Neil Ratner (history tour anesthesiologist)

kasume

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I have a few questons about his story.

Is this man still an anesthesiologist, or is he now retired?

Also, there were signs of propofol usage (even though they didn't know it at the time) with Murray. Kai Chase saw those oxygen tanks brought up and down the stairs. I would like to know if ANYONE during the history tour (besides Neil) noticed at least one thing that was odd. Besides with Ratner, I wonder why no one has come up and say they noticed at least one odd thing (like Chase). Or did I miss something? If I did, please tell. Did he REALLY give Michael propofol? And where did that "mini clinic" story come from?

And like murray, ratner also has a history of professional misconduct, even fraud. And I even read that he also went to jail for it all.

http://w3.health.state.ny.us/opmc/factions.nsf/58220a7f9eeaafab85256b180058c032/d37172ffaeddd52685256bff00655907/$FILE/lc148415.pdf

I remember there was a small interview of this guy in front of his house. If anyone can find that vid, please post it becuse I can't find it.
 
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remember though mj had lung issues and the tanks had been along part of mjs past. they were at the ranch in 03 and i think i read were mentioned back to the bad tour. so it doesnt just go with diprivan.very few ppl would be in such areas to see things while on tour i guess. wayne would have alot of knowledge. whether such ppl get subpeoned time will tell
 
And where did that "mini clinic" story come from?.

from cnn 360 with anderson cooper. I don't know the video but this is the transcript

Tonight, new information on Jackson's history with potent sleep drugs -- 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta has been on the trail of a doctor who we've learned worked for Jackson on tour in the late 1990s, an anesthesiologist himself with a checkered medical past. Sanjay what have you learned?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you. We know several things now. Sources close to Michael Jackson tell us that during the "History" tour back in '96 and '97 Jackson was actually traveling with what looked like a mini clinic, including an IV pole, drips and what looked like a rack with lights and monitors and such.

Sources who had the opportunity to see Jackson at various points during the tour say Jackson was traveling with at least two doctors and one of whom was anesthesiologist Dr. Neil Ratner.

Now, one source said he asked Ratner about all this elaborate equipment, and Ratner said he was there because Michael simply couldn't sleep. Now Ratner went on to say, according to the source, "I take him down at night" -- referring to Jackson -- "and I bring him back up in the morning."

Now, a source said Michael Jackson often appeared groggy. And when the source asked Jackson about all of this equipment, he just said he needed sleep. So, it was pretty remarkable, Anderson, to just hear that so clearly.

COOPER: Well Sanjay, I mean, over the past couple of nights we've talked to each other about how dangerous powerful anesthetics can be. Do we know anything about precautions taken to protect Jackson on this tour?

GUPTA: Yes, we do. Sources say that Ratner would keep the equipment in his hotel room, which would be next to Jackson's. And he would use that for monitoring Jackson's vital signs when he was asleep, or under, as the source put it.

Now, there was a "Vanity Fair" article that said a former business associate of Jackson's said the singer had a quote, "sleep disorder," and then Ratner confirmed that to us today on the phone.

But I really want to talk to him some more, so we tracked him down, Anderson, today at the Woodstock, New York, where he now lives with his wife. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA (on camera): We've come here because your name was obviously associated with Michael Jackson. And people said that there was a question of whether or not you gave anesthesia to him while he was on tour. And we just wanted to come to the source, you, and hear and find out if that had happened.

DR. NEIL RATNER, FORMER PHYSICIAN OF MICHAEL JACKSON'S: I'm very upset. I'm distraught. Michael was a good person.

I can't talk about it right now. It's really something I don't want to talk about right now. I've lost a friend and I feel very badly about that.

GUPTA: There were two people, and I just want to allow you to respond to this. And you can or you don't have to. But I think it's important that you hear this. We have a couple of different sources have said they would see IV equipment, what sounded like probably pumps, they described as sort of an audio rack sort of looking thing in a hotel room with Michael. And they made it sound like that was your stuff. Are they wrong? I was really...

RATNER: I don't want to talk about this topic at all now. I really have nothing to say about it right now. You know? The man hasn't had a funeral, and the man hasn't been buried. It's inappropriate. I don't want to talk about it right now. And I appreciate it if we could end this now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So, who is Dr. Neil Ratner? Well, he's a board-certified doctor who, as we mentioned, served as one of Jackson's doctors on that "History" tour that spanned '96-'97; over 80 performances on that tour.

