Quincy Jones' take on Xscape

[mjj19582009]

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[HIStory]

This has already been posted and discussed in another thread. As I said there Quincy is a hypocrite. He approved this crap in 2010 which was featured on his album Q Soul Bossa Nostra: val.fm/pretty-young-thing-feat-t-pain-robin-thicke-quincy-jones-mp3/

And he even defended it at the time:

Quincy Jones Blasts &#8216;Haters&#8217; Over &#8216;P.Y.T.&#8217; Remake Criticism

T-Pain received a lambasting from Michael Jackson&#8217;s fans for remaking the King of Pop&#8217;s classic &#8220;P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing).&#8221; The Auto-Tune King issued a fiery response to his critics and now the song&#8217;s original producer, Quincy Jones, is taking aim at those who have a problem with the reworked record.

&#8220;Today with Facebook and Twitter and everything, I have never seen so many haters in my life,&#8221; the 77-year-old legend exclusively tells Rap-Up.com. &#8220;But it&#8217;s people sitting in their basements with their pants on the ground, just being haters. I don&#8217;t get it, man. That means they don&#8217;t have a life.&#8221;

The update of the 1983 smash from Thriller was produced by T-Pain and Mervyn Warren and appears on Quincy&#8217;s tribute album Q: Soul Bossa Nostra, in stores Tuesday. The music maestro doesn&#8217;t take issue with the way the song was redone. &#8220;The freedom in music is do what you want to do,&#8221; he shares. &#8220;I don&#8217;t think anybody should sit there and say you shouldn&#8217;t do that or you shouldn&#8217;t do this. That&#8217;s not up to me to say.&#8221;

While T-Pain said that he recorded the song at Mr. Jones&#8217; request, Quincy offers a different take. &#8220;They volunteered. I didn&#8217;t choose them. I didn&#8217;t produce this,&#8221; he says. &#8220;Six years ago, Timbaland came to me with one of his assistants in South Beach and said, &#8216;We&#8217;d like to do a hip-hop tribute to all your old songs.&#8217; I said, &#8216;Great, man. That&#8217;s a very big honor &#8217;cause I&#8217;ve worked with a lot of the hip-hoppers anyway and have always been behind them.&#8217;&#8221;

Jones took a back seat when it came to putting together the project. &#8220;I just sat down with guys that were my friends and they called and asked me questions and so forth. I&#8217;m there for them, but I said use your own voice, but make it better than the one we did.&#8221;

​

http://www.rap-up.com/2010/11/04/quincy-jones-blasts-haters-over-pyt-remake-criticism/

I guess as long as "contemporarized" versions make money for him, it's not a problem...

 

[SoCav]

I honestly can't figure out why Quincy Jones takes so much credit for Michael's albums. What did he do? Song selection? Let's give him part of "Off the wall",and that's it! "Thriller" was Rod Temperton and MJ, and "Bad" was pure MJ. Even "We are the world" is pure Michael, remember the disastrous Quincy-Jones-led Haiti Project? /facepalm

I agree that he takes too much credit for the MJ projects and downplays the role Michael played. For some reason, he seems to have developed a hateful attitude towards MJ over the years, particularly in recent years. In the past he used to be more complimentary. He started to become more negative about MJ at a personal level earlier on, but used to still praise him as an artist. Now he is making offensive claims about both. These latest comments are again very annoying. For him to basically say MJ was just a singer and a dancer is just ridiculous.

At the same time, I don't think we need to downplay his influence on MJ's music early in MJ's career either. You are talking about songwriting in your post. That was not Quincy's role for these projects (though he did of course co-write PYT). He did bring in in songwriters like Rod Temperton, Steve Porcaro and Siedah Garrett however - MJ's catalogue would not be the same without songs like Human Nature, Man in the Mirror, Thriller, Rock With You, etc. He also brought in a lot of the people that helped make the albums sound so great, like Bruce Swedien, as well as a lot of the musicians. Quincy's production on all these albums was tremendous. And you can listen to non-MJ albums that he was involved with at the time, like The Dude, to recognize the influence he had on the sound of Michael's music. He did have a big impact on MJ at a time when he wanted to develop himself as a solo artist. MJ himself was always the first to say so.

 

[ChrisC]

Bitter old man.

