[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[ivy]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
More motions heard this morning. First was regarding the sealing orders. Nothing resolved so far. Judge thinking about it.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Plaintiffs asked judge to allow them to use Debbie Rowe's deposition taken in the Lloyd's of London case. Nobody objected.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Then attorneys resumed discussions on what they think should be allowed or not. Plaintiff & defense disagree on MJ's loss of future income

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Plaintiffs want to have an expert testifies as to MJ'a worth and loss of income. Defense says their expert grossly inflated the numbers

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 9m
Afternoon session of motions was more of the same. Plaintiffs tried to exclude defense's expert testimony on loss of income

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 8m
Plaintiffs said defendant expert testimony will say MJ was worth too little, so they wanted that excluded. Judge to rule by Monday morning

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 7m
Judge is giving each side two hours and a half for their opening. First witness not expected until Tuesday.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 7m
No session tomorrow, since all the motions were heard today. All sides taking the day to prep for opening on Monday.

 

[Bubs]

No news about Michael's medical records?



Roger's latest :bugeyed

Exclusive: Jackson Family Met in Secret To Discuss Possible Windfall from AEG Trial

04/25/13 5:03pmRoger Friedman0

Oh, the Jacksons. Their game has not changed. I am told by an insider that while Paris and Prince were at school back on April 18th, their grandmother was summoned to a family meeting in Beverly Hills. According to sources, Mrs. Jackson went to daughter Janet’s house where she was met by Jermaine, Randy, Rebbie, Janet and several other family members.
The topic of this 1pm pow-wow: how to divvy up the billions the Jacksons expect to make reap from the wrongful death suit against AEG Live. “Jermaine is already talking about how he’s getting a new Ferrari and a Bentley,” says a source.
And strangely enough: LaToya Jackson wasn’t there. No one told her about the meeting.
It was only ten months ago that the same Jacksons– Randy, Jermaine, Janet and Rebbie– “kidnapped” Mrs Jackson to Arizona, hoping to get access to her money from Michael Jackson’s estate.
The 1 pm meeting, it’s believed, was designed to take place while Prince and Paris were in school. According to my sources, Michael Jackson’s kids do not know this meeting took place. This might be of note to Prince, especially, who has lately been listening to Jermaine and Randy, according to insiders.
The AEG case is going to hinge on whether the Jackson lawyers can prove AEG knew Michael was ill, and somehow encouraged Dr. Conrad Murray to ignore the facts. It’s also going to depend on how much Murray reported to AEG at all. This may prove difficult since Murray was never paid, and was “hired” by Michael. The AEG side is going to say Michael insisted on Murray, and they simply acquiesced.
In any case, the Jacksons shouldn’t be buying anything expensive before a verdict is reached.

 

[marebear]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

They make me sick. I think it's shameful that Michael is used by his family in this way. I think it's shameful that a mother would let her lawyer call her son an addict when she never saw any addiction with her own two eyes. It's wrong and I don't like it at all.

 

[ivy]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

They can't claim "AEG should have known" without claiming MJ was an addict.

Think logically. If MJ wasn't an addict, there was nothing for AEG to know.

 

[scorpion]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I know. Some people - and I don't mean you or anyone on this board- have been in denial. I just pointed that out.



Don't mix up AEG's defense. They will argue that they didn't know MJ had a problem. The only thing they knew was 93 addiction and now he didn't tell them anything and even lied to them when asked. AEG will state that they found about MJ's "addiction" after his death and again paint him as an addict who would have done anything to get the drugs - with or without them. That's the way they will put the blame on Michael


------------------------------------------------------------

And for everyone's info

Alan Duke ?@AlanDukeCNN 14h
@Pearljr AEG lawyer didn't say MJ is not dead, just that it's an element of the case Jackson lawyers must prove. AEG not giving an inch.

Did I miss Pearl saying AEG lawyer said MJ is not dead? Where did she say it? On twitter? Sorry, I don't get meaning of next sentence: "Jackson lawyers must prove" what? that Michael is dead?

Or I misunderstand something?

 

[scorpion]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

How do you know Murray monitored MJ other days?

From his own testimony:

"I have always been next to MJ. that day too, I left him for 3 min went to bathroom.............."

