[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[helena1247]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

^^this is the forum section for "Katherine Jackson versus AEG Live lawsuit". The topic is the whatever the lawsuit will cover - negligent hiring of Murray.

ETA: and seriously I'm annoyed with your non stop twisting of what we say.

Twisting? I have not even referred to you and simply answered questions.

And this is not "another" topic - it is the very essence of the claims against AEG and the essence of their guilt.

They humiliated Michael and ignored his most basic need - a chance just to relax after the show.

He asked them but they refused.

They denied him what he needed and valued most during the shows - SLEEP.

They drove him into tremendous stress already in March 2009 after which he evidently lost all sleep whatsoever even at the stage of rehearsals.

If this stress had not been inflicted Michael's situation would have been totally different - he would have survived and would have successfully made the shows.
If the shows had been twice a week at the most, no need for Propofol would have arisen at all.

He was 50 and had not performed for 12 years and he deserved some comfort. He should have been spared.

But he was not.

The stress he had to go through was uncalled for and it was INTENTIONAL because AEG KNEW.

But almost all people here do not care.

What they want to do instead is drag the poor man's mother through the mud pretending that they are taking care of Michael.

Does anyone here give a damn for Michael at all or does everyone pay only lip service to him?

 

[Autumn II]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

^^

this is the forum section for "Katherine Jackson versus AEG Live lawsuit". The topic is the whatever the lawsuit will cover - negligent hiring of Murray.

For any other topic, the discussion is better done in an appropriate section at an appropriate thread. Our forum is large enough to discuss multiple different issues over multiple threads.

You are free to start a discussion topic about AEG contract and anyone interested about contract details can join you there. These threads are better served to be focused on trial matters.

ETA: and seriously I'm annoyed with your non stop twisting of what we say.

Thank you, Ivy. There is enough stress on the eve of the trial without all these multiple topics (again!) here. I, too, have become annoyed (underwear forming a bunch, if you know what I mean?), and in particular with the "you are not a TRUE FAN if. . . " . . . you do not believe this, instead of that. That trend is extremely counter-productive at this juncture.

Anyone here can choose to support K.J., or not support, but the volume of words thrown at that idea will probably not change many minds at this point. It is what it is, and what she's done (or not done) is part of her past, now. We move forward, and the next issue-at-hand is the TRIAL, that all must get through. . . .

 

[Paris78]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

We move forward, and the next issue-at-hand is the TRIAL, that all must get through. . . .

And at the end all the matters is our love for Michael !!!

 

[LastTear]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

All sides claim Michael was an addict, and to prove it we are going to hear from both sides evidence that will make our blood boil and our hearts weep, this is so hard standing by just waiting for Michael to be dragged through the mud in the interests of so called 'justice'. And for what? For AEG to be told they shouldn't have hired Murray.

I wish this trial would just go away and spare Michael the humiliation it's going to bring. If that makes me a bad fan then so be it.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

And at the end all the matters is our love for Michael !!!

Your vid was just what I needed. I watched with the volume off (as I'm at work), but it still warmed me, despite a rush of familiar tears. I miss him. Hate the trashing of him again that's ahead, but vids like this remind me, nothing and no one can take away what MJ has given me and will always mean to me. Thank you for sharing.

 

[shelly_webster]

And for what? For AEG to be told they shouldn't have hired Murray.

I wish this trial would just go away and spare Michael the humiliation it's going to bring. If that makes me a bad fan then so be it.

It's not even sure, the case is far from being à slam dunk. If AEG won, then it was for nothing. Hopefully, we will learn things about the Jacksons.

 

[Tygger]

Last Tear, no I am not talking about doctor/patient privilege, I am talking about Dr. Finkelstein’s deposition and what he stated Gongaware was aware of.

Shelley Webster, grief has no protocol and there are plenty of ways to express it. The same family member who penned a book also reclaimed many of Michael’s items through auctions and have given those items to his children.

 

[ivy]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

If the shows had been twice a week at the most, no need for Propofol would have arisen at all.

good for you, you know everything. we aren't worthy.

I have to say I'm curious that when you will realize it's not people don't care, it's just they don't agree with your version of events.

 

[passy001]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

50 concerts in 9 months sound like 5-6 concerts a month. And this is probably how AEG and Tohme presented it to Michael, operating in "average" figures.

But in reality they planned for him two legs in the first of which Michael Jackson was to perform 21 shows every other day and in the second leg he was to perform 17 shows every other day.

What do average figures mean? Nothing.

Michael fell into a panic when he realized the real schedule.

How come he did not notice it before? And how come the fans have not noticed it for four years since his death?

