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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Justthefacts said:
Someone in the family is going to have to refute him. He killed his Mother's case today.
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The only way to refute his claims is by telling the jury why he lied , what his role exactly was and how he tried to steal mj's assets in 2005 which was the real reason behind the rift between him and Mike in the last 4 years of his life . You do know no one in the family will dare to say that .

they might say he got confused , they will most probably deny most of what he claimed but would the jurors believe them ? They did not see or hear any motive by him to lie, none of the parties impeached him , the fact that he destroyed his mother's case will add to his credibility .On the other hand AEG wont hesitate to use all the money the other siblings got from MJ to show their motivation to lie .

If the jurors don't hear a complelling evidence against Randy , or if no party is willing to impeach him , Jackie and Jermaine's denials will be worthless .
 
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Soundmind said:
The only way to refute him is by telling the jury why he lied , what his role exactly was and how he tried to steal mj's assets in 2005 which was the reason MJ refused to see him in the last 4 years of his life . You do know no one in the family will dare to say that .
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If they want to win this case they need too. We all know that the Jacksons are greedy bunch they are also a family divided do I don't even see that has a problem
 
right! if Randy cleaned up the house and got rid of the prescription bottles why didn't he know the names of the doctors? the names were on the bottles right? he could've investigated right there and had those doctors reported to the medical board and possibly saved his brother's life.. So Grace was trying to save MJ yet she was enabling too??:busted:
 
Soundmind said:
If AEG or Panish wanted to impeach Randy , they had much more than enough ammunition to do so . AEG has benefited a lot from his stupid , very stupid deposition ( later he and Panish discovered how stupid their strategy was) , they don't want to impeach him so don't expect anything from AEG in that regard .Eventhough they know he was lying , they know he is the mastermind behind the lawsuit , still they don't need to impeach him to punish him , all they need is to use his own words to destroy his dream of becoming a billionaire.
the jurors heard from Katherine's own son that she was in denial about him , he fooled her , he knew how to sweet talk to her , they got from her own testimony that she was still in denial , filed the case blaming everyone but her irresponsible son for his addition . AEG could not have asked for more . They don't want anyone in the jury to question Randy's motives, or Randy's words , it is in their best interest he appears as credible as possible , because he has done the most damage to the Jacksons case so far . If 7 interventions staged by the family failed , no sane person could expect any success from AEG in that regard.

For the remaining brothers who might deny most of Randy's deposition , they will ask them about the money they received from MJ directly or indirectly for the sole purpose of proving Randy's version was the honest one; the others were bought by MJ to stay silent , he showered them with money to deny everything. That's why we heard absolutely nothing about Randy being behind on child support or anything about the money he stole from MJ , no desire on AEG's part to attack his credibility . No point actually .
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If I didn't know you better, I'd have called you detective Columbo.
 
This should show us all that they are not smart people. And anyone else laugh at the Michael didn't drink line.
 
jaydom7 said:
yep! and did you notice that Randy never really mentioned lupus vitiligo or any other medical condition that MJ suffered from:no:
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That not what AEG want to hear. All about Michael addiction to drugs.

I don't know if i believe Randy their try 7 times.

What was missing here was the love it was not there and Michael family really didn't care about him it was all about the money. IMO if the love was there and the caring was there i do believe Michael family could have help him that imo.
 
"He&#8217;s an addict, and he isn&#8217;t responsible." <--- The moment Randy made AEG's case

and I believe it doesn't matter if anyone denies Randy's deposition and says Michael was clean of drugs. AEG would look to it and say "look Randy was aware of the drug problems but Michael was able to keep it a secret from Jermaine". It all ties with their secretive behavior AEG could not have known argument


As I said before this is a paradox. The only way Jacksons can argue AEG should have known is as Panish said yesterday, that everyone knew Michael's issues with drugs and therefore AEG should have known it too. However it hurts life expectancy and possible damages claims.
 
You have witness for AEG saying Michael was trying to get off drugs. Then you have Michael's family saying no he was an out of control addict. Very confusing
 
ivy;3885105 said:
"He&#8217;s an addict, and he isn&#8217;t responsible." <--- The moment Randy made AEG's case

and I believe it doesn't matter if anyone denies Randy's deposition and says Michael was clean of drugs. AEG would look to it and say "look Randy was aware of the drug problems but Michael was able to keep it a secret from Jermaine". It all ties with their secretive behavior AEG could not have known argument
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But even so Randy never said anything to Jermaine, Latoya, and Jackie? It was a secret between Joe, Janet, Rebbie and Tito? He said he wrote a letter to his family so only certain people got it?
 