But investigation revealed his phone calls which proves he was lying. Why he would go away for 45 min chatting on the phone? Because he was irresponsible doctor? Come on! Because he had to leave MJ to die.
When doctor neglects, he admits and feels sorry. This son of gun, instead, was trying to justify himself and make Michael responsible for his own death. Of course, the plan is that fall guy Murrey to conceal assasination of VIP should show some sign of defense against involuntarily manslaughter as natural procedure in order for prosecutor to focus on proving that and not murder.

to me another option is Miachel is alive. So, it is either MJ is alive or he was killed. There is no accidental death because of doctor. I won't believe this BS.Same thing family was telling at the beginning, they all were saying MJ was killed, " we know who did it, and everythingn will come out". Recall Joe interview with Larry King , Jermain, La Toya, others. What I don't understand is why they are now silent and move on with only wrongful death case. Maybe murder will be reveal during this trial?

 

[marebear]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I can understand but when his own mother said time and time again she saw nothing wrong with him it bothers me to see this. All I see is his family throwing Michael under the bus and saying whatever they have to say for money.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Besides, KJ is the elderly 82 year old grieving mother. There is a built in sympathy factor for her. I can't see any attorney badgering her, which they'd HAVE to do for her to be consistent on any matter.

A good lawyer can show up her inconsistencies without badgering her. Like, saying in a clam voice, "you said on June 9th XYZ, and now you say QRS, which is the correct answer." If he does this to her sufficient number of times, they jury will get the picture. Good lawyers learn how to cross-examine different types of people.

^^Notice that the lawyer said this case is about 'michael's medical condition.' I guess people better take a deeper breath for what is to come.

 

[helena1247]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I can't believe what I see here. Michael Jackson's "fans" are advising AEG on how to form their strategy to win from his mother?

Do you understand what you are doing here at all?

P.S. From the time I have to wait for my other comments to be posted I see that only detractors of Katherine Jackson are welcome here. The more dirt you post about Katherine the more priority you are given. God forbid say a thing or two about the AEG monster. You are immediately taken under control here.

What a nice place it is.

 

[helena1247]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

So you want Katherine to lose to the company that did Michael in? And why do you think that she is doing it only for money? And why not for money too if AEG made hundreds of millions by driving her son to his death? Why not talk about AEG's greediness instead?

First they drove him into a terribly stressed out state so that he completely lost sleep, humiliated him beyond measure, insulted him in front of everyone, took advantage of him as the few bold witnesses testified and finally drove him into his grave and now you are applauding this company and hope that they win from his mother?

 

[Petrarose]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I wonder who the first witness will be on Tuesday?

 

[helena1247]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

they jury will get the picture.

What picture should the jury get?

 

[Tygger]

I have read the posts regarding Michael’s mother and inconsistencies. She did not meet the doctor until after her son passed. She was not aware her son used this substance to sleep until after he passed. Any mother would be reluctant to accept her son having any abuse issues and others would be reluctant to discuss it with her. She does not have to see the act with her own eyes to be aware. This is quite normal and is the case in many families.

I am unsure how these are inconsistencies?

There is nothing that has been or will be said in this trial that should have or will cause Michael’s mother, his children, his family, or his fans to be ashamed of him.

Don't mix up AEG's defense. They will argue that they didn't know MJ had a problem. The only thing they knew was 93 addiction and now he didn't tell them anything and even lied to them when asked. AEG will state that they found about MJ's "addiction" after his death and again paint him as an addict who would have done anything to get the drugs - with or without them. That's the way they will put the blame on Michael

Ivy, correct. I truly wanted to see and hear this civil trial with my own eyes and ears. The CNN/HLN feed was crucial in the criminal trial. I want to understand how the defendants can explain they were not aware after Dr. Stuart Finkelstein’s deposition. I hope the contract between AEG and Michael will be discussed in depth as well. Any information and analysis you can give during the trial will be appreciated!

Scorpion, the doctor said in his documentary he developed a routine somewhat over time. I believe that routine did not included monitoring Michael so I was very disappointed with the manslaughter charge. The family wanted the stronger charge as well but, the State pursued the lesser charge. The family cannot retry the case.

