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MJ’s missed opportunities

filmandmusic said:
What about singing Who’s loving you live on one of his later tours as a nod to the past!
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I'd rather have one of the early ballads :)

Disclaimer: since I'm not a global superstar or a musical genius I'm not going to tell Michael how to run his live shows. But I'd still like an early ballad or two to be on the set list. Not talking about the J5 medley.
 
zinniabooklover said:
I'd rather have one of the early ballads :)

Disclaimer: since I'm not a global superstar or a musical genius I'm not going to tell Michael how to run his live shows. But I'd still like an early ballad or two to be on the set list. Not talking about the J5 medley.
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What do you mean exactly? Who’s loving you was the earliest ballad he did as it was the B Side of I Want You Back in 1969, it can’t come earlier than that. I’m probably misunderstanding.
 
filmandmusic said:
What do you mean exactly? Who’s loving you was the earliest ballad he did as it was the B Side of I Want You Back in 1969, it can’t come earlier than that. I’m probably misunderstanding.
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oh, sorry! I don't think of Who's Lovin' You as a ballad. To me a ballad is more smooth and low-key, WLY is loaded with passion and soul. Can't really explain, just my own way of labelling stuff. I love ballads but they don't usually blow my world to pieces!

Other interpretations are available! :D

EDIT - also, I knew the Smokey version long before I heard the J5 version. Smokey's version is surely not a ballad? Not in my world, anyway! Didn't hear J5 version until 1970, long, long time after I already knew how Smokey sang it.
 
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zinniabooklover said:
EDIT - also, I knew the Smokey version long before I heard the J5 version. Smokey's version is surely not a ballad?
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I have no idea, I never heard the original
zinniabooklover said:
Not in my world, anyway! Didn't hear J5 version until 1970, long, long time after I already knew how Smokey sang it.
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I just love how literally everybody associates it with MJ and not the original singer 😃
 
filmandmusic said:
Nitpicker
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Nope! I bet if you asked a UK Northern Soul fan they would name Smokey's version rather than Michael's.

Anyway, I'm busy! I'm trying to do a Motown set list for Michael and it's blimmin' hard. I do not want a job as a tour manager, that's for sure!
 
zinniabooklover said:
Nope! I bet if you asked a UK Northern Soul fan they would name Smokey's version rather than Michael's.

Anyway, I'm busy! I'm trying to do a Motown set list for Michael and it's blimmin' hard. I do not want a job as a tour manager, that's for sure!
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Just listened to Smokey’s version. Lovely too. 😍
 
I think the biggest thing was he should have never fired frank dileo. Not having constant management throughout those dark times in his life in the 90s and beyond made things much worse for him. But if we're gonna get nit-picky I'll go in order (not going into the allegations bc thats a whole diff. conversation).

If I could choose, I think Michael should have:

Thriller era:
- A live broadcast of a one-night only show for Thriller in early 1984 (pepsi accident aside)
- Put out an EP in 1985 of songs that were almost on thriller but got cut. Like 5-6 songs. As a way to tide over audiences until his next album was finished.
- Had a larger band for the Victory Tour. And a better setlist

Bad Era:
- Released a live album on VHS/CD in 1989 using the 35mm footage of the BWT from Europe and/or the US. as a means to boost sales while he worked on another album.

Dangerous Era:
- Performed RTT during the Bucharest Broadcast.
- recorded the '92 Japan shows for a compilation live album/VHS in mid '93.
- a short US leg in early '93 after the Superbowl & Oprah interview.

HIStory Era:
- Had at least one or two "pop" songs on the album for commercial radio-play. He had YANA and Scream, but an upbeat classic MJ song for casual listeners would have been a smart move (ik it goes against the concept of the album but still)
- rescheduled HBO One-Night Only for February '96. Giving him time to recover and put on the show of a lifetime.
- He should have kept the VMAs hairstyle for the videos in 95/96. I do not like the e-boy cut he has for childhood and YANA.
- re-recorded all thriller/otw playback for the HWT so he's not 38 lip synching to his 21 y/o voice.
- At least 6 shows in the US (not counting Hawaii) just to help sales in the US/public opinion (remember they haven't seen him in concert since 1989 or 95 in this universe so at this point he's a name over an artist so concerts would do wonders)
- Taken his time with BOTDF, and released in late 97 or early 98. And have Teddy Riley there for the whole thing to allow for consistent production. and 0 remixes.
- in 98 he should have tried to make a purple rain-type movie using his music as a way of telling the story from HIStory, get Spielberg to direct and boom, oscar nominated movie and MJ is seen as a movie star (assuming the movie is good and he is a good actor)

Invincible/early 2000s era:
- stay away from Rabbi Shmuley and Uri Geller entirely.
- taken one or two songs from Pharrell for Invincible
- Invincible was ready to go by early 2001, all the bad songs on the album came from that summer. So release it like June 2001.
- Perform 'Music and Me' at the 30th anniversary show.
- Perform at the 2002 Grammys (Whatever happens or speechless) and perform with a live microphone.
- Do a series of concerts in 2002 to promote Invincible.

