of the published photographs of Jackson’s bedroom do any safety monitors appear. Murray reportedly told police he had been using a pulse oximeter. When the police searched for it, the pulse oximeter was discovered (…) in an adjoining room. If this account proves correct, it casts serious doubts on Conrad Murray’s credibility. […] It is more probable that Murray had no idea exactly how much drug he gave Jackson. In any case, the amount of propofol the LA coroner found (…) is incompatible with a 25 mg dose [that Murray claimed to have given Jackson].”

“[…] The only thing that matters is observing and monitoring one’s patient. Murray, by apparently failing to perform these two items, was truly reckless and inexcusable. In conclusion, giving multiple drugs with the well-known to stop breathing, failing to remain in observation, and failing to use a pulse oximeter are all clear predictors of a bad outcome. Although he may have not intended to kill Jackson, Murray clearly caused Jackson’s death involuntarily. The only thing more reckless that Murray could have done was taking Jackson up in an airplane and pushing him out without a parachute. What would have prevented Jackson’s death? A knowledgeable, conscientious physician who both watched and monitored his oxygen – at the very least – absolutely would have. A brain monitor would have measured the propofol effect, thereby preventing a dose that stopped Jackson’s breathing.”

[Barry L. Friedberg, M.D., American Board Certified Anestheseologist, author; sources: www.mj-777.com, www.thesilencedtruth.com/]
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Murray is at fault all the way around.. He gave MJ all the breathing depressing sedatives along with propofol and he left MJ alone. He is at fault no matter how you look at it.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Thanks, Alma. As I was reading I thought of something, that I've never heard mentioned. Murray's behavior was SO unusual -- as a doctor -- I mean, it stood out that he had a pulse oxymeter, but wasn't using it and it was in another room -- SO unusual, that I had the thought -- did MURRAY have a drug problem? That happens sometimes with doctors, who have pretty much unlimited access to prescription medication.

Murray's behavior was so incredibly negligent -- I'm just thinking, was he high or impaired that evening/morning? That would also explain why he fled the hospital and hid for two days. I've not heard this speculated about, and I'm sure there is no way for us to take it any further -- but, that is one possible explanation for some of his actions. Wouldn't make him any less guilty -- maybe even more so! That idea just occurred to me. . . . . . . He clearly had self-control issues (multiple baby-mamas, poor money-management), and maybe that extended to drugs, as well?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

yeah i wouldnt be surprised. ppl did mention it when the bit of rotting cannabis or whatever it was was found. wasnt his father also a dr involved im something similar. something was posted about him and some issues a while back. cant remember exactlywhat it was about
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Welcome...

And yes, I too believe I've read about his father and that connection.. Can't find the time to search about this for now, though. But Murray, to me, seems like an unstable human being, like he doesn't even know whether he belongs to this world or if he's been abducted by aliens, or if he's a doctor and of what specialization. .. Something seems definitely off about him.. Murray should've been tested shortly before he went missing for a day or 2, to analyse if there was something in his system. Speaking to various people and a couple of girlfriends, when you're supposed to take care of his patient?... What can be done about that now?.. Michael's system has been dissected to death, not to mention via words, but not his doctor's, because, right, who is supposed to doubt a doctor and their qualifications and state of mind , you question the patient.. Why did he leave for those two days when police couldn't find him? Maybe, aside from him desperately shopping for lawyers, maybe he waited that some substances in his system get absorbed, if he was on sth, and I won't claim to know he was. But that's very likely...

He still has to be tested anyway. It's too gross and unnatural his aloof attitude and arrogance and weirdness in all this.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Yeah, if the defence can complain that orange juice wasn't tested, the prosecution could complain about Murray's system not being tested for substances.

Maybe some witnesses could confirm Murray displaying "strange behaviour" at times, acting "incoherently" etc. :rolleyes: I wonder whether they tested for alcohol for example.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Yeah, if the defence can complain that orange juice wasn't tested, the prosecution could complain about Murray's system not being tested for substances.

Maybe some witnesses could confirm Murray displaying "strange behaviour" at times, acting "incoherently" etc. :rolleyes: I wonder whether they tested for alcohol for example.

well there was the rumor that Oxman threw out there that Murray was drinking at a strip club on the night he killed MJ. I wonder if the prosecution will be calling that witness. I believe Murray was messed up when Michael called him. There is no way a cardiologist can be this incompetent and stupid. Giving Michael anesthesia at home and then leaving him knowing he's there to monitor his patient. He had absolutely no monitoring equipment and wasn't even looking at him, so something is off with that man.

I still would like to know what fool introduced Michael to him? and why didn't anyone do any kind of investigating on him. They would've uncovered his lawsuits, multiple kids/mothers even though he's married, his foreclosure and lack of paying child support. That right there alone makes him shady as hell to me. It's like you're a doctor, a cardiologist, but you can't pay your bills? something is wrong there
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

This is slightly OT, but someone talked about the huge amounts of propofol that Murray ordered and where it was. Do we know? Is it something that Murray could use in his clinic?

