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Motown 50 - Yesterday Today Forever

  • Thread starter Dangerous Incorporated
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Dangerous Incorporated said:
I wouldnt have said they were. The Jackson 5 were are more famous for sure so I guess not.
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LOL, yeah they were. But in essence they were as internationally known as the Supremes were being the first black groups to do things that before black acts never did like perform at the Copacabana (Supremes) or headline in Australia (J5).

But the Supremes are still the most successful Motown act.

Let's see:

Supremes: 12 number-one hits in America, they also hit number one once in England and were only the second U.S. based group to do so (not to mention the first girl group), they had their own commercials including Coca Cola, some deodorant and even had their own white bread (all while FLO BALLARD was still a member), they perform to successful audiences not only in the US but also in Europe and Asia, they were one of the first black groups to hit NUMBER ONE on the album chart, plus they had a fourteen-year run on the charts during and after Diana Ross' reign. They had two very successful TV specials and four successful albums with the Temptations. And they were considered the most successful American vocal group of the 1960s, their popularity being second only to the Beatles.

Now:

Jackson 5: 4 number-one hits in America (the first act to have their first four hit number-one), they earned a massive following in Europe, Asia and Australia, they even performed in Africa. Sixteen top forty singles between 1969 and 1974. Their early albums (1969-1971) easily hit the top 5. "I'll Be There" was their most successful single. They hit number-one in England but not as the Jackson 5 or in Motown ("Show You the Way to Go", 1977, Jacksons).

It's surprising but when you compare the Supremes to the Jackson 5, the Supremes' rise was more revolutionary and pioneering for BLACK PEOPLE in entertainment, PERIOD. Actually, the fact that Motown was able to successfully cross over in the 1960s PAVED the way for groups like the Jackson 5. They just broadened Motown's appeal.

I think the Jackson 5 get way too much credit for doing what was already done.
 
Oh I forgot the Jackson 5 also had commercials too (and like the Beatles, had a cartoon show) but this was after Berry Gordy had successfully created what had become "the sound of young America".

Also a record I feel captured the experience of that nickname:
"Dancing in the Street".

This record was not recorded by the Jackson 5 nor the Supremes but by MARTHA AND THE VANDELLAS.

And that record is still influential today.
 
troubleman84 said:
And Berry Gordy didn't say the Jacksons saved Motown from bankruptcy, he said "they were the last big stars to come rolling off the Motown assembly line (1959-1972)" which they were.
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The J5 were overworked and underrated at Motown. Berry gordy was getting ready to shut up shop at Motown when the J5 came along. Most of MJ's mysery started with Motown,. Berry worked the boys like animals and payed them very little. there were successful Motown acts but none of them were discribed as the Black Beatles.,Non of them had the entire world at their feet, non of them were fashion and trend setters. There were no pandemonium. You cannot tell me that berry didn't make money off the hysteria that swept through the entire world with the jackson fevour. There was never a more successful group famewise of moneywise that the j5. Berry still owes them.
How many of these Motown act gt there star in hollywood or imducted into the hall of fame. The J5 did.:D
 
Comparing j5 with supremes is like comparing chalk and cheese. J5 left and went to Sony and carried in with their career that berry tried to dismantle when he took their name and took Jermaone away fron\m the group.
 
Hell that didn't stop them, lol.

Berry Gordy tried to rein control on ALL of his acts and when they chose to rebel, they either got disenfranchised (Mary Wells, Florence Ballard) or they moved on to greater pastures (Marvin, Stevie).

The Jacksons actually did the right thing LEAVING. There was really nothing they could do anymore. Their records at Motown were not selling as well as they did when they first arrived, which is usually what happens to most teen groups or groups who make a big splash on the charts.

The only reason I compared the Supremes to the J5 is to show you that Motown didn't get where they got to because of the boys from Gary, Indiana. They just didn't.
 
troubleman84 said:
Hell that didn't stop them, lol.

