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New MJ content (Possibility)

AdeZ said:
The estate is a business lol, making money is an objective of theirs. Why would the estate release something for free? This is like going to a store and asking the manager why don't they put out free products, they need to make a profit obviously.
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They released both concerts for free on their youtube channel. They still make a profit from ads but it's free for the fans. Win win.
 
AdeZ said:
Oh, i didnt consider that at all, when i read the "leak it for free" comment. Still posting it on youtube wouldnt be as profitable compared to an actual release.
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How about pay per view? Or subscription?
 
dethorro said:
he always hated it when the public got to listen to his unfinished material
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He approved the release of many demos and unfinished recordings, while he was alive, on releases like "The Ultimate Collection"and the 2001 reissue of his classic albums.
 
kreen said:
He approved the release of many demos and unfinished recordings, while he was alive, on releases like "The Ultimate Collection"and the 2001 reissue of his classic albums.
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As I have said in my previous post, he approved of the box set in 2004 because he wanted his contract with Sony to end. He himself called the project 'just a box set with two new songs on it', so it was not a project which he made because he wanted to, but because he had to and did not care at that point what they were releasing, as long as his contract with them would end after that.

It's also extremely questionable how much he cared about a box set they were releasing when he was just about to have his trial in a couple of months, but anyway.

If anything, the 2001 reissues of his albums prove my point regarding his dislike of releasing unfinished music. Let's take a look at the bonus material:

Off the Wall (2001 edition): You have nine tracks, seven of which are portions of interviews with Quincy Jones and Rod Temperton. The only 'new' songs are the demos of Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough and Working Day and Night - two songs which had been released officially. So, no new songs from these sessions.

Thriller (2001 edition): There are twelve tracks and only one demo, which is the demo of Billie Jean, a song which was released, and one unreleased song, Carousel. The song Carousel is not a demo, but a finished song. In fact, the song was scrapped from the album at the last minute in favour of Human Nature.

Bad (2001 edition): Here again, out of the seven tracks, we get two new songs: Streetwalker and Fly Away. The former is, once again, not a demo. It's finished and it was, like Carousel, scrapped at the last moment in favour of Another Part Of Me. Michael's version of Fly Away appears to be a demo, however, the song had been released by Rebbie Jackson in 1998, so you can't call it an unreleased song.

Dangerous (2001 edition): Not a single new song. And there were so many to choose from.

The original plan for Thriller 25, was to include many of the demos which are now circulating online. However, Michael rejected this idea and instead we only got these remixes and For All Time, a demo from the Dangerous sessions. In the book Remember The Time, Bill Whitfield wrote that there were many plans for Thriller 25, but Michael wasn't interested in them.

The conclusion is that Michael was never enthusiastic about releasing any unfinished material to the public. Every time he did it, he had to do it.
 
dethorro said:
As I have said in my previous post, he approved of the box set in 2004 because he wanted his contract with Sony to end. He himself called the project 'just a box set with two new songs on it', so it was not a project which he made because he wanted to, but because he had to and did not care at that point what they were releasing, as long as his contract with them would end after that.

It's also extremely questionable how much he cared about a box set they were releasing when he was just about to have his trial in a couple of months, but anyway.

If anything, the 2001 reissues of his albums prove my point regarding his dislike of releasing unfinished music. Let's take a look at the bonus material:

Off the Wall (2001 edition): You have nine tracks, seven of which are portions of interviews with Quincy Jones and Rod Temperton. The only 'new' songs are the demos of Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough and Working Day and Night - two songs which had been released officially. So, no new songs from these sessions.

Thriller (2001 edition): There are twelve tracks and only one demo, which is the demo of Billie Jean, a song which was released, and one unreleased song, Carousel. The song Carousel is not a demo, but a finished song. In fact, the song was scrapped from the album at the last minute in favour of Human Nature.