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With all the smart and knowledgeable people in this group, I sincerely hope the lawyers have someone monitoring this forum. Seriously.

ivy;3885105 said:
"He&#8217;s an addict, and he isn&#8217;t responsible." <--- The moment Randy made AEG's case

and I believe it doesn't matter if anyone denies Randy's deposition and says Michael was clean of drugs. AEG would look to it and say "look Randy was aware of the drug problems but Michael was able to keep it a secret from Jermaine". It all ties with their secretive behavior AEG could not have known argument


As I said before this is a paradox. The only way Jacksons can argue AEG should have known is as Panish said yesterday, that everyone knew Michael's issues with drugs and therefore AEG should have known it too. However it hurts life expectancy and possible damages claims.
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YES, exactly--he made AEG's case. In addition to Panish not knowing what his expert witnesses were going to say (because expecting a quick settlement he didn't think he needed to), he didn't spend any time apparently "prepping" family witnesses either! Randy seems to be oblivious to the plaintiff's case against AEG & what they're trying to establish. LOL
 
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jaydom7 said:
right! if Randy cleaned up the house and got rid of the prescription bottles why didn't he know the names of the doctors? the names were on the bottles right? he could've investigated right there and had those doctors reported to the medical board and possibly saved his brother's life.. So Grace was trying to save MJ yet she was enabling too??:busted:
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Plus before he got rid of them, he noticed Grace's name on them, but he tells the attorney he does not know the name of the drugs. Really? In all his stories about how he found Michael not himself, he never knew what Michael took. If I did 7 or 3 interventions for my brother, I would definitely know what drugs my brother was taking. Who helped Randy plan some of his story.

I am so happy I had a mass offered for Michael today at church. He really needed prayers to rest in peace.

Soundmind you are right. AEG will not show how Randy is lying because Randy's testimony is helping their case. I wish I had twitter to tell Randy thanks for helping AEG and say bye to the millions!!!! They really did not think out this shakedown properly.
 
Justthefacts said:
Why would they refute Randy? His deposition helped them out a lot.
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Exactly. There's no reason to put him on the witness stand. In fact, that could be a risky move with Randy blurting out something that's not helpful to AEG's case. They got what they wanted from Randy in the depo. I just wonder if Panish now needs to call him to repair some of the significant damage to his case.

Petrarose said:
Plus before he got rid of them, he noticed Grace's name on them,

Soundmind you are right. AEG will not show how Randy is lying because Randy's testimony is helping their case. I wish I had twitter to tell Randy thanks for helping AEG and say bye to the millions!!!! They really did not think out this shakedown properly.
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LOL. I have one. I'll do it ;)
 
crillon said:
With all the smart--and I mean really smart--and knowledgeable people in this group, I sincerely hope the lawyers have someone monitoring this forum. Seriously.



YES, exactly--he made AEG's case. In addition to Panish not knowing what his expert witnesses were going to say (because expecting a quick settlement he didn't think he needed to), he didn't spend any time apparently "prepping" family witnesses either! Randy seems to be oblivious to the plaintiff's case against AEG & what they're trying to establish. LOL
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I think in the beginning Randy and Panish were on the same page, but someone Panish decided to shift somewhat when he realized crazy addicts can't make too much money. Randy's depo was already done, so it was too late to pull the depo back. Something I notice with Panish is that he tends to forget what he tried to show earlier in the case, so his later witnesses sort of harm what he was trying to do earlier. I don't know if he is tired and not going over the testimony every night like TMez did, or if because he is changing his stance the testimony does not jell at times. I think in his zeal to show that there was a drug problem and AEG should know, he forgot that if he got too wild with it, it would harm the money. However, once people talk and you tape them, you can't undo it because the other side have the information too. Next time, Panish will think of his strategy before taking a case and not wait on e-mails to plan a case, or expect a settlement will occur.

Randy's testimony compliments Shillerman's testimony, so it seems at first they were going to push the addict theory very strongly.

Gee I wonder what the plan is among family members today. They must be trying to repair that damage, unless they are too dense to see it. I mean after the jury clapped for Ortega, didn't that give them a clue about what this jury is looking for. We also saw that a juror looked at Katherine when Ortega spoke and they were writing a lot. I wish we could find out what Ortega was saying at that point when the juror looked at Katherine.

Crillon maybe Randy will block you. I wonder if he could explain in what way he was there for his brother during that testimony.
 