 

[qbee]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I can't believe what I see here. Michael Jackson's "fans" are advising AEG on how to form their strategy to win from his mother?

Do you understand what you are doing here at all?

P.S. From the time I have to wait for my other comments to be posted I see that only detractors of Katherine Jackson are welcome here. The more dirt you post about Katherine the more priority you are given. God forbid say a thing or two about the AEG monster. You are immediately taken under control here.

What a nice place it is.

It is a nice place Helen Normally we would address this by PM and not allow this post of personal insults on the members or board to be posted. Becuase that is against the rules of MJJC. . But being you seem to feel we are censoring you for no reason I will address it here in hope we can come to an agreement. You are new here so I will explain to you how this works. Your posts are not being deleted, but they have to be manually approved until you reach 10 posts "proud member status" .. please note there is a time zone difference and be patient. You are certainly allowed to post your views and thoughts about this topic. but what is not allowed on MJJC is to personally attack members for their views. I hope you understand that now, because any further posts of this nature will be deleted as would be any personal attacks on you for your view of this trial and topic.

Please note not all fans agree that the Jacksons have Michael's best interest at heart or that AEG is responsible. But there are fans here that do think AEG is responsible in some way. If you read through this thread and other thread here you may see why they hold those views. Please note We give all fans a voice here to attack and discuss this topic however they see it... as long as they don't attack one another for holding a different opinion. You are more then welcome to post in that vein and discuss your opinions and thoughts and debate this topic as long as you don't insult or attack this board and members who may hold a different view that you. There are some members here like myself who don't support either the Jackson's or AEG in this trial, feeling that MJ will not get justice either way. He is thrown under the bus .. no matter what. Your opinion is just as as valid as mine or as anyones as far as opinions go here.

I understand your confusion being you may not know or understand the reason some fans feel as they do. I hope they can respectfully explain and even if you don't agree one way or the other, that's fine too. All our members here love and support Michael Jackson no matter what view they hold on this trial or their views about his family. One does not have to support everything the Jackson family does in order to support and love Michael. So Please keep that in mind. Now that I've explained that, welcome to board and to this discussion.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

i think they will to an extent going by the verdict form and their motions. how far they go only time will tell.

re ivy saying the family have to call mj an addict to be able to accuse aeg. imo they are going to the extreme. making him look like an alcoholic etc etc. thats very different to saying mj was an insomniac and took diprivan. u should have known. the lawyers with no negative qualms ftom the family because no doubt the lawyers have said if u wanba win this is what we have to do

But its stupid though. AEG's strategy should be to go after her and her real motivations for filing this lawsuit. I'm telling you, juries don't like to see dead victims put on trial, even Michael. I doubt they'd also be thrilled that a family is trying to use a dead member to get this money. If AEG pushed this angle, I think they'd have some jurors ruling in their favor.

 

[LastTear]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

So you want Katherine to lose to the company that did Michael in? And why do you think that she is doing it only for money? And why not for money too if AEG made hundreds of millions by driving her son to his death? Why not talk about AEG's greediness instead?

First they drove him into a terribly stressed out state so that he completely lost sleep, humiliated him beyond measure, insulted him in front of everyone, took advantage of him as the few bold witnesses testified and finally drove him into his grave and now you are applauding this company and hope that they win from his mother?

No, I believe Conrad Murray did Michael in, I believe that Conrad Murray should pay for the rest of his life for his personal negligence that took Michael from us, but instead he will be free shortly and can profit from selling stories about Michael and enjoy life with his children.

I do not believe AEG are great guys, they are a business end of story. These people who have these stories to tell can tell their stories anyway and embarrass AEG, you need to remember that the only charge here is if AEG hired Murray negligently and not if AEG caused his death, the Judge found there was no case to answer on that.

Do you believe what Katherine's side are saying? That AEG hired an addicted man (Michael) to do a series of concerts and hired a doctor to feed him whatever drugs took his fancy?

Michael has had sleep issues for years, I do believe he wanted these concerts but I think he was stressed about getting back on that stage after so long and after everything he went through in '05.