Late 2000s/TII
- re-record select tracks for thriller 25 using a modern production style. No fergie, maybe some Kanye.
- Join Chris Brown on stage for the WMA in 07 for the Thriller dance only, wearing the Jacket.
- Find a producer and stick with them for working on tracks.
- With frank dileo still here in this alternate world, a competent doctor gets hired and Michael gets adequate medical treatment
- Not let AEG fire his band for TII, mix the old crew with the new one for a fresh sound but people who know what MJ wants

I'm not gettin into TII either because thats just one big rabbit hole but y'all get the picture.

I'll fight on any of these opinions lets do it!
 
Not being on an iconic compilation album like Tony Bennets duets or Sergio Mendes Timeless in 2006. Or being a judge on American Idol.
 
AlwaysThere said:
That would’ve been a death knell. I’m thrilled MJ never did that.
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zinniabooklover said:
Gotta say, Mr JT, I agree with alwaysthere about this. I couldn't work out if this was one of your wild jokes but I can't get on board with this idea at all. 🤨
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For one episode, I genuinely think it would be neat. It's not a high priority though.

So you think you can dance might be better actually.
 
He actually regressed to a childlike state during the late 80s. While Off The Wall and Thriller were adult with adult themes and videos henthen got to do Captain EO which was not only completely derivative, it also doesn’t hold up special effects wise but the main problem was that it was completely made for kids. He then did Moonwalker again aimed at kids and while that was a fine collection of video clips in itself it was a missed opportunity to put himself out there as a serious actor with ambition.
His entire attempt of appearing more tough while making kids movies was just weird at the age he had at the time.

But I can’t dismiss Moonwalker in its entirety because like I said the videos like Smooth Criminal, Come Together, Leave Me Alone are absolute fire. Speed Demon is also fun once the dance off starts.
 
biggest missed opportunity:
Thriller World Tour - At the time he had enough hits to do a solo tour.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
For one episode, I genuinely think it would be neat. It's not a high priority though.

So you think you can dance might be better actually.
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Yeah, one episode would’ve been fire. I feel like a permanent position is usually reserved for artists who are reaching the end of their relevancy though, and MJ never really seemed to be.
 
FMJP said:
I think the biggest thing was he should have never fired frank dileo. Not having constant management throughout those dark times in his life in the 90s and beyond made things much worse for him. But if we're gonna get nit-picky I'll go in order (not going into the allegations bc thats a whole diff. conversation).

If I could choose, I think Michael should have:

Thriller era:
- A live broadcast of a one-night only show for Thriller in early 1984 (pepsi accident aside)
- Put out an EP in 1985 of songs that were almost on thriller but got cut. Like 5-6 songs. As a way to tide over audiences until his next album was finished.
- Had a larger band for the Victory Tour. And a better setlist

Bad Era:
- Released a live album on VHS/CD in 1989 using the 35mm footage of the BWT from Europe and/or the US. as a means to boost sales while he worked on another album.

Dangerous Era:
- Performed RTT during the Bucharest Broadcast.
- recorded the '92 Japan shows for a compilation live album/VHS in mid '93.
- a short US leg in early '93 after the Superbowl & Oprah interview.

HIStory Era:
- Had at least one or two "pop" songs on the album for commercial radio-play. He had YANA and Scream, but an upbeat classic MJ song for casual listeners would have been a smart move (ik it goes against the concept of the album but still)
- rescheduled HBO One-Night Only for February '96. Giving him time to recover and put on the show of a lifetime.
- He should have kept the VMAs hairstyle for the videos in 95/96. I do not like the e-boy cut he has for childhood and YANA.
- re-recorded all thriller/otw playback for the HWT so he's not 38 lip synching to his 21 y/o voice.
- At least 6 shows in the US (not counting Hawaii) just to help sales in the US/public opinion (remember they haven't seen him in concert since 1989 or 95 in this universe so at this point he's a name over an artist so concerts would do wonders)
- Taken his time with BOTDF, and released in late 97 or early 98. And have Teddy Riley there for the whole thing to allow for consistent production. and 0 remixes.
- in 98 he should have tried to make a purple rain-type movie using his music as a way of telling the story from HIStory, get Spielberg to direct and boom, oscar nominated movie and MJ is seen as a movie star (assuming the movie is good and he is a good actor)

Invincible/early 2000s era:
- stay away from Rabbi Shmuley and Uri Geller entirely.
- taken one or two songs from Pharrell for Invincible
- Invincible was ready to go by early 2001, all the bad songs on the album came from that summer. So release it like June 2001.
- Perform 'Music and Me' at the 30th anniversary show.
- Perform at the 2002 Grammys (Whatever happens or speechless) and perform with a live microphone.
- Do a series of concerts in 2002 to promote Invincible.

