MJ Estate Sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme Countersues / Tohme's Complaint [Merged]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Personally, I trust absolutely NO ONE who was "with" Michael in the years since the trial. Well, and before, too, in some instances. The trend of thieves and sharks in Michael's life is OBVIOUS.

I read somewhere -- I think an interview with Tohme, soon after Michael passed -- that said HIS attorney looked over the contracts. So in that sense, Michael had no one independent to vet the contractual "agreements" with Tohme.

I think it's possible/likely that the attorneys for the Estate will never uncover who the "DOES" are. The document posted here said they "didn't know." But, this civil suit is primarily about Tohme.

I find that document absolutely chilling, as to the degree of control Tohme had over Michael's finances, and his LIFE. With Tohme doing all the hiring and firing, apparently Michael was unable (or felt that he was?) to hire an independent attorney, or probably even household staff. (recalling Tohme's statement, "I built a fence around Michael.") There have been doubts expressed over the authenticity of the "Gatlin tape" where Michael said he was afraid of Tohme, and had lost control of his own money. Given the content of this lawsuit, it now seems to me that the phone call Michael made was authentic. Because it FITS with what the lawsuit asserts.

The lawsuit is about MONEY, but also about priceless personal property. The Estate has been trying, unsuccessfully, to get the return of the Julian's auction stuff, that Tohme has housed in a warehouse. They also never have had any financial accounting, at all, as to what Tohme did wiith MICHAEL'S money! I'm still wondering if this crosses the line into criminality, i.e. fraud?

I BELIEVE the statements in the lawsuit, that it was Tohme who gave away a priceless art-collection (and not Michael). I do imagine that the "gift" was with the unwritten agreement of kick-backs to Tohme of any sales from this "gift." Tohme probably didn't want to risk giving it to HIMSELF, and then having to prove that Michael did so?

So now, it is not Michael who is being robbed. Hopefully, he's at some sort of peace? It's the CHILDREN who are being robbed by Tohme, not only of money, but of the precious art made by their talented father's own hand! There is NO WAY Michael would have given away that art collection.

To me, the actions of Tohme cross the line into criminality, and I'm hoping (but not expecting) that criminal charges will be filed, and at the very least, his passport confiscated so he can't flee the country.

The "karmic wheel" turns slowly, but it DOES turn.
 
I'm confused about what he said in his interview after Michael's death!
"During his time with the superstar, Tohme said, he was paid nothing but was able to negotiate lucrative business deals that would secure the future of Jackson’s children. "

Why would he go on record saying that he wasn't paid, but in real he was helping himself with many deals + monthly salary 35 thousand?

I'm looking forward seeing heads start rolling:angry:
 
Bubs;3600806 said:
I'm confused about what he said in his interview after Michael's death!
"During his time with the superstar, Tohme said, he was paid nothing but was able to negotiate lucrative business deals that would secure the future of Jackson’s children. "

Why would he go on record saying that he wasn't paid, but in real he was helping himself with many deals + monthly salary 35 thousand?

I'm looking forward seeing heads start rolling:angry:

Because he LIED, just like he lied about being "Ambassador-at-Large" for the country of Senegal, when the Senegalese government had never heard of him. I think he's probably a career-criminal/con-artist. IMHO.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Because he LIED, just like he lied about being "Ambassador-at-Large" for the country of Senegal, when the Senegalese government had never heard of him. I think he's probably a career-criminal/con-artist. IMHO.

I wonder why did he think at the time that he dealings wouldn't see the daylight?

Speculation alert! Maybe he thought that Michael's family was going to be executors of his estate and as Jermaine brought
him in, he thought his dealings would stay in the dark, or family wouldn't have bothered checking his side businesses?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme

Managers are generally paid on the deals / the money they bring in. So basically as Tohme has arranged for Neverland and TII deal he claims he's entitled money from them. It's no different than John Landis / Ola Ray suing over their share from Thriller and Demann suing for his money from the time he was a manager.

Are John Landis and Olay ray supposed to claim money from thriller indefinately? surely there has to be an expiry period for that. Same goes for Demann.

This is it was canned the moment MJ died. and so a new deal was negotiated by John Branca with Sony. Tohme can't then come back and say he's owed money. If the estate can prove that the Nevy deal was in bad faith, then I'm sure they can have those agreements annuled by the court.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme

Are John Landis and Olay ray supposed to claim money from thriller indefinately? surely there has to be an expiry period for that. Same goes for Demann.

no there's no expiry period. As long as such stuff bring in money , they are entitled to their share.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Are there also the court-documents from Tohme available? How are his arguments.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

These complaints are filed in probate court so they aren't available to purchase online. You can only get hard copies from the court clerk in LA, so unless the media posts them we won't see them.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

or if somone living in LA could be so kind to go the court and ask for a copy...
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

It's about time !!! I'm glad :clapping:
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Dileo was better then Tohme, sure. But, he signed MJs name to a contract that would have MJ perform with The rest of the Jacksons when he had no right too. So MJ was goona find himself in ish no matter who was representing him it seems! So I trust no one who was around him either, except his children!
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Dileo was better then Tohme, sure. But, he signed MJs name to a contract that would have MJ perform with The rest of the Jacksons when he had no right too. So MJ was goona find himself in ish no matter who was representing him it seems! So I trust no one who was around him either, except his children!