 

[LastTear]

I have read the posts regarding Michael’s mother and inconsistencies. She did not meet the doctor until after her son passed. She was not aware her son used this substance to sleep until after he passed. Any mother would be reluctant to accept her son having any abuse issues and others would be reluctant to discuss it with her. She does not have to see the act with her own eyes to be aware. This is quite normal and is the case in many families.

I am unsure how these are inconsistencies?

There is nothing that has been or will be said in this trial that should have or will cause Michael’s mother, his children, his family, or his fans to be ashamed of him.



Ivy, correct. I truly wanted to see and hear this civil trial with my own eyes and ears. The CNN/HLN feed was crucial in the criminal trial. I want to understand how the defendants can explain they were not aware after Dr. Stuart Finkelstein’s deposition. I hope the contract between AEG and Michael will be discussed in depth as well. Any information and analysis you can give during the trial will be appreciated!

Scorpion, the doctor said in his documentary he developed a routine somewhat over time. I believe that routine did not included monitoring Michael so I was very disappointed with the manslaughter charge. The family wanted the stronger charge as well but, the State pursued the lesser charge. The family cannot retry the case.

I know you post was regarding inconsistencies but can I just say if Michael's own Mother did not know of the drug Murray was using to put Michael to 'sleep' (and given that KJ toured with Michael in the past) then how on earth could AEG know?

And you are right, none of us will be ashamed of Michael, however, we have to witness him being dragged through all the media and he can't defend himself.

 

[helena1247]

You are certainly allowed to post your views and thoughts about this topic. but what is not allowed on MJJC is to personally attack members for their views. I hope you understand that now, because any further posts of this nature will be deleted as would be any personal attacks on you for your view of this trial and topic.

Please note not all fans agree that the Jacksons have Michael's best interest at heart or that AEG is responsible. But there are fans here that do think AEG is responsible in some way. ..You are more then welcome to post in that vein and discuss your opinions and thoughts and debate this topic as long as you don't insult or attack this board and members who may hold a different view that you. Now that I've explained that, welcome to boards and to this discussion.

Thank you for the reply. I am afraid that your concern about the danger of my personal attacks against anyone here is over-exaggerated - I never attack people but dispute ideas only, hoping that one day people realize the mistakes I feel they are making.

I did have the impression that the board was censoring me as my first comment appeared almost instantly but the release of the next had to wait for too long. Sorry if this was a mistake and you had objective reasons like the time difference, etc. for holding the comment in wait. You will probably understand how frustrating it is to wait for hours for each reply to be posted, especially if after the long waiting you are thrown out and have to log in again.

As to the Jacksons I am fully aware that they are human too and are not without fault, but in this time of terrible strain and trouble the amount of hate thrown at Michael’s mother and family is simply baffling. If you ask me no amount of money can compensate for what AEG did to Michael Jackson and Jermaine is right when he says there can be no price tag for Michael’s life. In the circumstances it isn’t even the matter of how much Katherine gets (if she does) – it is solely the matter of how much AEG loses.

Their greed drove Michael to his death, so let the money they acquired through it be their own ruin now.

What totally amazes me is that a huge number of people here prefer to side with the company which directly contributed to Michael’s death - by driving him into a terrible stress and depriving him of his sleep. ONE person is even advising AEG on how to win their case against Michael’s mother and children.

It is not Katherine’s fault that her lawsuit against AEG was reduced to one (Murray’s) point only and that the case itself was stripped of its most substantial claims. The AEG lion’s share of responsibility has been left outside the limits of this trial, but if this is how it works all of us should make the best of the little we have now.

AEG should answer for what they did to Michael, at least in SOME way. If it is money, let it be.

The reason why Michael stopped sleeping was the inhuman amount of stress inflicted on him by this company, the fraudulent way they forced him into 50 concerts and the impossible regimen of performing every other day they arranged for him behind his back.

Michael did not sleep due to constant insults he sustained from AEG, their total disregard for his views and decisions, their irresponsible demands and even threats to pull the plug if he missed the rehearsals. They did not even have the right to demand anything of the kind as his sole duty to them was to do a first class SHOW (and not a rehearsal). This is what their own contract says about it.