Bad (2001 edition): Here again, out of the seven tracks, we get two new songs: Streetwalker and Fly Away. The former is, once again, not a demo. It's finished and it was, like Carousel, scrapped at the last moment in favour of Another Part Of Me. Michael's version of Fly Away appears to be a demo, however, the song had been released by Rebbie Jackson in 1998, so you can't call it an unreleased song.

Dangerous (2001 edition): Not a single new song. And there were so many to choose from.

The original plan for Thriller 25, was to include many of the demos which are now circulating online. However, Michael rejected this idea and instead we only got these remixes and For All Time, a demo from the Dangerous sessions. In the book Remember The Time, Bill Whitfield wrote that there were many plans for Thriller 25, but Michael wasn't interested in them.

The conclusion is that Michael was never enthusiastic about releasing any unfinished material to the public. Every time he did it, he had to do it.
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You're reaching with some of those objections. Besides, by the 2000's, MJ's perfectionism was not what it once was, as evidenced by the laziness and half-bakedness evident throughout Invincible. Near the end, what MJ wanted more than perfectionnism was revenue with the least amount of work involved, and if someone had told him, "give us eight of those old records you've half-forgotten, and Timbaland will turn them into a top 10 record and single, and you won't have to lift a finger", I think MJ would have been elated.
 
dethorro said:
Dangerous (2001 edition): Not a single new song. And there were so many to choose from.
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Also, to add bonus material would have require a double CD. The album duration (1:17:07 for the 1991 edition, 1:17:05 for the 2001 edition) is thought for standard CD duration. Max 80 minutes. Ok there's almost 3 minute left, but most songs from that era are longer. The only Dangerous with extra tracks that I can think of is a Japanese I think with "Who Is It" version from a Pepsi commercial. Maybe they could have fit "Happy Birthday Lisa" in there, but that would sound weird at the end of the album.
And wasn't there actually a bonus CD planned at some point?
 
AdeZ said:
The estate is a business lol, making money is an objective of theirs. Why would the estate release something for free? This is like going to a store and asking the manager why don't they put out free products, they need to make a profit obviously.
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just like Michael said :) All for money... thats the point.
 
kai said:
dude... just no. MJ always hated it in his lifetime and he will hate it as a dead man. He definitely would not want us to have an Album like "Michael" or "Xscape"... any musician who is a little perfectionist would agree that even after death they don't want their unfinished stuff to be released...
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but he didnt know he will die. he planned so much. and knowing that all his work just disppeared is not right. its nasty. michael would not appreciate that
 
dethorro said:
I’m not pretending anything, you’re the one who is speculating about what Michael would want after his death. I’m going by what his feelings were when he was alive and when his unfinished material would leak onto the internet (e.g. Escape or Hold My Hand). I also don’t understand how I’m being arrogant or disrespectful but, whatever.
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im not speculating. I just want everything to be right. And it's wrong to throw away other people's work (or hide it from those who needs it the most). it's disrespectful for the person who was making it. and you trying to speak from other man name. that's the point
 
dethorro said:
Bad (2001 edition): Here again, out of the seven tracks, we get two new songs: Streetwalker and Fly Away. The former is, once again, not a demo. It's finished and it was, like Carousel, scrapped at the last moment in favour of Another Part Of Me. Michael's version of Fly Away appears to be a demo, however, the song had been released by Rebbie Jackson in 1998, so you can't call it an unreleased song.
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Streetwalker as released on Bad SE & BAD 25 is just an experimental demo based on the 1986 Encino recording. The final album cut from 1987 hasn't been released yet.
Maxym said:
Also, to add bonus material would have require a double CD. The album duration (1:17:07 for the 1991 edition, 1:17:05 for the 2001 edition) is thought for standard CD duration. Max 80 minutes. Ok there's almost 3 minute left, but most songs from that era are longer. The only Dangerous with extra tracks that I can think of is a Japanese I think with "Who Is It" version from a Pepsi commercial. Maybe they could have fit "Happy Birthday Lisa" in there, but that would sound weird at the end of the album.
And wasn't there actually a bonus CD planned at some point?
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The initial concept of Dangerous SE contained indeed an extra disc.

