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Questions about Behind The Mask

Themidwestcowboy

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Can someone help me with the timeline and all the different versions of Behind The Mask?

So if I understand it correctly, Behind The Mask was first introduced to Michael by Quincy. Michael later recorded a demo for it, and this demo became available on Thriller 40 (Mike’s Mix). Michael and Quincy then recorded the song in Westlake and pushed for its inclusion on Thriller but couldn’t reach an agreement with Yellow Magic Orchestra regarding the split of the royalties, so it got shelved. “Mike’s Mix” is the same as “Behind The Mask 2010” only with updated instrumentation and a different vocal arrangement and we’ve yet to hear Michael’s final version of Behind the Mask right?

So here is where Greg Philliganes comes in. So my first instinct would be that Michael probably showed it to Greg, but knowing that Greg was one of the key players when it came to the production aspects of Thriller, I think it’s more likely that he already knew of its existence and probably also played on the song. On Greg’s version he’s not listed as a writer on the song, only YMO and Michael are. We already know the parts YMO wrote for the song, but there are additional and more finalized lyrics for Greg’s version which means that those lyrics can be attributed to Michael. So there is a version of Behind The Mask with those lyrics sung by Michael. Then after this we have the Eric Clapton version which also has the same lyrics as Greg’s version but with only YMO, and Michael (uncredited) as writers.

A bit long winded but what I wanted to ask is: am I right in saying that the we haven’t heard the true, final version of Behind The Mask that was meant for Thriller?
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
So if I understand it correctly, Behind The Mask was first introduced to Michael by Quincy. Michael later recorded a demo for it, and this demo became available on Thriller 40 (Mike’s Mix). Michael and Quincy then recorded the song in Westlake and pushed for its inclusion on Thriller but couldn’t reach an agreement with Yellow Magic Orchestra regarding the split of the royalties, so it got shelved.
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Yes.
Themidwestcowboy said:
“Mike’s Mix” is the same as “Behind The Mask 2010” only with updated instrumentation and a different vocal arrangement
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I don't think so.
Themidwestcowboy said:
and we’ve yet to hear Michael’s final version of Behind the Mask right?
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correct
 
Fuzball said:
Yes.

I don't think so.

correct
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Regarding Mike’s Mix and BTM 2010, I believe what I really wanted to say is that the vocals in those two songs comes from the same “demo session” of Behind The Mask right? Some lines are identical on those versions while some have slightly different lyrics, which can be explained by a different take. Even the sound quality sounds the same with the exception of being better mixed on the 2010 version. This would make sense since the estate aren’t allowed to use any Quincy material.

Regarding this being considered for Victory, what a missed opportunity if that’s the case.
 
So I wonder what the final outcome of BTM had been if Quincy and Michael finished it; I'm thinking they would have made it a whole lot funkier than the YMO version..? Horns?
 
Victorious said:
So I wonder what the final outcome of BTM had been if Quincy and Michael finished it; I'm thinking they would have made it a whole lot funkier than the YMO version..? Horns?
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And Saxophone and cheering crowd noises lifted from MJs concert crowd in a concert he wouldn't be at until about 10 years later.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
And Saxophone and cheering crowd noises lifted from MJs concert crowd in a concert he wouldn't be at until about 10 years later.
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Haha yes this! I mean, this is one of the better remixes tbh but how hard can it be to determine the right era of a demo, research how they played music in that era, find the same synths and create something that's not like totally out of context..??

Not only does the 'Michael' version have 90's samples, the music also sounds late 80's instead of early 80s's

#geekmode off
 
My theory is Quincy heard the YMO version and showed it to Michael and asked him to write some lyrics to it. Which resulted in Mike's Mix released on Thriller 40

Then the Westlake team worked on the song further and it became something like Greg Phillinganes's version of the song produced by Q and the "A Team" . Greg's version has Michael collaborators credited on it.

Then the Michael version is something entirely different, although if I remember rightly David Williams was credited on guitar, Paulinho Da Costa on percussion and Greg Phillinganes is credited on drums and keyboards. So maybe some of the Q version from 82 was retained? Unless they came back to work on the song in 2010?

Great thread as always brother
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
My theory is Quincy heard the YMO version and showed it to Michael and asked him to write some lyrics to it. Which resulted in Mike's Mix released on Thriller 40

Then the Westlake team worked on the song further and it became something like Greg Phillinganes's version of the song produced by Q and the "A Team" . Greg's version has Michael collaborators credited on it.
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Yes could be but Greg's version already sounds more modern, I can't imagine the song on 'Thriller' with that snare drum tbh. Also it's very much YMO and not very soulful..
 