 

[SoCav]

I didn't say Quincy did nothing, Michael clearly used his insight, experience and connections to make his first solo steps. But he is by no means a genius

Well, that's in the eye of the beholder. When you look at his entire career, not just as a producer but also as, among other things, a composer and arranger, and the influence his work had, I can easily see why people would call him a genius.

 

[HIStory]

I think the annoying thing about Quincy's comments is that he further perpetuates untrue myths about MJ. There are already enough ignorant people out there thinking MJ did nothing on his albums just sang whatever Quincy brought to him and told him to sing, no need to further feed that myth, especially because it's simply not true.

Michael did need Quincy at that phase of his career and certainly he could be and was grateful to him for a lot of things. But Quincy needed Michael just the same and should be just as grateful to Michael IMO. Yes, he was a big name already in jazz and soundtrack making (just like Michael was already a big name before Q), but in popular music Michael was and remains his best and by far most influential act. And if it was just because of Quincy, as so many people like think, how come he could not get anywhere near that level with any of his other acts? It's not like he did not try with people like Tevin Campbell, Tamia etc. Just compare Q's work on those albums and singles with the stuff he did with Michael! Quincy was a great producer, but Michael had to write that classic material first to make him shine. Actually Quincy himself wasn't much of a songwriter - at least not in popular music. When you look at his own albums that are not jazz but more in the direction of popular music - even those do not have many songs written by him. He was a great producer, arranger and organizer with great connections in the industry. I'm not taking away those things from him. But he shouldn't try to take away songwriting credits from Michael either and reduce him to "just a singer and dancer" when he knows damn well that is not true.

Michael always gave him credit. I don't know why it's so hard for him to give credit to Michael.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Part of Mr Jones' problem may be that you can mention Michael's name without mentioning Jones, but seldom does Jones' name get mentioned without Michael's name attached!

The man has an incredible legacy and a great body of work and he was a fantastic producer. But, as we Bajans say, "say a, say b" - if Quincy Jones was such an incredible Svengali, then he would have been able to replicate Michael's success with Tevin Campbell. End of.

 

[SuperLee]

Theres no doubt at all that Quincy has produced some classic hits and inspired other producers, but I personally find him to have turned sour and abit resentful. I think what Michael and Quincy did was legendary, however I think his feelings and thoughts towards Michael changed after Bad, he proberly felt like he was no longer the 'flavour of the month' with Michael. I get the impression he feels like the Estate has something against him for not using tracks he 'produced' tracks for posthumous releases, hence the reason for the headed the recent legal challenge. Sour grapes and all that.
But overall I think he's turned abit bitter towards the whole Michael Jackson music relationship status, and wants out even if it earn him his extra millions of $'s over the years.

 

[michaeljackson&lisamarie]

Quincy don't choke on those sour grapes. listen old man, move on and shut up.

 

[MoeJack]

Does anyone know if there is any interview out there where Quincy shares his thoughts on Michael's post-bad albums? I'm really curious!

 

[JustMe00]

I'm sorry but what reason do you guys have to bash him like that? All he said was that the estate is trying to make money and he doesn't blame them. He also said it is not his business anymore, he simply replied to a question, because he was asked.

 

[HIStory]

I'm sorry but what reason do you guys have to bash him like that? All he said was that the estate is trying to make money and he doesn't blame them. He also said it is not his business anymore, he simply replied to a question, because he was asked.

My issue is more with the "MJ was just a singer and dancer" comment. He knows damn well that is not true. For Q to produce Billie Jean, Beat It, WBSS and most of those classics, Michael had to write them first...

 

[JustMe00]

My issue is more with the "MJ was just a singer and dancer" comment. He knows damn well that is not true. For Q to produce Billie Jean, Beat It, WBSS and most of those classics, Michael had to write them first...

I would assume he is bitter about all the bashing and hate he has gotten from the community. I don't know a single person who's had a part in Michael's life, who hasn't gotten hate from us.

 

[HIStory]

I would assume he is bitter about all the bashing and hate he has gotten from the community. I don't know a single person who's had a part in Michael's life, who hasn't gotten hate from us.

That so called "hate from us" is rarely unprovoked. But I guess to you they are allowed to trash Michael, but should be above criticism themselves.