Berry Gordy tried to rein control on ALL of his acts and when they chose to rebel, they either got disenfranchised (Mary Wells, Florence Ballard) or they moved on to greater pastures (Marvin, Stevie).

The Jacksons actually did the right thing LEAVING. There was really nothing they could do anymore. Their records at Motown were not selling as well as they did when they first arrived, which is usually what happens to most teen groups or groups who make a big splash on the charts.

The only reason I compared the Supremes to the J5 is to show you that Motown didn't get where they got to because of the boys from Gary, Indiana. They just didn't.
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No, No No, I didn't mean that. I wasn't even trying to say that the Jacksons made Motown. Definately not. Good lord, No. I was in love with a whole host of Motown artist before J5. What I was trying to convey was that Motown was in financial trouble at the time when J5 showed up. berry had decided to hang up his boots and go into movies. he had lost interest in the music business. The J5 came and gave him a jumpstart and secured him financially. Yes. That is what I read anyway. I wasn't there.
 
LOL, that's the point though. Motown was still on and popping. It was just beginning to run its initial course anyway. I agree to an extent had they not signed the Jackson 5, Motown would've gone the way of the sixties but the fact that acts like Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye and Diana Ross (along with the Jackson 5) revitalized Motown's popularity was notable. I still feel the J5 get TOO much credit though. They were all kids when they joined Motown and had no idea they were making history there even if it was brief. The Jackson 5 saved Berry Gordy from actually quitting music, I don't think he was quitting Motown though. Berry had Smokey Robinson ready to take over if he decided to leave at that point. He was actually expanding Motown in California while Motown was in the autumn of their days in Detroit. The confusing thing is Motown was still earning millions of dollars by the time the J5 arrived yet when they DID come out, they were partially responsible for bringing Motown into the seventies. But I cannot say Motown was saved by the Jackson 5 because when the J5's fortunes at Motown dwindled so did Motown. Motown didn't really start to have PROBLEMS until AFTER 1973, 1974 and that's when the Jackson 5's sales were slagging. They were revived a few times, yes, but essentially after the Jackson 5 left, that's when rumors of bankruptcy affected Motown's kingdom. Plus they were no longer the leading sound of music (Philly soul had overpowered it). It wasn't really until the Commodores' pop success and Rick James' funk success that Motown was saved from bankruptcy and carried on into the 1980s. That's partially the reason the first Motown celebratory special (Motown 25) was spectacular.
 
Plus I don't know if I would consider the Jackson 5's music as "the Motown sound" though it was still branded as "the Motown sound". The real "Motown sound" was when acts recorded under the musicianship of the FUNK BROTHERS. The Jackson 5 briefly experienced that with some of its members recording for them like James Jamerson for example (though he wasn't on "I Want You Back" or "ABC", which is a bummer when I think about it).

A whole Jackson 5 album with the Funk Brothers and Holland-Dozier-Holland would've been WONDERFUL!

Like imagine them singing something like "Put Yourself in My Place" or "Nowhere to Run"... OOH WEE!
 
Gee, Timmy, It's like you got a library in your head. Thanks fpr the info. It is a very glamorous story. I love motown, they are my frst love. That is the main reason why I forgive berry for ripping off those artist. he really did have a nice place going.
 
Plus, I think the Jackson 5 actually came to Motown at the WRONG TIME, lol.

When you hear the beginning of a MOTOWN record in the '60s, you would hear Benny Benjamin going DOOM-da-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM... some other percussionist would be banging on the tambourines (Jack Ashford), another would be bumping the bongos (Bongo Brown), you had your bassist (James Jamerson, Bob Babbitt), guitars be melodically driven to the bass and drums (Robert White, Eddie Willis, Joe Messina), occasionally three beautiful female voices would accompany you (the Andantes) and of course the groups would mix soulful singing with pop melodies, and make it catchy and danceable.

Regardless of their success, the Jackson 5 wasn't a product of the Detroit R&B sound as they could've been though they came from Indiana and like Detroit, they were also from the Midwest but I feel had the J5 been around in different years and had signed to Motown in the early sixties, imagine all the great stories we've would've gotten at that time. Them performing at the Motortown Revue with Stevie, Smokey, the Supremes, Marvin and 'em? Performing the same psychedelic soul/funk records like the Temptations? Or any of that?