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And that is the part I don't understand. Pannish is a very good attorney. He struggled with addiction at points. He got himself some help when he realized that he had problems. But addiction is a slippery slope. AEG should have known something was wrong when a doctor shows up and he starts getting sick they should have done this or that. Not a good idea to say he was an out of control addict they realized that too late
 
Petrarose said:
I think in the beginning Randy and Panish were on the same page, but someone Panish decided to shift somewhat when he realized crazy addicts can't make too much money. Randy's depo was already done, so it was too late to pull the depo back. Something I notice with Panish is that he tends to forget what he tried to show earlier in the case, so his later witnesses sort of harm what he was trying to do earlier. I don't know if he is tired and not going over the testimony every night like TMez did, or if because he is changing his stance the testimony does not jell at times. I think in his zeal to show that there was a drug problem and AEG should know, he forgot that if he got too wild with it, it would harm the money. However, once people talk and you tape them, you can't undo it because the other side have the information too. Next time, Panish will think of his strategy before taking a case and not wait on e-mails to plan a case, or expect a settlement will occur.

Randy's testimony compliments Shillerman's testimony, so it seems at first they were going to push the addict theory very strongly.
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I think that's a great explanation and it goes back to what IVY said around the surprise expert witness testimony--that Panish expected a settlement and didn't prepare thoroughly for this case.
 
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 16s
That was the end of Randy's deposition. Court adjourned until Monday at 10 am PT. AEG has not announced who the next witness is.
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A: I don't remember saying that, but that doesn't mean I didn't say it. I kind of felt that way at the time.
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Q: Do you recall telling Randy Phillips that you see that Michael was fortunate to have AEG involved in his return to the stage?
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Randy: I practically slept there to put the show together.
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Q: Did you have a positive experience with AEG?
A: Horrible! (laughs) No, I'm just joking. They were nice. They were very nice.
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Randy said he pushed everything to the side and was getting together this memorial for him and did it with AEG, Kenny Ortega and those guys.
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"I haven't even buried my brother yet," Randy said.
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Randy: We were still trying to figure out how to grieve, and these people are in court, and will, and this nonsense.
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Randy: After MJ died, everyone was shocked. I was really displeased with all the stuff that was going on in court with Branca, Weitzman.
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"Sometimes he would isolate himself because he didn't want people to hear his voice" Randy said.

Q: Because he might be using drugs?
A: Yes
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Q: Did you speak with him regularly?
A: I don't talk to anyone in my family regularly.
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Q: Was he doing it in the 5 years before his death? Isolated?
A: Oh, parts, parts of it.
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That was probably the first one, the first intervention, Randy said.

Q: Was MJ isolating himself?
A: Yeah, he would do that.
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Q: Did he seem he was using drugs at that time?
A: Yes, his speech was slurred, but nothing terrible.
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Randy said in Taiwan they visited him, gave him family love, wanted to make him feel comforted so he wouldn't think about doing those things
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Randy: I dind't know anything but we had heard things. That's why we were there.
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Randy said what spurred him to go to Taiwan was the fact that he needed help, he was far away, we said we need to go.
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Q: Did you go to Taiwan?
A: Yes, with Rebbie and some family members

MJ was doing shows in Taiwan.
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Randy talked about interventions in NY, Neverland, Las Vegas. And there was another intervention in Taiwan.
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After being turned down, Randy would then go home.

Q: After Carolwood, did you or father take any other action?
A: No, after that time no.
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They told Randy "he's not here, he's not there." Randy questioned if he wasn't there why they had the gate closed. "Open it up, no big deal"
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Q: Who did you see there?
A: Security guard.
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Randy: My dad and I tried to get the house at Carolwood. They wouldn't let me through. My brother didn't want me to see him like that.
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Q: Do you know if he slept well while on tour?
A: He slept well

Randy said MJ had no issues sleeping that he knew of.
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Randy: He was doing good in Ireland from what I recall. 06-7, 07-08 around that time.
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Randy said the last time Grace called was a long time ago. "I made my presence known, there wasn't lot more. She didn't need to call."
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Those were the only two times Randy saw him under the influence. "I'd get calls from Grace all the time," he said.
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Randy: He didn't know who to trust, because people around him were lying to him, telling him things just to secure their positions.
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He said MJ had slurry speech. "He was really frightened to go to that courtroom."
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Randy: Then I later found out she had gotten him a patch. I was livid.