Quincy has bad-mouthed MJ in interviews several time in the last years. He actually made totally unnecessary, below the belt remarks about him both as an artist as a person. Before that I did not see any fan criticize him. I personally had a big respect for him until I saw some of those comments which disgusted me.

And if he has a problem with MJ fans he should say so, not bash Michael who never said a bad word about him.

 

[JustMe00]

Don't try to reverse it. Quincy has bad-mouthed MJ in interviews several time in the last years. He actually made below the belt remarks about him both as an artist as a person. Before that I did not see any fan criticize him. And if he has a problem with MJ fans he should say so, not bash Michael who never said a bad word about him.

I didn't. I actually agree with you about not attacking MJ for it, but was simply giving my opinion on why he might've said such a thing.

 

[HIStory]

I didn't. I actually agree with you about not attacking MJ for it, but was simply giving my opinion on why he might've said such a thing.

Supposedly Michael was his friend whom he dearly loved, so to trash him just to get back at his fans would be childish. He should then just say "MJ fans are crazy" or whatever, but that's not what he said. He attacked Michael both as an artist and as a person. It has nothing to do with MJ's fans IMO. It has a lot more to do with Q's ego.

 

[SoCav]

I think the annoying thing about Quincy's comments is that he further perpetuates untrue myths about MJ. There are already enough ignorant people out there thinking MJ did nothing on his albums just sang whatever Quincy brought to him and told him to sing, no need to further feed that myth, especially because it's simply not true.

Yep, totally agree. I wish one of these interviewers would just call him out on that.

Michael did need Quincy at that phase of his career and certainly he could be and was grateful to him for a lot of things. But Quincy needed Michael just the same and should be just as grateful to Michael IMO. Yes, he was a big name already in jazz and soundtrack making (just like Michael was already a big name before Q), but in popular music Michael was and remains his best and by far most influential act. And if it was just because of Quincy, as so many people like think, how come he could not get anywhere near that level with any of his other acts? It's not like he did not try with people like Tevin Campbell, Tamia etc. Just compare Q's work on those albums and singles with the stuff he did with Michael! Quincy was a great producer, but Michael had to write that classic material first to make him shine. Actually Quincy himself wasn't much of a songwriter - at least not in popular music. When you look at his own albums that are not jazz but more in the direction of popular music - even those do not have many songs written by him. He was a great producer, arranger and organizer with great connections in the industry. I'm not taking away those things from him. But he shouldn't try to take away songwriting credits from Michael either and reduce him to "just a singer and dancer" when he knows damn well that is not true.

I don't think Quincy needed Michael at that point in his career. He had already worked with people like Ray Charles, Frank Sinatra, Count Basie and Aretha Franklin at that point. His name was firmly established. All the success he enjoyed with Michael did give his name a huge boost, but he was already very highly regarded before that. Quincy's work post-Bad has been pretty lacklustre, but let's not forget he was already in his late 50s at that time. Not every artist can sustain a similar level of quality throughout their career. I'm not sure why you'd say he wasn't much of a songwriter just because he focused on jazz & r&b tunes - several of which did really well on the charts actually. But it is definitely true that he should not be getting credit for songwriting with regards to MJ's work.

With all that being said though, I also don't think Michael's success hinged on Quincy. Working with Quincy did help him develop a lot, as MJ always said himself, and those albums would not have sounded the same without Quincy. But I'm sure MJ would have had massive success if he had not decided with Quincy at that time as well.

Michael always gave him credit. I don't know why it's so hard for him to give credit to Michael.

Totally agree. It seems to be a frustration to him that MJ always gets brought up whenever he's interviewed. Then again, so are Ray Charles and Sinatra, and he never seems to slam them. Perhaps there is resentment over the fact that MJ decided to part ways with him after Bad. If so, that's ridiculous. It's also strange, because you would expect that resentment to have come out earlier, whereas Quincy did not seem particularly negative about MJ until the 2000s.

Does anyone know if there is any interview out there where Quincy shares his thoughts on Michael's post-bad albums? I'm really curious!

Supposedly MJ let him listen to Dangerous before it was released, and supposedly Quincy told him it was a great record.