Personally I think the Motown music of the sixties were better than Motown releases in the seventies and eighties.
 
Plus the Jackson 5 were too funky for Motown, lol. Before they were in Motown, their music had an adult tinge to it (recording doo-wopish styled soul) and on stage, unbridled funk (thanks to MJ's James Brown performances). Motown couldn't really tame their raw sound on stage as they did on record. Motown successfully made them child stars but I feel Motown could've let them experiment. The fact they came off the assembly line that Motown had made it hard for them to really do that.
 
Mr. Bandier owns Motown Records now, right?

Considering he now works for Michael, this could get VERY interestin' :cheeky:
 
troubleman84 said:
Plus the Jackson 5 were too funky for Motown, lol. Before they were in Motown, their music had an adult tinge to it (recording doo-wopish styled soul) and on stage, unbridled funk (thanks to MJ's James Brown performances). Motown couldn't really tame their raw sound on stage as they did on record. Motown successfully made them child stars but I feel Motown could've let them experiment. The fact they came off the assembly line that Motown had made it hard for them to really do that.
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I'd like top know what you think Motown would have been doing with one MICHAEL jackson in th early 60's, guy was born in 58. Anyway, O must give you some rep for the knowledge. you shjould get a degree in The science of Motown.:D
 
MsMo said:
Mr. Bandier owns Motown Records now, right?

Considering he now works for Michael, this could get VERY interestin' :cheeky:
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It's odd, ain't it?
I still feel bad for the countless number of Motown stars in the '60s that didn't get the right amount of royalties for the millions of records they made for the company.
It'll be great if Martin or someone like that looked out for those who are struggling with illnesses but can't be paid because of certain label politics.
 
Datsymay said:
I'd like top know what you think Motown would have been doing with one MICHAEL jackson in th early 60's, guy was born in 58. Anyway, O must give you some rep for the knowledge. you shjould get a degree in The science of Motown.:D
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Let's say the Jackson 5 were signed to Motown in like 1961... and Michael was born in Jackie's birth year.

Matter of fact, let's say:

Jackie (b. 1943)
Tito (b. 1945)
Jermaine (b. 1946)
Marlon (b. 1949)
Michael (b. 1950)

If it had been like that, the Jackson 5 would've recorded songs like "I Want a Love I Can See", "Do You Love Me" and songs like that. Then had Berry Gordy decided to promote the J5 after they reached the level of success they achieved in 1969-70, they would've had a whole album with Smokey Robinson and HDH cooking up songs for Michael to sing with the Andantes and Funk Brothers backing him up. He would've had a more street approach to it like Stevie. Then as Mike reached 21, he would've asked for control like Stevie and got it.

It's just something that could've happened. I just think they came at the wrong time in terms of sound.
 
troubleman84 said:
LOL, I have to do it. I've been a Motown fan since birth.
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Me too, actually in the womb ! I bought my 1st record (45) @ 7 years old by the Four Tops.

My mother and her twin sister thought they were members of the Supremes
:girl_karaoke:

she dated David Ruffin when she was in high school, before he became one of the Temptations...

and the Tempts are in the Hall of Fame too :cheeky:
 
troubleman84 said:
It's odd, ain't it?
I still feel bad for the countless number of Motown stars in the '60s that didn't get the right amount of royalties for the millions of records they made for the company.
It'll be great if Martin or someone like that looked out for those who are struggling with illnesses but can't be paid because of certain label politics.
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Yep, and YEP!
I heard that some of the ones who left Motown and remained successful, including Michael, have helped several of them who fell on real hard times. But yes, that would be GREAT if he did something like that for them...who knows, he may have already on the DL.