Michael knew the gradual way to build up his strength and skills, and it was solely his right to decide whether to perform at a general rehearsal or not. He probably wanted everyone to see him only when he reached his peak form and this I can perfectly understand – he was simply shy to show himself to others at a preliminary stage. However behind the scenes, at his home and in separate studios he was rehearsing “his ass off” as the witnesses said.

Just think that it was due to Michael’s constant fear to miss those damned rehearsals that he was unable to sleep and that it was AEG that was driving him into that state. This stress alone was the reason for Michael’s condition which brought about his death.

If there had been no stress due to AEG’s pressure there would have been no need for propofol, and if there had been no propofol he would be alive now.

As to the media and what they will say - well, the media will always say things. All past experience has shown that they do not even require a reason for it. What matters is what the fans of Michael Jackson say and if this time they side not with Katherine but with AEG, I feel like it will the worst Michael Jackson's betrayal ever.

P.S. I have sent two more answers here in addition to this one. The short one was added but the long one is still waiting. It is THREE HOURS now that my longer comment has been awaiting moderation. People are answering me and awaiting my reply, so what am I supposed to do?

 

[mj_brainiac]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I don't want this case to get dirty

Hopefully it won't drag

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

It got dirty along time ago

 

[helena1247]

No, I believe Conrad Murray did Michael in, I believe that Conrad Murray should pay for the rest of his life for his personal negligence that took Michael from us, but instead he will be free shortly and can profit from selling stories about Michael and enjoy life with his children.

I also believe that Murray was so grossly negligent that he should pay for it for the rest of his life. But I also know that AEG put their hand to it too. The night Michael died Murray was following AEG’s instructions to take care of Michael’s insurance papers which was an urgency as they were required for June 26th when according to sources in Lloyds the next medical examination was to be carried out (!).

That night following Kathy Jorrie’s (AEG’s lawyer) request Murray was taking care of Michael’s insurance papers instead of taking care of his patient. He did not say NO to her as under his contract with AEG he was to “perform the services reasonably requested of him by the PRODUCER” (and not Michael Jackson). This alone explains in whose service he was and whose business he was attending to while his patient was dying.

I do not believe AEG are great guys, they are a business end of story. These people who have these stories to tell can tell their stories anyway and embarrass AEG, you need to remember that the only charge here is if AEG hired Murray negligently and not if AEG caused his death, the Judge found there was no case to answer on that.

AEG is not simply “business”. They are the example of infinite greed, fraudulent ways and insolence ruining people’s lives and stripping them of the last they have. Their contract is a complete outrage and is a total disgrace to business as a type of activity as a whole.

AEG is constantly lying to us about the number of shows though this number has a direct bearing on what Murray was doing the night Michael died. The original number of shows was only 10 and the original Lloyd’s insurance was for 10 dates too. However when AEG increased the number of shows to 30 and then 50 (barely asking for Michael’s consent) they had a big problem with insuring the rest. Lloyds agreed to insure up to 30 but on condition AEG provided Michael’s medical records and Michael underwent the second test.

It is important to understand that without the increase in the number there would have been no need for the second test at all and Murray would not have spent half the night corresponding with the insurers and leaving the side of his patient.

By NO means do I justify Murray’s behavior (nothing should have distracted him for his job!) but objectively speaking he let Michael die because he was largely going on AEG’s errands that night.

Do you believe what Katherine's side are saying? That AEG hired an addicted man (Michael) to do a series of concerts and hired a doctor to feed him whatever drugs took his fancy?

As to Katherine’s suit I am perfectly aware that she is right. However I cannot answer for her lawyers especially from the scarce information available to us now. Generally I am not impressed by them very much and think there might have been better ways to handle the case. On the other hand AEG is so ruthless a machine that few lawyers will probably be able to stand up to them. This is exactly the reason why Katherine Jackson needs all the help Michael’s supporters can give her.

Michael has had sleep issues for years, I do believe he wanted these concerts but I think he was stressed about getting back on that stage after so long and after everything he went through in '05.

This was the cause for the initial stress only which he effectively overcame when the tickets for the first 10 shows were sold. It gave him a tremendous boost in spirits and a great impetus for further work. Ever since then he was dedicated to do the shows – both for his fans, and his children whom he could never let down and this is why he was training really hard.