Randy doesn't know what kind of patch it was.
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Randy said that when Grace was around MJ, he was under the some kind of influence. "But we had him go to court and had the doctor with him"
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Q: Was he in the hospital because he had reaction to his drug use?
Randy: No. He was in the hospital because he didn't want to go to court.
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Randy: And I said "Okay, but you are going to court." He goes "No, I'm not."
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Randy: I went to hospital MJ said "I don't know what you're thinking. I'm not walking into that courtroom so don't even think about it Randy
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Randy: He didn't want to go to court. He didn't show up to court. And I was freaking out because it was on the news.
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Randy said MJ was really scared before the Santa Maria trial. And somehow Grace was able to get him something.
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Randy: He would get physical with me, I wouldn't be afraid to say no. But he was 90 pounds, it wouldn't do much.
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Randy: MJ didn't want to talk to me too much. Because maybe I wasn't afraid to say no to him.
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Randy: Did she ever believe he had a problem? Yeah, but I think she was in denial, she didn't want to believe it.
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Randy: My mom, you know, she would mever want to believe it. She's a mom, you know. I felt bad for my her.
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The letter was MJ's idea, Randy said.

Q: Did you mom sign it?
A: My mom, LaToya, all my brothers.
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He said he wasn't behind the article, but didn't sign the letter. Janet, Rebbie and his dad didn't sign it either.
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Randy said MJ got people in his family to sign a letter that was on People Mag saying he never used drugs. "I was really disturbed by that."
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"I fired them both that's probably whay they said it," Randy opined. "It had nothing to do with me."
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Randy: Grace and actually Raymone Bain because I fired them both.
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Randy: There was a People Magazine article coming out talking about his drug use. Grace told him that I was behind putting this article out.
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Randy: He was using it again because there was a... it was quite disturbing to me.
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Q: Were all of the interventions were before the Santa Maria trial?
A: There was one after, the Vegas was after.
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Randy: I fired her again, I noticed when she was around there was a pattern. Whenever she's around, he's wasted. So I fired her again.
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Randy said he started right before Santa Maria trial but he got MJ clean. He told Rebbie "don't leave his side" because I didn't trust Grace
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"He was in a great place," Randy said. "Then Grace came back around and he started using it again. I was very pissed off about it."
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Randy said MJ would really, relaly enjoyed being around his children. He would cook for them.
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Randy: When I was helping with the situation in Santa Maria I was able to make it stop. I fired Grace, stoped it from coming in.
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Q: Could you give a range if years that this was happening?
A: It happened over a period of time, when I was, he stopped doing it also.
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Randy: Michael wouldn't want to really be around his family too much, I think because he didn't want us to see him that way, specially me
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Shadow Wood home was 50-thousand square feet. Randy said he hated it, it was just too big.
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Randy tried to jump the gate a few times. "My dad and I tried a few times to get him help."
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After Vegas, there were no more interventions, Randy said. "I tried to get him help but I couldn't get as many people to stage intervention"
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Randy didn't speak with MJ that day. He said people would tip MJ off. "So it's bad news. Randy's coming to shake things up."
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Q: What happened when you arrived at Neverland?
A: I think that time he wasn't there.
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Randy said Rebbie and Janet were always supportive, always with him. "My dad also."
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Katherine was at one intervention only, Randy said. "That must've been the first one, around 2002-2003, at Neverland.
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A: First one at Neverland, not the one that KJ was present. Janet, myself, Rebbie. Maybe my mom was at that one. I think my mom was there.
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Rebbie and Janet went on all of them, except one or two.

Q: Describe the 3-4 additional interventions:
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The 4-5 interventions at Neverland were between 2004-2006. "One of them included my mom," Randy said.
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Randy: No, my mon no. As a mom, I guess maybe it was hard for her, you know, for a mother to see that.
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Q: Did you get responses?
A: I think everyone was in shock, maybe a little denial. I always got responses, my dad, Rebbie and Janet, always
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He wrote the letter down on paper and had assistant copy it. He said not everybody in his family looks at email.
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Q: Did you send it to your mother as well?
A: Everybody got a copy of it.
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Randy: So this is where the family needs to step in and do something about it because their desire becomes physical.
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Randy: He's an addict, and at this point, addicts aren't so responsible for what they do.
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Q: Who did you send the letter to?
A: Everybody, copied everybody. I made sure everybody knew it.
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Randy wrote letters to my family about MJ's problem and that they had to do something to help.
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Randy said he was spending a lot of time with him, so he kind of got close look at what was going on.
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Finally out of twitter jail... Here's the rest of Randy Jackson's deposition.
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"There were a few over there. I don't know, maybe 4 or 5," Randy responded. It was around 2004, 2005. Or 2005-06.
 
