Phantom of the oprah 2 {Love Never Dies}

This one's for you:
shall we kill my thread?:thinking:
you wont be successful.:beee:
cos love never dies ..apparently.:bugeyed

Why are we snooty about musicals?
The cost is staggering, the queues off-putting, but here it is: I was curiously moved by Lloyd Webber

Andrew Lloyd Webber's new musical, Love Never Dies, has had some stinging reviews: "this poor sap of a show" (New York Times); "misses on all fronts" (Jewish Chronicle); "lacks psychological plausibility – worse, it lacks heart" (London Evening Standard). The poor reception hasn't been quite universal – Michael Billington in the Guardian was more generous – but for Lloyd Webber devotees it has tended to add weight to Sheila Hancock's recent complaint that critics, as well as may of her fellow actors, have "an incredibly grand attitude" towards musicals, which pack many West End theatres that would otherwise struggle to fill 1,500 seats every night.

Hancock isn't a disinterested witness. She's in the musical Sister Act, yet another stage adaptation of a Hollywood film, and soon she'll be appearing on the BBC as a judge in yet another Lloyd Webber talent contest. Still, she could be speaking a truth. I examine my own conscience: am I and most people I know (let's call ourselves Guardian readers) … are we, in her word, "snooty" about musicals? At first glance, the historical record looks pretty good. Beginning with Sigmund Romberg's Desert Song, as performed by the East Kilbride Operatic Society, my list of the seen and enjoyed would include My Fair Lady, Kiss Me Kate, A Chorus Line, most of Rogers and Hammerstein, quite a bit of Gilbert and Sullivan and a fair few Sondheims. Spamalot on Broadway and Anything Goes in Drury Lane are among my favourite nights in a theatre ever.

A second glance shows a bias towards comedy. A third glance suggests neophobia – a respect for the canon but very little new stuff. Until this week, the one and only Lloyd Webber musical I'd seen in a theatre was Evita, more than 30 years ago. Soon after, in the 1980s, musicals took on their present form. In the words of Billington they became "Thatcherism in action", both in their stories of individual triumph and in their ability to make loads of money from long runs and franchises. Because a musical costs a lot to put on – singers, actors, orchestras, sets – the seats cost a lot to sit in; the paying customer, therefore, wants value for his money and translates value as spectacle. Billington said he mourned the passing of the smaller-scale "convivial" musical: "The form has been undermined by money and spectacle. What you surrender to is the sense of the event."

Millions of people have surrendered, but somehow I missed Cats, Les Miserables, Miss Saigon and The Phantom of the Opera, which has been playing in London since 1986 and is now the longest-running show in Broadway history. Snootiness probably played its part. The queues waiting for returns looked much the same as the interminable lines outside Madame Tussauds and the Tower of London: coach parties, boys and girls from Stuttgart and Minneapolis. Musicals were just another feature of the tourist trade. To those of us reared to a peculiar reverence for the stage, it seemed almost sacrilegious to fill it with special-effect helicopters or waterfalls – but that, of course, is to misunderstand theatrical history. Revolving stages and orchestra pits exist to be used – and they certainly are in Love Never Dies.

I took my 17-year-old daughter. Two tickets for the stalls cost £135; a programme, £3.50; three orange juices and a small white wine, £13.80. We haven't had a good experience of London theatre recently, and when that happens the price of things looms especially large. Leaving Enron – a simple-minded play mysteriously over-praised – we wondered about the £120 it had cost the three of us. A night at the opera was even worse; £145 for two – a birthday treat – for a production ruined by director-itis, where a brother commits a finger rape of his sister, stage front, to suggest an incest that neither the story's original author nor its composer (Sir Walter Scott and Donizetti) could have possibly conceived; but then neither could they have foreseen a Scottish feudal feud transposed to a centrally heated Kelvinside villa c1880. Bah, psychological implausibility, etc, which was pretty well my mood as I collected our tickets at the Adelphi theatre in my new role as the Rip van Winkle of the British musical theatre.

I'll get the worst things over first. As the sequel to The Phantom of the Opera, Love Never Dies has had a long and complicated history, not musically but in terms of plotting, characterisation, dialogue and lyrics – "the book". The novelist Frederick Forsyth had a crack and then Ben Elton took over, working with the composer and the lyricist, Glenn Slater: four hands rather than two, and it shows in a muddled first half. Then there was the audience. The house was sold out, but the row immediately in front of us remained strangely empty until, two or three minutes after curtain-up and the action begun, half-a-dozen big people bumped down in their seats. The fact that all of them were drinking from plastic cups ruled out a rush from a delayed train or congestion on the M25.

Who were these tipplers, fidgets and whisperers? At the interval, two scarlet-liveried attendants led them from and to their seats.