This is completely off topic. It's got nothing to do with the coming trial. the trial is about negligent hiring of Murray.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Yeah agree its ruining the thread. Theres other sections for this talk. the trial has nothing to do with that

 

[LastTear]

Last Tear, no I am not talking about doctor/patient privilege, I am talking about Dr. Finkelstein’s deposition and what he stated Gongaware was aware of.

Shelley Webster, grief has no protocol and there are plenty of ways to express it. The same family member who penned a book also reclaimed many of Michael’s items through auctions and have given those items to his children.

But Michael didn't die from the type of drugs Dr Finkelstein gave him. I haven't seen his whole deposition but I am referring to the possibility that AEG did not know exactly what drugs CM was giving Michael.

 

[marebear]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Just because I don't support this trial happening doesn't mean I am not a true fan. That's INSULTING.
If you support this trial you are not a bad fan either. AEG are using the addict angle and it seems some are forgetting that mother is doing the same thing. Her own lawyer said in court "they hired an addicted man and gave him his drug pusher" or something like that. I don't support any of the crap AEG or mother are going to bring to the table. Anybody that would think that Michael would like his own children doing depositions at their age and probably testify in a court of law needs a reality check. He would make sure his children were out of it. If someone told Michael he needed his kids to make or help his case he wouldn't do it. He would sacrifice himself for their well being. I care very much what happened to Michael and he would be here today if Murray was a responsible and ethical doctor. Michael would still be here if Murray had watched him and tilted his chin up when he saw a problem. But then we have him saying he did nothing wrong and it wasn't his fault. But that's okay right? Where is the care over that? I still cry over Michael being gone. If I didn't care it wouldn't hurt so much.

 

[passy001]

[General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

Twisting? I have not even referred to you and simply answered questions.

And this is not "another" topic - it is the very essence of the claims against AEG and the essence of their guilt.

They humiliated Michael and ignored his most basic need - a chance just to relax after the show.

He asked them but they refused.

They denied him what he needed and valued most during the shows - SLEEP.

They drove him into tremendous stress already in March 2009 after which he evidently lost all sleep whatsoever even at the stage of rehearsals.

If this stress had not been inflicted Michael's situation would have been totally different - he would have survived and would have successfully made the shows.

If the shows had been twice a week at the most, no need for Propofol would have arisen at all.

He was 50 and had not performed for 12 years and he deserved some comfort. He should have been spared.

But he was not.

The stress he had to go through was uncalled for and it was INTENTIONAL because AEG KNEW.

But almost all people here do not care.

What they want to do instead is drag the poor man's mother through the mud pretending that they are taking care of Michael.

Does anyone here give a damn for Michael at all or does everyone pay only lip service to him?

Please take the conspiracy theory talk to another thread. This has got nothing to do with the trial.

PS: Please can someone post the link to the conspiracy thread for Helena. She's deviating from the main topic.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I think we need to get back to main topic.

AMEN to that!!!

Quick question: Who will be sitting at the table with Putnam from AEG's side? I guess Katherine will be sitting at the table with her lawyer & I assume the minor children will not be there.

 

[StellaJackson]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I support Katherine. She is doing the right thing and I hope she gets justice.

 

[ivy]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I support Katherine. She is doing the right thing and I hope she gets justice.

I just wanted to quote this to show that it's possible to express your opinions without insulting other fans. Thanks Stella.

 

[morinen]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Helena,

what you are advocating here is an abuse of U.S. legal system. Let me give you two examples:

1) You are asking a friend to drive to a store and buy a couple of things for you. On his way to the store your friend hits and kills a pedestrian. Are you liable for this person's death because your friend caused it while running errands for you? Obviously not. In the same way as AEG is not liable for Michael's death even though Murray may have caused it while doing emails for them.

2) You lend $5000 under a promissory note to a friend, because he wants to start a new business and promises to pay you back as soon as the business takes off. Then you start realizing that your friend is dragging his feet and not putting enough heart and effort in making the business successful, and you realize it may not pay back after all. So you start pushing your friend to work on this business more, because its success is in your mutual interest. Your friend feels bad under pressure, gets drunk and dies in an accident. Are you liable for his death just because you wanted your money to be repaid and tried to make him work harder? No. In the same way AEG is not liable for Michael's death just because they put a pressure on him.

That is why most of Katherine's claims have been dismissed by the judge, and only negligent hiring stands. Now you are advocating to use that to "punish" AEG for what they are not legally liable for - for Michael's death. In other words, to use U.S. justice system for Katherine's and your personal vendetta. And you expect all other fans to support you in that. Why would they? Very few of MJ's fans care about Jacksons' personal vendetta.

