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Mj's Invincible Album

Hazard

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I just wanna know why this album is so underrated, I mean sure it wasn't one of his best albums but still it had some amazing songs and can still outclass many albums by musicians of today such as Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga
 
I do think it's underrated, but also it is imo his weakest album and I am including MICHAEL in this discussion. But by all means it does not mean it is not a very good album.

IMHO, out of those 16 songs he had his worst genre songs by Michael's standards that is:
dance song - - Heartbreaker - over produced
rock Privacy
love ballad -You are My Life
inspirational Cry

In addition, The Lost Children is a sweet song, but I really believe it didn't belong in the album.

So there are still 11 songs that are really great, but I've never disliked so many songs in an MJ album, and I believe it somehow tainted the outcome of the entire project.:no:

Also, I do love the fact that he had love ballads, but he just overloaded with those in this album.

I just don't understand why he didn't include songs like Another day and STTR in this album. I'm sure there are more left out that could have been incredible in this album.

That's why I think it is better to have less songs that are good quality than more songs that are going to dilute the whole album.

And last but not least, the dispute between Michael and Mottola (Sony) didn't help matters. We only got one video. The promotion was horrendous as we all know so that didn't help this album's reputation. I think if Butterflies, Whaterver Happens, Threathened would have been properly promoted, it would have really helped this album.

Again, it is still a solid, very good album and def.better than many artists of today, (and pls. let's not compare Bieber with Michael as there is absolutely NO comparison there). But if we compare it to Michael's standards it's not his best work.
 
It is underated, but it has been getting props...In 2009 readers of Billboard magazine voted Invincible as the best album of the decade, from their readers poll...I'd say Invincible is easily one of the greatest albums of the 2000's..It has some very very strong songs...I think the fact there was only 1 music video, and no World Tour which greatly affected how people see it...I think Invincible easily crushes anything that's coming out today, for sure.

You can't believe it, you can't conceive it
And you can't touch me, 'cause I'm untouchable
And I know you hate it, and you can't take it
You'll never break me, 'cause I'm unbreakable

:punk:
 
You know i dont like Whatever Happens as much as some of the other songs. If promoted: Threatened, Speechless, 2000 Watts and Unbreakable could easy be the greatest singles ive heard in a long time.

I do think Heartbreaker was over produced, but maybe thats what MJ was getting at.
 
Invincible is MJ's best album. He thought so, too.
 
tricia70 said:
I do think it's underrated, but also it is imo his weakest album and I am including MICHAEL in this discussion.
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lol wow... For your posthumous album to be stronger than the one that you, actually, had a personal hand is beyond bad.
 
LLCz said:
Invincible is MJ's best album. He thought so, too.
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When did he say that? If it was at the time of the albums release then yeah he would say something like that to help promote the album. He wasn't gonna go on interviews and say ''Oh this is a good album but it's not as good as my previous albums'', he's gonna say ''This is my best album ever'' to get people excited into buying it

I'm sure that Michael loved all of his albums equally and they all had a special place in his heart.
 
analogue said:
When did he say that? If it was at the time of the albums release then yeah he would say something like that to help promote the album. He wasn't gonna go on interviews and say ''Oh this is a good album but it's not as good as my previous albums'', he's gonna say ''This is my best album ever'' to get people excited into buying it

I'm sure that Michael loved all of his albums equally and they all had a special place in his heart.
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I definitely read it somewhere. He said it is his best album ever and he said something to the effect that he poured all his heart and soul into it, and that he fought hard to get in all 16 songs as Sony wanted to include only 10 or 12.
 
It's always bothered me that there are only two songs solely written by MJ on the album (Speechless and The Lost Children). The best songs on all his previous albums were the ones he wrote and produced by himself. Michael is a brilliant and vastly underrated songwriter and the lack of this on Invincible always gave me the impression that he wasn't as inspired to write as he once was.

Many of the co-written tracks sound largely devoid of MJ's creative input. I remember Rodney Jerkins saying in an interview once about how MJ would go away for weeks at a time and come back and say "what have you got for me?". That doesn't sound like the same man who was once so committed to his art that he used to sleep on the studio floor.