Late 2000s/TII
- re-record select tracks for thriller 25 using a modern production style. No fergie, maybe some Kanye.
- Join Chris Brown on stage for the WMA in 07 for the Thriller dance only, wearing the Jacket.
- Find a producer and stick with them for working on tracks.
- With frank dileo still here in this alternate world, a competent doctor gets hired and Michael gets adequate medical treatment
- Not let AEG fire his band for TII, mix the old crew with the new one for a fresh sound but people who know what MJ wants

I'm not gettin into TII either because thats just one big rabbit hole but y'all get the picture.

I'll fight on any of these opinions lets do it!
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Many of your points were not really missed opportunities, for example:

Not putting out an EP in 1985 of leftover songs (from the 'Thriller' album) actually helped him to hype up audience's anticipation for his upcoming 'BAD' album.

There were wardrobe malfunction issues during the 'Remember The Time' rehearsal, so performing that song only for one show, especially for a TV Broadcast show, this would have been extremely risky due to such issues happening again.

The vast majority of songs of the first disc (from the 'HIStory' album) were already upbeat pop songs for casual listeners.

So, including upbeat pop songs for casual listeners also on the second disc would not have been really a smart move.

There was a main reason why he did not perform in US (mainland) during the HIStory era.

Shows in the US (mainland) at that time would have triggered more negative publicity about him (due to his recent 1993 sexual scandal there).
 
Hot_Street said:
biggest missed opportunity:
Thriller World Tour - At the time he had enough hits to do a solo tour.
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If I recall correctly, it was Joseph who pressured him into the Victory tour, wanting to keep all his sons together instead of having his lead singer split apart. Only God knows whether it was for personal or financial reasons (maybe a combo of both), but Michael caved, and that's why no tour was done for Thriller.
 
Moviefan2k4 said:
If I recall correctly, it was Joseph who pressured him into the Victory tour, wanting to keep all his sons together instead of having his lead singer split apart. Only God knows whether it was for personal or financial reasons (maybe a combo of both), but Michael caved, and that's why no tour was done for Thriller.
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Michael had his reasons, but when you think about the fact that the tour was named after a Jacksons album and not after Thriller, which was on the verge of becoming the best-selling album of all time, it seems a bit strange.
 
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- Not releasing Working Day and Night and Get On The Floor as singles. Both had potential to be top 10 hits.
- Not performing songs like Lady In My Life, Liberian Girl, Give In To Me, Who Is It live.
- Mostly ignoring the Dangerous Album on the Dangerous Tour.
- Not doing an acoustic MTV unplugged style concert.
- Not performing other Jackson 5 songs on his solo tours. Performing the same 3 songs during the Jackson 5 medley got repetitive and boring.
- Never performing Scream with Janet or Just Good Friends with Stevie Wonder.
- Not performing any songs from Invincible during his 2002 performance at American Bandstand. I know that Sony dropped the ball on Invincible when it comes to promoting it, but so did Michael.
- Not releasing Invincible in 1999, as it was originally planned. I believe that Invincible would have been a far better album had it been released in 1999.
- Releasing the awful remixes on BOTDF album. Instead of the remixes, Michael should have released songs like In The Back and Much Too Soon on BOTDF.
- Awful remixes on Thriller 25. Thriller 40 despite being underwhelming was a million times better release than Thriller 25. Some of the songs we got with Thriller 40 should have been released with Thriller 25.
 
filmandmusic said:
While Off The Wall and Thriller were adult with adult themes and videos henthen got to do Captain EO which was not only completely derivative, it also doesn’t hold up special effects wise but the main problem was that it was completely made for kids.
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Leave Captain EO alone. It's catching strays for no reason. I won't defend Moonwalker, it's a VHS Commercial Pack for MJ and not much else but it was successful. But Captain EO understood the assignment well. It was neat.
 