Now, Ratner was actually stripped of his medical license for three years back in 2002 after being found guilty of insurance fraud -- Anderson.

COOPER: So, back to the hotel rooms, the "History" tour. Did Ratner or your sources say anything about seeing -- there's been talk about this drug Diprivan or Propofol in the last couple days because of this registered nurse who said that Jackson asked her for that three months ago. And has the sources mention anything about that?

GUPTA: Well, there's no specific mention of those -- medication Propofol, also know as Diprivan, no specific medication. But it's worth noting that, now we're talking back in '97. At that time at least Propofol wasn't nearly as commonly used as it is today. But there weren't specific drugs mentioned, just that equipment -- Anderson.

COOPER: Is it odd to you as a medical doctor to have an anesthesiologist with somebody on a tour?

GUPTA: Completely odd. No question, very odd, and to have all that equipment as well. I've never heard of such a thing, to have that equipment outside some sort of medical setting. So you know, I'm hearing things that frankly I've never heard of before as a doctor.

COOPER: All right. Sanjay, obviously a lot still we don't know. And just to be clear, we do not know what, if any drugs, Michael Jackson was taking for insomnia or for any other reason. And we won't know until the toxicology reports are made public.
 

Yeah, Neil Ratner was his name.

Okay, so Michael definately had a doctor and tanks with him for lung conditions, and also during tours, I heard to put fluids into his body to regain all that energy he lost.

So we've heard about all that in the past. But have we heard about any sleep problems during the history tour?

I'm not trying to refute what that anesthesiologist is saying, but we've NEVER heard about propofol till that nurse came up, and Murray.

IDK. But there could be other reasons this ratner was hired by Michael instead of propofol. Sometimes I wonder if he is telling the truth. After all, like Murray, he's another of those doctors that can't be trusted.

In that cooper interview, he said he didn't want to talk about any of it at that moment. Did he ever speak about it later on?

He did say he helped "take him down" and "bring him back up". IF he's telling the truth, I wonder if his job in the past was "murray's job".....because he does seem really pushy on not talking anything about it. Or could he have been paid to say he gave Michael propofol? From that interview in front of his house, he doesn't live in an L.A. mansion like murray.

Call me crazy. But this IS the conspiracy forum.

I wish I can hear more about this guy besides "I helped take him down and bring him back up". Because everytime, he stops the interview and says, "I really don't want to talk about this." I heard him speak in that interview before his house, and his tone was very bitter.
 
But have we heard about any sleep problems during the history tour?
dont know interms of history but his sleep problems have been well documented over the years

i do know fans who were close to mj and followed previous tours extensivly and they never heard anything about the whole mini clinc while on tour story. ofcourse they werent there living with him but i was intrested to see if they had heard anything. although i find something like that strange interms of it being made up so im more inclinced to believe it was used in the past and didnt just happen for TII
 
What is truth or lie about the health of Michael? It is something sooooooooo private and know about it by other people, really is not 100% reliable. I really do not know what the truth is. :unsure: I'll keep looking at the facts.
 
dont know interms of history but his sleep problems have been well documented over the years

Yes, we all know he had sleep problems. But that doesn't mean Ratner gave him propofol

But I just can't believe Ratner 100% when he says he "brought michael down and took him up".

If he's telling the truth, then okay.

I'm just saying, I would like to hear more from him since he always shuts himself up abruptly. I REALLY hope this man is brought up in trial.
 
you do realize that if he's brought up, it would most probably by and for Murray's defense right?


I would think its a given that he will brought up in trial. I think it would be lawyer malpractice for Murrays defense team not to. Klein also spoke about him using propofol during the History tour? I doubt anyone wants to call Klein, he did the TMZ interview, LKL - not to mention his sleaze factor. Whatever side needs to, could impeach him.

The most important thing is to get to the truth at trial - if there are other doctors who gave him propofol, then lets find out. If they did, they were reckless & this will be a warning to other doctors in the future.
 
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I see your point.

yes we have 3/4 doctors who talked about propofol usage and requests for propofol and perhaps these other doctors is one of the reasons why we are not seeing higher charges in this case against Murray.
 
I see your point.

yes we have 3/4 doctors who talked about propofol usage and requests for propofol and perhaps these other doctors is one of the reasons why we are not seeing higher charges in this case against Murray.