J Randy Tarraborelli wrote that Michael was presented with YAML, fell in love with it, changed the title from "You Are My World" to "You Are My Life" and added himself as a co-writer. Dr Freeze has said that he pretty much wrote all the backing music and lyrics for Break of Dawn and MJ came in and added his vocal and yet Michael is still listed as a co-writer of the song. I wouldn't be surprised if he had little to do with Whatever Happens and Don't Walk Away as well. They just sound like songs written by outside songwriters. They don't sound like they're written by MJ.

This is a far cry from the genius songwriting on Dangerous and HIStory. You can FEEL MJ's passion on songs like TDCAU, Who Is It, Stranger In Moscow and Will You Be There. Only MJ could write songs like that. My favourite two songs on Invincible have always been Speechless and The Lost Children because they're the only two on the album which sound as if they came from Michael.
 
MattyJam said:
I remember Rodney Jerkins saying in an interview once about how MJ would go away for weeks at a time and come back and say "what have you got for me?". That doesn't sound like the same man who was once so committed to his art that he used to sleep on the studio floor.

J Randy Tarraborelli wrote that Michael was presented with YAML, fell in love with it, changed the title from "You Are My World" to "You Are My Life" and added himself as a co-writer. Dr Freeze has said that he pretty much wrote all the backing music and lyrics for Break of Dawn and MJ came in and added his vocal and yet Michael is still listed as a co-writer of the song.
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and do you really believe this?
 
MattyJam said:
It's always bothered me that there are only two songs solely written by MJ on the album (Speechless and The Lost Children). The best songs on all his previous albums were the ones he wrote and produced by himself. Michael is a brilliant and vastly underrated songwriter and the lack of this on Invincible always gave me the impression that he wasn't as inspired to write as he once was.

Many of the co-written tracks sound largely devoid of MJ's creative input. I remember Rodney Jerkins saying in an interview once about how MJ would go away for weeks at a time and come back and say "what have you got for me?". That doesn't sound like the same man who was once so committed to his art that he used to sleep on the studio floor.

J Randy Tarraborelli wrote that Michael was presented with YAML, fell in love with it, changed the title from "You Are My World" to "You Are My Life" and added himself as a co-writer. Dr Freeze has said that he pretty much wrote all the backing music and lyrics for Break of Dawn and MJ came in and added his vocal and yet Michael is still listed as a co-writer of the song. I wouldn't be surprised if he had little to do with Whatever Happens and Don't Walk Away as well. They just sound like songs written by outside songwriters. They don't sound like they're written by MJ.

This is a far cry from the genius songwriting on Dangerous and HIStory. You can FEEL MJ's passion on songs like TDCAU, Who Is It, Stranger In Moscow and Will You Be There. Only MJ could write songs like that. My favourite two songs on Invincible have always been Speechless and The Lost Children because they're the only two on the album which sound as if they came from Michael.
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I agree. Even the co-written tracks on Dangerous and HIStory i still feel that MJ had alot to do with those songs.
 
lucilla said:
and do you really believe this?
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Yes I do. I don't think these songs sound like MJ's style of writing. MJ couldn't even remember the name of Whatever Happens in a radio interview back in 2001.

I don't think Michael's heart was in Invincible and unfortunately it shows in the music. The album does have it's strong points, vocally it's definately on the money. I am also quite fond of some of the Darkchild tracks (especially Threatened and YRMW) but overall I feel it's easily MJ's weakest album.

I really don't believe he put in the same effort and love into creating it compared to his previous albums. I think he knew he had to deliver one more album to Sony and he hired a bunch of outside songwriters to do most of the leg work.

analogue said:
I agree. Even the co-written tracks on Dangerous and HIStory i still feel that MJ had alot to do with those songs.
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Definately. Look at the tracks he did with Jam & Lewis on HIStory. Songs like Tabloid Junkie and Scream have MJ's signature sound all over them. You can tell he was heavily involved musically (the awesome beatboxing on TJ for example) and lyrically.

By contrast I wouldn't be at all surpised if he didn't contribute all that much to the co-written songs on Invincible. The only songs which feel 100% legitimately MJ on that album are Speechless and The Lost Children.
 
That was Invincible's main problem. It didn't have much of MJ's signature sound. I know that people will say ''He was trying something different'' but every album he does always sounds different from the last one. Dangerous sounds nothing like Bad and HIStory sounds nothing like Dangerous but each album still had that classic Michael Jackson signature sound. Invincible was missing that for the most part
 
I think it is tainted by the circumstances surrounding it. Sony dropping the ball on promotion really turned off many fans to the whole project, and it kept the general public from discovering it. Had it had a full run of singles and music videos, I think it would be looked on much more fondly.
 