No, he did not. If he did, AGE would win his case or at least get a hearing. What Frank sign was a merely a contract between Frank and AGE. Frank was going to negotiate such a contract and rightly did not want to work for nothing. The judge saw it this way and the case was closed.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

^My point was that MJ was doing This is it. While negotiations were goin on between Frank and AGE when This is it should have been the focus, that's why ish hit the fan.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

^My point was that MJ was doing This is it. While negotiations were goin on between Frank and AGE when This is it should have been the focus, that's why ish hit the fan.

negotiations were not going on. they approached Joe Jackson who sent them to Dileo to talk to Michael. Dileo asked for his expenses before he talks to Michael. They didn't pay anything to Dileo. The End. Later they sued AEG , Michael , Dileo but they had no case , Dileo didn't bind Michael to any agreement and by not paying Dileo's expenses AllGood had invalidated the agreement.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

My point was that this is it should have been the focus and not seeing what else MJ can do as if this is it was't enough. Frank wanting to be paid indicates that he was interested in seeing what they can offer, obviously. So what I am trying to say is MJ already had enough on his plate.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Im glad the estate are finally suing tohme
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

The AGE fiasco was extremely strange. A concert that would have happened somehow in the MIDDLE of the TII shows? Involving, ta dah! the brothers? Again. Given what I read at the time, and what AGE alleged, Frank was thought to be Michael's manager, when he was not, at that time. It appears that his role was to "deliver" Michael to AGE for the concert. I highly doubt that was anywhere on Michael's mind. It was just . . . . .strange. And digressive for Michael, obviously.

But, in terms of Tohme, clearly the Estate wants so defuse his (groundless) lawsuit with a preemptive strike. In the process of that "strike," the documents reveal that Tohme was taking terrible advantage of Michael. It appears to have been an ongoing robbery. The Estate doesn't only seek to derail Tohme's lawsuit, but also wants the return of any money Tohme took under false pretenses; they want Michael's property back, and they want a legitimate ACCOUNTING of just what Tohme did with Michael's money. Apparently they have not seen any of Tohme's records, at all.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

The AGE fiasco was extremely strange. A concert that would have happened somehow in the MIDDLE of the TII shows? Involving, ta dah! the brothers? Again. Given what I read at the time, and what AGE alleged, Frank was thought to be Michael's manager, when he was not, at that time. It appears that his role was to "deliver" Michael to AGE for the concert. I highly doubt that was anywhere on Michael's mind. It was just . . . . .strange. And digressive for Michael, obviously.

It's not that strange IMO. Joe Jackson meets with Allgood and wants to do a Jacksons concert. Joe Jackson tells them Frank Dileo is Michael's manager - he's not at that time. Allgood goes to Dileo and signs an agreement with Dileo - not Michael- in which they promise to pay Dileo $150,000 to be the middle man between them and Michael. Allgood never pays , Dileo never talks to Michael. Allgood files a bogus lawsuit. It was meritless that it was dismissed.

note: Allgood also gave Katherine money to talk to Michael.

But, in terms of Tohme, clearly the Estate wants so defuse his (groundless) lawsuit with a preemptive strike. In the process of that "strike," the documents reveal that Tohme was taking terrible advantage of Michael. It appears to have been an ongoing robbery. The Estate doesn't only seek to derail Tohme's lawsuit, but also wants the return of any money Tohme took under false pretenses; they want Michael's property back, and they want a legitimate ACCOUNTING of just what Tohme did with Michael's money. Apparently they have not seen any of Tohme's records, at all.

There's a lot at risk here. Tohme is asking for 15% of Michael's earning from 2008 to date.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

It's not that strange IMO. Joe Jackson meets with Allgood and wants to do a Jacksons concert. Joe Jackson tells them Frank Dileo is Michael's manager - he's not at that time. Allgood goes to Dileo and signs an agreement with Dileo - not Michael- in which they promise to pay Dileo $150,000 to be the middle man between them and Michael. Allgood never pays , Dileo never talks to Michael. Allgood files a bogus lawsuit. It was meritless that it was dismissed.

note: Allgood also gave Katherine money to talk to Michael.

Whatever all this was, it sure wasn't something Michael NEEDED to be going on at that time. And, wouldn't have All Good have ASKED if DiLeo was Michael's manager? Well, oops?

There's a lot at risk here. Tohme is asking for 15% of Michael's earning from 2008 to date.