You have to realize that most of Michael Jackson fans care only about Michael Jackson. Now that he is gone, they care only about his name, his image, his legacy and place in history, about what people will think of him in future. I don't know how closely you follow American and British press, but in case you haven't seen it, since this trial started Michael has been called "a junkie" (on multiple occasions), "not the real dad" (on multiple occasions), gross photos of his burned scalp have been shopped around in tabloids, and a picture of his lifeless naked body has appeared in National Enquirer in every American grocery store (I personally had to eat in restaurants for a week and avoid shopping, to protect myself from seeing it). Not to mention comments to all these articles that general public reads, where MJ was dissed and humiliated over and over again. It causes Michael's fans emotional pain to see this happening to him. And they WILL get angry at people who caused this to happen. All this happened ONLY because of this lawsuit brought on by Katherine and her lawyers who, on some occasions, intentionally brought up totally unrelated paternity and child molestation subjects that resulted in Michael being drugged through mud in the media again.

Let's remember year 1993 when Michael's private photos were taken and the length he went to to make sure they never become public. So why is his mother now okay with his naked photos being mocked and paraded in front of the whole country? What makes her - and you - think her/your personal vendetta and probable monetary punishment for AEG justify this abuse of her son? I personally find it very egoistical to want to satisfy your personal desire for "justice" at the expense of Michael.

I think most people here don't really care about the outcome of this lawsuit (I certainly don't) because for Michael it's irrelevant. We all know he had been pressured by AEG, we all know he died of propofol administered by Murray. That's it to the story. Whether AEG will be found guilty of negligent hiring or not, and whether Katherine gets the money or not is irrelevant, because it doesn't change anything in Michael's story and legacy. The only result of this lawsuit for him - regardless of its outcome - is that his reputation will be shredded once again. He is used and abused for the sake of Katherine's vendetta and financial prosperity. He is already losing in this lawsuit every day, with every new media article, and the hearings haven't even started yet. For Michael this lawsuit is evil. And it was brought on him by his own mother. Do you see my point? I'm not asking you to agree, but do you see it?

 

[Petrarose]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Stella has always been consistent in supporting Katherine & the family. Many fans here are like that & that is OK. We all are Michael's fans & generally have good discussions here.

Gee on the eve of this trial, one wonders what the various parties are doing.

 

[jamba]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Helena,

what you are advocating here is an abuse of U.S. legal system. Let me give you two examples:

1) You are asking a friend to drive to a store and buy a couple of things for you. On his way to the store your friend hits and kills a pedestrian. Are you liable for this person's death because your friend caused it while running errands for you? Obviously not. In the same way, as AEG is not liable for Michael's death even though Murray may have caused it while doing emails for them.

2) You lend $5000 under a promissory note to a friend, because he wants to start a new business and promises to pay you back as soon as the business takes off. Then you start realizing that your friend is dragging his feet and not putting enough heart and effort in making the business successful, and you realize it may not pay back after all. So you start pushing your friend to work on this business more, because its success is in your mutual interest. Your friend feels bad under pressure, gets drunk and dies in an accident. Are you liable for his death just because you wanted your money to be repaid and tried to make him work harder? No. In the same way AEG is not liable for Michael's death just because they put a pressure on him.

That is why most of Katherine's claims have been dismissed by the judge, and only negligent hiring stands. Now you are advocating to use that to "punish" AEG for what they are not legally liable for - for Michael's death. In other words, to use U.S. justice system for Katherine's and your personal vendetta. And you expect all other fans to support you in that. Why would they? Very few of MJ's fans care about Jacksons' personal vendetta.

You have to realize that most of Michael Jackson fans care only about Michael Jackson. Now that he is gone, they care only about his name, his image, his legacy and place in history, about what people will think of him in future. I don't know how closely you follow American and British press, but in case you haven't seen it, since this trial had started Michael was called "a junkie" (on multiple occasions), "not the real dad" (on multiple occasions), gross photos of his burned scalp were shopped around the tabloids, and a picture of his lifeless naked body has appeared in National Enquirer in every American grocery store (I personally had to eat in restaurants for a week and avoid shopping, to protect myself from seeing it). Not to mention comments to all these articles that general public reads, where MJ was dissed and humiliated over and over again. It causes Michael's fans emotional pain to see this happening to him. And they WILL get angry at people who caused this to happen. All this happened ONLY because of this lawsuit brought on by Katherine and her lawyers who, on some occasions, intentionally brought up totally unrelated paternity and child molestation subjects that resulted in Michael being drugged through mud in the media again.

