Neil Ratner (history tour anesthesiologist)

[elusive moonwalker]

i guess if murray was going to bring it into the uk (if he was coming) then he would have put it in his luggage and hoped his bags werent searched.

 

[7angel]

So the whole Protofol story-the things doesn't ad up,aren't they?

 

[jrsfan]

I'm not familiar with shipping regulations regarding propofol I'm afraid. That said, I would hope attempting to get it into the country would cause the authorities to ask questions because it is not a standard 'prescription' medication, being as it's for hospital use only. It's not a cardiac drug, for example, that simply isn't available here so needs to be shipped in from abroad. It would never be prescribed outside of an operating theatre/intensive care environment therefore shipping it for use by a Dr in the community would be, and is, unheard of. To give another example, requesting propofol to be shipped to a private residence is akin to getting an intravenous chemotherapy drug shipped to a non hospital address - it just wouldn't happen here and I suspect would raise alarm bells if an attempt was made to obtain it in this way.

Propofol is so specialised it isn't even on the list of approved controlled medications one can take in and out of the UK.

Just thinking of several possibilities - a person could put it in another container & or change labels & then ship it. I can't imagine them checking every liquid although over there, there have been terrorist attacks. A couple years ago, I was in New York City carrying a box to a UPS store in this building to ship back home (did some shopping) & I sent the building security in a panic although they looked at me & I explained I couldn't carry it all on the plane.

Also, if illegal drugs get smuggled everywhere, there must be ways for this stuff to get done. Murray wouldn't have contacts for that in London, he would need help - perhaps someone from AEG?

 

[xthunderx2]

I'm a doctor. It is only possible to obtain propofol in the UK from hospital pharmacies - something that Murray would not have been able to do. From there it is either tracked to operating theatres or intensive care - it's use is more restricted here: for example, it is not used for colonoscopy examinations as it is in the US to my knowledge.

It certainly cannot be obtained from community pharmacies. IMO if Murray had planned to use it whilst in London I expect he would have had to bring it with him (risking customs questions if his belongings had been searched - it's not exactly a commonly used medication, he wouldn't have been able to justify it's use and he's not even an anaesthetist).

well seeing as Michael would of taken a private plane to London...what are the chance that he himself could of packed it in his own luggage? could he have gotten away with that?

 

[ivy]

well seeing as Michael would of taken a private plane to London...what are the chance that he himself could of packed it in his own luggage? could he have gotten away with that?

probably if they let him bypass the security and the customs.

 

[xthunderx2]

probably if they let him bypass the security and the customs.

thank you Ivy..so that was a possibility that was the plan. Besides who is gonna give Michael Jackson a hard time about security. Probably noone.

 

[honeysucklejasmine]

Just thinking of several possibilities - a person could put it in another container & or change labels & then ship it. I can't imagine them checking every liquid although over there, there have been terrorist attacks.
Also, if illegal drugs get smuggled everywhere, there must be ways for this stuff to get done. Murray wouldn't have contacts for that in London, he would need help - perhaps someone from AEG?

Transferring propofol to a different container risks contamination no matter how aseptically one would try to do it. Remember if the sterility is breached it has to be discarded after 6 hours due to the risk of bacterial contamination.

Secondly, not sure what it could be relabeled as since there is no other drug to my knowledge that has a similar appearance to propofol. Ultimately, as you say if someone is determined to bring something into the country illegally, I am sure there are ways and means to do so.

well seeing as Michael would of taken a private plane to London...what are the chance that he himself could of packed it in his own luggage? could he have gotten away with that?

thank you Ivy..so that was a possibility that was the plan.

I agree, there is every chance Murray and/or Michael could have 'gotten away with it', my point was that he/they would have had to take a calculated risk that they would not be searched.

Besides who is gonna give Michael Jackson a hard time about security. Probably noone.

I guess we're probably getting into the minutiae and off topic here but I would suggest that someone from the music fraternity would be MORE likely to be a target for customs searches since their use of illicit drugs as a community is more widely documented. NB Just to clarify, I am not saying I believe Michael used illicit drugs.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

thank you Ivy..so that was a possibility that was the plan. Besides who is gonna give Michael Jackson a hard time about security. Probably noone.

also we arent talking about a few suitcases here . we are talking about crates of stuff being shipped over. from customes etc to alsorts. be very easy to put the dip in one of the dozens of crates/bags that would be shipped over

 

[kasume]

I agree, there is every chance Murray and/or Michael could have 'gotten away with it', my point was that he/they would have had to take a calculated risk that they would not be searched.

And just imagine what would happen to Michael if he took that risk and got caught?

If there was anyone doing that, I don't think it would have been Michael himself.

But I've also heard that Michael was going to fire Murray. I mean, that turns everything around and I'd like to know more about that.

Anyways, personally, I really don't think Michael knew that propofol was even in Murray's hands.

Michael was very into it, very open-minded about things. He was just living on the stage. His whole vibe was just different. It was like he was really connecting with us and the music. It just felt done. It was like, 'OK, I can sleep tonight', TII dancer, chris grant

 

[jrsfan]

probably if they let him bypass the security and the customs.

Do you remember how much or do we know how much diprivan bottles he would need per night to sleep? I thought it was a 100 ml bottle, so would that have lasted the whole night for him to sleep?

 

[Ohood]

can anyone explain what does the man talk about at 3:50 about Oxegine Tanks ?
and if he is talking about MJ or about dancers in general ?

 

[kasume]

^^ thanks for posting that vid. i think he's just talking about Michael, since he says "he's" as a specific person.

was this vid recorded before the autopsy results, because when will this drugg addict stuff end?

Do you remember how much or do we know how much diprivan bottles he would need per night to sleep? I thought it was a 100 ml bottle, so would that have lasted the whole night for him to sleep?

I don't know, but I know that a 100ml bottle was enough to kill him.

Several days after Jackson's death, law enforcement found numerous bottles of Propofol in that closet, including a large, empty, 100ml bottle with a large tear in the rubber stopper. The tear could be critical evidence.

Dr. Dombrowski says if a spike is used to connect the bottle directly to the IV tube, the doctor must use an infusion pump to regulate the flow of Propofol -- otherwise, the patient could easily OD. There was no infusion pump found in Jackson's home.

this doctor couldnt research on the two ways to use propofol?? why would he give Michael the entire bottle like that in the first place when all those other drugs already in him??? accident my ass. those drugs were FORCED into Michael. that's what I belive and that is what something is telling me. It's my opinion.

 

[earth child]

It would have been very easy for any of them to get propafol into the UK.

"Anything, anything, anything for money!"

 

[mjsdot]

There is a video of Michael being interviewed after the death of Princess Diana and he says that he woke up and his doctor was there and the doctor told him about Diana, that would have been during the history tour.I remember seeing it at the time and thinking the doctor comment was strange.

I will try and find it if anyone wants to see it?

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

^^Barbara Walters interview

 

[mjsdot]

Thats the one! Thankyou

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

^^ thanks for posting that vid. i think he's just talking about Michael, since he says "he's" as a specific person.

was this vid recorded before the autopsy results, because when will this drugg addict stuff end?

...

Yes, that attempt at 'documentary' came before the toxicology results were there. Lots of Demerol talk blahblah.

The entire "What really happened" is pretty cringeworthy. If you think "Living with MJ" was supposed to display him in a weird light- this thing's far worse.

 

[threatened2020]

I genuinely didn't realise he used it whilst on the HIStory tour. There didn't seem to be any signs as he looked fit and stronger than ever. I guess in his late 30s his body would still have got away with it.

Propofol has a side effect which causes 'hoarness' of the voice, this may explain the lip syncing?