Victorious said:
Yes could be but Greg's version already sounds more modern, I can't imagine the song on 'Thriller' with that snare drum tbh. Also it's very much YMO and not very soulful..
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Yeah, I just know the version there is out there does not sound like the Clapton, Phillinganes versions.
 
Behind the Mask doesn’t fit Thriller to me but would’ve been better on the original version of the album. I can’t hear it on Victory either.

I’d have to hear a fully mixed version because the 2 we have don’t feel authentic
 
BlackAnon said:
Behind the Mask doesn’t fit Thriller to me but would’ve been better on the original version of the album. I can’t hear it on Victory either.

I’d have to hear a fully mixed version because the 2 we have don’t feel authentic
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It feels very much like the fiercely funky cousin to Wanna Be Startin' Somethin to me. Has that same funny rhythm. I could see it continuing that sound, funny enough.
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
My theory is Quincy heard the YMO version and showed it to Michael and asked him to write some lyrics to it. Which resulted in Mike's Mix released on Thriller 40

Then the Westlake team worked on the song further and it became something like Greg Phillinganes's version of the song produced by Q and the "A Team" . Greg's version has Michael collaborators credited on it.

Then the Michael version is something entirely different, although if I remember rightly David Williams was credited on guitar, Paulinho Da Costa on percussion and Greg Phillinganes is credited on drums and keyboards. So maybe some of the Q version from 82 was retained? Unless they came back to work on the song in 2010?

Great thread as always brother
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That’s a good take brother! I could very much be but, as you, I’m also interested in how the 2010 mix fit into this? If you think about it, all the thriller era outtakes that other artist recorded in the 80s sounds vastly different then Michael’s versions such as, Nite Line, Love Never Felt So Good, Got The Hots etc. All though I believe there’s a big possibility that MJ’s and Q’s version of BTM sounded somewhat close to Greg’s version, I believe that there’s probably enough that differentiates the two.
 
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BlackAnon said:
Behind the Mask doesn’t fit Thriller to me but would’ve been better on the original version of the album. I can’t hear it on Victory either.

I’d have to hear a fully mixed version because the 2 we have don’t feel authentic
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The only thing I have an issue with is what song it would replace? Thriller is perfect as it is imo. Victory on the other hand? You could easily put it in there. It’s not like there was a cohesive Sonic direction for that album anyways.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
The only thing I have an issue with is what song it would replace? Thriller is perfect as it is imo. Victory on the other hand? You could easily put it in there. It’s not like there was a cohesive Sonic direction for that album anyways.
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For me, I think Victory is sonically cohesive but IF it would’ve replaced a song, it would be Body or We Can Change the World
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
The only thing I have an issue with is what song it would replace? Thriller is perfect as it is imo. Victory on the other hand? You could easily put it in there. It’s not like there was a cohesive Sonic direction for that album anyways.
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Baby Be Mine is my vote. Or it could just be a 10th track like Hot Street was supposed to be. Dare I say, 11, if both make it.
 
BlackAnon said:
For me, I think Victory is sonically cohesive but IF it would’ve replaced a song, it would be Body or We Can Change the World
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Yes, I’d replace BTM with any of those songs.
I’ll even go as far and say:

BTM >>>>>> State Of Shock >>>>> Be Not Always
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Baby Be Mine is my vote. Or it could just be a 10th track like Hot Street was supposed to be. Dare I say, 11, if both make it.
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No way. BBM’s synth bass is way too awesome to get ditched. I also love the vocals very much. If you’re going to throw out one song, my pick would be PYT
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It feels very much like the fiercely funky cousin to Wanna Be Startin' Somethin to me. Has that same funny rhythm. I could see it continuing that sound, funny enough.
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Yeah I like the funky rhythm too. And maybe it would even be cool if they saved te electro drum beat of 'Mike's Mix' too; that would have sounded pretty fresh at the time imo
 
filmandmusic said:
No way. BBM’s synth bass is way too awesome to get ditched. I also love the vocals very much. If you’re going to throw out one song, my pick would be PYT
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Weddings, anniversaries, and parties would fall apart without p.y.t, no way. Let's just cut Wanna Be Startin' Somethin and Human Nature down further. Put the full lengths on the 45s.
 
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