Question about the song Joy? Why was it never included on Dangeorus

BabeBeMine

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
309
Points
0
Location
USA
The song Joy was written by Michael Jackson and ended up going to Blackstreet. Does anyone know why it wasnt used for the Dangerous album? One of the reasons i don't think Dangerous was on Off The Wall or Thriller's level was there was no love jams. It's hard to be a classic r&b album without some love jams.

Joy is the jam and should have been included on the album.
 
I think the reason off the wall and Thriller was never on dangerous' level was cos it didnt have any real dark gritty tracks
 
it's an alright tune, a bit generic. but i guess Mike just didn't see it fit for the final cut, though i'd prefer it over something like Keep The Faith.
 
it's an alright tune, a bit generic. but i guess Mike just didn't see it fit for the final cut, though i'd prefer it over something like Keep The Faith.

I don't know Joy but I love keep the faith, it's got that gospel sound to it and the vocals are amazing, to me at least.
 
I think the reason off the wall and Thriller was never on dangerous' level was cos it didnt have any real dark gritty tracks

Dangerous is only considered better to die hard fans. Not non fans and current artist who look up to MJ.

When you hear artist like Ne Yo, Usher, Justin, Chris Brown speak about MJ albums its always Off The Wall and Thriller. The die hard fans are going to buy whatever you put out, but if non fans and simply the average music fan is not feeling it then your sales will slow down very fast after 2 weeks of your die hard fan base buying up the album.
 
that's cuz they accept Michael to be an '80s artist only. fake admirers.

None of them respect the true masterpieces that are dangerous and history.


btw where can i hear this song?
 
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lkeZqZBqoZY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lkeZqZBqoZY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
That track is hot. Im not meaning to put down Dangerous but i just think the album would be more complete with just 1 or 2 love jams. Maybe take off She Drives me Wild.
 
Well, it's possible Teddy Riley did more mixing on the track and that the vocals weren't even there yet. The original "Joy" could have been an unnamed beat, who knows. It is a great song though.
 
I think one of the big differences from Dangerous to Off The Wall and Thriller is that everybody has copied both Off The Wall and Thriller, but no one has yet come up with anything that sounds close to Dangerous. Same for History. There is nothing in the world that sounds like those two albums. That's why, I believe, they're not as popular or rightfully rated as his earlier work...because nobody understands Dangerous and History. Through those two albums Michael talks with no one culturally! He stands alone! There are no flaws! I think that makes people uncomfortable! People are afraid of the unknown! It's beautiful scary to me....


RS
 
See, this whole thread is going to go straight in to the toilet because you had to say "Dangerous" isn't as strong as "OTW" or "Thriller".

"Dangerous" has more pop on it then R&B anyway. "Remember The Time" is a love song, just mid-tempo. And he's got ballads. "Gone Too Soon", "Heal The World". They're not love songs, but they're still strong tracks.

Did Michael compose this song on his own and is he doing background vocals?
 
Last edited:
The intro and verses of Joy sound a helluva lot like the chorus from PYT 08 to me, albeit in a different key, I think the chord pattern is the same. And the melody too, barring embellishments.
 
Sounds nice, but I'm not in a mood for love songs right now. I'll come back to it when I can listen to it.
 
According to For The Record:

JOY
Song Michael wrote the melody to, with a view to including it on his
album, DANGEROUS. Tammy Lucas added lyrics but, ultimately,
Michael wasn’t happy with the song and didn’t record it.

Recorded by Teddy Riley’s BLACKstreet, for the group’s eponymous
debut album in 1994. Released as a single in 1995 – charted at no.12 on
the R&B singles chart and no.43 on the Hot 100 in the States, and
no.56 in the UK.
‘Uptown Joy’ remix sampled Michael’s I Can’t Help It.
 
Very nice , michael shouldn't sing it alone .. & Perform it live @ The Dangerous Tour (A)
 
that's cuz they accept Michael to be an '80s artist only. fake admirers.

None of them respect the true masterpieces that are dangerous and history.


btw where can i hear this song?
Exactly!!! Wat a bunch of fake admirers who just follows whatever the media propagates. Indeed, History and Dangerous are true masterpieces!!!! In the closet, Give in to me, Little Susie, Earth song, They don't care about us some of my favourites!! Many non fans I know love Earth song, TDCAU and Who is it.
The stupid media can't ignore Thriller so it tries to fool the public into believing that it's his only good album.
It tries to mislead the public into thinking that he was only good when he was black.
 