Most of AEG’s stories about him not rehearsing well enough are fiction. Michael had been training at least since April and the owner of the Burbanks Central Staging even said that Michael had gone through all its studios since March (to May 29th when they moved to the Forum).

Michael’s extreme stress was not so much due to the necessity to do the shows - it was due to their number and their regimen. It started when he realized the number of dates was 50 and the terrible regimen of the shows arranged by AEG and Tohme behind his back followed the show/day-off/show/day-off pattern.

The 50 shows were not spread evenly in time but consisted of two marathons with only one day between the shows and several days breaks in the middle. On the average it was 3,5 dates a week while Michael wanted 2 at the most. This schedule was impossible for a man with sleep problems.

Everyone knew of Michael’s sleep problems and AEG surely did too. Even if they did not read about it in newspapers like all the rest of us did Gongaware must have known about it from his prior experience with Michael, so AEG’s primary concern and duty was to set the dates with time enough for Michael to recuperate between the shows.

However they INTENTIONALLY disregarded this factor though Michael made special requests of it. This is when and how Michael’s huge stress started.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

This was got dirty the day it was filed. And let me just say this people who say AEG were jerks to Michael lets not forget something, Michael ran a company you don't think he was not a jerk to people at some point?

 

[helena1247]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

This was got dirty the day it was filed. And let me just say this people who say AEG were jerks to Michael lets not forget something, Michael ran a company you don't think he was not a jerk to people at some point?

Michael's wasn't greedy and wasn't mean. And AEG is both.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

A good lawyer can show up her inconsistencies without badgering her. Like, saying in a clam voice, "you said on June 9th XYZ, and now you say QRS, which is the correct answer." If he does this to her sufficient number of times, they jury will get the picture. Good lawyers learn how to cross-examine different types of people.

^^Notice that the lawyer said this case is about 'michael's medical condition.' I guess people better take a deeper breath for what is to come.

I'd love for her inconsistencies to be revealed, but I don't know if AEG lawyers are capable of doing it so that a jury wouldn't see them as bullies. They got accused of pressing Prince too hard in just the desposition. Of course, KJ's attorneys were probably lying about that, but still, I can imagine 82 year old Katherine limping up to that witness stand, being asked a question repeatedly, getting quiet, and then her eyes welling up, and a jury being affected by all that. Katherine definitely has a demeanor that can soften people.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

^^I don't want to be offensive, but I think that by now we are all used to seeing that when there is a hot topic involving the family vs Michael/family vs Michael's children, there will be comments telling some fans about what they should and should not say about the family. I am used to it now. The most recent occurrence of this was in the Muarry trial & during granny napping. This case is no different & soon we will have more posters telling us how bad we are behaving. There is nothing wrong with this, since I have noticed that after the particular topic/trial is over, the posters disappear, and the rest of us Bad fans are left doing our usual Michaeling.

Gerry Yes but remember with Prince it was not a jury that said that but the family lawyers trying to push an agenda, and we found out there was a tape of the deposition. Believe me I have seen some good lawyers work on elderly grannies. They talk very softly & complementary to them. Look how easy Oprah worked Katherine during the interview & you can see that Katherine will be easy to trip up. Katherine is not like the granny that Walgren had to cross-examine. Notice he was gentle with her and did not press her, because she is opinionated & a tough cookie. She would have challenged him on the stand, so he let her speak & show that Muarry was an "encyclopedia" which told the jury that Muarry had some intelligence & should have known the right way of doing things. If Putnam has sense he will be able to gauge the type of witness Katherine will be from her direct testimony and then come up with a strategy to question her.

I get what you are saying about her limping and tears, but Putnam's tone will be the key. If his tone is right the jury will question why this woman who brought this case is only crying and not answering these simple pertinent questions. He may not even have to ask her the same thing over & over because that would be badgering the witness.

I remember TMez said he showed the type of person Gavin was, so he could go hard after a child on the witness stand, and it worked. The jury did not feel that this adult was badgering a child, so all Putnam has to do is his homework.

I wish AEG will ask Katherine how soon after the death she thought AEG was responsible; who told her AEG was responsible; did she come up with this claim on her own. She might let slip that Randy told her to do it.