Justthefacts said:
You have witness for AEG saying Michael was trying to get off drugs. Then you have Michael's family saying no he was an out of control addict. Very confusing
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very.. there is even Dr Farschian who claims Katherine was aware of MJ's detox program because he showed her the patch. Of course Katherine denied even knowing the doctor or seeing MJ's patch..
 
Justthefacts said:
And that is the part I don't understand. Pannish is a very good attorney.
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That's the Michael Jackson he knew from Randy . From day one after MJ's death Randy Jackson went on a full attack mood after himand his kids . He was on a mission from day one . Panish probably believed the family indeed tried many times to intervene , he probably was told MJ was a drug addict beyong anyhelp . Remember before Murray was even charged the family had already lawyered up to sue AEG . Later they discovered the mistake they made . That's what happens when you build your case on lies , it crumbles .
 
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Petrarose said:
Crillon maybe Randy will block you. I wonder if he could explain in what way he was there for his brother during that testimony.
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I don't think so...we've "talked" before ;) But, you never know. And, I'm sure a lot of fans are thanking Randy for his "contributions."
 
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Soundmind said:
That's the Michael Jackson he knew from Randy . From day one after MJ's death Randy Jackson went on a full attack mode after himand his kids . He was on a mission from day one . Panish probably believed the family indeed tried many times to intervene , he probably was told MJ was a drug addict beyong anyhelp . Remember before Murray was even charged the family had already lawyered up to sue AEG . Later they discovered the mistake they made . That's what happens when you build your case on lies , it crumbles .
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I think what you've said is exactly right--and in addition to Randy posturing, Janet Jackson appeared on Oprah right after Michael died (doing what I'm sure she thought at the time was "damage control") talking about what a big drug problem Michael had and how the family did everything they could do to help him--all said BEFORE the cause of death was even determined.

The Jacksons had AEG in their sights for a big payday from the start (before autopsy results were even in & anyone was charged) and then I think Murray became a nuisance & obstruction, the guy who was now in the way of fully blaming AEG.
 
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jaydom7 said:
Big Apple, I think in that same deposition Randy said that 2007 letter from Katherine and her sons denying an intervention was MJ's doing and MJ told Katherine to sign it. In other words Ragu said MJ forced Katherine and the other brothers to sign it. Ragu is not too bright because he is also throwing his own mother under the bus and damaging her case.
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In my opinion, if Randy said that, then his deposition also confirms AEG's theory that Michael was manipulative and didn't want his so-called secrets exposed.

Oh and I agree with you: Randy Jackson is not very smart.
 
I went to Twitter and said to Randy and said say goodbye to the billions you were looking for. And look in the mirror and say it was all my fault
 
Randy: We were still trying to figure out how to grieve, and these people are in court, and will, and this nonsense.

^But Randy it was you and your family who caused those issues in court. If you have to grieve, grieve. Randy acts as though he has to plan which form of grief he should accept: "oh let me see how I am going to grieve, here, should I cry, laugh, hide."

In his depo he acts like a man in charge of Michael, his staff, and family members. Does Randy have this type of power in that family? He does not even know about Michel in Ireland, and I am sure the information he has came from Grace or others.

Ivy even though you are as good as the hand you are dealt, Panish problem has a lot to do with bad planning, faults in strategy, not getting all depositions and studying them, not creating one strong theory and sticking to it, not researching his clients, not making clients zip it. So to me it is not so much he got a bad case, but the way he went about it is a huge problem. I know some attorneys get some cases with little evidence, but you can see they try and put something together in a cohesive manner. Because he is not prepared he gets flustered, which results in school girl fights in the court.
 
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 6m
Q: Do you know if he slept well while on tour?
A: He slept well

Randy said MJ had no issues sleeping that he knew of.
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He slept well, he liked to tour , Grace always called him to tell him mj was getting drugs however she was the one feeding him the drugs and everytime Randy fired her yet she recalled him to fire her again I mean to help MJ :*****:

Grace told MJ he was behind the drug story in 2007 ( as we have suspected ) but he was not , yeah. He goes on and on about Grace and Raymon as the two who were feeding him drugs and keeping him away from the family which was exactly what was leaked to the press in 2007 . Who told him MJ was abusing drugs in Vegas ? Grace also ? criminal defrauder , his accomplices were Janet , Joe and Rebbie. He always name them whenever he needs to give credibility to a new wild claim , he knows they will back him .
 
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