MattyJam said:
Yes I do. I don't think these songs sound like MJ's style of writing. MJ couldn't even remember the name of Whatever Happens in a radio interview back in 2001.

I don't think Michael's heart was in Invincible and unfortunately it shows in the music. The album does have it's strong points, vocally it's definately on the money. I am also quite fond of some of the Darkchild tracks (especially Threatened and YRMW) but overall I feel it's easily MJ's weakest album.

I really don't believe he put in the same effort and love into creating it compared to his previous albums. I think he knew he had to deliver one more album to Sony and he hired a bunch of outside songwriters to do most of the leg work.


Definately. Look at the tracks he did with Jam & Lewis on HIStory. Songs like Tabloid Junkie and Scream have MJ's signature sound all over them. You can tell he was heavily involved musically (the awesome beatboxing on TJ for example) and lyrically.

By contrast I wouldn't be at all surpised if he didn't contribute all that much to the co-written songs on Invincible. The only songs which feel 100% legitimately MJ on that album are Speechless and The Lost Children.
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It's not rare to forget things like that.

It's ok that you don't like the album for all the co-writers in it but you when you rather believe J Randy Tarraborelli for the sake of that argument and take away from MJ his credits, then I have to say that I disagree.

I don't find the songs to be completely alien from MJ's lyrics. MJ himself can notice when something like that happens, if he wanted to fool us so much.

What I'm saying is yes, MJ had more co-writers that usual, but that's all. I don't think he tried to fool us by adding his name on the songs.
 
I'm not massively keen on Invincible. I seem to lean more in the direction of MJ's work up to and including Thriller anyway, and for me, Vince loses yet more of the remaining properties that keep me properly interested in his post-Thriller material whilst not really losing any of that off-putting vitriol and sterility that marr my enjoyment of the likes of Dangerous and HIStory.

That's not to say that I don't give it a listen sometimes. I like YRMW, Cry and Heaven Can Wait in particular, but even those aren't amazing songs by MJ's prior standards. So I don't really see the case for Invincible being an underrated album. I actually think the 2/5, 3/5 kind of reviews that Vince received back in '01 really hit the nail on the head, actually.

MJ was an amazing talent but he's only human and is allowed a duff album. Vince was pretty much it for me.
 
MattyJam said:
My favourite two songs on Invincible have always been Speechless and The Lost Children because they're the only two on the album which sound as if they came from Michael.
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Speecchless, The Lost Children and Unbreakable were Michael's favourites on the album too.

Me, I think that Invincible is underrated just because everyone couldn't help but compare it with Michael's previous albums.If they wouldn't do that and they'd simply enjoy the album, and listen to Michael's vocals and rendition, they could see the maturity and soulfulness in this album.

I very much like the album, I listen to it intensevly and don't skip any track.
 
Personally I think it's hard to make a case for almost any album that sells 10 million copies as underrated. It's received a lot of attention that so many amazing, but much lower-selling, albums haven't. I can't even bring myself to say that it's underrated in the context of MJ's catalogue, really. Again, it's had a lot of attention paid to it, partially as it was MJ's last and also because of the whole 'bad promotion by Sony'/Mottola rift factors.
 
ChickenMcNuggets said:
Personally I think it's hard to make a case for almost any album that sells 10 million copies as underrated. It's received a lot of attention that so many amazing, but much lower-selling, albums haven't. I can't even bring myself to say that it's underrated in the context of MJ's catalogue, really. Again, it's had a lot of attention paid to it, partially as it was MJ's last and also because of the whole 'bad promotion by Sony'/Mottola rift factors.
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Exactly.

There is no way anybody could say Invincible was underrated. An underrated Michael Jackson album would be Forever Michael. There's fans on this very board who've probably never even heard songs like You Are There or One Day In Your Life. Triumph and Destiny are also criminally overlooked and underrated by a huge percentage of Michael's fanbase who seem to think that his career started with Off The Wall.
 
MattyJam said:
Exactly.