 

[ivy]

Some corrections

The night Michael died Murray was following AEG’s instructions to take care of Michael’s insurance papers which was an urgency as they were required for June 26th when according to sources in Lloyds the next medical examination was to be carried out (!).

It is important to understand that without the increase in the number there would have been no need for the second test at all and Murray would not have spent half the night corresponding with the insurers and leaving the side of his patient.

Next medical test was July 6th in London. And the increase or no increase the number of the shows the second medical examination was needed "the insurers have been firm from the very beginning of the coverage that they will only give illness cover after completion of a further medical and also review MJ doing a rehearsal"

Plus didn't Murray email insurance broker and said that Michael did not give authorization to him to release his medical records? So he wasn't working on any medical information. Also how do you explain Murray calling his 3 girlfriends? That got nothing to do with AEG or Lloyds.

I'm also curious what is your source that Lloyds insurance was increased from 10 shows to 30 shows? Every court document I have seen at Lloyds lawsuit has said the insurance policy was for first 30 shows and for $17.5 Million.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually let me post the second medical information as well.

June 22 email from insurance firm to broker

June 24 email from insurance firm to broker

June 24 email from broker to AEG and Murray

then Paul Gongaware responds it has to be done at MJ's house, The broker responds back to him at the insurance firm won't accept that and it has to be at the doctors office. the last email is sent from the broker to AEG / Murray on midnight of June 24 / June 25 asking them confirm the July 6 afternoon for the second medical.

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and

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Let me give you a little summary of the policy (and that was one hard and boring read)

- Insurance policy is called " non appearance and cancellation insurance"
- The coverage was to start in April 2009 and go on until January 2010.
- Michael was insured for $17.5 million.
- It states that 30 shows in O2 was expected to bring $43M income , $1.4M per show and insurer would be off risk after the completion of 13 shows.
- Income from the shows reduced the sum insured.
- It again states that losses are restricted to accident only until the insurers see the medical report from London and attend rehearsals.
- It says that meet and greets aren't allowed and insurer has to see and agree to any promotional work in advance.
- The policy doesn't cover SARS, pneumonia, avian flu, child diseases (such as mumps , measles etc) as well as terrorism, biological and chemical weapons.
- Premium was $437,500 with additional US TRIA (Terrorism Risk Insurance Act) of $1,750,000. Later it's stated that TRIA wasn't bought.
- Full policy was to cover death, accident, illness, unavoidable travel delay, venue damage, adverse weather and national mourning.

- Insurers are notified of concert date moving, they agree to this changes.
- Effective of June 10, insurer agrees to include 7 band members, 4 vocalists and 12 dancers as insured people as well.
- It's stated that AEG rented a house in Chislehurst, Kent from July 2009 to June 2010. The travel from the house to venue will be between 20 minutes to 1 hour.
- It's stated that Michael would travel with 3 cars (4 if his children attend) to and from the venue. They list that 2-3 security guards, his make-up artist and Dr. Conrad Murray would be travelling with him.
- It states that Michael's UK arrival date was July 4th 2009 and the first UK rehearsal was July 8th, 2009.
- Insurers are also sent the plans for the stage and the policy effective June 18 extended to include "cover losses from resulting from problems with the stage,staging or special effects". "Swinging arm" is explicitly mentioned. There are handwritten notes of "how high does the arm go?" , "what % of the show will the arm be used in?", " what effect would there be on the show if the arm didn't work?"

 

[gerryevans]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Michael's wasn't greedy and wasn't mean. And AEG is both.

You're absolutely right. But I bet if we got a room full of people together, you'd find many of them could give you horror stories about the mean, greedy, unfair, impossible people they work with, and the unbelievable stress they have to work under.

MJ had been under extreme stress before. We all witnessed the devastating effects that trial had on him, but he survived that trial. He survived the culmination of years of meanness and stress by the press. What he didn't survive was the incredible negligence of the doctor he requested for his comeback tour.

 

[ivy]

I have read the posts regarding Michael’s mother and inconsistencies. She did not meet the doctor until after her son passed. She was not aware her son used this substance to sleep until after he passed. Any mother would be reluctant to accept her son having any abuse issues and others would be reluctant to discuss it with her. She does not have to see the act with her own eyes to be aware. This is quite normal and is the case in many families.

