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Police raid Murray's Vegas house and office!

Interesting remark from a poster over at huffingtonpost:

As a physician, I have to say that looking at everything within the realm of public knowledge, the answer to all the questions in your first paragraph are not in favor of Dr. Murray.

The drug was NOT a viable choice for Michael Jackson's conditions. It is only given for medical procedures and surgery..IN A HOSPITAL. I am not saying that it is usually given in a hospital. I am saying that it is always given in a hospital.

The drug was NOT administered with proper supervision. There should be an anesthesiologist and an assistant or nurse at the bedside for every minute of the drug administration. The drug should be administered for the shortest period of time possible and an intubation kit should be available as well as all advanced life support.

To give this drug for insomnia in someone's home even once is incredibly negligent. To give it on a regular basis is unfathomable.

I am so glad that I am not Dr. Murray right now. He has no reasonable defense.
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Wow. No words for that. I mean that's all we've been saying here.. it just doesn't make any sense.. I don't know what that so called doctor was thinking.
 
L.J said:
Interesting remark from a poster over at huffingtonpost:
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indeed it was, scary how all of this is becoming a reality!


As a physician, I have to say that looking at everything within the realm of public knowledge, the answer to all the questions in your first paragraph are not in favor of Dr. Murray.

The drug was NOT a viable choice for Michael Jackson's conditions. It is only given for medical procedures and surgery..IN A HOSPITAL. I am not saying that it is usually given in a hospital. I am saying that it is always given in a hospital.

The drug was NOT administered with proper supervision. There should be an anesthesiologist and an assistant or nurse at the bedside for every minute of the drug administration. The drug should be administered for the shortest period of time possible and an intubation kit should be available as well as all advanced life support.

To give this drug for insomnia in someone's home even once is incredibly negligent. To give it on a regular basis is unfathomable.

I am so glad that I am not Dr. Murray right now. He has no reasonable defense.
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I wasn't sure which thread this fit best in but do want to post it. I have AWAYS respected the reporting that is done by the Christian Science Monitor. They do their research. I want to dilute everyone's junk food diet with a well written article with no 'made up facts' before we all become chronically ill. It has some interesting peices of info. One thing I was surprised by, is they did use the term addiction wrt the propofal (as someone else on the board expllained there are different types of addiction.) So here is the article they wrote today:


http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0729/p02s04-usgn.html

Authorities execute a search warrant at the Red Rock Canyon Country Club residence of Dr. Conrad Murray, Tuesday in Las Vegas, seeking documents as part of a manslaughter investigation into the singer's death.
Daniel Gluskoter/AP


Jackson probe focuses on powerful anesthetic
Police and drug enforcement officers raided the home of Jackson's doctor Tuesday. Reports say an injection of propofol may have contributed to the pop star's death.
By Michael B. Farrell | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the July 28, 2009 edition


San Francisco - The emerging role of the anesthetic propofol in the death of Michael Jackson is bringing new attention to a powerful drug that is normally used only in hospitals, and has until now received little scrutiny from federal drug authorities because of its relatively low addiction risk.

Local and federal drug authorities Tuesday searched the Las Vegas home and office of Jackson's personal physician, Conrad Murray, as part of manslaughter investigations into the pop star's death. They didn't specify what they were looking for but a law enforcement official told the Associated Press that police have theorized that a dose of propofol that Dr. Murray administered as a sleep aid contributed to Jackson's death.

After propofol, known by its commercial name Diprivan, was found in Mr. Jackson's home following his death, federal drug authorities said they may re-designate the drug as a scheduled substance – a move that would tighten controls on how it is used and distributed.

Propofol is injected as an anesthetic for both minor and major surgeries, but its usage needs to be monitored and it should always be given in a hospital setting, say experts. There have been only a few reported cases of abuse of the drug, mainly among anesthesiologists or medical professionals with access to the drug.

"To give this drug safely … they need to have certain monitors to watch that patient carefully," says Dr. David Kloth, an anesthesiologist and board member of the American Society of Interventional Pain Physicians (ASIPP).

The drug should never be used as a sleep aid, he says. "The fact that [Jackson] even asked for this drug would be a red flag that he has an addiction," says Dr. Kloth.

Patients on propofol can "have extremely variable responses to the drug and some patients can become completely anesthetized, including losing the ability to breathe," ASIPP said in a statement earlier this month.

Tuesday's search is the second time authorities have raided Murray's property. Last week, they searched his Houston office and storage unit. Murray is licensed to work in California, Nevada, and Texas and began working with Jackson in May to accompany him on his upcoming concert series in London.

The AP reported that Murray had admitted giving Jackson the anesthetic on the day of his death. He was with the pop star when he died and tried to resuscitate him.