Let's remember year 1993 when Michael's private photos where taken and the length he went to to make sure they never become public. So why is his mother now okay with his naked photos being mocked and paraded in front of the whole country? What makes her - and you - think her/your personal vendetta and probable monetary punishment for AEG justify this abuse of her son? I personally find it very egoistical to want to satisfy your personal desire for "justice" at the expense of Michael.

I think most people here don't really care about the outcome of this lawsuit (I certainly don't) because for Michael it's irrelevant. We all know he had been pressured by AEG, we all know he died of propofol administered by Murray. That's it to the story. Whether AEG will be found guilty of negligent hiring or not, and whether Katherine gets the money or not is irrelevant, because it doesn't change anything for Michael's legacy. The only result of this lawsuit for him - regardless of its outcome - is that his reputation will be shredded once again. He is used and abused for the sake of Katherine's vendetta and financial prosperity. He is already losing in this lawsuit every day, with every new media article, and the hearings haven't even started yet. For Michael this lawsuit is evil. And it was brought on him by his own mother. Do you see my point? I'm not asking you to agree, but do you see it?

Thanks, Morinen--that was brilliant!!! You said it so well!

 

[Sunwalker7]

- - - The only result of this lawsuit for him - regardless of its outcome - is that his reputation will be shredded once again. He is used and abused for the sake of Katherine's vendetta and financial prosperity. He is already losing in this lawsuit every day, with every new media article, and the hearings haven't even started yet. For Michael this lawsuit is evil. And it was brought on him by his own mother. Do you see my point? I'm not asking you to agree, but do you see it?

This is pretty much what this boils down to for me. I don’t care about Katherine or her cubs or their financial situation. I only care about Michael and his legacy. And no matter who wins this lawsuit, Michael will lose. Doesn’t Katherine see that, or doesn’t she care?

Michael has been viciously attacked for decades now, his reputation torn to shreds, every little thing about him, his personality, health, appearance and private life has been mocked, criticized and made fun of for years and years. It just makes me really sad and tired.

This lawsuit will damage Michael. We already see it happening, and it will just get worse. And it’s not even just that we have to endure media nastiness for the duration of the trial, everything that is said and written about Michael will have long-lasting effects on his legacy. Every mocking article, every nasty rumour and every stupid joke will tarnish Michael’s image and legacy even further.

I don’t care if Katherine wins 40 billion dollars. Michael’s legacy is worth far more than that.

 

[addictMJJ]

do u think mj would be happy about the things his mother has said about her son. do u think hed he happy aboit howard mann about how HIS kids have been exploited. ppl get judged on their words and actions kj is no different. Do u think hrd say fine call me a druggie and alcoholic and put my medical tecords out there so the rest of the family can have money instead of working

I does not include/understand quite simply how have can support A E G which has know we it according to " the Emails " so badly treated Michael!!:: Vomi:
But good each one these opinions…

......................................................................................................................................................


On the other hand I hold has to say:
When you say “all” and I agree with : Arc:
“return about the topic” ok but the subject it is to judge Katherine?
not I do not believe!

topic titrates is? : A E G against Katherine Jackson (information)!!

I do not want to make of polemic but nevertheless allow me to be very badly has ease when the mom of Michael is maltreated and no matter what you say I think nevertheless that Michael will be to pain of that ......

How you, all that makes me so badly and fear of seeing how Michael still will be molesté at the time of this lawsuit!!!!: Ph34r:: Cry:: Cry:: Cry:: Cry:

 

[serendipity]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

MJ: They did the schedule wrong too. It was supposed to be show, day off, show, day off, show, day off.

Um, isn't that how the schedule was anyway initially?

 

[Tygger]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

But Michael didn't die from the type of drugs Dr Finkelstein gave him. I haven't seen his whole deposition but I am referring to the possibility that AEG did not know exactly what drugs CM was giving Michael.

This is what will be revealed at trial. We shall see if the defendants were aware or not.

 

[shelly_webster]

Last Tear, no I am not talking about doctor/patient privilege, I am talking about Dr. Finkelstein’s deposition and what he stated Gongaware was aware of.

Shelley Webster, grief has no protocol and there are plenty of ways to express it. The same family member who penned a book also reclaimed many of Michael’s items through auctions and have given those items to his children.

They sold the items via auction. Yes, there are plenty of way of grieving but money is not part of it. Family members, friends don't go to tabloids to talk about the kids paternity or to promote themselves or to talk about his plastic surgeries when they knew he didn't want to talk about it.

 

[shelly_webster]

Last Tear, no I am not talking about doctor/patient privilege, I am talking about Dr. Finkelstein’s deposition and what he stated Gongaware was aware of.