Thinks out loud... I can't type worth a darn on this laptop :smilerolleyes:
 
troubleman84 said:
It's odd, ain't it?
I still feel bad for the countless number of Motown stars in the '60s that didn't get the right amount of royalties for the millions of records they made for the company.
It'll be great if Martin or someone like that looked out for those who are struggling with illnesses but can't be paid because of certain label politics.
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Martin doesn't own Motown. He bought it for his company, but he has now left it to work with MJ. I guess MJ would love to own it though. I think Michael would be the best opne to do so, cause he would see to ot that Motown stars are prperly looked after. I understand that he paid part of the funeral expenses for David Ruffin, so I feel that MJ would do what is right. i hope he gets it.:D
 
troubleman84 said:
Haha, that's cute. :)

My dad and some of his friends thought they were the Temptations. :lol:
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Yeah, Motown was da stuff back in da day. Talk about mania. My mother used to go watch
those acts perform at this club called the 20 Grand and leave me outside locked in the car, supposedly asleep. I tell ya, I saw some of the groupies and craziness. She'd get locked up for that today, but back then I could even go into the bars with her @ 4 & 5 years old. I'd just sit back and watch them all mimicking the Motown artists playing on the Juke Box.

:lol:
 
MsMo said:
Yeah, Motown was da stuff back in da day. Talk about mania. My mother used to go watch
those acts perform at this club called the 20 Grand and leave me outside locked in the car, supposedly asleep. I tell ya, I saw some of the groupies and craziness. She'd get locked up for that today, but back then I could even go into the bars with her @ 4 & 5 years old. I'd just sit back and watch them all mimicking the Motown artists playing on the Juke Box.

:lol:
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:lol: The sixties were probably the wildest decade to experience great music. :) I can imagine myself being a child during that period and lip-syncing one of Marvin's records. :lol:
 
Datsymay said:
Martin doesn't own Motown. He bought it for his company, but he has now left it to work with MJ. I guess MJ would love to own it though. I think Michael would be the best opne to do so, cause he would see to ot that Motown stars are prperly looked after. I understand that he paid part of the funeral expenses for David Ruffin, so I feel that MJ would do what is right. i hope he gets it.:D
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Oh, okay, I thought he bought it for himself.

Yep, Michael definitely would.

Me too, one never knows That would be marvelous!!! :yes:
 
MsMo said:
Yeah, Motown was da stuff back in da day. Talk about mania. My mother used to go watch
those acts perform at this club called the 20 Grand and leave me outside locked in the car, supposedly asleep. I tell ya, I saw some of the groupies and craziness. She'd get locked up for that today, but back then I could even go into the bars with her @ 4 & 5 years old. I'd just sit back and watch them all mimicking the Motown artists playing on the Juke Box.

:lol:
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: Taking about back in the day, I must have had my first drink in the pub at age 9, sitting on a stool when my feet couldn't even touch the ground. Non of the stupid laws that they have in place today.:D
 
troubleman84 said:
:lol: The sixties were probably the wildest decade to experience great music. :) I can imagine myself being a child during that period and lip-syncing one of Marvin's records. :lol:
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It really was, and that was me! :yes:

I was born in '61 to a 15 year old mother, so I couldn't help but listen to Marvin, Smokey and all the rest, pretty much 'round da clock

:lol:
 
Datsymay said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl: Taking about back in the day, I must have had my first drink in the pub at age 9, sitting on a stool when my feet couldn't even touch the ground. Non of the stupid laws that they have in place today.:D
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:rofl: Okay, you got me beat, I sat on the stools, but I didn't drink! :rofl:
 
MsMo said:
It really was, and that was me! :yes:

I was born in '61 to a 15 year old mother, so I couldn't help but listen to Marvin, Smokey and all the rest, pretty much 'round da clock

:lol:
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Wow, you were right in the middle of the Motown revolution for real! :lol: :D
 
troubleman84 said:
I'm part of Generation Y, the generation that rediscovered Motown. :listeningtomusic:
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Y???

Good Lawd! I figured you for an X-G

You sound like an "Ole Soul"...a very wise young man.

I just love it when Young people embrace their history :kickass:
 
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