Murray's lawyer said that the physician didn't "administer anything that should have killed Michael Jackson." Sources close to the investigation have also told the AP they are looking for other doctors who have given Jackson propofol.

Jackson reportedly used the drug as a sleep aid for the past two years.

Toxicology reports are expected to be released this week, and should shed more light on Jackson's death.

If it turns out that Murray did administer propofol to Jackson – and that was deemed a cause of death – he could face any number of penalties, says Kloth. Murray could lose his medical license or his ability to prescribe scheduled substances in addition to possible manslaughter charges.

"If this doctor put the IV in, he's going to be at least culpable," says Kloth.

But while propofol could be a cause of Jackson's death – the drug lowers heart rates and blood pressure – it could also be just one of many factors, especially if Jackson was taking other prescription medications at the same time.
 
i love how at the end they wanna say that he could still just be negligent if there's other drugs found in mj's system.

sorry but getting that drug, alone is a bit one for murray. then administering it is another no-no. couple that w/ teh fact he's not an anesth. he cannot get meds in cali, and he'snot allowed to admin. that med at all, he's s. out of luck
 
Soso Deaf said:
uh what most of y'all trying to remain OBJECTIVE fail to grasp is that MJ PAID THE ULTIMATE PRICE. yes he had some liability and fault, but he dead now so it goes to the next one. the one who broke the law, put another's life in danger, did something so careless and w/ little regard that his patient ended up dead

and someone supplied him w/ that. and someone else knew about it. and they did nothing. they're all involved.
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Agreed, and I wouldn't put it past Murray to roll over on at least Klein if he was involved. There was absolutely no reason for Mike to be put under for simple acne treatments wtf. And if Klein couldn't get his hands on Diprivan then someone else did and I hope they roll on his ass too.

and the reason I say I wouldn't put it past Murray is because he's SCARED shitless right now (if not he's got to be a cold hearted bastard) but since Klein is a well-known name now, he'd be the one to roll on (can't trust those beady eyes anyway). Klein looks like the type to take anybody down with him.
 
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hey guys do me a favor please. just let me know when there's pics of the doctor in hand cuffs. I'd appreciate that intensely
 
AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Why would Dr Murray tell the LAPD that he gave Michael Propopol and tell his lawyer he didn't? This just doesn't make sense. QUOTE]

His lawyer or Murray said he 'didn't give Michael anything that should have killed him' if I remember the wording correctly. And he specifically said Murray didn't give him demerol or oxycontin (I believe it was). He didn't say Murray didn't administer propofal.
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Also from Huffpost:

Propofol typically is used to render patients unconscious for surgery. The drug can depress breathing and lower heart rates and blood pressure.
Home use of propofol is virtually unheard of, and if Murray left Jackson's side he would have violated guidelines for the safe use of the drug drawn up by the American Society of Anesthesiologists.
Those rules say a physician "should be physically present throughout the sedation and remain immediately available until the patient is medically discharged from the post procedure recovery area."
In considering a manslaughter charge against a doctor, a patient's complicity in taking the risk could reduce the doctor's culpability, said Harland Braun, a prominent Los Angeles defense attorney who has represented doctors in cases involving administering of drugs.
If a doctor is aware of the risk, there might also be an issue of whether the patient knows that risk and decided to take it.
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Decent full article
 
Soso Deaf said:
HEARTBREAKHOTELMJJ if he's a cardiologist, he couldn't prescribe something out of the way of his practice. he'd need 'hint hint' another doctor to do it for him. or refer mj elsewhere to get it. he couldn't get propofol/diprivan. and y would a cardiologist prescribe xanax or say demerol or fentanyl? so it would look out of the ordinary.

he cannot prescribe meds in cali. that's where mj was living. he can only do it in lv or in tx
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okay - there are some misunderstandings going on here. Diprovan is NOT, I repeat, NOT a prescription drug. Therefore, Dr. Murray could purchase it. No prescription necessary. And I am not certain about whether or not he could prescribe at all, only that he could not prescribe controlled substances because he did not have a DEA number.

now, further, people are saying doctors are easy to buy if you have the name and money. Yes, for sure for controlled substances there are likely quite a few willing because there is not a huge risk for the payoff.

For Diprivan this is NOT true at all. The illegalities and risks involved for the provider should anything go wrong would make it not worth it for the majority of doctors - the risk of criminal prosecution is MUCH higher, so it would have been much more difficult for Michael to find a doctor to agree. Guess that's why he got a careless hack.
 
he would have no reason to purchase diprivan sinc ehe's not at a hospital treating a patient for wouldbe surgery. so how could he justify his purchase?
 
i cant believe he did this to Michael with no little care and thought about what might happen, how the hell did this guy become a doctor?!
 