Shelley Webster, grief has no protocol and there are plenty of ways to express it. The same family member who penned a book also reclaimed many of Michael’s items through auctions and have given those items to his children.

Dr Finkelstein was a Dr on the Dangerous tour, AEG always claimed they knew about his 1993 addiction. Being an addict in 1993 doesn't make you an addict in 2009.
I may be wrong but I doubt all of that came from Finkelstein. He is an addiction specialist, I don't think he would say that. If he did it was probably taken out of context by CNN.

 

[Tygger]

Shelley Webster, we will find out during the trial what Dr. Finkelstein did and what he shared with Gongaware. We will also find out what other tour doctors have shared with Gongaware during the Dangerous and History tours.

I am speaking of Latoya who did purchase Michael’s items at auctions and gave them to the children.

I will agree to disagree regarding the actions and comments of family members that may or may not have been triggered by grief. We have no follow up evidence to say if a member felt remorse, pride, or any emotion after these public actions and comments.

 

[shelly_webster]

Shelley Webster, we will find out during the trial what Dr. Finkelstein did and what he shared with Gongaware. We will also find out what other tour doctors have shared with Gongaware during the Dangerous and History tours.

I am speaking of Latoya who did purchase Michael’s items at auctions and gave them to the children.

I will agree to disagree regarding the actions and comments of family members that may or may not have been triggered by grief. We have no follow up evidence to say if a member felt remorse, pride, or any emotion after these public actions and comments.

Rebbie Jackson sold things she find at MJ's house and Latoya sold stories to the tabloids about who was the real father of MJ's kids.

 

[AliCat]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

It's like it's May 15, 2009, at the Beverly Hills Hotel and now Katherine Jackson gets her day in Court, just because Michael said No to the likes of Leonard Rowe. Leonard Rowe had a sketchy past and Joe Jackson should be ashamed of himself and Katherine too for thinking this was a sound business decision for her son, Michael Jackson, to have someone like Leonard Rowe representing Michael Jackson in the capacity of either Business Manager or Concert Promoter.

AEG Live advanced Michael more than thirty millions of dollars because they believed in Michael Jackson's Vision and I applaud AEG Live for believing in Michael and giving him the chance of a lifetime!

 

[Autumn II]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I do respect the views of others, as long as those views are not "absolutist" or aggressively stated as the ONLY viewpoint. Personally, I lost respect for Katherine when I read the Howard Mann contract. That contract was FACT, in that it really happened, and there have never been any apologies for it, or even, "oops, maybe I shouldn't have involved my grandchildren in that?" My view (and that of others) did not drop out of thin-air, but has evolved over time, given her choices.

My, admittedly low, opinion of K.J.'s choices regarding the children, does not automatically mean a positive view of AEG. There remain unanswered questions, that I doubt this trial will answer, given its narrow focus.

I'll say THIS, though. I don't really like the use of the phrase "conspiracy-theorist" (i.e. such as. . . an alien craft stashed at Roswell, New Mexico, CIA plot for 9/11, and so on? Uhm, nope?) as a blanket statement. I HAVE researched the events surrounding Michael's death, extensively, and . . I AM a researcher. After four years, what I have discovered is. . . not enough information, or fact, to make a definitive judgment. And I think that is where that will remain. Among those unanswered questions, that, unfortunately, will not come out at the AEG trial . . . . . the most significant is.. Tohme. I see he is NOT called as a witness, nor in the Murray trial. Yet he WAS the one who negotiated the AEG contract, and was present in Michael's life when that was done. What we DO know (that may forever be unanswered) is. . . he LIES. IMHO. He presented himself to Michael, and others, as a medical doctor, when there was no evidence of that. He used only one attorney to vet the AEG contract for Michael, when that is simply NOT done (i.e. no independent counsel for Michael). He presented himself as "ambassador for Senegal," when that was not true, and the Senegalese government had never heard of him. He "had" millions of Michael's money, in CASH, in his house and only fessed up when an audit by the executors seemed inevitable. He is good buds with Barrack, and represented BOTH Colony Capital, AND Michael in the N/L deal. So, in terms of the AEG/K.J. trial, I don't expect much, at all, in the way of NEW information. Just further throwing Michael under-the-bus, and it's deplorable, really. Nuff said.

 

[AliCat]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Thome Thome was a neighbor of Janet Jackson and that's how Jermaine Jackson met Thome Thome. Jermaine Jackson then introduced Thome Thome to Michael Jackson.

Besides, Frank Dileo was brought back into the picture because of the scheduling of the 02 Arena Shows, he knew how to schedule the dates to suit Michael.