Supposedly Michael was his friend whom he dearly loved, so to trash him just to get back at his fans would be childish. He should then just say "MJ fans are crazy" or whatever, but that's not what he said. He attacked Michael both as an artist and as a person. It has nothing to do with MJ's fans IMO. It has a lot more to do with Q's ego.

Agreed. For someone who called MJ his 'little brother' he seems to be incredibly ignorant and spiteful. Sad, really.

 

[HIStory]

Yep, totally agree. I wish one of these interviewers would just call him out on that.


I don't think Quincy needed Michael at that point in his career. He had already worked with people like Ray Charles, Frank Sinatra, Count Basie and Aretha Franklin at that point. His name was firmly established. All the success he enjoyed with Michael did give his name a huge boost, but he was already very highly regarded before that.

Depends on what we mean by "needing Michael".

I know that he was revered before Michael but I think Thriller alone probably sold more than Q's entire catalogue with other artists. Then add Bad and Off The Wall too... I know that commercial success is not everything, but when it comes to royalties I'd guess most of the royalties Quincy gets comes from his work with Michael. At least I don't remember any other truly blockbuster hit record from the rest of his catalogue.

And while he was always respected within the industry, but Michael gave him an even bigger fame - also outside of the industry. Whether he "needed" that fame or money or not only he could tell, but maybe he should give a bit more respect to Michael without whom that would not have been possible. Michael always gave him respect and love. He never trashed him.

I'm not sure why you'd say he wasn't much of a songwriter just because he focused on jazz & r&b tunes - several of which did really well on the charts actually.

Actually, this is what I wrote:

Actually Quincy himself wasn't much of a songwriter - at least not in popular music.

I know he has a huge jazz/soundtrack catalogue and I know he wrote more music there, but when it comes to his "pop" records he mostly relied on other songwriters' talents. Even on his own "pop" albums you will rarely find a tune that he wrote.

Totally agree. It seems to be a frustration to him that MJ always gets brought up whenever he's interviewed. Then again, so are Ray Charles and Sinatra, and he never seems to slam them. Perhaps there is resentment over the fact that MJ decided to part ways with him after Bad.

Maybe that, or maybe he feels oveshadowed by MJ. While he is always asked about Ray Charles or Sinatra too, but if you had to ask people on the street to say the title of an album that Quincy Jones produced I bet most would not say a Ray Charles or Sinatra album but one of MJ's albums. Maybe he doesn't like that because he feels there's more to his career. But of course this is just speculation and none of it justifies some of his comments.

 

[SoCav]

Depends on what we mean by "needing Michael".

I know that he was revered before Michael but I think Thriller alone probably sold more than Q's entire catalogue with other artists. Then add Bad and Off The Wall too... I know that commercial success is not everything, but when it comes to royalties I'd guess most of the royalties Quincy gets comes from his work with Michael. At least I don't remember any other truly blockbuster hit record from the rest of his catalogue.

And while he was always respected within the industry, but Michael gave him an even bigger fame - also outside of the industry. Whether he "needed" that fame or money or not only he could tell, but maybe he should give a bit more respect to Michael without whom that would not have been possible. Michael always gave him respect and love. He never trashed him.

With 'needing Michael' I was thinking of his artistic reputation, in response to the discussion that arose before about whether he was a genius or not. I think his work with Michael without a doubt enhanced his reputation (and most certainly his fame and the size of his bank account), but I think he would be called a genius by many regardless of it. He did benefit a lot from their partnership though, and I totally agree that it's ridiculous that he trashes Michael the way he does.

Actually, this is what I wrote:

I know he has a huge jazz/soundtrack catalogue and I know he wrote more music there, but when it comes to his "pop" records he mostly relied on other songwriters' talents. Even on his own "pop" albums you will rarely find a tune that he wrote.

I get your point, but I disagree that you will rarely find a tune that he wrote on most of his commercially oriented albums. On 'Body Heat', for instance, which hit #6 on the pop charts, he co-wrote 4 of the 9 tracks. 'The Dude' is the only album that comes to mind right now on which he did not write anything.

Maybe that, or maybe he feels oveshadowed by MJ. While he is always asked about Ray Charles or Sinatra too, but if you had to ask people on the street to say the title of an album that Quincy Jones produced I bet most would not say a Ray Charles or Sinatra album but one of MJ's albums. Maybe he doesn't like that because he feels there's more to his career. But of course this is just speculation and none of it justifies some of his comments.