Soso Deaf said:
diprivan is such a testy drug. u need to get it right, down to the cc's and rate of flow. that's y u have to be tubed and that's y u need to be on an ekg machine just in case the body cannot tolerate it. the ekg machine will alert the anesthesiologist and they'll slow the drip.

since mj wasn't on any machine, murray wouldn't know he was going into cardiac arrest. there's many signs that the body cannot tolerate something and since again, he wasn't being appropriately monitored, nor was there a de-fib machine on site, there was nothing murray could do.

if he left the room for two minuts and mj went into distress, he wouldn't have known.

this is negligence all around. the drip didn't stop, mj went into cardiac arrest and died and murray found him dead.

now WHEN did he do it? cuz if mj got that on routine, it's possible that staff knew not to bother him or go into his room. if murray found him sooner, had his staff remove stuff from storage, then 'find' mj and alert teh staff, it's totally murder. involuntary manslaughter will go to murder two b/c of the coverup and the attempt at obstructing justice
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ima quote myself from the IU part of the board. too much to re-type
 
BabeBeMine said:
The world is not perfect and there will always be ppl looking to make money. That's just the way it is. So if you have someone who desperately is looking to take a painkiller that's dangerous and will search and search for someone to give it to them, they will eventually find that crooked Doctor. Had Murray not given it to MJ he would probably be fired and MJ would search and search for a Doctor who would give it to him.
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Just to make clear becuase Im confused with some things you said
in this thread about diprivan and addiction_ you are stating pain killers
and addiction here when talking about Michael being administered Diprivan ..

you do know that diprivan is not a pain killer not a drug you get high with.
It is not a narcotic or pain killer or anti depressiont .
it is what hospitals use to put people under for minor surgery
its knocks you out puts you to sleep untill the IV drip is turned off.

Michael wanted Diprivan to sleep .. not get high
but I do understand what you say that if MJ wanted to take it he
would search untill he found someone willing to administer it to him
That doesnt make MJ a drug addict in this instance _
It makes him desperate for sleeep ..

I guess we could say he was addicted to sleep
or dependent on this medication to help him sleep
Im just sad and upset that he couldnt find a more
conventional safer way to do that _ :( I believe
he suffered from anxiety and maybe PTSD _ I had
the same problem _ you cant sleep _rest- and
you are in deep distress and its cause you to be
more anxious depressed and sleep deprived
you think please just somebody knock me out


Now MJ may have been dependent on pain killers or antidepressents
I dont know _ but thats another story .. I dont think they found any
excess pain killers or other drugs in Michaels sytem .. but its possible
Im waiting for the coronor report to see what they did find
 
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Soso Deaf said:
i love how at the end they wanna say that he could still just be negligent if there's other drugs found in mj's system.

sorry but getting that drug, alone is a bit one for murray. then administering it is another no-no. couple that w/ teh fact he's not an anesth. he cannot get meds in cali, and he'snot allowed to admin. that med at all, he's s. out of luck
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You mean the Christian Science article? I think they are just allowing other possibilties because they don't know. They did say other 'prescription' medication and I would guess that a big part of what is or has been looked at is if there were interactions.

They do say that if he put the IV in he is culpable. I think the article is balanced. They are just giving us what they know and not coloring it one way or the other.
 
I still can't grasp the fact that Murray was stupid enough to steal this anesthesia from the hospital and give it to Michael to 'help him sleep'. That's like... giving stitches to someone who has a paper cut. I don't even know what to compare it too.....that was dumb on his part. I hope he pays for what he did.
 
IRide4MJ4Ever said:
The issue I have is Lee said Michael called her 4 days before he died asking her from Diprivan but why would he need her to find a Dr. for him if Murray was already on staff and giving him the Dirprivan every night?
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Exactly.

And I hear the media talking about all these others doctors involved, but I don't see the cops raiding anyone but Murray. I think that Murray was desperate for money and doped Michael up to rob him and then when he tried to bring him back up it was too late. I don't usually listen to stuff LaToya says, but she may be onto something with her suitcase full of money story. If that doctor knew that money was there, he may have gotten desperate. Remember, he was in serious debt.
 
Soso Deaf said:
ima quote myself from the IU part of the board. too much to re-type
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I know what you are saying about monitoring and being ready to react if something went wrong. This was all just so incredibly irresponsible. Even if some interaction was involved it is for those instances where something goes wrong that you need a doctor and equipment. To assume that everything is going to go right is ... I can't even think of an appropriate term.

My anesthetist friend said its safe but has to be monitored and that is why it is never done outside of an operating or emergency room.

I feel I have to balance out others posts however because there are so many fans who seem to be certain that Murray deliberately killed Michael or didn't care. Even if he didn't care about Michael (and I think he did) he would have known the risk to himself if something went wrong. It seems he was unreasonably sure that nothing would go wrong.