There is no way anybody could say Invincible was underrated. An underrated Michael Jackson album would be Forever Michael. There's fans on this very board who've probably never even heard songs like You Are There or One Day In Your Life. Triumph and Destiny are also criminally overlooked and underrated by a huge percentage of Michael's fanbase who seem to think that his career started with Off The Wall.
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I agree with you that Destiny and Triumph are indeed overlooked by a big percentage of Michael's fanbase. Many people don't acknowledge the works Michael did with his brothers are also part of the Michael Jackson legacy. I consider Destiny a milestone album. An album that Michael and his brothers enjoyed full creative freedom.

Invincible sells more than 10 million copies worldwide. It's a sucess by all means. However, it's the one Michael Jackson album (except Music & Me and Forever, Michael) largely forgotten and it really shouldn't.

I agree the amount of Michael's creative inputs are the least in Invincible, when compared to everything he did since Thriller. Is it because of the changes in his personal life? I don't know. Invincible is the first album he released after becoming a father though.

With that said, if I ignore the album credit and just hit play. I found myself enjoying the album tremendously. The quality of Michael's vocals alone is enough to make this album a true must-have for all music fans. The maturity and soulfulness in Michael's voice is beautifully captured in songs like Butterflies and Whatever Happens. This album showcase what a skillful vocalist Michael Jackson was.

This album is Michael's lengthiest album. But, there isn't any truly dull moment, IMHO. I enjoy the journey Michael takes me. I consider songs like Unbreakable, You Rock My World, Speechless, Butterflies, Whatever Happens and Threatened among the best songs Michael ever recorded.

The ballads on the album, such as Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait, You Are My Life and Don't Walk Away are excellent. Sometimes, I just closed my eyes when I listen to Break of Dawn and be carried away. What a sesual R&B song it is! The vocals on You Are My Life and Don't Walk Away are so heartfelt. That's what set Michael Jackson apart, I guess. He's able to convey emotion like no other.

The Lost Children is one of my favorite songs. I enjoy its simpicity and lullaby-like melody. It's the sincerety that really attracts me to this song.

Invincible is like a good bottle of wine to me. It keeps getting better and better with age. It may not have that strong initial punch Dangerous and HIStory offer. It's more mellow; but still a well crafted album featuring gorgeous vocals.
 
I personally like the production on Invincible, not to mention the great quality of the vocals, with one exception, 2000 Watts. In my opinion APWNN shoul've took the place of 2000 Watts. Overall I really like the songs off Invincible and not to offend anyone but I have a lot more favorites on Invincible then I have on Off The Wall. For me Off The Wall is pretty much the first 5 songs: DSTYGE, RWY, WDAN, GOTF and OTW while on Invincible the only song I kinda skip are Heaven Can Wait, 2000 Watts, Cry and The Lost Children and also while having Whatever Happens in my top 5 favorites MJ songs ever!

Again, this is just my opinion. I do not wish to offend the people who are big OTW fans and all so please don't take offence to what I just said.
 
The funny thing is that MJ himself wrote some fantastic material around the Invincible era.

I'm sure it must have had something to do with the record label and not allowing to put a lot of his own songs on the album
 
MattyJam said:
It's always bothered me that there are only two songs solely written by MJ on the album (Speechless and The Lost Children). The best songs on all his previous albums were the ones he wrote and produced by himself. Michael is a brilliant and vastly underrated songwriter and the lack of this on Invincible always gave me the impression that he wasn't as inspired to write as he once was.
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Funny you should mention that, but I remember when I first got my copy I have to admit I was disappointed that there were only 2 songs solely written by him and most had multiple co-writers which was unusual for him.

lucilla said:
It's not rare to forget things like that.

I don't find the songs to be completely alien from MJ's lyrics. MJ himself can notice when something like that happens, if he wanted to fool us so much.
What I'm saying is yes, MJ had more co-writers that usual, but that's all. I don't think he tried to fool us by adding his name on the songs.
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I agree I don't think he tried to fool us on that front. I listened to a radio interview Mj had back in 2001 where he was talking about the song Invincible and how he pushed them to come up with creative ways to come up with different sounds for the music in that song. Although with so many co-writers his creative input was probably much less.

claudiadoina said:
Me, I think that Invincible is underrated just because everyone couldn't help but compare it with Michael's previous albums.If they wouldn't do that and they'd simply enjoy the album, and listen to Michael's vocals and rendition, they could see the maturity and soulfulness in this album.