I think up onto the release of Thriller MJ did everything right.
- Not doing a Thriller World Tour was a huge missed opportunity. It was his biggest selling album, he was extremely famous and popular. Doing a Victory tour was worse than doing no tour at all, because it was too small and not leaving any impact. It kind of downgraded his popularity. It wouldn't have mattered much if his brothers were part of the tour or not. The setlist could have been a little more exciting that the one he used for Victory. Leave out "Lovely One", "Things I Do For You" and at least one Jermaine song and put in "Thriller", "Lady In My Life" and "PYT".
- MJ should have performed at Live Aid in some way.
- A more serious attempt on doing a movie would have been nice. Moonwalker is cute, but way too unfocused and childish. With a full length "Smooth Criminal" movie MJ could have gained some more respect. It was the Bad era that made him appear freaky to many people and the Moonwalker-movie shows us why.
- I wish MJ performed more Dangerous songs on his Dangerous Tour. "Give In To Me", "Who Is It", "Remember The Time", maybe "Gone Too Soon". Of course live, no lipsyncing.
- The way the Chandler-case was handled was wrong. A missed opportunity to not settle it in court and speak publicly about it.
- Of course Blood On The Dancefloor should not have been a remix album. Maybe a special edition of HIStory would have been better.
- The lame execution of the History World Tour saddens me. A big missed opportunity here.
- MJ & Friends concerts could have been better. You feel that after 1995 MJ really didn't like to perform anymore.
- Invincible could have been better. MJ was not ready to promote the album at that time. Either release it sooner or later, maybe 2002, since he was in better shape there.
- In general it was a missed opportunity that MJ was not being more open publicly. Come to Talk Shows, talk about Vitiligo, the accusations, childhood struggles, Lisa and Debbie etc., but also about creative things. The fact MJ tried to be mysterious was not a good idea after the 80s.
 
filmandmusic said:
He actually regressed to a childlike state during the late 80s. While Off The Wall and Thriller were adult with adult themes and videos henthen got to do Captain EO which was not only completely derivative, it also doesn’t hold up special effects wise but the main problem was that it was completely made for kids. He then did Moonwalker again aimed at kids and while that was a fine collection of video clips in itself it was a missed opportunity to put himself out there as a serious actor with ambition.
His entire attempt of appearing more tough while making kids movies was just weird at the age he had at the time.

But I can’t dismiss Moonwalker in its entirety because like I said the videos like Smooth Criminal, Come Together, Leave Me Alone are absolute fire. Speed Demon is also fun once the dance off starts.
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100% agree with this, well 99%, I think for Captain Eo it's normal because it's a Disney project, so he didn't have too much choice, I would say that this attempt to look tough is itself very childish at his age; there are also the sound of Bad who was somehow very immature, very chaotic, with a lack of direction, specially in comparaison to the maturity of his previous album.

For his missing opportunity, I would say first to don't care enough of himself, I will put the blame also to CBS for that, Michael was extremely sensitive about his appearance, it's not a secret, the recent leak interview have shown that just after Victory he was happy now with his face after his acne problem, that he will do his best to help kids with these problems (specially kids from show business), but 2 years later, maybe less, he has a strong vitiligo and lupus, so for him that would have very painful to live again that. His agent, managers, CBS etc...should have make sure that everything was alright for him at this moment, and not put him in exposition before he was ready.

Also in this context, avoid surgeries with Bad, it was the beginning of the problems, he should have revealed his illness to the public, if Michael didn't want because it's personnal, fine, but he should have put a darker make up to be close to Thriller to avoid controversial critics in his music video and the records covers, CBS should have forced him to accept that.

Don't make 2 years tour and stop the tours in general, he hated that, he have more or less fired his brothers for 6 months tours in USA, but was forced to make 4 times longers tour when he was older, that have simply destroyed his life, he should have put on video Victory or accepted Dileo proposition in 85 to continue the tour in Europe in solo and commercial in video this one (if he has some problems with his brothers for contract etc...), Michael Thriller was at his peak and he should have milked that.

After the Thriller music video, he should have movies, specially before vitiligo etc...he have various projects, never understand why that didn't works, specially street dandy, it was clearly his goal and was really passionnated about that, he would have shown his talent for soundtrack, who is very different that a pop album.

He should have put a solo album in 85, agree with a previous message, it was too long to wait 1987, he should have put unreleased Thriller tracks, they were amazing, I don't know who have put in his head that he was overexposed but it was dumb, and continue to be very funky, not onely agressive voice like since Bad.

He should have sung Thriller and State of Shock during Victory, replace Jagger and Price with other rocker or horror actor if they didnt want to comeback, he should have participated more to the Victory album, he could have the best selling album in solo and with the group.

Don't leave Quincy and his brothers, at least not definitely like he have done, specially because he has nothing bette than them.

That about his personnal life, but I think he should have married way sooner, if the Ola romance was true, his entourages should have put all their powers to conclude with a wedding with her, specially because he feel lonely and that would have avoided weird theory about him, he should have avoided kids, yes I know he loved them, but kids from celebrities, kid actors or singers and his family was enough (like during Thriller).

It's not his fault, but it's sad that his Sega game projecr didn't work, it was a very cool idea.

My list is already long, but for me after Captain Eo, all his career is a missing opportunity, it's sad because he could have avoided that easily, it's some way he would have been better for his reputation and his life, if he have done in semi-retreat after Captain Eo, more or less like Lionel Richie.
 
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