A LOT at risk. I highly doubt any court would take Tohme's claims all that seriously, though. Especially after the documents filed by the estate, that look pretty devastating to Tohme.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

^I'm suddenly worried..what is the Estate doesn't win? Can that happen? The injustice of this whole thing, and his sheer gall at trying to make a buck from the Estate, when he has contributed nothing to Michael in life or death disgusts me.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Allgood deal was signed before TII deal - in November 2008. So I really do not understand this Michael didn't need it at that time argument. I don't think neither Joe Jackson, Allgood or Dileo knew Michael was in talks with AEG for a concert tour. So I don't think anyone was planning on multiple things or problems for that time. It's just that AEG deal became public knowledge and Allgood realized that they didn't stand a chance to get Michael , they started a fuss.

A LOT at risk. I highly doubt any court would take Tohme's claims all that seriously, though. Especially after the documents filed by the estate, that look pretty devastating to Tohme.

We haven't seen Tohme's claims though. I wish we did.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

I am worried too.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme

It's about TIME. So, good. This will be civil litigation. I wonder if criminal charges are possible, as well?

YES. I remember we were all discussing Thome's connection to the Neverland and auctioning deals, for example, and now his actions/thefts are finally being addressed by the suit. This move by the estate will make many fans happy indeed. I will not be surprised if he has some funds stolen from Michael in an off-shore account.



Michael can do a happy dance now.
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme

YES. I remember we were all discussing Thome's connection to the Neverland and auctioning deals, for example, and now his actions/thefts are finally being addressed by the suit. This move by the estate will make many fans happy indeed. I will not be surprised if he has some funds stolen from Michael in an off-shore account.

The Estate's claims (which I happen to BELIEVE) are so extreme, it seems to cross the line into criminality. Especially the apparent failure to disclose that he had an interest in Colony Capital, and then took a 2.4 million "finder's fee." If that were legitimate practice, than anyone selling his/her own real-estate could also collect a finder's fee. (gee, why didn't I think of that kind of double-dipping when I sold my house? NOT.)

I also think the "gift" of the paintings may be criminal. The Estate claims that Tohme did that, not Michael. The art collection is of immense value. The thing to look for there is if any money changed hands from the "giftee" to Tohme, i.e kick-backs as a way to launder Tohme's potential profit from any sales of the art-work. There is also the issue of not one, but TWO POA's, with Michael having no independent representation at all. Fraud may be an issue here. It will be fascinating to watch all this unfold, and I hope that the executors go after Tohme with both barrels blazing.

(edit) This is the AGE document for their lawsuit:

http://www.slideshare.net/MichaelfanSK/age-official-jackson-lawsuit-1563462

Here has been my issue with the AGE incident, and then I'll leave it (too digressive).

Frank met with All Good on November 20, 2008. #24, from the lawsuit, states (a quote), "At the meeting, DiLeo confirmed and represented that he was in fact Jackson's manager. . . ."

That leaves only two possibilities that I've been able to see. AGE was lying in their document, and Frank did NOT state that he was Michael's manager. Or, Frank misrepresented himself and said he was Michael's manager, when he was not. (Thome was manager, beginning in January, 2008.) Was Frank in communication with Michael at that time? Really don't know. But even if he was, he was not his manager. So that's it. Whatever the case, the subsequent lawsuit by AGE sought to derail the AEG concerts, and was another in a long list of lawsuits that plagued Michael VERY much in his later years.
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Hmmm, didn't Strong say that he had a letter from Thome giving him rights to the art? Thome never presented the letter, though.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

Hmmm, didn't Strong say that he had a letter from Thome giving him rights to the art? Thome never presented the letter, though.

Did he? Can you find it/a source, where Strong said that? If that's the case, then it's obvious why Tohme GAVE AWAY Michael's art collection, and there you have it! Wow, that's bad.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

^Something sure's not right with that, I call that letter BS. Why hasn't Michael signed the letter? Both BLS and Tohme are frauds of the highest order. Thie is quite similar to Tohme's attempt to auction off Michael's Neverland items, which ulitmately resulted in him getting the boot. I believe Michael had no idea about this deal with BLS, or he would've reacted in a similar manner. All this came out only after his death. Can't believe he tolerated Tohme for almost an year...

Ivy do you think this letter will be considered sufficient evidence by the courts that Michael indeed gifted his art to BLS?
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

^Something sure's not right with that, I call that letter BS. Why hasn't Michael signed the letter? Both BLS and Tohme are frauds of the highest order.

Ivy do you think this letter will be considered sufficient evidence by the courts that Michael indeed gifted his art to BLS?

There is no way to know if Michael knew anything about the "gift," or about this letter. Tohme could write whatever he wanted to whoever, but it doesn't make it TRUE. If Michael REALLY made this "gift," I would think that he would have wanted to communicate directly with Strong about such a valuable "gesture," and there is no evidence that he did.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Summary @pg 5

I wonder what loyalty Tohme showed that Michael should be so grateful for.
 
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