Infact, most of the initial bonus content on all SEs were more or less scrapped.

 
Fuzball said:
Streetwalker as released on Bad SE & BAD 25 is just an experimental demo based on the 1986 Encino recording. The final album cut from 1987 hasn't been released yet.
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I know, it’s the version done by Bill Bottrell in 1988, when Michael was on tour. But it still cannot be considered a demo because musically and vocally it is finished. And my point was that they did not choose unfinished songs or song ideas for these reissues of his albums, but either finished songs or demos of already released songs.
 
Robbsaber01 said:
They released both concerts for free on their youtube channel. They still make a profit from ads but it's free for the fans. Win win.
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And talking about the 2 YouTube released concerts, if anyone's interested in reading this, I will be talking about the profit.

YouTube's highest average paying CPM + the ads from the 2 YT video = $8.92
(So we will have to times that by the views they got and extras)

Current Wembley video views= 22,160,286 views divided by 1000 views (cause of the CPM per 1K views)= $22,160.286
$22,160.286 X $ 8.92= $197,669


Current Bucharest video views= 34,793,168 views divided by 1000 views = $34,793.168
$34,793.168 X $8.92= $310,355

So in total they made about an estimate of $ 508,024 dollars from these 2 releases, hopefully they put that money aside to bake tapes and digitize them, cause who knows how much these tapes stand until they go bad. Cause the visual footage and music tapes could go bad if not helped. Hoping they have digitizing on their mindset as well. Once they go bad, serious footage is due to be lost.

(I'm certain I have my info checked and everything is closely accurate to the actual numbers.)
 
@femi the question is how much would it cost the Estate to digitalize concert tapes? If they feel they can't get a profit nothing will happen.
 
filmandmusic said:
@femi the question is how much would it cost the Estate to digitalize concert tapes? If they feel they can't get a profit nothing will happen.
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Digitizing/archiving tapes is cheaper then restoring film. I think the estate has already digitized the tapes that they have. Film from concerts/music videos is unknown though.
 
filmandmusic said:
@femi the question is how much would it cost the Estate to digitalize concert tapes? If they feel they can't get a profit nothing will happen.
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That's a great question. I wonder who works with the Estate in help with digitizing any tape or stuff documented in the storage vault. I wonder what their rates are to digitize film especially when it's tapes that have been here for a long time. Do they hire a company to manage their films and tapes and just leave that process to them or do they just put experienced people in that category on their payroll so the Estate could have their teams do them their selves? The average minimum cost for digitizing tapes especially if it's (VHS, U-matic or mm film) is from $10.00 to about $95.00. But the Estate probably has lots of tapes so the cost of them all together would be higher especially when it was shot on special equipment. They would probably have to spend a lot if they want it the best and professionally done for their standards. I know they don't have that much of an archive but they have a lot of stuff, even if it isn't music. The short film tapes, concert tapes, studio session tapes & rare tapes is probably the most worthy thing of their vault. I'm gonna give a random date and example. Let's say Michael has tapes documented in his collection from January 1979 (The reason I don't go back farther cause most of the pro-shot and rare tapes shot from July 1968 to 1978 is most likely in the Motown and Epic archive vaults) to all the way to June 2009 (including the working cameras that filmed Michael in rehearsals for himself to watch & critique). There has to be a lot of tapes to unwind and digitize them. About 500-1000 tapes at least? Cause Michael constantly had film crews with him and documented almost everything from plane flights, hotel tours, van rides to the arenas & stadiums, airport arrivals, personally never-before seen tour interviews, studio footage, the creative process, almost everything you could think of. Michael even had tapes of him holding the camera and documenting himself. They probably have also a few short-film tape masters, the behind the scenes and the making of it. That has to cost big money. I know some tapes are unorganized and lost but they have to have many decent tapes in there. And that's the problem, nothing will be done if they don't wanna bail because of the risks and if they don't make a good enough profit of the footage. I feel a documentary based on his artistic and creative side (more longer, detailed than the Bad 25 doc & without fillers) would be best if they really want to make a big profit. They need great PR marketing & maybe preview screenings for fans and media people first. Maybe based on the reactions to a screening would make them feel positive about putting their faith into it. They need to also sign up with big companies like IMAX & AMC (If they are confident in partnering with the Estate). to put it in lots of theaters all over the world. That would be a win-win-win, win for the Estate, the fans & companies.
 