Yeah, who knows... It does sound plausible.

 

[Koopa Troopa]

Does anyone know if there is any interview out there where Quincy shares his thoughts on Michael's post-bad albums? I'm really curious!

I read in Joseph Vogel's book "Man In The Music" that Quincy Jones called the Dangerous album "a masterpiece."

 

[MoeJack]

I read in Joseph Vogel's book "Man In The Music" that Quincy Jones called the Dangerous album "a masterpiece."

Yea me too, but I wonder what interview that was from? I was kind've disappointed in the latest interview with Quincy where the interviewer first asked what Quincy thought of the new album but then was about to ask what he thought of post-Bad Michael Jackson, but Quincy had already started to respond to the previous question lol. I really want to know!

 

[HIStory]

I get your point, but I disagree that you will rarely find a tune that he wrote on most of his commercially oriented albums. On 'Body Heat', for instance, which hit #6 on the pop charts, he co-wrote 4 of the 9 tracks. 'The Dude' is the only album that comes to mind right now on which he did not write anything.

On Back on The Block he co-wrote three songs out of 11. On Q's Jook Joint he fully wrote one song and co-wrote two songs (on one of those two songs he only wrote the lyrics) out of 12 songs. And most of those were rehashed from his old material anyway. I don't see him as a prolific songwriter on his "pop" albums.

 

[SoCav]

On Back on The Block he co-wrote three songs out of 11. On Q's Jook Joint he fully wrote one song and co-wrote two songs (on one of those two songs he only wrote the lyrics) out of 12 songs. And most of those were rehashed from his old material anyway. I don't see him as a prolific songwriter on his "pop" albums.

Oh I agree that he was not an incredibly prolific songwriter on those albums, I only responded to your point about rarely finding a song he wrote on one of his commercial albums. Except for 'The Dude', I think he (co-)wrote songs on all his commercially oriented albums.

In any case, we agree on the bigger issue, namely, that it is ridiculous and a shame that many people seem to think Quincy was the songwriting mastermind behind Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad.

 

[lil'bit]

double post

 

[lil'bit]

The wizard Quincy, after BAD, was going to recreate another Michael Jackson - with Tevin Campbell: cute hearttrob of early '90s - because all you need is Quincy's genius and masterful guiding hand ... Let's see where they are now (just on fb likes):

Michael Jackson - 74,493,306
Tevin Campbell - 311

:busted:

 

[HIStory]

The wizard Quincy, after BAD, was going to recreate another Michael Jackson - with Tevin Campbell: cute hearttrob of early '90s - because all you need is Quincy's genius and masterful guiding hand ... Let's see where they are now (just on fb likes):

Michael Jackson - 74,493,306
Tevin Campbell - 311

:busted:

I like Tevin and actually he is talented. Not just a heartthrob but a great vocalist. But yeah it takes more than that AND it takes more than Quincy Jones to be Michael Jackson.

 

[JichaelMackson58]

He's just wanting a quick payment. The media aren't going to pay attention to anything positive

 

[marebear]

I am just going to say that I don't get him. Sometimes I think he really loved Michael and then other times like has a grudge against Michael. But no matter what Michael always thanked him and appreciated him always.

 

[Petrarose]

I didn't. I actually agree with you about not attacking MJ for it, but was simply giving my opinion on why he might've said such a thing.

Q is an adult, so if as you think the fan community bashed him and he is now retaliating, then as an adult he would retaliate against the fan community, not Michael who did not do anything to him. Anyway there are several threads in the forum, where we have Q speaking disparagingly about Michael and michael's work. Therefore Q has a history of doing this. Yes he has great talent and did wonderful work. It is his unprovoked dismissal of Michael and Michael's art that is the problem. He is fighting the estate for money so I guess that is one of the reasons he talks about estate/Xscape/money in that manner. I do believe that if he is owned money, then he should get it. I hope the estate never works with him on a project. Since he was not in Bad 25, maybe I have nothing to worry about.

 

[SpencerR]

Why does Quincy take away credit from the man who gave him his credibility in the first place? MJ was much more than what he makes him out to be here, and more. Just because he wasn't involved in MJ's work post-BAD doesn't give him a right to strip MJ of his well deserved credibility.