.
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But Michael's albums ever since Thriller have always been compared to his previous work,nothing changed with Invincible. I agree though that the critics should have always treated every album discretely.


love is magical said:
I agree the amount of Michael's creative inputs are the least in Invincible, when compared to everything he did since Thriller. Is it because of the changes in his personal life? I don't know. Invincible is the first album he released after becoming a father though.


It's more mellow; but still a well crafted album featuring gorgeous vocals.
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I was just thinking maybe his personal life had something to do with the amount of time spent on Invincible. His priorities might have changed, after all the children were toddlers then and demanded a lot of time.
Invincible does feature gorgeous vocals especially in Butterflies, Speechless,
Break of Dawn, Don't Walk Away and Whatever Happens.
afgtnk said:
The funny thing is that MJ himself wrote some fantastic material around the Invincible era.

I'm sure it must have had something to do with the record label and not allowing to put a lot of his own songs on the album
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I heard there were many gems left out, but which ones were written by Michael, do you know?
 
It was his last CD And No matter how the critics downed it because they hated him and falsely spreaded lies about him or how it wasn't getting enough promotion. That was one of the reasons why the SONY DEMONSTRATIONS took place( I was there at the New York one) It will be my fave 4ever. Now We need an CD Called Invincible 2 with all the completed songs that didn't get on the CD and some suprised songs that can relate to what was on Mike's mind at the time.I happen to have the CD with on the case "You Rock My World" as the hit song before they changed it to Butterflies.
 
I think Invincible just sounds a bit... desperate.

Invincible doesn't know what it wants to be... On one hand you've got songs like Heartbreaker and 2000 Watts which are trying to sound all cutting edge and modern but lack a decent melody, and then you have retro tracks like Don't Walk Away and Butterflies which sounds like an attempt to go back to his roots. Cry sounds like a shameless re-make of Man In The Mirror, even down to the final line of the song ("change the world") which is obviously trying to re-create the ending of MITM. I mean c'mon Mike, did you not think we'd notice??

I think Michael was being pulled in different directions by different producers and probably his record company as well. Instead of just going into the studio and creating whatever came to him I think Invincible seemed like a calculated attempt to reinvent himself in the new millennium.
 
These are my favorite parts of Heartbreaker and Invincible

Heartbreaker:
I never thought that I would stop dreamin' about you
Stop being without you
But everyone told me so, to stop caring about you
And start being without you
But I'll find a way to go and start doin' without you
And stop talkin' about you
And what will she say?
She will say I was the man that got away

Invincible:
Now some way I’ll have to prove all that I said I would do
Giving you everything, fulfilling your fantasy
Then maybe you’ll change your mind and finally give in time
Then I’ll be showing you what other men are supposed to do for you my baby


Those parts are awesome!
 
analogue;3312393 said:
These are my favorite parts of Heartbreaker and Invincible

Heartbreaker:
I never thought that I would stop dreamin' about you
Stop being without you
But everyone told me so, to stop caring about you
And start being without you
But I'll find a way to go and start doin' without you
And stop talkin' about you
And what will she say?
She will say I was the man that got away

Invincible:
Now some way I’ll have to prove all that I said I would do
Giving you everything, fulfilling your fantasy
Then maybe you’ll change your mind and finally give in time
Then I’ll be showing you what other men are supposed to do for you my baby


Those parts are awesome!
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The middle-eight to Heartbreaker is just brilliant and one of the best moments on the album. It's just a shame the rest of the song doesn't match up to that part.
 
MattyJam said:
The middle-eight to Heartbreaker is just brilliant and one of the best moments on the album. It's just a shame the rest of the song doesn't match up to that part.
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It sure is and i have a strong feeling that MJ came up with/had alot to do with that part. It just screams classic Michael Jackson in my opinion

Whenever i listen to Heartbreaker i always rewind that part over and over again
 
analogue said:
It sure is and i have a strong feeling that MJ came up with/had alot to do with that part. It just screams classic Michael Jackson in my opinion

Whenever i listen to Heartbreaker i always rewind that part over and over again
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I've always suspected the same thing. He just sounds so passionate on that bit, his vocal delivery is so strong and the background vocals are heavenly. Michael definately wrote that part of the song.
 
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