"We're Lord Lloyd Webber's butlers," one said when I asked about the scarlet.

"So these would be Lord Lloyd Webber's guests?" I said, emulating Hancock's "incredibly grand attitudes" and indicating the jolly charabanc crowd.

Yes, the attendant said, but my daughter didn't believe her, having noticed from an advert in the theatre that "Grand" and "Luxury" experiences of Love Never Dies were available to those "celebrating a special occasion or entertaining clients" and prepared to pay at from £125 to £195 a head for the private dining room and the champagne.

As for the rest of the evening, there was nothing to dislike about it and a lot to be enjoyed. Lloyd Webber may be dismissed by some as a second-rate Puccini, but at its best his music can summon feelings in an audience without necessarily cheapening them, and the cast sang strongly and clear. There are one or two sweet melodies that pass the hum-as-you-leave-the-theatre test, and some of the stage effects are transfixing; all the way back on the tube we puzzled over the extra who had real legs and the torso and head of a skeleton. Amazing! How had it been done?

By the end, quite a few in the audience were in tears, or standing on their feet and cheering, or both. This is what they've come for – "ecstasy, some key, transcendent moment", as Billington told me earlier, adding that the seat prices made them determined to find such moments. The professional critic's role here can be redundant, or at least very difficult, when so many online amateurs get directly to the heart of Lloyd Webber's appeal. "I absolutely loved it. Gave me goosebumps, made me cry – just what you want from a night out at a cracking good theatre show," says a post on the Love Never Dies website. I might not go that far, but we were glad that we went.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/mar/20/ian-jack-on-musicals
 
I love Raul!!!! Patrick Wilson did a good job in the movie.
Most of singers for Raul were so handsome LOL

I was so disappointed at Webber when he and one of his colleagues think Raul is boring.


The secret of BIRTH... which is used for plots of shocking or boring soap operas

I don't expect it would be that much good.
 
....they go from being characters love and could know to soap opera characters to make the decisions easy in the end. Life is not like that, they did to this story what they tried to do to Michael, label him, make him a villain without any of the truth that made him a great human at his core with his own flaws. The media and shallow ignorant people wanted Michael to be a superficial,greedy, womanizing self-righteous playa and make music encouraging others to be that way, when he wasn't they had to make him a crazy sick freak because god forbid a major talent could be flawed and human or want more than selfish gain. He can only be one thing or another.....People are not labels and we need to stop putting them on each other.

You guys are far more knowledgeable than i'll ever be on this subject, so i'll stay out of the debate about the merits of this new project. Heck, i've only seen the movie once many moons ago, so i guess that equals zero ; oh yeah, and i saw this on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XegytVAM5WU last week when i read about the re-make; i actually like it, but what do i know?

iluv2drem (great name btw), i certainly agree with what you said about Michael; you are perfectly right - it's like people couldn't believe it - he was too good to be true in the eyes of some, no single human being could be that beautiful, that talented and that nice, there hadddd to be something 'wrong' with him. On the other hand, he was also put on a pedestal and thought of as some sort of ethereal creature, blameless 'angel' when in fact he was only human, with faults and shortcomings like the rest of us, but those only made him more real and more lovable, if u ask stupid little me.

I also hate the labeling that goes on, i'm actually guilty of it myself at times and i hate it cause i know it's wrong - people are far more complex than we would like to admit or are willing to accept. Circumstances play a huge part and also perspective - we don't relate to our children, friends, parents or lovers the same way, now do we? And thank God for that, if life were one dimensional it would bore the ish out of any of us. There is a place and a time for every activity under heaven and convention and shallow thinking shouldn't dictate our behavior and the way we approach others.

wendi, don't be upset, your thread will be fine; it will grow just like a little flower - it springs up on the fertile soil of civilized exchange of opinion and it's watered with passion, so that can only be good for growth :cheeky: And yeah, you are most definitely right - love never dies. LOL @the mistake in the title. I didn't even notice it at first, only when i read what u guys wrote about it in the thread did i see it hahaha.
 
Thank you very much Shabuya, I am really glad you see my point. I like the movie because it is faithful to the story's message and structure where as many interpretations mess with it too much by making the Phantom a pure villain. I see a lot of Michael in The Phantom and he did too, it was one of his favorite musicals to the point where he wanted to play him in the movie. I don't know if he would have been totally right for the part acting wise but I would have loved to hear recordings of him singing songs from the original. Don't give this sequel the time of day. It's contradictory to the meatiness and complexity of the original in story and characters. I hate that people like Michael and characters like the phantom are so misunderstood people want them to be easily dismissed, labeled or one-dimensional. We need to accept flaws as well as the possibility of redeemable qualities in a damaged person. The latter meaning the Phantom.
 
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