Exactly!!! Wat a bunch of fake admirers who just follows whatever the media propagates. Indeed, History and Dangerous are true masterpieces!!!! In the closet, Give in to me, Little Susie, Earth song, They don't care about us some of my favourites!! Many non fans I know love Earth song, TDCAU and Who is it.
The stupid media can't ignore Thriller so it tries to fool the public into believing that it's his only good album.
It tries to mislead the public into thinking that he was only good when he was black.

how do you know they don't like those albums?
you can't blame someone for liking off the wall & thriller more than his other albums, some fans on here i'm sure like those albums more, are they 'fake admirers'??

jeez some people
 
According to For The Record:

‘Uptown Joy’ remix sampled Michael’s I Can’t Help It.
it's a great version:

Uptown Joy









i also liked two other remixes (remakes) by Teddy:

Cool Joy








Joy (Quiet Storm Instumental)









both featuring Stevie Wonder's sax player, Mike Philips.


eightnoterojo said:
The intro and verses of Joy sound a helluva lot like the chorus from PYT 08 to me, albeit in a different key, I think the chord pattern is the same. And the melody too, barring embellishments.
true, but they're both a bit 'generic'. and that was what Mike originally demo'd for PYT back in the 80s (Will just remixed it). so no doubt he got the idea for Joy from it, consciously or not lol
 
That track is hot. Im not meaning to put down Dangerous but i just think the album would be more complete with just 1 or 2 love jams. Maybe take off She Drives me Wild.

OMG NO!!! I love Joy, but to trade She Drives me Wild for it... I mean She Drives me Wild is the COOOLEST song.. I love it.. I just think MJ should put Joy on a box set or something.. :cheeky:
 
Dangerous is only considered better to die hard fans. Not non fans and current artist who look up to MJ.

When you hear artist like Ne Yo, Usher, Justin, Chris Brown speak about MJ albums its always Off The Wall and Thriller. The die hard fans are going to buy whatever you put out, but if non fans and simply the average music fan is not feeling it then your sales will slow down very fast after 2 weeks of your die hard fan base buying up the album.

I do not agree..

'Dangerous' was more creative and far for it's time when it comes to sound engineering. How can you mix a rock track with an R&B rhytm so perfectly?? Then again.. The structure in the songs were awesome!! Yes I am a fan, not die hard, but I know Michaels discography.

On a creative spot 'Dangerous' was better than 'Thriller'. But when it comes to marketing, 'Thriller' and especially 'Bad' are winners..
 
that was what Mike originally demo'd for PYT back in the 80s (Will just remixed it). so no doubt he got the idea for Joy from it, consciously or not lol
Good point. Well, there we have it then; eventually, some form of the original made it onto an album...
 
yea joy was just a piece and there of the Original PYT and i guess in the end MJ didn't feel Joy was that strong of a cut. i mean it was cool but not a track where you go that is a monster cut.
 
I've always loved that song and it would have interesting to hear Michael's take on it, but I think MJ made the right decision in the end. "Joy" just didn't fit with the rest of the songs on "Dangerous". I would still love to hear a recording of MJ singing it though.

I think the reason off the wall and Thriller was never on dangerous' level was cos it didnt have any real dark gritty tracks

Why does an album have to have dark, gritty tracks for it to be good anyway? But that is a matter of a opinion as to whether or not those albums are as good as "Dangerous" (and many would disagree) but that wasn't the direction Michael was going in during that time. Michael and Quincy were trying to craft perfect, pop songs with great melodies that would appeal to pretty much everyone and they succeeded obviously. Those albums have a universal sound, whereas "Dangerous" does not. I don't mind however, I think "Dangerous" is a really good album, even if I still think it's a bit overrated by fans. I like that Michael changed up his sound and style on that album though and on "History" as well. It showed his versatility as an artist. From an artistic view, I think his later work is much more interesting than his earlier stuff.
 
Last edited:


reminds me very much to "Someone put your hand out".
nothing special tho. not hard to understand why it wasnt on Dangerous.
 
Actually I'm glad this one didn't made it to the final track list.

I don't think it would fit on the album really. It's an OK song, but not up to Mike's standard IMO.
 
I do not agree..

'Dangerous' was more creative and far for it's time when it comes to sound engineering. How can you mix a rock track with an R&B rhytm so perfectly?? Then again.. The structure in the songs were awesome!! Yes I am a fan, not die hard, but I know Michaels discography.

On a creative spot 'Dangerous' was better than 'Thriller'. But when it comes to marketing, 'Thriller' and especially 'Bad' are winners..

I completely disagree. The dance tracks on Off the Wall and Thriller vocally are far superior and thats what makes those 2 albums more classic. Anyone can get a great beat. Just get a popular hip hop producer to handle the beats like Teddy Riley did. What makes your songs catchy are the vocals, melody and for ppl to be able to sing along to it.