The reason I am asking is because I doubt that Murray was giving Michael propofol for 6 weeks straight. And if the dosage he claims to have given on that fateful night is the same dosage he claims to have been administering all along - where is the rest?

Could it be that Murray was buying and hoarding medical stuff, using his connection to Michael as a way of building his business, so to speak?

as elusive said only Murray and his girlfriend know where all those boxes are. You want my opinion ? flushed down the toilet at MJ's house. That amount was only bought to justify to MJ why AEG had to pay him 5 millions , remember all the purchases were done before he was even hired. Before he was hired he needed all those purchases but once he was hired only 50mg of propofol daily was needed? !!! why did even MJ hire a doctor to give him 50mg of propofol daily that was less than the average dose to induce sleep?

the other possibility he indeed was using those huge amounts to maintain sleep for hours. This is pure insanity .if any one believes in this nonsense ; that MJ could have survived one night of being hooked to propofol for HOURS without any kind of monitoring equipment then he/she deserves to be called insane .
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

OMG! We're back again to "he flushed it down the toilet?" Then why the HELL didn't he just buy one case of the stuff and make Michael think he was giving it ALL? Didn't he keep it at the girlfriend's house anyway? Does anyone really think Michael was counting vials of propofol? :doh: Seriously? If the defense even tries that one, they will piss off the jury very much at the insult to their intelligence!

I have no idea where the "50mg of propofol" is even coming from anyway. Because Murray SAID so? Riiiiight.

There should be a gigantic flushing sound, all right, and that should be Murray going down the drain. OMFG.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Does anyone really think Michael was counting vials of propofol?

" does any one think MJ asked for propofol? " you moved from that phase ? !!lol

MJ was too smart to use propofol in your opinion and that's why you believed he was intentionally killed, now he was too smart to count them ? why would not he count them?
I believe MJ was counting them , so what ?lol
Seriously? If the defense even tries that one, they will piss off the jury very much at the insult to their intelligence!

who said the defence will ADMIT to that ? lol
that's one of the many reasons Murray will not dare to take the stand, because he has to explain where all those boxes disappeared.

either 40 000 mg of propofol ended up in MJ's body ,or they were flushed down the toilet somewhere. lol
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

I personally dont think Michael was countng bottles of propofol and I dont think the contents of the rest of the bottles went down the toilet...if they did ..I wonder WHERE are the empty bottles?? I think Murray will end up having to tell were they are...
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

I personally dont think Michael was countng bottles of propofol and I dont think the contents of the rest of the bottles went down the toilet...if they did ..I wonder WHERE are the empty bottles?? I think Murray will end up having to tell were they are...

Of COURSE. It's not for the prosecution to say what was going on with the bottles of propofol, and it is not (or should not be) MICHAEL who is on trial here. And as I keep saying, none of this matters very much. What matters is that Murray was doing something under incredibly dangerous conditions, that he should not have been doing, and that under those circumstances Michael's death was almost certain. And THAT is an I.M. conviction. (and good luck to the defense if they try to spin a story whereby Murray was flushing propofol down the toilet, making him look like more of an idiot than he already does!)

Where are the bottles of propofol? Maybe Murray was in back-alleys selling them to rabid PROPOFOL ADDICTS?
hysterical.gif


Information drought here, until the next round of hearings. . . .
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Of COURSE. It's not for the prosecution to say what was going on with the bottles of propofol, and it is not (or should not be) MICHAEL who is on trial here. And as I keep saying, none of this matters very much. What matters is that Murray was doing something under incredibly dangerous conditions, that he should not have been doing, and that under those circumstances Michael's death was almost certain. And THAT is an I.M. conviction. (and good luck to the defense if they try to spin a story whereby Murray was flushing propofol down the toilet, making him look like more of an idiot than he already does!)

Where are the bottles of propofol? Maybe Murray was in back-alleys selling them to rabid PROPOFOL ADDICTS?
hysterical.gif


Information drought here, until the next round of hearings. . . .
he could of been...:lmao:
who really knows what the hell Murray might of done with them...HE Knows .but..we probably never will.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Murray will probably lie and say he sent them to his clinics... He's such a liar.. I'd like to know how many other times he left MJ alone hooked up to the IV? I don't think June 25th 2009 was the first time he left MJ alone. I have a feeling Murray won't take the stand. He has a lot of questions I'm sure he doesn't want to answer
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Murray will probably lie and say he sent them to his clinics... He's such a liar.. I'd like to know how many other times he left MJ alone hooked up to the IV? I don't think June 25th 2009 was the first time he left MJ alone. I have a feeling Murray won't take the stand. He has a lot of questions I'm sure he doesn't want to answer
agree girl
 
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