I am unsure how these are inconsistencies?

I don't think that's an inconsistencies but those are definitely helping AEG. How can Jacksons argue "AEG should have known" when themselves say "I didn't know"?

Thank you for the reply.

If I may.

First of all everyone will have a different approach to civil lawsuits and what is considered "justice". That's the exact same reason why the jury questionnaire had questions such as "do you hold the opinion that because money can't bring a person back, wrongful death lawsuits serve no purpose?"

That's the reality. Experience has shown lawyers that not everyone will see a wrongful death lawsuit and/or monetary judgments as "justice". So that's the first issue here. Not everyone will share your opinion of this lawsuit to start with.

Secondly I don't think we are required to side with Jacksons just because they are Jacksons. There's also no rule that says everyone should be against AEG - especially before the trial.

In 2005 MJ fans kept saying "innocent until proven guilty" and we were very angry with how the media portrayed Michael. If we aren't hypocrites that apply a certain set of rules to Michael but not the others, there shouldn't be any problems with wanting to see and hear the evidence and later on make up our minds.

Finally there are some things that I disagree- on a personal opinion basis.

If there had been no stress due to AEG’s pressure there would have been no need for propofol, and if there had been no propofol he would be alive now.

this is nothing more than a pure speculation. Michael's sleep problems date back to the 80s. We also have several people that pointed out a propofol history dating back to decades. Frank Cascio saying Michael was given propofol during invincible recordings, Ratner is alleged to give Michael propofol during History tour, receiving propofol during minor operations and so on. Even Murray alleged that Michael knew Propofol really well , that other doctors including ones in Germany gave that to him. All of these will be examined during the trial.

So my question is if Michael's propofol history over the decades are proven, how can you say "it's because of AEG's stress"? What about the other times he took Propofol? Are you going to blame other parties as well such as "it was due to stress from Marcel Avram or because of Sony"? How do you explain him asking for Propofol in Vegas during dental procedures even before he signed a contract with AEG? What was causing him stress at that time?

So see , it's not as black and white you make it sound like.

Also let me add that personally I feel like people are forgetting what Murray did. How he gave Michael propofol 6 weeks in such a setting and played with Michael's life. How he lied to everyone and how he was more concerned with protecting himself than calling 911 to help Michael.

so let me recap - from a personal standpoint

- not everyone will agree with a wrongful death lawsuit. Given especially the $40 Billion request this looks to me like it's more about money than justice.

- I prefer to listen to both sides and then determine their innocence / guilt. I don't believe in blindly blaming one side, that's a mentality of a lynch mob not a reasonable, logical and factual human being.

- I don't believe this case is as clear as black or white. There's a lot of gray involved. Michael's history with Propofol and what AEG knew or didn't know, would be important factors. I'm still looking answers in that regard.

- I personally do not see me as for or against anyone as I never expressed any opinion in that regard. Furthermore any sides win or lose will have no effect on me. In other words I don't care either way if Katherine gets $0 or if AEG pays her $40 billion.

Also please check my previous post - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...ne-s-lawsuit?p=3814367&viewfull=1#post3814367


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Edited to add : helena1247 - why your posts in moderation and how it could take time to approve them were explained to you. please post without referring to it anymore. any posts that talk about post moderation and waiting for moderation and such will be edited and/or deleted accordingly.

 

[LastTear]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

You're absolutely right. But I bet if we got a room full of people together, you'd find many of them could give you horror stories about the mean, greedy, unfair, impossible people they work with, and the unbelievable stress they have to work under.

MJ had been under extreme stress before. We all witnessed the devastating effects that trial had on him, but he survived that trial. He survived the culmination of years of meanness and stress by the press. What he didn't survive was the incredible negligence of the doctor he requested for his comeback tour.

Yes, and lets not forget that Michael wasn't exactly new to this business, he knew the deal, he knew that touring requires rehearsals. It is quite acceptable for AEG to require Michael to attend rehearsals, no matter how greedy or mean they may be it is not an unacceptable request.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Michael's wasn't greedy and wasn't mean. And AEG is both.

I asked if Michael could have been a jerk sometimes when it came to busness not if he were mean or greedy. And you want to talk about greedy forty billion dollars?