That could be.

The doctor who did the physical too, will be an interesting witness - Dr. David Slavit. He said he passed with flying colors in February. I cannot imagine him not being called.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...M;jsessionid=FB4DB65A7C2A4025F71F8F95C149B065
 
CNN 360 with Anderson Cooper said:
Now, one source said he asked Ratner about all this elaborate equipment, and Ratner said he was there because Michael simply couldn't sleep. Now Ratner went on to say, according to the source, "I take him down at night" -- referring to Jackson -- "and I bring him back up in the morning."

But there could have been a whole bunch of things going through that IV. We heard of fluids. Didn't Murray administer the benzodiazepines through IV? (or at least some) I wonder if Michael received tranquilizers through IV in that time frame and not necessarily Propofol.

I was also just looking at the initial licensing dates of Propofol. In Europe it was first licensed in 1996, meaning the stuff was not exactly all that common yet at the end of the 90ies- thinking of the European Tour arrangements, unless of course someone brought the stuff along- and that takes a bit of work to imagine.
 
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But there could have been a whole bunch of things going through that IV. We heard of fluids. Didn't Murray administer the benzodiazepines through IV? (or at least some) I wonder if Michael received tranquilizers through IV in that time frame and not necessarily Propofol.

I was also just looking at the initial licensing dates of Propofol. In Europe it was first licensed in 1996, meaning the stuff was not exactly all that common yet at the end of the 90ies- thinking of the European Tour arrangements, unless of course someone brought the stuff along- and that takes a bit of work to imagine.


There could have been other things in the IV. I remember reading National Enquirer that sometime when he went to NY he had IV equipment with him then. I don't remember what year that was & it was a tab. Could have been just used to counter dehydration - he went to a hospital for that after the trial according to Dick Gregory.

I think it was common for MJ to have a doctor with him on tour. I think I remember an MTV clip before MJ canceled his tour in 93 & MTV said there was a doctor with him & I believe he was in the vid. I don't have it on tape anymore so can't really be sure at this point.
 
would you need monitors and such if it's just for dehydration?
 
would you need monitors and such if it's just for dehydration?

I don't think so - my daughter had the flu not too long ago & went to the emergency room & had an IV for dehydration. I think they only used the finger monitors and pretty sure they checked her blood pressure.
 
Neil Ratner is a nasty piece of S**t he should be on trial as much as Murray!
 
Yes, we all know he had sleep problems. But that doesn't mean Ratner gave him propofol
no. not saying it does. wasnt ratner also involved in the laswuit in 2000 which was the nreported on again after june where he claimed he gave mj something and he collapsed while on tour.

if theres shown to be a history of using it then yes i guess it could be used by the d.a as something that doesnt support a murder charge in the general sense. (not gross disregard) if murray gave this out of the blue with a motive such as he wasnt going to london. then yeah considering past cases you would be going hummm.butm urray bringing this up ie a history of using it doesnt help him either. cause these others docs gave it to mj and he was still here. so he obviously did something negligent because of what happened.but whether we like it or not some jurrors will be looking at the question of whether mj asked for it and previous history
 
would you need monitors and such if it's just for dehydration?

It would depend how severe the dehydration is. MJ, I think said he'd lose a significant amount of weight after each performance - almost all of which would be fluid loss. A drop of 3-5% in weight due to fluid loss constitutes moderate dehydration, over 5% is severe. Electrolyte imbalances may also occur which need to be corrected carefully and not too quickly. The main parameters which would need monitoring would be pulse (which increases) and blood pressure (which drops) and the easiest way of doing this would be hooking the patient upto a monitor to get a continuous pulse reading and intermittent BP readings. It depends on the Dr too...I suspect if Michael had been my patient I would have been quite cautious and monitored him whilst he was being rehydrated.
 
GUPTA: Well, there's no specific mention of those -- medication Propofol, also know as Diprivan, no specific medication. But it's worth noting that, now we're talking back in '97. At that time at least Propofol wasn't nearly as commonly used as it is today. But there weren't specific drugs mentioned, just that equipment -- Anderson
 
I heard that Mercury used oxygen-it helps lungs of vocalist-I wonder maybe in these tanks wwas oxygen(in Michael's case)
and yes-dehydrating-he told himself that lost like 3-4 kilogrammes for one concert-and this weight is amount of water organizm lost.
 