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femi said:
That's a great question. I wonder who works with the Estate in help with digitizing any tape or stuff documented in the storage vault. I wonder what their rates are to digitize film especially when it's tapes that have been here for a long time. Do they hire a company to manage their films and tapes and just leave that process to them or do they just put experienced people in that category on their payroll so the Estate could have their teams do them their selves? The average minimum cost for digitizing tapes especially if it's (VHS, U-matic or mm film) is from $10.00 to about $95.00. But the Estate probably has lots of tapes so the cost of them all together would be higher especially when it was shot on special equipment. They would probably have to spend a lot if they want it the best and professionally done for their standards. I know they don't have that much of an archive but they have a lot of stuff, even if it isn't music. The short film tapes, concert tapes, studio session tapes & rare tapes is probably the most worthy thing of their vault. I'm gonna give a random date and example. Let's say Michael has tapes documented in his collection from January 1979 (The reason I don't go back farther cause most of the pro-shot and rare tapes shot from July 1968 to 1978 is most likely in the Motown and Epic archive vaults) to all the way to June 2009 (including the working cameras that filmed Michael in rehearsals for himself to watch & critique). There has to be a lot of tapes to unwind and digitize them. About 500-1000 tapes at least? Cause Michael constantly had film crews with him and documented almost everything from plane flights, hotel tours, van rides to the arenas & stadiums, airport arrivals, personally never-before seen tour interviews, studio footage, the creative process, almost everything you could think of. Michael even had tapes of him holding the camera and documenting himself. They probably have also a few short-film tape masters, the behind the scenes and the making of it. That has to cost big money. I know some tapes are unorganized and lost but they have to have many decent tapes in there. And that's the problem, nothing will be done if they don't wanna bail because of the risks and if they don't make a good enough profit of the footage. I feel a documentary based on his artistic and creative side (more longer, detailed than the Bad 25 doc & without fillers) would be best if they really want to make a big profit. They need great PR marketing & maybe preview screenings for fans and media people first. Maybe based on the reactions to a screening would make them feel positive about putting their faith into it. They need to also sign up with big companies like IMAX & AMC (If they are confident in partnering with the Estate). to put it in lots of theaters all over the world. That would be a win-win-win, win for the Estate, the fans & companies.
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I wonder what happened to the little seconds of rare footage that was shown in the promos, commercials and sequence transitions for the Private Home Movies. A lot of stuff that was advertised for the special wasn't shown. I hope those footage are not lost since they were the recent footage pulled out the vault for that special in 2003.
 
I'm of the opinion that if the estate says they don't have something it means they haven't bothered looking beyond the stuff they already have. Just gotta look at the likes of Michael Prince who has hard drives full of stuff that they haven't bothered to look at yet to see that they aren't that concerned about preserving stuff.
 
Stay on topic folks, no need to let this thread turn divisive. Just share wishes for new content, or related news and rumors - we shouldn't be fighting each other.
 
I’ve been to Ukraine and I…Nations lift your voices and sing…
 
So sad People of the World isn't vocally finished. - would have been a perfect charity single to release right now.
 
Hess said:
So sad People of the World isn't vocally finished. - would have been a perfect charity single to release right now.
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Very true, it would fit perfectly. Some of the lyrics we do have to it though are great

Life should be harmony
In this world of self-destruction
Nations lift your voices and sing
 
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