But Off the Wall and Thriller up tempo tracks. The vocals are far superior as well as the melodies. The dance tracks are just more catchy. Even the fillers like "Burn This Disco Out" and "Get on the Floor" on the Off the Wall album. Compare the vocals and how catch and easy it is to sing along with those songs compared to "She Drives Me Wild" , "Cant Let her Get Away" , " Jam". You can barely understand what MJ is saying on some of those Dangerous up tempo tracks. He's not really singing. With the excepton of Remember the Time.

Where's that Human Nature, Lady in My life on Dangerous. I dont consider Keep the Faith a love jam
 
Michael took on a more stacatto style of vocal for the dance tracks on "Dangerous". It's a very different flavor from "Off The Wall" or "Thriller". That doesn't mean it's not as good. While "OTW" sported more of the disco sounds of the late 70s and early 80s, and "Thriller" had more of a smooth pop sound, "Dangerous'" dance tracks were more hip hop flavored and even rock. You listen to "Black Or White", which is extremely danceable, and it has a rock flavor. Michael's vocals weren't any less on "Dangerous", they were just different. Very, very few singers can pull off that style, with the way Michael shreds and cuts his words and makes his phraising choppy and stunted, again that stacatto vibe. It's brilliant. But just like the vocal sounds he incorporates in to his singing, the timting and control involved, doesn't get the credit it deserves, niether does Michael's versatile and varied singing styles.
 

it's a great version:

Uptown Joy

&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp



i also liked two other remixes (remakes) by Teddy:

Cool Joy

&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp


Joy (Quiet Storm Instumental)

&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp
&ampampampnbsp



both featuring Stevie Wonder's sax player, Mike Philips.

Thanks you guys for posting those tracks. It was nice hearing them again after so long.

As far as someone saying it didnt fit...well, I beg to differ.
Surely you cant be suprised as to how MJ can pull off the unexpected.
My friend didnt think GONE TOO SOON or KEEP THE FAITH "fit" but looky where they are! Lol.

I dont know why JOY wasnt included on Dangerous, but to me, it made it right
to where it should be... on BLACKSTREETS' album.:)
 
I completely disagree. The dance tracks on Off the Wall and Thriller vocally are far superior and thats what makes those 2 albums more classic. Anyone can get a great beat. Just get a popular hip hop producer to handle the beats like Teddy Riley did. What makes your songs catchy are the vocals, melody and for ppl to be able to sing along to it.

But Off the Wall and Thriller up tempo tracks. The vocals are far superior as well as the melodies. The dance tracks are just more catchy. Even the fillers like "Burn This Disco Out" and "Get on the Floor" on the Off the Wall album. Compare the vocals and how catch and easy it is to sing along with those songs compared to "She Drives Me Wild" , "Cant Let her Get Away" , " Jam". You can barely understand what MJ is saying on some of those Dangerous up tempo tracks. He's not really singing. With the excepton of Remember the Time.

Where's that Human Nature, Lady in My life on Dangerous. I dont consider Keep the Faith a love jam

Beats aren't everything. Ever heard a tremendous beat only for the singer/rapper/whomever to totally kill the vibe with their singing, lyrics or lack thereof? Likewise, ever heard someone with a good voice who just can't find the right songs to stand out and separate themselves? It's not as simple as hiring a good hip-hop producer. Plus, MJ wrote some of those songs on his own, and he's heavily involved in the producing and writing of tracks himself.

Also, MJ's phrasing and the way he pronounces words are a trademark and only helped set him apart and make him more famous.

"He's not really singing".

That really couldn't be more further from the truth. Remember, everything he does on a track has to be on key, in tune and in pitch, regardless whether he's quietly singing, singing loudly, or really throwing his voice hard. Go ahead and try to ad-lib to "Who Is It" very loudly and stay in tune and in pitch and see how you sound. On "Black Or White", he has a lot of melody in his background vocals (which he does himself). On "Can't Let Her Get Away", what about the lead-in to the chorus where he sings in falsetto? That's not singing? The chorus of "She Drives Me Wild". How many people can hit those notes? Listen to the chorus, the background vocals and how MJ sings and has his voice layered to sound like a complete choir... that most certainly is "singing". And even in the parts where he's not singing what you or I probably consider "traditional singing", he's still very much singing... it's just a different kind of singing.

I think this really boils down to what genre of music and vocal style you like more. I actually love R&B/Soul more than any other genre, yet "Dangerous" is my favorite album by MJ because of how unique it was: it was almost like a culmination of his entire career coming together.
 
Back
Top