It would depend how severe the dehydration is. MJ, I think said he'd lose a significant amount of weight after each performance - almost all of which would be fluid loss. A drop of 3-5% in weight due to fluid loss constitutes moderate dehydration, over 5% is severe. Electrolyte imbalances may also occur which need to be corrected carefully and not too quickly. The main parameters which would need monitoring would be pulse (which increases) and blood pressure (which drops) and the easiest way of doing this would be hooking the patient upto a monitor to get a continuous pulse reading and intermittent BP readings. It depends on the Dr too...I suspect if Michael had been my patient I would have been quite cautious and monitored him whilst he was being rehydrated.

intresting thanks for that. also noting when mj collapsed in 95 due to electrolyte imbalance etc. so hydration was a big issue for him and on the night of the 25th when he rang murray to come over mj said he felt dehydrated.mj seemed to suffer from this alot.
 
yeah , he definitely seemed to have de-hydration issues. also, he specifically mentioned sleep issues during the History tour - but he didn't make a big deal about it or present it as being a problem. I have an interview on tape somewhere in my cupboard that Michael gave to molly meldrum during the Australian leg of the tour in '96. Molly said something about MJ's sleeping and MJ goes 'I sleep very little'
 
It would depend how severe the dehydration is. MJ, I think said he'd lose a significant amount of weight after each performance - almost all of which would be fluid loss. A drop of 3-5% in weight due to fluid loss constitutes moderate dehydration, over 5% is severe. Electrolyte imbalances may also occur which need to be corrected carefully and not too quickly. The main parameters which would need monitoring would be pulse (which increases) and blood pressure (which drops) and the easiest way of doing this would be hooking the patient upto a monitor to get a continuous pulse reading and intermittent BP readings. It depends on the Dr too...I suspect if Michael had been my patient I would have been quite cautious and monitored him whilst he was being rehydrated.


Are you a doctor or nurse? And would you know since you're from London or in London - how easy would it be to get propofol?
 
Are you a doctor or nurse? And would you know since you're from London or in London - how easy would it be to get propofol?

I'm a doctor. It is only possible to obtain propofol in the UK from hospital pharmacies - something that Murray would not have been able to do. From there it is either tracked to operating theatres or intensive care - it's use is more restricted here: for example, it is not used for colonoscopy examinations as it is in the US to my knowledge.

It certainly cannot be obtained from community pharmacies. IMO if Murray had planned to use it whilst in London I expect he would have had to bring it with him (risking customs questions if his belongings had been searched - it's not exactly a commonly used medication, he wouldn't have been able to justify it's use and he's not even an anaesthetist).
 
^^
Could he get it shipped? do u know anything about shipping regulations in UK?

I actually have several relatives in Europe we sometimes send medicine (that's not available in where they are) to them from US or from one European country to another. We can easily ship it with a legitimate prescription coming from an actual doctor (providing credentials of the doctor).
 
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what legitimate prescription can be available for personal doctor,not anesthesiolost,no surgeon?
 
^^
Could he get it shipped? do u know anything about shipping regulations in UK?

I'm actually have several relatives in Europe we sometimes send medicine (that's not available in where they are) to them from US or from one European country to another. We can easily ship it with a legitimate prescription coming from an actual doctor (providing credentials of the doctor).

I'm not familiar with shipping regulations regarding propofol I'm afraid. That said, I would hope attempting to get it into the country would cause the authorities to ask questions because it is not a standard 'prescription' medication, being as it's for hospital use only. It's not a cardiac drug, for example, that simply isn't available here so needs to be shipped in from abroad. It would never be prescribed outside of an operating theatre/intensive care environment therefore shipping it for use by a Dr in the community would be, and is, unheard of. To give another example, requesting propofol to be shipped to a private residence is akin to getting an intravenous chemotherapy drug shipped to a non hospital address - it just wouldn't happen here and I suspect would raise alarm bells if an attempt was made to obtain it in this way.

Propofol is so specialised it isn't even on the list of approved controlled medications one can take in and out of the UK.
 
Makes sense. I never tried (or experienced) shipping such specialized (or hospital only) drugs. The stuff we send is definitely standard prescription medicine.

It's so interesting how the regulations are different across countries. Remember in US Murray was having a pharmacy ship it via Fedex to his address. The LAPD checked it and it was completely legal to do so as there was no restrictions.
 
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