A week and a half ago I ended up at an emergency clinic with my grandsons cat listening to good 20 minutes worth of medical information from a vet who was going to do a procedure for a fracture. In with more information than I ever before got from any doctor before in my life I got a description of how they would do a block so they could use minimum amounts of anesthesia. When I got the bill guess what the anesthesia the were limiting was.... yeah - propofol.
 
IRide4MJ4Ever said:
The issue I have is Lee said Michael called her 4 days before he died asking her from Diprivan but why would he need her to find a Dr. for him if Murray was already on staff and giving him the Dirprivan every night?
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This is not true. Lee did not say that.

God, I can't wait for the tox reports to come out and for all this raiding to lead to an actual arrest.
 
Soso Deaf said:
i love how at the end they wanna say that he could still just be negligent if there's other drugs found in mj's system.

sorry but getting that drug, alone is a bit one for murray. then administering it is another no-no. couple that w/ teh fact he's not an anesth. he cannot get meds in cali, and he'snot allowed to admin. that med at all, he's s. out of luck
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SOL, "sh!t out of luck"
 
The nurse said that Mike asked for Diprivan months ago but she didnt give it to him, she said his people called her 4 days before he passed because one side of his body was cold and the other was hot but she was in Florida so she told them that he needed to go to the hospital but i guess Mike never went.
 
Gyrl4MJ said:
I still can't grasp the fact that Murray was stupid enough to steal this anesthesia from the hospital and give it to Michael to 'help him sleep'. That's like... giving stitches to someone who has a paper cut. I don't even know what to compare it too.....that was dumb on his part. I hope he pays for what he did.
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He may not have stolen it. He's a doctor who had a practice in two states. He could have easily ordered it from a medical supplier. I found a place to buy it from on the internet. Ships from overseas. It's possible they're looking for the receipt or something showing he purchased diprivan. I'm glad they got those cellphones. Hopefully something valuable will turn up like who he was calling during the hours while Michael was dying...IF he was calling anyone at all.
 
AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Exactly.

And I hear the media talking about all these others doctors involved, but I don't see the cops raiding anyone but Murray. I think that Murray was desperate for money and doped Michael up to rob him and then when he tried to bring him back up it was too late. I don't usually listen to stuff LaToya says, but she may be onto something with her suitcase full of money story. If that doctor knew that money was there, he may have gotten desperate. Remember, he was in serious debt.
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The "Doctor" F***ed up...

I'm to the point were I'm a calm angry...no yelling, no throwing objects...its the bad type of anger

If IF it comes down to that Murry robbed Michael while drugging him and then tried to revive him but Michael died...i seriously think I will lose my mind, I may just go to jail...
 
Soso Deaf said:
he would have no reason to purchase diprivan sinc ehe's not at a hospital treating a patient for wouldbe surgery. so how could he justify his purchase?
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This is true, but there are his practices in other cities which could have been used for cover as a clinical setting. Which is likely the reason for all the raids and the storage facility.

Oh yeah, forgot to say, there are cardiology procedures which could require Diprivan, but the cardiologist would not be the one administering it, an anesthesiologist would, but the cardiologist could purchase - or it would be available for Dr. Murray to even steal pretty easily from a hospital where he had privileges.
 
eternitys_child said:
I feel I have to balance out others posts however because there are so many fans who seem to be certain that Murray deliberately killed Michael or didn't care. Even if he didn't care about Michael (and I think he did) he would have known the risk to himself if something went wrong. It seems he was unreasonably sure that nothing would go wrong.
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Even if he cared about Michael, the fact that he was utterly incompetent with his 'practice' makes him fair game to be criticized, IMO. He fucked up. BIG-TIME.
 
Giovanna said:
The nurse said that Mike asked for Diprivan months ago but she didnt give it to him, she said his people called her 4 days before he passed because one side of his body was cold and the other was hot but she was in Florida so she told them that he needed to go to the hospital but i guess Mike never went.
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What i dont get, why didnt she call for an ambulance to go to mikes house!!
I mean cmon , if someone is saying to you that they are not feeling well at all..why didnt she call for help immeaditly?
 
Giovanna said:
The nurse said that Mike asked for Diprivan months ago but she didnt give it to him, she said his people called her 4 days before he passed because one side of his body was cold and the other was hot but she was in Florida so she told them that he needed to go to the hospital but i guess Mike never went.
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Thanks for the accurate breakdown, Giovanna. :flowers:

And Murray was Michael's doctor while he was in Vegas. Murray's practice was in Vegas. Michael moved to Los Angeles just last year. I don't remember anyone saying Murray came to L.A. with him or was treating him while he was in L.A. Murray seemed to come back into the picture the past 3 months or less...at least as far as we know of him being in L.A. Who knows how often he and MJ saw each other when Michael travelled to Vegas (while he was still living in L.A.).
 
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